Outlawmws
Well-known member
Meat, that was a Wilton IIR.
The VISES of Garage Journal
- Thread starter mjozefow
- Start date
drivesitfar
Well-known member
OUTLAW & MEATSIS & ALL: VA filled the hollow towers with lead of his 8 inch Columbian that he uses on his workbench that isn't part of the chain gang. i think he said it weighed about 180 pounds and was an 8 inch wide jaw and most of his Reed, Athol, Rock Island and such weigh about 100 pounds more for their 8 inch versions.
Wilton also has hollow jaws so that's maybe why those two companies merged.
I think OLDIE has a diagram of the Wilton's insides showing their hollow jaws, but i wonder if their big 6 & 8 inchers with the jaws attached from the rear are solid?
Wilton also has hollow jaws so that's maybe why those two companies merged.
I think OLDIE has a diagram of the Wilton's insides showing their hollow jaws, but i wonder if their big 6 & 8 inchers with the jaws attached from the rear are solid?
drivesitfar
Well-known member
CB: i have a couple BIG UNS on dollies under my work bench, but most sit on shelves. i'm having issues getting the 125 plus pounders to shelves over my head in one piece now that wasn't an issue a few years ago so maybe i'll be buying more dollies or selling off a few more.
nice looking columbian and even if it does have hollow jaws it's a monster at 180 pounds and would look awesome on any bench or stand you build for it.
nice looking columbian and even if it does have hollow jaws it's a monster at 180 pounds and would look awesome on any bench or stand you build for it.
fullthrottle24
Well-known member
While everyone complains that Columbian vises have hollow jaws and they just aren't heavy enough this is a key factor to them being advertised as "sledge tested." At one time they were the largest vise manufacturer in the world. IMHO they do stand up to years of abuse and my number 2 vise manufacturer behind Reed as a great workhorse vise.
honza.vosalik
Well-known member
Guys, who made the Craftsman 5196? Reed, Columbian?
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Honza: We've never solved that mystery so ill say rock island did until we do.
vintage nut
Well-known member
Drives, if you ever want to get rid of another big vise, I'm sure my Morgan could use a friend.... Lol
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scooternut
Well-known member
CRAPTAIN
A few of us have posted those no name swivel vises that ultimately we determined Prentiss. The ultimate determination for yours will be markings on the main nut. PVCO or similar will be my guess.
I posted up and use often a very similar one, though I think 4 1/2, mine is marked in two places; the main nut is PVCO or similar ( i honestly dont remember) and the very rear of the static jaw behind the pivot says "PRENTISS NY"
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A few of us have posted those no name swivel vises that ultimately we determined Prentiss. The ultimate determination for yours will be markings on the main nut. PVCO or similar will be my guess.
I posted up and use often a very similar one, though I think 4 1/2, mine is marked in two places; the main nut is PVCO or similar ( i honestly dont remember) and the very rear of the static jaw behind the pivot says "PRENTISS NY"
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Another spur of the moment buy. 4" for $25. Had it in the car less than an hour from posting. I don't know how it was still there as there was an estate sale just 3 weeks ago. I bought it from the new house buyer. The jaw pin is missing so the previous user added a spot of weld to secure the swivel jaw. The swivel base lock works well. No name or ID anywhere. Now I need to quit working so that I have time to clean up a few of my vises.
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Looks like a Prentiss to me. The guy behind my house has a machine shop and he has the exact same vise. The name is located behind the swivel jaw behind the pin right on top. Normally they are all worn off like yours is. Even the guy behind me with the machine shop,the name on his vise is ALMOST worn off too but you can still read the raised letters of Prentiss.
joe.striper
Well-known member
Full, while everything you say is 100% accurate, collectors and buyers are not fans of Columbians. I sell a lot of vises, and I just cannot sell Columbians, so I no longer buy them. I must have 6 or 7 here, all beautiful, but everytime I run a tag sale I sell everything but those, and believe me I try to sell them cheap.
As someone who has repaired a lot of these Columbians let me say that they are underbuilt. Recently I had to replace the spindle on a 6" Columbian because it had snapped. It was only 3/4" thick. I retrofitted a 1" Prentiss Bulldog spindle and nut and I know that will never break.
The side castings are thin and as stated earlier the jaw towers are hollow. See the repair on the jaw towers of CBACRES 8"er, that is also not uncommon.
Now having said that, one of my favorite sayings when debating people's favorite anything is " and that's why God made blondes, brunettes and redheads". I don't believe people are denigrating Columbians, they are simply discussing why they don't prefer them.
I would love to have CB's 8" Columbian because I don't have an 8" vise and people like Meatsis won't sell me one cheap (*******!).
