Was it ever OK

[n8n]

...to put two 14s under a screw?

Not talking about the "spec grade" receps with the little plates under the screw heads, I'm talking about just the old school loop the wire under the terminals thing.

Reason I ask is WHF just moved into a new place, and I'm seeing this on pretty much any original looking device when I remove it (I've had to pull a few receps and rewire them, when I do I just replace them with new spec grade TR ones now that the orange colored store carries them.) The main reason I'm poking in the electrical is that there are no ceiling lights here and very few receps; the ones that are switched for lamps are inconsistent, some are "split" and some are not, I'm making them all split to make things more convenient.

I was just wondering if this was ever code or if I should talk to the landlord and offer to do a full device replacement?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Never!

But u mentioned landlord.

U shouldnt be doing ANY electrical work...

 

[n8n]

He knows what I'm doing. I've told him every time I've touched something and I intend to keep it that way. I haven't mentioned the two wires under a screw thing yet though, but I think 3 out of the 4 devices I've replaced so far have had it... not really filled with the warm fuzzies about that.

Difficulty: Apparently his son did "all the electrical work in the house." Now there is obviously new stuff and not so new stuff. I'm assuming only the new stuff is his son's responsibility. But how to figure how to bring this up diplomatically...

 

[Dagny]

It's always wrong but probably won't burst into flames.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Not in any houses I have seen wired with "romex" !

The "old" method for doing a daisy chain, was to use the second screw OR if branching off in more than 1 directions, one wire was left long and bared for about 1/2", about 4" from the end. That bared section went under the screw. The end was bared and wire nutted to the outgoing wire.

 

[Mr. T]

One termination = One wire. Always and forever.

Now, as with any rule, there are exceptions; not on receptacles though.

 

[NoGarageAtHome]

Best to use a wire nut for splicing, ... Not a receptacle.

You can land two wires in the back of a receptacle so you can cut the tab and have one plug on constant power and the other half can be switched.

 

[rburke65]

But that is still " one wire...one screw".

 

[wyliesdiesels]

He knows what I'm doing. I've told him every time I've touched something and I intend to keep it that way. I haven't mentioned the two wires under a screw thing yet though, but I think 3 out of the 4 devices I've replaced so far have had it... not really filled with the warm fuzzies about that.

Difficulty: Apparently his son did "all the electrical work in the house." Now there is obviously new stuff and not so new stuff. I'm assuming only the new stuff is his son's responsibility. But how to figure how to bring this up diplomatically...

Why are u investing time and money into his house to repair faulty work?

He should be doing that!

 

[Slycox]

Why are u investing time and money into his house to repair faulty work?

He should be doing that!

I've done some work around our rental, making things a little more comfortable for us, door seals, kick plates on carpets, some painting but i quit giving a **** after the last time the landlord was here and we pointed out a few things and they haven't been fixed yet almost a year later. They don't care, neither will I. We maintain the house well and if we break something we fix it but I'm done doing the extra.

But that being said i told them I will not touch electrical or plumbing. That is a huge liability I don't want on me once i move out. If something goes south it's on them.

 

[Jess]

I have rentals and the one thing I will not and are not supposed to do is electrical. I decide what I need done and call the electrical contractor that we retain for this type of work. Done right, safe, reasonably priced and no insurance or safety concerns. You would be astonished at what some tenants will do on their own, even if I would have an electrician take care of it if they asked. Like lights in closets, spliced in the attic, taped and covered with garden hose over the splice. Outdoor fixtures moved but no saucer or box under. Its gets better all the time...

 

[n8n]

Why are u investing time and money into his house to repair faulty work?

He should be doing that!

Well, for example, last recep I replaced, it was a switched recep, wanted to plug in a stereo in that location. Opened it up and there was a black wire wire nutted through in the back of the box. Simple easy fix. Trying to convince a landlord that he needs to pay someone to replace and split a receptacle is an uphill battle, but I can replace it with a new code compliant one with a nice new Mulberry metal plate for under $3 and a few minutes of my time and that's buying at the Orange Colored Store... I replaced the switch controlling it as well because the recep was brown, the switch was ivory, and all the plates throughout the house are white and that makes my OCD skin crawl. So there's another $3 or so. The switch BTW is where I found the latest instance of "two wires under a screw" and it looked like a very old switch - not sure of my electrical device history but it was old enough it had "LEVITON" molded into the end of the toggle, can't remember the last time I've seen that, it might be older than Yours Truly. So IMHO I made a meaningful improvement for $6 in materials and a half hour of my time, to get a pro to show up would have been over $100 never mind actually doing anything, easier to sell my own work than just tell someone they have to call a pro. If someone told me I had to spend $2-300 to split a recep, depending on their tone I would have either done it myself or else told them to get a damn extension cord.

I also like building good relationships with people by showing them that I'm trying to do the right thing and not be petty, but I'm not sure it's always appreciated.

