Welding oil pump pickup

[tegguy]

I am a newbie at welding and I have an eastwood 175 welder. I need to weld the oil pickup onto the pump for my 1972 chevelle. Can anyone advise me to where to start wroth the settings on the welder to attempt this. I don't know what material the pump is. Looking to use Flux core write.

Thanks sorry for the novice question.

 

[Know Wosad]

No. Braze it.If you dont have a torch get someone to do it for you

 

[toolman9w]

Braze it. Don't forget to set the depth and mark it. Then take it and have it brazed .

 

[tegguy]

Can you braze with a propane torch or do you have to have an oxyacetalyn? I've read of multiple people who have tack mig welded it with success

 

[dffay]

TIG is good for this. The heat affected zone will be small. And, a small amount of weld is all it will take.

 

[tegguy]

TIG is good for this. The heat affected zone will be small. And, a small amount of weld is all it will take.

I was trying to do this myself so I could pull the motor fix it and put it back in the same day. I don't have a TIG welder. Will Mig not work? Am I missing something?

 

[DTE]

I always send them out and have it tigged. Your joining a steel tube to a cast housing. So that is what has worked for me.

 

[j p smith]

"Usually" Mig welding is not used for cast iron, Mig welding is very iffy for welding the steel pick up tube to the cast iron oil pump body. Also with the welder set hot enough for the cast iron pump body, you stand a good chance of blowing a hole in the pickup tube. I have talked to some people that have tried to weld cast iron with a mig welder, sometimes it will hold most times it breaks apart at the edge of the weld. Not worth it in my book.

 

[bullnerd]

What do you mean fix it.

How do you know its out?

Why pull the engine?

Never welded/brazed one in 30yrs and never had one fall out if installed correct.

 

[landlord30]

Buy a new one. Doesn't seem like its worth the trouble. The oil pickup tube with screen is cheap

 

[DTE]

Buy a new one. Doesn't seem like its worth the trouble. The oil pickup tube with screen is cheap

Welding the pick up tube in place is pretty standard using new parts, chevies are pretty famous for the pick up tube falling out.

 

[BillK]

What the others said. Buy a new screen, they are about $8 Have it TIG welded and make sure you take the relief valve and spring out first. Brazing works good too but does create a lot more heat. MIG does not work worth a **** on cast iron.

If you have the correct tool and you have done enough of them you can install it and not weld it, but I have probably done a couple of hundred and I still don't feel good about not welding them. The factory has some pretty specialized equipment that allows them to get away with it.

 

[BillK]

I was trying to do this myself so I could pull the motor fix it and put it back in the same day.

What is wrong with it ?

 

[kkroger]

Welding the pick up tube in place is pretty standard using new parts, chevies are pretty famous for the pick up tube falling out.

Not really, Never done it, never had one fall out in God only knows how many engines and racecars I have dealt with... Ever... have had loosey goosey OLD pickups in Aftermarket pumps that didn't quite fit but new pickup tube and screen would fit fine.

 

[Bobf]

Be sure and remove the spring prior to brazing on the pump/tube!

 

[bullnerd]

Not really, Never done it, never had one fall out in God only knows how many engines and racecars I have dealt with... Ever... have had loosey goosey OLD pickups in Aftermarket pumps that didn't quite fit but new pickup tube and screen would fit fine.

Same here.

I think its an old car magazine voodoo magic thing.

We used to make the drive tool out of something....piece of scrap tubing? I think I used an old bicycle handlebar once and ground it to fit. It was something common.

 

[GTA Matt]

Not really, Never done it, never had one fall out in God only knows how many engines and racecars I have dealt with... Ever... have had loosey goosey OLD pickups in Aftermarket pumps that didn't quite fit but new pickup tube and screen would fit fine.

Same here.

I think its an old car magazine voodoo magic thing.

We used to make the drive tool out of something....piece of scrap tubing? I think I used an old bicycle handlebar once and ground it to fit. It was something common.

Sure wish I had welded mine...

 

[Ohmthis]

I have migged them in the past. I didn't have any fall out. Since getting my tig several years ago, I tig them now. Locktite has some stuff you can use also, I've never tried it, but the machinist I've used likes it.

 

[bulletpruf]

I have migged them in the past. I didn't have any fall out. Since getting my tig several years ago, I tig them now. Locktite has some stuff you can use also, I've never tried it, but the machinist I've used likes it.

Used my MIG to put a few tacks on the pickup for my Pontiac 455. No issues.

 

[tegguy]

What do you mean fix it.

How do you know its out?

Had a problem with oil pressure dropping. Drained the oil and was able to determine the pickup was laying in the bottom of the pan.

Why pull the engine?

BBC in a 1972 Chevelle you cannot pull the oil pan out with the engine in the car.

Never welded/brazed one in 30yrs and never had one fall out if installed correct.

It's highly recommended from people and vendors to weld or braze the pickup in place since Chevy runs a press fit only. I have already tried to fix this once before and had a co worker weld it for me but I'm not sure of what settings he used on his welder. I'm also not sure where it broke at either.

If I were to attempt to MIG it (practice on the old pump first) what kind of amperage and feedrate should I use as a starting point? Is there any special wire I need or would an off the shelf flux core wire work (I don't have a bottle of welding gas)? Not saying I'm going to do it this way but I'd at least like to practice welding.