I have a contact who has an 8" Morgan and a perfect 8" Columbian on a gorgeous custom stand. Do I want them, you bet your **** I do, because they are both 8".Here is a 5" Columbian someone gave me. Been on my front porch for 2 weeks, gotta find a home for it. FREE for anyone here who will come and get it. I will NOT ship it. Maybe I can move this one!
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CwazyWabbit
Well-known member
I'll wander over and pick it up in a minute Joe, you're the house on the left aren't you?
cbacres
Well-known member
Full, while everything you say is 100% accurate, collectors and buyers are not fans of Columbians. I sell a lot of vises, and I just cannot sell Columbians, so I no longer buy them. I must have 6 or 7 here, all beautiful, but everytime I run a tag sale I sell everything but those, and believe me I try to sell them cheap.
As someone who has repaired a lot of these Columbians let me say that they are underbuilt. Recently I had to replace the spindle on a 6" Columbian because it had snapped. It was only 3/4" thick. I retrofitted a 1" Prentiss Bulldog spindle and nut and I know that will never break.
The side castings are thin and as stated earlier the jaw towers are hollow. See the repair on the jaw towers of CBACRES 8"er, that is also not uncommon.
Now having said that, one of my favorite sayings when debating people's favorite anything is " and that's why God made blondes, brunettes and redheads". I don't believe people are denigrating Columbians, they are simply discussing why they don't prefer them.
I would love to have CB's 8" Columbian because I don't have an 8" vise and people like Meatsis won't sell me one cheap (*******!).
Here is a 5" Columbian someone gave me. Been on my front porch for 2 weeks, gotta find a home for it. FREE for anyone here who will come and get it. I will NOT ship it. Maybe I can move this one!
Not trying add fuel one way or the other, I just seem to end up with the Columbians, I have not seeked them out, it's just the vises I happened upon. Like I mentioned earlier, I just recently noticed that the Parker and Prentise I have do seem heavier than a comparable Columbian. They are holding up fine for me, I can get into some pretty heavy work at times.
I have one that's survived my then teenage son before he learned how to coax things apart it was a bigger hammer, longer pipe , bigger pipe wrench on the 4-1/2" that was on the bench for years.
This 8" I was giving by a friend that had a scrap yard years ago. It actually started with a call that he had a welding table for me. Hook up,the trailer and on the way. He had the table up in the air ready to load, full horizontal, using his trac hoe with grapple. The grapple was clamped on this vice supporting the whole table, it was a 4'x8' 3/8 plate with lots of framing. The vise was mounted on the corner of table, thus had the entire table leveraged on it. Guess it passed that stress test.
I'm flush with C's now, I'll look out for other interesting ones as they come along.
And for the regret column, I regret not picking up the $50 Rock island a month ago, because I have a shelf full now, oh well.
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KMScott
Well-known member
I fixed up several and yes they are lighter but these found happy homes and I still hear from the new owner on the 205 who lives 50 miles from me and he uses it every day. There is a proper way to beat and bang on vises. My heavy working vise is a American Scale #524.
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IHmachinery
Well-known member
fullthrottle24
Well-known member
My best guess Rock Island. The jaws,rock island, the date stamp on top of slide, rock island, the knobs of spindle and lock down, Columbian. The oil port, Reed.
The main nut with adjustment pin, Reed
honza.vosalik
Well-known member
That Columbian looks sooo similar to my Craftsman 5196. Maybe the 5196 was made by Columbian?
va.grouseman
Well-known member
Cbacres, there ain't nothing wrong with Columbians, they just don't get the love that Reeds, Wiltons, Charlie Parkers, Prentiss's, etc., get.---Which actually makes for a better user in my opinion.---They are the Rodney Dangerfield of vises, to quote another member here.---They don't have or hold there value like other brands do.---A good analogy would be, I can kill as many grouse with a $500.00 Ithaca side-by-side as I can with a $12000.00 Parker, but I'm not going to drag a $12000.00 Parker through the briers because of devaluation.---My Ithaca has been worked to death.---Same goes with my Columbian.
I've reposted B100's Columbian Ads that describe the nodular casting that they used/use in their vises that allows them to cut back on material.---They guarantee it to be unbreakable, however I have seen some broken Columbians in this thread.---So I guess they just honored the guarantee and replaced the broken ones.
However they are tougher than a lot of people give them credit for.---That said, I did fill the voids in mine with 40 lbs. of lead so the towers are no longer hollow.---So I wouldn't collect Columbians for speculation purposes but for users or as gifts, you can't beat um.---Unless it's something like a Swivel Jaw Coachmakers.
By the way, a #608 is 160 lbs. without the swivel base, 180 lbs. with the swivel base, and 220 lbs. full of lead.
