jreb10
Well-known member
Yeah, I had one a while ago. I got lucky and it cleaned up real well. Original paint underneath. Ultimately I got a good price on eBay for it.
The VISES of Garage Journal
- Thread starter mjozefow
- Start date
Yeah, I had one a while ago. I got lucky and it cleaned up real well. Original paint underneath. Ultimately I got a good price on eBay for it.
va.grouseman
Well-known member
Got my first Record.---I haven't been able to get a reasonable deal on anything from across the pond.---Missed out on a Paramo for a $100.00 last year and that's as close as I've come.---English and German vises have really increased in value in the last two years.---I've been wanting and looking for one of those 150+ lb. combination Records and had to settle for a table vise.
JZiggy posted a nicer one on page 2348 along with a Paramo table vise.---Some of these fellows can find the good deals in these good foreign made vises, I can't.
JZiggy posted a nicer one on page 2348 along with a Paramo table vise.---Some of these fellows can find the good deals in these good foreign made vises, I can't.
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dutchgray
Well-known member
VA
Those Record Combination vices are a rare find over here where Records are 90% of what is out there, although I wouldn't be surprised if they exported a lot more than they sold domestically.
That IMP looks good however and whilst they aren't rare here there isn't that many nice ones about and its always nice to see them in the proper colour as too many get the its a Record so it should be blue treatment.
Those Record Combination vices are a rare find over here where Records are 90% of what is out there, although I wouldn't be surprised if they exported a lot more than they sold domestically.
That IMP looks good however and whilst they aren't rare here there isn't that many nice ones about and its always nice to see them in the proper colour as too many get the its a Record so it should be blue treatment.
jreb10
Well-known member
Just to add on to my previous comments about 519x jaw characteristics, here are a couple of comparisons.
I have finally started working on my 5198. That will be a topic for the future. But here are a couple of comparisons of the 5198 jaw insert with a couple of Rock Island-produced Sears vises. I don't have any Rock Island-labeled vises so these will have to do. All these vises are mid 1940s to early 1950s I think.
First, here is the 5198 jaw insert next to a Dunlap 5176 (that is the same as a Craftsman 5162 and a Rock Island 573):
And here is the 5198 jaw insert next to a Rock Island-produced 3 inch Craftsman 5160:
It sure looks to me like these jaw inserts all came out of the same industrial process.
Is this definitive? No, not even close. But I think it is worth considering as an interesting clue.
As I recall Desmond Stephan machnist vises have jaw inserts whose serrations are similar. It would be interesting to do a comparison to them.
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va.grouseman
Well-known member
Dutch, you're painting me a gloomy picture where my hopes and dreams are concerned.---I have a soft spot for the big combinations of any brand, and was hoping to one day adding the big Record to my herd.---But to be honest, I haven't seen too many of the big Record combos in this entire thread.---Seems like there are more of them in Canada than in England.
CwazyWabbit
Well-known member
I have a 633 and a 634, both in need of restoration ... in fact the 634 is in need of collecting as it's been sitting at a mates for over a year :-/
So they are out there, the 633 was bought from a scrap yard and the other was advertised for ages before I paid 50 for it.
So they are out there, the 633 was bought from a scrap yard and the other was advertised for ages before I paid 50 for it.
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honza.vosalik
Well-known member
drivesitfar
Well-known member
VA: i didn't know you didn't own an English vice or i would have mentioned a few to add on the last pallet. glad you found one and i agree they were made to last. i have a few Record Wood vises with quick release feature that are as nice as any that is for certain not to mention their bench vices and i'm still looking for an old big un.
Jreb: clues are all over to solving the mystery and i'm waiting for one you that has time to start and host a thread about solving the mystery of who the maker was for the 519x's. are you up to it because i'll support that thread trying to find the answer?
CW: that's too funny because i think i've had a few sit on other member's and friend's shelves for a while myself. if you have time post up a few pictures when you make posts like that because you know how we like all that good vice ****. how's the Parkinson stand coming along and any of you gems sitting on it yet?
Honza: that looks like a C2 so yes go buy it even if that line on the back is damage because the swivel base and stand are worth that much and if the vise is in good shape it's a WELL DONE DEAL.
BROREX: here's the link to the Vise Repair 101 thread and yes there is plenty of information on there. post pictures there or here of your vises when you can and welcome to the forum. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=252830
Jreb: clues are all over to solving the mystery and i'm waiting for one you that has time to start and host a thread about solving the mystery of who the maker was for the 519x's. are you up to it because i'll support that thread trying to find the answer?
CW: that's too funny because i think i've had a few sit on other member's and friend's shelves for a while myself. if you have time post up a few pictures when you make posts like that because you know how we like all that good vice ****. how's the Parkinson stand coming along and any of you gems sitting on it yet?
Honza: that looks like a C2 so yes go buy it even if that line on the back is damage because the swivel base and stand are worth that much and if the vise is in good shape it's a WELL DONE DEAL.
