MIG welding auto body sheet metal with flux core instead of gas?

[mike758]

So I'm restoring my truck, and while I have a decent amount to spend, I'm keeping my budget as small as possible while doing it right. So while I haven't started, I'm preparing and have most the patch panels I think I need all ready to go. The dilemma now is the welder. Originally I was looking to pay someone to do it, but I just can't find anyone willing to do it no matter the pay. I've tried making friends with other car people, but I don't know of this just an area specific thing, but these guys either don't talk to me or treat me like I'm like super stupid (they started somewhere too, didn't they?). Anyway, I'll probably find some stuff last minute and would need a quick replacement.

So I'm planning to buy Lincoln Electrics smallest MIG welder for $333. I've also considered shielding gas since everyone recommends it over flux core, but the issue is cost and hassle. From what it looks like, it's $200 for a tank and somewhere around $50 to fill it. If I rented a tank, the yearly rate would be at least $75 plus the fill cost. So just to make welds, the setup including gas, wire, and helmet would be over $600.

So would flux core work? Obviously I would buy scrap metal and practice first no matter. I have a friend who lives far away that says he uses it. I'm thinking that since this is a small welder, it probably has low power settings.

 

[rustyshakelford]

I personally have a Lincoln 210mp and love it. Would probably be overkill for your needs but it's something that can grow with you. It also has tons of adjustment so you won't get a frustrated. It's considerably more than you were looking to spend but to me it's worth it. I also have an efi Miller bobcat and these days it's only job is backup generator or power supply for the 210.

Sheet metal can be a slow process since it's so thin. I would want mig mix gas if it was me

Brett

 

[erty67]

I'm no expert but from what I have learned, you will struggle with flux core on sheet metal. Also, for what you will spend on that 88amp welder, you can probably find a decent 125-140A welder that will already be set up for gas on craigslist.

 

[dnschmidt]

Short answer: DON'T DO IT.

 

[1950mercury]

Don't use flux core on body panels. Another option would be oxy acetylene weld. A lot easier to metal finish.

Restoring cars/trucks are not cheap if you're sweating over a couple hundred dollars difference in a welder, don't restore a car/truck biy one done its cheaper

 

[Rlfd213]

I am working a Vw bug and started with a flux core welder and it was horrible. Lots of burn through and splatter and the welds just look like ****. I found a 1 year old Lincoln 210mp and with gas and .024 wire it's coming along great. A lot less warping, a lot less grinding and the welds look really good.

 

[Fixin'Stuff]

Flux core wire digs much too hard to get a good weld on thin material. Thin non-flux welding wire and shielding gas will work far better.

 

[crewchief888]

as everyone has already mentioned, you're best option is to "bite the bullet" and get a mig thats already set up to run gas.

i very rarely switch to solid core wire/gas for any of my welding.
while it's possible to run flux core on sheet metal, it's really an exercise in frustration.....

 

[mike758]

The one I'm looking at comes with everything needed to run gas, so it's technically "set up". Issue is the tank. I guess renting would be my best option for the short run, then I would make a decision on whether I actually use it enough to buy a tank, or if I should just sell the welder, which I can probably sell for 2/3 of what I paid for it based on Craigslist prices. This truck is my only project for at least the next five years, as I'm still a college student living at home. Before anyone judges my spending on the truck, I do save more than I spend and really don't have a life lol so it's all I do.

I've been recently looking around on Craigslist, and haven't been happy. There are only a few welder and tank set ups for sale, and they're about the same price I can get a new one for. Something that cautions me as well is that there's a lot of "broken down" or nameless brands, and I just don't know if I can trust it

 

[JohnnyK8]

I was in the same spot as you a last year restoring an old Bronco and doing some fabrication.

Get a medium size can of shielding gas.it will be much easier and more successful.

You have a good welder in mind with that Lincoln. A Hobart 135 would be good too. Utilize it with the right supplies it's money very well spent.