I might add, B100's Ads say the 608 weighs 170 lbs. but mine weighed 180 lbs.---I don't know why the discrepancy.
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Here's B100's Ad.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=444798&d=1432253341
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=444797&d=1432253341
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=444795&d=1432253341
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=444796&d=1432253341
I've reposted B100's Columbian Ads that describe the nodular casting that they used/use in their vises that allows them to cut back on material.---They guarantee it to be unbreakable, however I have seen some broken Columbians in this thread.---So I guess they just honored the guarantee and replaced the broken ones.
However they are tougher than a lot of people give them credit for.---That said, I did fill the voids in mine with 40 lbs. of lead so the towers are no longer hollow.---So I wouldn't collect Columbians for speculation purposes but for users or as gifts, you can't beat um.---Unless it's something like a Swivel Jaw Coachmakers.
By the way, a #608 is 160 lbs. without the swivel base, 180 lbs. with the swivel base, and 220 lbs. full of lead.
I might add, B100's Ads say the 608 weighs 170 lbs. but mine weighed 180 lbs.---I don't know why the discrepancy.
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Here's B100's Ad.
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=444798&d=1432253341
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=444797&d=1432253341
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=444795&d=1432253341
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=444796&d=1432253341
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cbacres
Well-known member
Those look great, I bought a Columbian like that just for the pipe jaws, don't know how I managed without for so long.
Do you have the new machine going yet?
cbacres
Well-known member
VA, thanks for posting those, i love reading the old ads on the vises and other old stuff I have.
I don't think there's anything wrong with Columbians at all, your example comparison was a great. Since I'm just obtaining the other Prentises, Parkers and such, I'm able to compare all them and was just voicing my observations.
Like Snap On is a quality tool, Wilton is a quality vise and I usally just sell them the same way so I can two of something else.
Craig
I don't think there's anything wrong with Columbians at all, your example comparison was a great. Since I'm just obtaining the other Prentises, Parkers and such, I'm able to compare all them and was just voicing my observations.
Like Snap On is a quality tool, Wilton is a quality vise and I usally just sell them the same way so I can two of something else.
Craig
Well I am happy and bummed at the same time after buying this Parker 439. When I went to look at it I was fixated on the screw holding the collar on as it was jammed in on angle I didn't notice the bummer. This vise has one of the worst restorations I have seen, paint over the moving swivel joints and paint over grease.
Anyway the bummer part, when i got it home and was admiring it I saw the cracked support. I paid $125 for it so the sting wont last too long and its such a rare vise and I will look into what can be done.
Anyway the bummer part, when i got it home and was admiring it I saw the cracked support. I paid $125 for it so the sting wont last too long and its such a rare vise and I will look into what can be done.
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sandman54
Well-known member
hi all i have a mint 8 inch columbian vise compliments of autopts a great vise .. along with Master Scott get a leg vise or a piece 0f rail if u feel the need to beat on something!
va.grouseman
Well-known member
Sandman, 
,
Pics, many pics.
,Pics, many pics.
Thrumcap
Well-known member
Well, here we have a bit of viseobilia......
A New Britain Machine Co. portable vise stand
A mere $2500
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/atq/5693601369.html
Commiserations NJ Marty, i bet a spot of welding will sort it out...
Thrumcap
A New Britain Machine Co. portable vise stand
A mere $2500
http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/atq/5693601369.html
Commiserations NJ Marty, i bet a spot of welding will sort it out...
Thrumcap
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IHmachinery
Well-known member
KMScott
Well-known member
Thanks IHmachinery. This was my first shot at restoring vises, practiced on the Columbians and a American Scale.
Custom made the pipe jaws with a adjustable stop that bolted in the back. New owner wanted to clamp a certain diameter and adjusting them was pretty easy.
Made my first chips today. I mounted two Kurt doubles on a bolster plate so I can remove the pair as a set. Then made two custom adjustable stops that are bolted to the vise's. First cuts are on the 3/4 hex swivel clamps nested in the aluminum jaws in the Kurt 6" vise.
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GETRIDAONE
Well-known member
My newer model 474 was cracked in the exact same spot ? I heated it on a camp stove using Mapp gas and used a wire welded on it and cooled it down very slow. The main bead is on the bottom so you don't see it and I ground down the top and side. I think it will hold fine since it is such a small piece that was broken.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Marty: great looking vise and sorry to see there is a crack in the jaw. one of the reasons i'm not a huge fan of Parker vises is that i don't possess the skills to fix repairs like that. and the jaws are custom made for each vise is seems so there isn't an easy or cheap replacement if necessary either. i remember Getridofone did a few posts on the Vise Repair 101 thread when he removed his jaw and repaired his break he just mentioned. if you can't find his posts just PM me and i'll help you.