 

[Short Round]

I've always done that with my landlords. A switch goes bad I replace it and let them know when I see it. Normally got the "just give me the receipt and deducted from the rent" but I never bothered. Same thing; just a few niggling things to fix.

Most often in the last place was loose wires under the screws on outlets. The builder of the place was a nice guy, I knew him, but he was quite the drinker so I would never trust his work based on that combined with what I saw. His other spectacular was in the other side of the duplex, the little old lady's upper kitchen cabinets fell partly off the wall dumping most of her dishes on the floor. I looked it over and saw that the few screws that held up the cabinets were in the fiberboard backwall and not in any of the structural frames despite the framework being right there begging for some screws. Later I went back to my side of the duplex and looked at mine. Mine was screwed to the wall through the wood framing at least.

Now when things like a water heater or furnace went, I make the call for them to send some one. I had a furnace with a cracked heat exchanger that set off my CO monitor....in January or February. ****** but deadlined the furnace and turned up the bathroom electric baseboard for the night.

Same place I had one electrical thing I never figured out and punted to the LL on and they never fixed it. Back porch light worked when I moved in and it quit after a year or so. Switch was good and the run was intermittently working at the light before it quit all together. I checked the box and was hot when I pulled the light off the box. All I could figure there was a junction buried in the wall with a bad/loose connection. I switched it off at the breaker and the LL never got on that one. I wasn't tearing a wall apart in a rental. I suspected moisture might be a problem as they had a disused dryer exhaust hole I the same stud bay and it was patched with black plastic (poorly).

 

[n8n]

Most often in the last place was loose wires under the screws on outlets. The builder of the place was a nice guy, I knew him, but he was quite the drinker so I would never trust his work based on that combined with what I saw.

Better builder than most, I don't know a single residential electrician who doesn't just use the backstabs whenever they can. @#$%$#$

I always use spec grade whenever I have time to source it and even if I don't I always use the screws...

 

[Speedy Petey]

Better builder than most, I don't know a single residential electrician who doesn't just use the backstabs whenever they can. @#$%$#$

That's funny, I don't know one who does. You need to associate with better people.

 

[n8n]

That's funny, I don't know one who does (use backstabs). You need to associate with better people.

LOL most of the people I know who are actual electricians are commercial, and have some amount of pride.

But my point was, the only time I've ever seen a residential switch or recep NOT wired with the backstabs it was either installed by YT or someone helping me/I was helping or else it was so old it predated backstabs. I honestly can't remember seeing a device that had the option of backstabbing where that option wasn't used.

 

[jim111]

Why would you post on an electrical forum for advice/comment/question, and then seem to accuse all actual residential electricians of shabby practices such as using backstabs? We take pride in our work too

 

[n8n]

I'm not seeming to accuse, I am stating that 100% of the residential work that I have seen that a) wasn't done by me or someone I know and b) was new enough to have used backstabbable devices was in fact backstabbed.

I'm not even accusing the people that do that of doing anything wrong - they are likely doing what they are directed to do, that is, perform a code compliant installation as quickly and inexpensively as possible (and backstabs still are compliant for 14AWG) Even using the "back wire" style screw terminal devices like most of the spec grade ones available takes more time than shoving a conductor in a hole and tugging on it to make sure it's not going to fall out, and those devices cost more than the generic builder grade ones as well. It's just my opinion that for long term durability and safety that backstabs ought to be avoided.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Well, for example, last recep I replaced, it was a switched recep, wanted to plug in a stereo in that location. Opened it up and there was a black wire wire nutted through in the back of the box. Simple easy fix. Trying to convince a landlord that he needs to pay someone to replace and split a receptacle is an uphill battle, but I can replace it with a new code compliant one with a nice new Mulberry metal plate for under $3 and a few minutes of my time and that's buying at the Orange Colored Store... I replaced the switch controlling it as well because the recep was brown, the switch was ivory, and all the plates throughout the house are white and that makes my OCD skin crawl. So there's another $3 or so. The switch BTW is where I found the latest instance of "two wires under a screw" and it looked like a very old switch - not sure of my electrical device history but it was old enough it had "LEVITON" molded into the end of the toggle, can't remember the last time I've seen that, it might be older than Yours Truly. So IMHO I made a meaningful improvement for $6 in materials and a half hour of my time, to get a pro to show up would have been over $100 never mind actually doing anything, easier to sell my own work than just tell someone they have to call a pro. If someone told me I had to spend $2-300 to split a recep, depending on their tone I would have either done it myself or else told them to get a damn extension cord.

I also like building good relationships with people by showing them that I'm trying to do the right thing and not be petty, but I'm not sure it's always appreciated.

And if/when u have a fire and the house burns down the liability is on you.

 

[n8n]

And if/when u have a fire and the house burns down the liability is on you.

I guarantee you if that ever happens it'll be because of something I didn't get to rather than something I did.