Body panel with flux will be a bi&$#.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[crewchief888]

The one I'm looking at comes with everything needed to run gas, so it's technically "set up". Issue is the tank. I guess renting would be my best option for the short run, then I would make a decision on whether I actually use it enough to buy a tank, or if I should just sell the welder, which I can probably sell for 2/3 of what I paid for it based on Craigslist prices. This truck is my only project for at least the next five years, as I'm still a college student living at home. Before anyone judges my spending on the truck, I do save more than I spend and really don't have a life lol so it's all I do.

I've been recently looking around on Craigslist, and haven't been happy. There are only a few welder and tank set ups for sale, and they're about the same price I can get a new one for. Something that cautions me as well is that there's a lot of "broken down" or nameless brands, and I just don't know if I can trust it

same here on CL for welders (and nearly anything else) either worn out, for nearly new prices, or NIB HF for new (or higher) prices.

like i said, i dont switch to solid wire/gas that often, and for me, a 2lb spool of 0.023 wire has about the same life as the small bottle of mix gas.

i bought a lincoln promig 140 to replace the old daytona 135 (cebora) mig that i'd had for years.
the cebora had some problems, and it seemed there were NEVER any parts in stock for it.
it met a very untimely, sudden death when i threw it (literally) out of the garage one night. i was spending more time trying to get it to feed wire than i was welding.

ive had zero problems with the lincoln over the past 7 or so years.

 

[Wamsutta]

So would flux core work?

It's tempting because you don't have to buy gas, but flux core runs so much hotter that it's impractical for sheet metal.

 

[crewchief888]

It's tempting because you don't have to buy gas, but flux core runs so much hotter that it's impractical for sheet metal.

yea ,

you'll end up blowing holes in everything.

i do it all the time, but i end up backing up all the welds with more filler strips, and using copper to dissipate heat.

 

[rsanter]

Yes you can do it with flux core. It will help greatly to back the seam with copper. This will help pull excess heat away and help avoid the burs through.

However,MIG is still a crappy weld for doing quality sheet metal welding.

023 wire and shield gas will turn out much better. Still use the trick of the copper backing.
Also tack the seam every inch then go back and weld in every other inch.
Allow to cool and then weld in the remaining areas

Bob

 

[NoGarageAtHome]

I'm assuming your relatively young and you enjoying working on cars/ getting your hands dirty. You really need to INVEST in a quality welder. A Crappy welder is not worth the stress and time and it will take the fun out of the hobby. A good welder will last a long time and you'll find yourself looking to weld/reinforce anything you can.
I'm also restoring a car and was using a back up welder a friend had laying around. It was no fun. I finally got the Lincoln mp210 because it's a 120/220v mig, stick, tig and you can also weld aluminum with a spool gun. I really didn't want to spend that kind of money but I looked at it as in investment not buying individual machines later.

Short answer.. Get a quality machine with a small bottle and enjoy doing the job right.

 

[Showkey]

Agree ^^^^^^^^^^^

On budget ........but still get gas, good warranty, free shipping, decent quality, parts and service ........$279

http://www.eastwood.com/mig-welder-...rMuMXQF95652lR5PUDRGzu3rJIJl6HP_DAaAphO8P8HAQ

For $499 get more power, 175 amp, spool gun ..........

 

[Jacobson]

Buy a used welder and then sell it when you're done. Cost will be $0.
See here for details: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=328609

 

[Jacobson]

I am very interested to hear how you can not find anyone in PA to do some welding.
Aren't there auto body shops? I have a feeling they thought you might be a PITA customer?

 

[countryroad82]

I keep a roll of flux core handy for when I run out of gas on Friday evening and the welding shops are closed for the weekend, and I have a job that HAS to be done Monday. While it absolutely ***** it can be done but there are many many drawbacks to it. One being blowing through constantly. Another is you spend double the amount of time grinding. Come to think of it, I really just need to invest in another tank but sheesh I hate to!!! Like others have said buy a tank and have it filled.

 

[KM223]

Never run out of gas!

 

[zendriver]

So I'm restoring my truck, and while I have a decent amount to spend, I'm keeping my budget as small as possible while doing it right. So while I haven't started, I'm preparing and have most the patch panels I think I need all ready to go. The dilemma now is the welder. Originally I was looking to pay someone to do it, but I just can't find anyone willing to do it no matter the pay. I've tried making friends with other car people, but I don't know of this just an area specific thing, but these guys either don't talk to me or treat me like I'm like super stupid (they started somewhere too, didn't they?). Anyway, I'll probably find some stuff last minute and would need a quick replacement.