Joe: nice post about Columbian. i'd like to add that Columbian made those little red Craftsman vises in the late 60's thru maybe early 80's that i've seen on many many benches of some very handy guys and they are still in pretty good shape. since they sold so many vises and were more of the Walmart of vises so to speak and pretty common is maybe why their value isn't that of other brands, but i just don't like the look as well as my old Reeds and Rock Islands. they do have a few models i would buy especially their swivel jaw ones. did anybody take you up on the FREE damaged Columbian you offered up.
maybe you need to OFFER MEATSIS MORE MONEY FOR AN 8 INCHER and quit calling him names.
CB: that is typical of the thinking that goes on with big vises. i've seen more chains (sorry VA not talking about your security method) hanging big vises by their jaws to move them than should be allowed. nice story about the vise holding up the steel table and wish you would have taken a picture to post because that had to be a site.
BB: any progress and still sending you some LUCK?
Joe: nice post about Columbian. i'd like to add that Columbian made those little red Craftsman vises in the late 60's thru maybe early 80's that i've seen on many many benches of some very handy guys and they are still in pretty good shape. since they sold so many vises and were more of the Walmart of vises so to speak and pretty common is maybe why their value isn't that of other brands, but i just don't like the look as well as my old Reeds and Rock Islands. they do have a few models i would buy especially their swivel jaw ones. did anybody take you up on the FREE damaged Columbian you offered up.
maybe you need to OFFER MEATSIS MORE MONEY FOR AN 8 INCHER and quit calling him names.
CB: that is typical of the thinking that goes on with big vises. i've seen more chains (sorry VA not talking about your security method) hanging big vises by their jaws to move them than should be allowed. nice story about the vise holding up the steel table and wish you would have taken a picture to post because that had to be a site.
BB: any progress and still sending you some LUCK?
joe.striper
Well-known member
Offer more freakin' $$$? Seriously, that wouldn't settle a thing. He just isnt a good sharer thats all....*******......
The Columbian is still on my porch. I guess free isnt good enough...
I'd put it for free on my CL but I'd be aftaid of a scrapper snagging it. Maybe I'll advertise it for $20 and when the buyer shows up, I'll just give it to him.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Joe: i love your plan with the vise and hope it works.
you are still calling MEATSIS names or is that just the NEW JERSEY way of being friendly.
you are still calling MEATSIS names or is that just the NEW JERSEY way of being friendly.
cbacres
Well-known member
Offer more freakin' $$$? Seriously, that wouldn't settle a thing. He just isnt a good sharer thats all....*******......
The Columbian is still on my porch. I guess free isnt good enough...
I was thinking the same thing, add a cost to the ad and also that the vise is a rare vintage special process hollow made vise.
Make a good place to stash some small vaulables
I finally got a picture of the non-replaceable jaw and it doesn't look too bad assuming the other jaw is in similar condition. Looks like Saturday is the day. He's going to have all the interested parties show up and bid on it auction style.
meatsis
Well-known member
What kind of vise are we talking about here? Did I miss the post where you mentioned it? I know you said it's big, but did you ever say what it actually is?
OCD
Well-known member
On the observation that older Columbian Vises tend to have hollow sections, I was told by an elder gentleman with some knowledge of malleable iron that there are limitations in the section thickness of malleable iron parts. Perhaps this along with malleable iron's potential strength advantage over gray iron allowed them to economize on material. I have a couple of the older Columbian vises that have seen a lot of use and are still great vises. The handful of ductile iron Wilton bullets that I have seen disassembled have some hollow sections. I do not know if ductile iron has the similar limitations in terms of section thickness even though the reasons may be different. Even the 185 pound Reed 4C has some hollow sections that surprised me when I saw them. I was assuming the Reed was gray iron but I am not sure about this. I believe with gray iron castings in large section may require a shrink cavity. Maybe the argument can be made that with a hollow section/shell design you can get more strength and stiffness with a given amount of material. As far as the larger 300 lb. vises, can anyone that has access to one comment as to whether there are any shrink cavities or other recessed areas? I wonder if the manufacturers assumed these bigger vises were more likely to be used/abused and needed all the strength they could get. Thanks for everyone's postings and pictures! I have gotten a tremendous amount of entertainment from this thread.
Nope I never said! And I won't until Saturday!
topop101
Well-known member
topop101
Well-known member
I picked this big dude up today . 6" Indian Chief I had to give a buck a pound for it, In my area that's high but I think for the size and condition I should be ok. To compare I gave $20 for a 5-1/4 85 pound Indian Chief this spring. This one cost me $115. So on average I got 200 pound of vise for $135. That makes me feel a lil'better...
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Peter H
Active member
I got this one from my grandfather. It dates from WW2 and works like new!
