Nails!!!

[bczygan]

OK, Let's see if we can nail this down.

Hand nails and nail gun nails for framing.

I see there are differences in sizing and construction.

I'm used to hand nailing with galvanized
Ardox spiral 16d nails for my 2x framing.

What would the equivalent nail gun nails?

Would I have to use more nails for equal connectivity?

Bill

 

[wildbill23c]

Interesting question, I can't answer it, I don't have a nail gun, but I'm interested to know the answer to your question as well.

 

[bczygan]

The one application I have right now is face nailing two 2x's together.

Would you use .120 or .131 or .148? This would be for 21 degree plastic collated round head nails. Would you use 3" or 3 1/4" and toe nail?

Can they be gotten in galvanized?

Bill

 

[ryan20021982]

Personally if you want the best hold you can get I would get the biggest diameter your gun will shoot. Seems like no matter the size a hand driven 16d always holds better than a gun nail.

If your shooting 2 2x's face to face then use the 3 1/4" and angle them so they dont stick out and it will hold better also.

And yes you should have no problem getting them in galvanized.

 

[chuckya]

I used 21° framing nailer with 3 1/4" galvanized nails for my beams for the deck I built. I toeniled them and they worked fine. If I was to do it again I would just of used 3" and fired them straight in. Home depot carries both, I used dewalt.

 

[bob15]

A 16d nail is 3.5" long.

Here are US made screw nails nails: http://www.mazenails.com/nails/4/29/CT44*S/decking/treated-decking/spiral-shank-ptl-nails

 

[lakeroadster]

Use Ring Shank Nails... if you don't ever want to take the nail out.

 

[bczygan]

Will 20 and 22 degree nails work in a 21 degree gun?

Does it matter who's nail it is, as long as it is plastic collated round head for a gun designed for that?

Bill

 

[Outlawmws]

Bill are you talking about cement (Glue) coated green sinkers when you talk about "plastic coated"?

The green glue is heat activated, so a nail gun does that job better than hand hammering. Hand hammering works but the nail gun gets it done more consistently The glue keeps them from pulling.

Are you framing for a house/shop" or for fencing? For Fencing I've switched completely to torx head deck screws.

 

[bczygan]

Bill are you talking about cement (Glue) coated green sinkers when you talk about "plastic coated"?

The green glue is heat activated, so a nail gun does that job better than hand hammering. Hand hammering works but the nail gun gets it done more consistently The glue keeps them from pulling.

Are you framing for a house/shop" or for fencing? For Fencing I've switched completely to torx head deck screws.

Not plastic coated.....plastic collated. How they are connected together. They all seem to have glue on the tips.

I'm adding rafter tails on my rafters to create a small overhang. Then will be doing general framing.

Probably overthinking and should just fire an extra nail or two. But trying to learn about the difference between old tech and new tech.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

One thing I notice, is that the big box stores don't carry the galvanized or bigger than .131 nails in stock.

And my gun (Hitachi NR 90AE (S1)) doesn't take bigger than .148.

Bill

 

[1969]

Unless you are building something that requires the utmost strength, you might be overthinking this. Thats just my opinion of course.

 

[bczygan]

Correction:

Just discovered that the local Lowes DOES have galvanized framing nails. But their online search is screwy. Unless you do it in a certain order, you don't find them.

Also found a box of 4000 .131 bright for $5 on CL.




Bill

 

[Outlawmws]

Not plastic coated.....plastic collated. How they are connected together. They all seem to have glue on the tips.

I'm adding rafter tails on my rafters to create a small overhang. Then will be doing general framing.

Probably overthinking and should just fire an extra nail or two. But trying to learn about the difference between old tech and new tech.

Bill

Got it!

 

[theoldwizard1]

I'm used to hand nailing with galvanized
Ardox spiral 16d nails for my 2x framing.

You do know that is way overkill for framing, unless it is going to be exposed to the weather.

What would the equivalent nail gun nails?

Not that i have seen a lot of nail gun mails, I can't remember EVER seeing hot dipped galvanized OR Ardox nails for nail guns.

(Many (most ?) mail gun nails have a type of "hot glue" on them that is heated as they are driven to help them hold better.

 

[bob15]

Maze nails (link post # 6) are hot dipped galvanized and are plastic collated for nail guns. They also come in smooth & ring shanked as well as the screw type and come in lengths in: 2 to 3.5 inch lengths in different diameters.

Go on their website for other lengths and types, collated and loose nails.