BROREX: here's the link to the Vise Repair 101 thread and yes there is plenty of information on there. post pictures there or here of your vises when you can and welcome to the forum. http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=252830
honza.vosalik
Well-known member
The jaws are 3.5", so I assume it's a C0?
I would easily give $100 for that right now... Been looking for a decent deal for a while nowThinking about picking this up for $100. Pipe jaws are missing
Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Yup C0. Later one, probably 1970's or 1980's.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
Honza: sure looks a lot bigger in the picture or the fireplace pit is tiny. i'd be over there to check it out and make sure in person if it was close at that price. if not damaged its almost as good of a deal as your last C0 for $40. if it's a C1 or C2 and even if damaged the parts are worth more.
I looked up that 101169 number, that is a C1 vise, nice score.
I wonder who might have a C1 main screw and handle in nice shape if he can figure out what hole he stashed it in LOL.
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honza.vosalik
Well-known member
Yeah, the last C0 was a heck of a deal in that condition!
I know, the pictures look misleading. I asked the guy explicitly and he told me 3.5".
Pipe jaws will be ~$80, another ~25 for swivel bolts. It's adding up
What is a C0 worth after restoration?honza.vosalik
Well-known member
I looked up that 10169 number, that is a C1 vise, nice score.
I wonder who might have a C1 main screw and handle in nice shape if he can figure out what hole he stashed it in LOL.
Wow. I guess he didn't measure it correctly.
That's a different vise, yours is a 101167.
CwazyWabbit
Well-known member
I've run out of space to have the stand set up at the moment! Going to need to sort out another shed or move house I reckon ....
dutchgray
Well-known member
CW
I seem to remember it was I who spotted the 633 but it was no where near me and in very rough condition, I think I have seen one other since and a unbranded but obviously Fortis made 12C that would have been close enough to get but it went for quite a lot and didn't have any pipe jaws. They are just not very common.
In other news my scrap man is going to find me some plate to make a stand out of for the 114, its about time it was mounted and not on the floor. I already have 5' 6" of rail to make the post out of.
I seem to remember it was I who spotted the 633 but it was no where near me and in very rough condition, I think I have seen one other since and a unbranded but obviously Fortis made 12C that would have been close enough to get but it went for quite a lot and didn't have any pipe jaws. They are just not very common.
In other news my scrap man is going to find me some plate to make a stand out of for the 114, its about time it was mounted and not on the floor. I already have 5' 6" of rail to make the post out of.
joseph.a.owens.9
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2014
- Messages
- 279
Lol sorry about the poor pictures wasn't thinking. It's all there.
Sent from my SM-G530R4 using Tapatalk
trijeff
Well-known member
Solid pickup even if a C0 (vs. C2) and w/o pipe jaws ... really clean looking and along with that leveling stand it's a great deal. Make sure to ask that the seller doesn't have the pipe jaws unless the ad specifically states so. Sometimes they're just tucked away in a drawer. But I would check it out for sure regardless.Thinking about picking this up for $100. Pipe jaws are missing
EDIT: just seeing all these additional posts, I must have been looking at an old page when I replied
drivesitfar
Well-known member
TJ: good point about the pipe jaws and probably why so many are MIA. a lot of them get removed or put aside for a job and the new owner forgot to ask or didn't know the seller had them. i asked about a missing swivel pin on a Wilton i recently picked up and the seller had it and it just wasn't in the pictures.
you've bought enough C series Wilton vises so don't you think that one on the stand Honza posted is bigger than a C0?
Joseph: post up pictures, but most likely you have a great old vise unless it's broken or welded and even the welded ones could be a user for some guy's welding table.
you've bought enough C series Wilton vises so don't you think that one on the stand Honza posted is bigger than a C0?
Joseph: post up pictures, but most likely you have a great old vise unless it's broken or welded and even the welded ones could be a user for some guy's welding table.
oldldh
Well-known member
jreb10....
The 5198 has been my "Grail" for a long time...
One other thing on your "They were made by Rock Island" hypothesis...
Somewhere, I'll find it, I have a catalog page stating that the "Vise will be dropped shipped from the factory, in Southern Illinois..."
Rock Island is in Northern Illinois, however, they may have had another plant is the other end of the state...
Found the ads...
The 5198 has been my "Grail" for a long time...
One other thing on your "They were made by Rock Island" hypothesis...
Somewhere, I'll find it, I have a catalog page stating that the "Vise will be dropped shipped from the factory, in Southern Illinois..."
Rock Island is in Northern Illinois, however, they may have had another plant is the other end of the state...
Found the ads...
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McBrownie
Well-known member
Jreb,
Those really look like they came off of the same machine. I have a couple of Desmond-Stephans wood vises that are definitely Columbians. I wonder if Desmond Stephans (outside Columbus, Ohio) had their own foundry or if they sub'd their casting work out. My guess is that they contracted it out.