So I'm planning to buy Lincoln Electrics smallest MIG welder for $333. I've also considered shielding gas since everyone recommends it over flux core, but the issue is cost and hassle. From what it looks like, it's $200 for a tank and somewhere around $50 to fill it. If I rented a tank, the yearly rate would be at least $75 plus the fill cost. So just to make welds, the setup including gas, wire, and helmet would be over $600.

So would flux core work? Obviously I would buy scrap metal and practice first no matter. I have a friend who lives far away that says he uses it. I'm thinking that since this is a small welder, it probably has low power settings.

MIG or flux, the only way to ever get good at welding, is by welding.

Since your Lincoln will do both, get some flux wire and some scrap sheet metal.

 

[1950mercury]

I am very interested to hear how you can not find anyone in PA to do some welding.
Aren't there auto body shops? I have a feeling they thought you might be a PITA customer?

Yup.

 

[zendriver]

I am very interested to hear how you can not find anyone in PA to do some welding.
Aren't there auto body shops? I have a feeling they thought you might be a PITA customer?

Around here, body shop's parking lots, are full of vehicles, waiting for repair.

Perhaps they are more interested in a $7,000 parts swap, than a $200 chop job.

 

[mike758]

I am very interested to hear how you can not find anyone in PA to do some welding.
Aren't there auto body shops? I have a feeling they thought you might be a PITA customer?

I never went to body shops, but around here they are very high end and would most likely charge really high prices. The people I reached out to were hobbyists. I know two guys who do body work, but they don't weld, they just use new stuff. There's someone I know who goes to school for welding, but he would have to bring the panels to school, which would be ok for some, but he can't bring a whole cab or bed. The more serious hobbyists seem to have no time to deal with me, so I don't even bother them

 

[Wanna Ride]

I never went to body shops, but around here they are very high end and would most likely charge really high prices. The people I reached out to were hobbyists. I know two guys who do body work, but they don't weld, they just use new stuff. There's someone I know who goes to school for welding, but he would have to bring the panels to school, which would be ok for some, but he can't bring a whole cab or bed. The more serious hobbyists seem to have no time to deal with me, so I don't even bother them

Time to learn to do it yourself then. Couple tips since you don't know too much about it at this point:
- buy a good, name-brand welder, and don't buy the cheapest, low-end unit either. Buy one that has room to grow, as your skills improve. Nothing worse than having to buy again, a few months into it.
- unless you have someone local that you can trust to help guide you, don't buy used. You could easily be paying too much, or buying something that someone else had issues with because they misused it.
- don't use flux-core on body panels. Buy the tank, and use gas. You're setting yourself up for failure if you don't follow these tips.

Nothing worse than learning a new hobby or trade, and going about it the wrong way. Too many guys end up frustrated and having a bad experience in those conditions, and then they never stay interested in that hobby or trade. Lots of people will tell you what you want to hear when you have cash to give them.

 

[Zeke]

Short answer: DON'T DO IT.

X2. Look into using silicone bronze wire and Argon or Ar/He

 

[94EG8]

Flux core does not work well for welding sheet metal. It's too hot, too much grinding and you'll burn through. Spend the extra and buy gas, it'll make your life a lot easier.

On the whole trying to find someone to weld in panels subject:

I work for a decent sized collision center. If someone came to my shop looking for panels welded in we'd turn them away unless we were absolutely starving for work. No one wants to pay what it costs us to do the work and turn a profit. Beyond that it's impossible to guarantee the work wont rust in the future but somehow that's what ends up happening, they come back and you fix it just to keep the customer happy. If you can find someone willing to do the work and they end up doing a nice job treat them very well, it's very, very hard to find someone who's willing to do this kind of work and do it well.

 

[pi_guy]

X2. Look into using silicone bronze wire and Argon or Ar/He

I was going to suggest that but the majority of the posters are looking for the cheaper way out. Ag/He and Si bronze wire are much more expensive than flux core. If the welder is experienced he can make up for some deficiencies but if you on the beginning part of learning curve it is harder.
Also having the right grinding tools makes all the diff too. But using Si Bronze it is easier to grind and much less distortion of parts
I know it works in my multimatic 200 as I can get the right size collets and feeding parts, not sure about hf or other ones.