 

[dewalt378g]

Why use galv in general framing?.... unless you are using PT lumber? Just curious. Anyway, just something to think about, will your nail gun fit between your rafter bays after adding the extensions? It may fit at an angle, but nailing on rafter tails on an angle can be a pita as the force of the gun can push the work out of alignment. Idk your situation, but if you are doing this with the roof deck in place then I would use screws in favor of control over speed.

As for 20 21 22 degree it depends on your nailer and how forgiving it is. Some nailers only work with the right nail/manufacture and some will run almost anything.

 

[bczygan]

OK,

Thanks Guys!

I've got it sorted.

Returned the .120 3" bright nails and picked up some 3 1/4" galvanized .131's.

Should do for now.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Why use galv in general framing?.... unless you are using PT lumber? Just curious. Anyway, just something to think about, will your nail gun fit between your rafter bays after adding the extensions? It may fit at an angle, but nailing on rafter tails on an angle can be a pita as the force of the gun can push the work out of alignment. Idk your situation, but if you are doing this with the roof deck in place then I would use screws in favor of control over speed.

As for 20 21 22 degree it depends on your nailer and how forgiving it is. Some nailers only work with the right nail/manufacture and some will run almost anything.

Some good points!

In fact, the Lowes associate suggested that the 30 degree Hitachi gun might be better than the 21 degree one. But it shoots clipped head and I preferred full round head.

We'll see how things fit when I take the gun up there.

Tail extension is only going to be enough to get a continuous vent installed in a soffit. It is also because the ends of the existing rafters have deteriorated. Putting new fascia boards on too. Will use 2x4's that extend up the rafter a ways, so should have lots of room to work. Will probably replace the first 1x board on the roof, so access outside should be good too.

How forgiving of size and make is the Hitachi NR 90AE (S1)?

Bill

 

[KnurledNut]

Everyone calls 3-1/4" gun nails "16's".
But they are actually 12's.
The 3" "16's" are 10's.

On your rafter tails, pin it from both sides. It will hold better.

 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Dumb question: why not use screws? I try to avoid using nails whenever possible these days.

 

[OccupantRJ]

I also have the Hitachi like yours. I use the .131 for general nailing, and the .120 for toe nailing rafters at the top plate through the side grain. Ring shanks hold really well. I like the Hitachi better than the other 3 guns I am selling.

 

[dewalt378g]

Some good points!

In fact, the Lowes associate suggested that the 30 degree Hitachi gun might be better than the 21 degree one. But it shoots clipped head and I preferred full round head.

We'll see how things fit when I take the gun up there.

Tail extension is only going to be enough to get a continuous vent installed in a soffit. It is also because the ends of the existing rafters have deteriorated. Putting new fascia boards on too. Will use 2x4's that extend up the rafter a ways, so should have lots of room to work. Will probably replace the first 1x board on the roof, so access outside should be good too.

How forgiving of size and make is the Hitachi NR 90AE (S1)?

Bill

Ah, I see now. Yeah you should have no problem pinning those with your nailer. Two things;

1. You probably know this already, but soffit vents are useless unless there is a gable or ridge vent. Also, I've seen many a soffit vent rendered useless after the insulation was done and packed into the eve at the roof deck / wall top plate area cutting off the air flow.

2. String line your rafter tails (regardless of how good existing is) and use the best lumber for your fascia. It will make life so much easier for you during installation and for later applications (like gutters) esp. if capping with aluminum. Not only that but the house will look nice and straight regardless of existing framing and there will be a nice straight line to nail on your drip edge.


As far as your nailer goes I can't really help you there. I run a Bostitch. But yours is a 21 degree which is an industry standard. You should have no problems finding the right nails in your favorite flavor. Mine is also 21 degree full round head and have had no problems with any of the nails in the big box stores. Someone had already mentioned Maze nails, you can pretty much get anything you want there.

 

[bczygan]

Some answers.

I did get them in galvanized .131 3 1/4" at Lowes. Their online search function ***** if done in the wrong order. And when I went to Lowes to return the others and pick up the new, they gave me a crushed box that looked like it had partly corroded in someones truck for a year. I switched it for newer stock.

Also picking up 4000 bright 3" .131 for $5 off CL.