 

[Showkey]

If welding or brazing is not available.........drill the housing and pipe and "pin" the pipe so it can move.

There are 1000's of posts on this oil pickup issue.......Google is your friend.......

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/securing-oil-pickup-oil-pump-help-137912.html

 

[bullnerd]

Ahhh, BBC, my bad, I thought I read SBC.

Don't the BB have a bracket on the pickup?

Ive seen them pinned also, never done it though.

I've never miged cast so I'm out.

 

[tegguy]

Ahhh, BBC, my bad, I thought I read SBC.

Don't the BB have a bracket on the pickup?

Ive seen them pinned also, never done it though.

I've never miged cast so I'm out.

Nope no bracket on a BBC.......

 

[tegguy]

If welding or brazing is not available.........drill the housing and pipe and "pin" the pipe so it can move.

There are 1000's of posts on this oil pickup issue.......Google is your friend.......

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/securing-oil-pickup-oil-pump-help-137912.html

I have googled so much that I'm lost. Some people say Braze, Some say TIG, some say you can MIG and I just don't know who to believe.

 

[CNGsaves]

Back in the day . . . . I was "hopping up" a Ford 2.3 ltr 4 banger and sent off for oversize oil pan, hotter cam, headers, etc.

I took oil pickup to weld shop to "Fab Up" the proper bend and depth for the new deeper oil pan.

Pretty sure they used Tig.

Later I sold car to neighbor, and he wrapped it around a tree.

 

[bullnerd]

Summit and jegs probably sell them as a set already welded, as long as they fit your pan.

Stock pan?

 

[FastKat]

My brother builds SBCs and welds the pickups onto the pumps on ever motor he builds. He'd probably do it for you if you wanted to ship it to him. He usually TIGs 5 to 10 at a time... I doubt one more would make a difference!

 

[gungatim]

isn't there a Loctite version for this you can use?

yep just did a search. apparently common red or #640. but I'm in the camp of never having an issue nor seen one fall out, but I have ripped apart motors where the pickup was brazed on so who knows...

 

[zmotorsports]

TIG is good for this. The heat affected zone will be small. And, a small amount of weld is all it will take.

I have MIG'd them in the past when helping someone and not in my shop, however, I prefer to TIG weld them in place. All that is needed is about a half inch weld, not much more than that. Just be certain to measure correctly or clay the pickup so you have the proper distance from the bottom of the pan.

Mike.

 

[Showkey]

I have googled so much that I'm lost. Some people say Braze, Some say TIG, some say you can MIG and I just don't know who to believe.

Think it proves there are many ways to get the same result.........and.........one has to decide which method fits the available tools or situation.

 

[Wanna Ride]

Some guys are trying to argue that this isn't necessary, or that they've never seen this failure. I have, more than once. Seen this many times on BBC, big hp motors. Enough that many engine builders experienced with these motors, will take this extra step. Do you want to do it and be certain everything is right and you won't be tearing it out again for the same reason? Then tig it.

The housing is cast, and requires plenty of heat for penetration. The tube is stamped steel and can't take nearly as much heat. Tig is very isolated heat, and the best choice for this application. If you don't have time to do it right the first time, you're certainly not going to have time to do it again. It's very possible that once you tear it down, you'll find that the way it was fixed before, failed.

 

[bullnerd]

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...002/-1&usg=AFQjCNGN89_FkUHX4grJ10AK5DVi5nHUkQ

I never got into the high pressure thing either, but jegs and summit both sell them.

 

[tegguy]

Summit and jegs probably sell them as a set already welded, as long as they fit your pan.

Stock pan?

Yes stock pan I'll just loctite it and have it tig welded as much as it'll kill me.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...002/-1&usg=AFQjCNGN89_FkUHX4grJ10AK5DVi5nHUkQ

I never got into the high pressure thing either, but jegs and summit both sell them.

I did a lot of research and was going to go the Moroso route but could never find enough data on their pumps. No I didn't call them I just took the safe route.

My brother builds SBCs and welds the pickups onto the pumps on ever motor he builds. He'd probably do it for you if you wanted to ship it to him. He usually TIGs 5 to 10 at a time... I doubt one more would make a difference!

Thanks for the offer I have a co worker that does a side business and he employs a welder so I'll probably have him help me out.

 

[bullnerd]

Sounds like that's the ticket.

Try to have the welder available when you pull it.

 

[tegguy]

Sounds like that's the ticket.

Try to have the welder available when you pull it.

MIG would be no problem I've only user a TIG one time in my life and wouldn't trust myself to weld it if I could borrow one. I might be able to find someone local so if I pull out Friday I could put it back in on sat.

I am going to play with MIG welding on the old pump cause I want to play with my welder.

 

[no704]

Not on oil pick ups but I've had good luck using silver solder with dissimilar metals.

 

[Wanna Ride]

Not on oil pick ups but I've had good luck using silver solder with dissimilar metals.

Same here, but I don't think I'd rely on that for something that can be susceptible to the vibration and harmonics of an internal engine component. Especially with the leverage of the pickup and the tube.

I guess it'd be different if it was an easy item to get to. But with having to pull the engine to get the pan off it, it warrants the best possible repair. Does anything like that, ever fail at an ideal time?

 

[no704]

Agree with that. Rebuilt my first engine when I was 15 a ford 302 and had to pull it back out due to the pick up not seated fully.