 

[zendriver]

I never went to body shops, but around here they are very high end and would most likely charge really high prices. The people I reached out to were hobbyists. I know two guys who do body work, but they don't weld, they just use new stuff. There's someone I know who goes to school for welding, but he would have to bring the panels to school, which would be ok for some, but he can't bring a whole cab or bed. The more serious hobbyists seem to have no time to deal with me, so I don't even bother them

Not done it in 25 years, but I imagine that body restoration, is like most everything we do nowadays, usually discussed right here.

I get more satisfaction, save more money and generally get things done quicker and better, by figuring out how to do them myself.

Experiencing it right now, with a fussy vintage outboard motor.

 

[blazsawgras]

I restored old truck installed many body panels with a 90 amp flux core welder. I turned heat down, wire speed down. we had lots of problem with it trying to burn through, had to be really careful. im looking to get me a Lincoln mig welder thinking of getting a Lincoln 180.

 

[turbowoodworker]

Never run out of gas!

I hate to be a **** but it makes me shudder when I see one or five bottles not secured to the wall.

 

[Zeke]

I hate to be a **** but it makes me shudder when I see one or five bottles not secured to the wall.

Well, to his credit, 3 of them have the caps on them. But I have to agree about the O2 bottle. Man that joker can take off to the moon if tipped over and the valve snapped off.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I hate to be a **** but it makes me shudder when I see one or five bottles not secured to the wall.

Second that !

 

[theoldwizard1]

Never buy a welder that can NOT be converted to using shield gas. Someday you will.

 

[Jay H 237]

I wound up biting the bullet and buying a Millermatic 135 (now the 140) back in 2004 when I was looking for a MIG. Got the whole setup from an Airgas dealer with cart, 75/25 tank own outright, gloves and auto darkening helmet for just over $650. Basically a package deal.

Miller, Hobart, Lincoln and the only other I'd consider is a Century. The Eastwoods one I believe is made by Miller, just like Hobart is. Problem with some of the oddball ones is parts.

I bought the tank than renting as I may not use the welder for months now that the work on my 68 Mustang has slowed from bodywork. I can easily go 2 years with a single tank, and I bought the biggest they'd allow me. Renting you're always paying the fee. Technically owning you don't keep the same tank, it just gets exchanged when you need a refill.

 

[mike758]

I'm pretty dead set on the Lincoln, I've heard good reviews, it's a decent set up, and well priced. Right now I'm debating on whether I want the Lincoln Handy or the 140 HD. They both have the same exact set up, come set up for gas with everything minus tank, and are both 115V. Only difference is the Handy is 35-88AMP for $333 and the 140 is 35-140AMP for $524. I feel like the 88AMP one will be adequate to what I need, but the 140 would probably be better suited for fixing bigger things as necessary.

I did look at the 240V one, and while I do have a generator and a few 240 outlets, 115 would just be so much easier for me. Originally I was going to buy a Harbor Frieght welder, but if there's one thing not to buy at Harbor Frieght I would say it would have to be a welder

 

[Zeke]

I'm pretty dead set on the Lincoln, I've heard good reviews, it's a decent set up, and well priced. Right now I'm debating on whether I want the Lincoln Handy or the 140 HD. They both have the same exact set up, come set up for gas with everything minus tank, and are both 115V. Only difference is the Handy is 35-88AMP for $333 and the 140 is 35-140AMP for $524. I feel like the 88AMP one will be adequate to what I need, but the 140 would probably be better suited for fixing bigger things as necessary.

I did look at the 240V one, and while I do have a generator and a few 240 outlets, 115 would just be so much easier for me. Originally I was going to buy a Harbor Frieght welder, but if there's one thing not to buy at Harbor Frieght I would say it would have to be a welder

Look for continuous and not tapped voltage control. Helps big time when you are fine tuning your adjustments on the thin stuff. There are ways around only having 4-5 voltage settings, but it's just another thing to learn.