The Hitachi is a hell of a gun. Makes me want to build some buildings.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

Ah, I see now. Yeah you should have no problem pinning those with your nailer. Two things;

1. You probably know this already, but soffit vents are useless unless there is a gable or ridge vent. Also, I've seen many a soffit vent rendered useless after the insulation was done and packed into the eve at the roof deck / wall top plate area cutting off the air flow.

2. String line your rafter tails (regardless of how good existing is) and use the best lumber for your fascia. It will make life so much easier for you during installation and for later applications (like gutters) esp. if capping with aluminum. Not only that but the house will look nice and straight regardless of existing framing and there will be a nice straight line to nail on your drip edge.


As far as your nailer goes I can't really help you there. I run a Bostitch. But yours is a 21 degree which is an industry standard. You should have no problems finding the right nails in your favorite flavor. Mine is also 21 degree full round head and have had no problems with any of the nails in the big box stores. Someone had already mentioned Maze nails, you can pretty much get anything you want there.

String line is a great idea I hadn't thought of.

I've got 2 layers to strip, including an 1/8" thick 3 tab that may be original to 1941.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

15 bundles of shingles on the roof. Humped the last two up by hand, from level to level. 16 left to go.

Have enough up there to do one side of the roof.

Picked up a roofing shovel at a junk place for $7, so I can strip the 2 layers of existing shingles.

Bought a roofing nailer and nails and a framing nailer and nails, so I can extend the rafter tails where they rotted at the ends and install a continuous eave vent.

I already have the ridge vent needed and some roofing felt. Might get the better underlayment. Have some 1x boards to replace any rotted ones and new fascia boards primed and painted.

Need some new chimney flashing and ice and water shield. Also white alum. drip edge.

Things I need to locate:
Hammer tacker stapler
Chalk
Chalk line
Hook blades for utility knife

Thinking about fall protection.

Bill

 

[bczygan]

And to answer my own original question about the use of hand nailed nails versus nailer nails, here is a PDF that shows some of the differences in nailing patterns.

http://www.icc-es.org/Reports/pdf_files/ESR-1539.pdf

Start looking at page 15.

Bill

 

[ryan20021982]

15 bundles of shingles on the roof. Humped the last two up by hand, from level to level. 16 left to go.

Have enough up there to do one side of the roof.

Picked up a roofing shovel at a junk place for $7, so I can strip the 2 layers of existing shingles.

Bought a roofing nailer and nails and a framing nailer and nails, so I can extend the rafter tails where they rotted at the ends and install a continuous eave vent.

I already have the ridge vent needed and some roofing felt. Might get the better underlayment. Have some 1x boards to replace any rotted ones and new fascia boards primed and painted.

Need some new chimney flashing and ice and water shield. Also white alum. drip edge.

Things I need to locate:
Hammer tacker stapler
Chalk
Chalk line
Hook blades for utility knife

Thinking about fall protection.

Bill

If you have one a flat blade pitch fork is the best shingle stripper, it just doesn't remove most nails like the shovel does but the shovel is alot more work.

And if your worried about falling I would not use a hammer tacker for felt paper if thats what you wanted it for, if you push off the paper it will rip right off the staple, actually I would never use it, we only use cap nails for felt paper.

 

[bczygan]

If you have one a flat blade pitch fork is the best shingle stripper, it just doesn't remove most nails like the shovel does but the shovel is alot more work.

And if your worried about falling I would not use a hammer tacker for felt paper if thats what you wanted it for, if you push off the paper it will rip right off the staple, actually I would never use it, we only use cap nails for felt paper.

Cap nails it is then!

4 1/2 pitch I think. OK to walk on that kind of slope, except the top layer of shingles is disintegrated into little bits and pieces. Roof has been shedding for years. Too slippery to walk on. I'll start at the ridge and work down so I have good footing. Don't mind working while sitting on my **** if needed. Speed doesn't matter.

I have a flat tined D handle pitchfork and a couple of those three tined ones like in the painting American Gothic".

Bill

 

[ryan20021982]

Cap nails it is then!

4 1/2 pitch I think. OK to walk on that kind of slope, except the top layer of shingles is disintegrated into little bits and pieces. Roof has been shedding for years. Too slippery to walk on. I'll start at the ridge and work down so I have good footing. Don't mind working while sitting on my **** if needed. Speed doesn't matter.

I have a flat tined D handle pitchfork and a couple of those three tined ones like in the painting American Gothic".

Bill

Yes the d handle flat ones are the easiest on your body, if you already have then just try both and see which you prefer, I just know you hurt worse the next day after ramming those shovels and hitting the nails.