Oldie,
Nice detective work on the shipping address!
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So now we need to find out if Birtman Electric had a plant or warehouse in southern Illinois. In 1930 rock island mfg became a division of birtman of Chicago. If so we may have the smoking gun as to who made them. The 519x however doesn't say where it's made/shipped from, only the 516x. But that 5168 must be as rare as they get.
joe.striper
Well-known member
Yeah, I had one a while ago. I got lucky and it cleaned up real well. Original paint underneath. Ultimately I got a good price on eBay for it.
Jreb, thanks soooo much. Thats it! The company that made it is still in business. Vise went into the degreasing tank tonight. I am thinkg about a boiled linseed finish.
jakemac
Well-known member
Or ...... The manufacturing was done in the North, but the distribution facility was in the South.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
ALL: since most of us that even give a rip on who made the 519x's visits this thread pretty often then this might be the best place for it so all of us can give our two cents.
another option is Morgan because jaws are similar and the handle is similar to their's and Starrett which is a brand that i was told a couple years ago by a very handy 80 year old machinist saying they made them.
i'm still leaning to Rock Island because they were having financial issues and would have jumped at an offer to work with Sears again which was the Amazon of their day.
if my sister hadn't cleaned out my parents house (yes they are still alive) i bet those old Sears catalogs would still be in a box someplace there. if i recall correctly they were about 2 inches thick and we'd get one every year and shop there about every other weekend. anybody have the actual Sears catalogs from the years of the 519x's to maybe get something that isn't on the small catalogs i've seen posted?
another option is Morgan because jaws are similar and the handle is similar to their's and Starrett which is a brand that i was told a couple years ago by a very handy 80 year old machinist saying they made them.
i'm still leaning to Rock Island because they were having financial issues and would have jumped at an offer to work with Sears again which was the Amazon of their day.
if my sister hadn't cleaned out my parents house (yes they are still alive) i bet those old Sears catalogs would still be in a box someplace there. if i recall correctly they were about 2 inches thick and we'd get one every year and shop there about every other weekend. anybody have the actual Sears catalogs from the years of the 519x's to maybe get something that isn't on the small catalogs i've seen posted?
Do we know that rock island/birtman was having issues in the 50s? They ultimately didn't go bankrupt, they were bought out/merged with whirlpool-seeger in 1957 because they wanted birtmans vacuum cleaner division.
http://assets.whirlpoolcorp.com/wp-content/uploads/history_100years_factsheet.pdf
http://assets.whirlpoolcorp.com/wp-content/uploads/history_100years_factsheet.pdf
Outlawmws
Well-known member
From: http://trowelcollector.blogspot.com/2015/07/history-of-rock-island-manufacturing-co.html
which would explain why the 1960 Sears catalogs no longer showed that vise, so that bit ties in.
which would explain why the 1960 Sears catalogs no longer showed that vise, so that bit ties in.
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drivesitfar
Well-known member
JROBB: i can't recall where i had read that Rock Island was in financial difficulty and a lot of my data and pictures are on an old ailing laptop that can't stay on for more than a couple minutes. there vises quit being made almost the same time the 519x's stopped being made might be coincidental.
anybody have Rock Island financials or company information to share that might help with 519x'x MYSTERY?
OUTLAW: NICE ONE. thanks and just saw it after i posted mine.
anybody have Rock Island financials or company information to share that might help with 519x'x MYSTERY?
OUTLAW: NICE ONE. thanks and just saw it after i posted mine.
KMScott
Well-known member
Rock Island Jaws
I know the dimensions of the 3", 4", 4-1/2", 5" and 6" Rock Island jaws and have made many, a few have been used on Craftsman 51xxx vises but I can not confirm. I do not have the luxury of actually touching the 519xx vises but it look to me like the Rock Island jaws are a match. Craftsman might bevel the tops of the jaws a little different. I do know that a Rock Island 571 jaw fits a Craftsman 5160. I have several confirmed fittings and sales. I would be happy to send a drawing to anyone that wants to check. PM me with a e-mail address.
Honzas vise is a C0, it's numbers 101167 are a later model C0 vise.
I know the dimensions of the 3", 4", 4-1/2", 5" and 6" Rock Island jaws and have made many, a few have been used on Craftsman 51xxx vises but I can not confirm. I do not have the luxury of actually touching the 519xx vises but it look to me like the Rock Island jaws are a match. Craftsman might bevel the tops of the jaws a little different. I do know that a Rock Island 571 jaw fits a Craftsman 5160. I have several confirmed fittings and sales. I would be happy to send a drawing to anyone that wants to check. PM me with a e-mail address.
Honzas vise is a C0, it's numbers 101167 are a later model C0 vise.
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CRSINMICH
Well-known member
oldldh
Well-known member
Every time I start smoking my shoelaces...
And...
Gaze out at a sunset on the Gulf of Mexico...
And...
Take a pull on a 33 degree Corona...
I have the same day dream...
I'm going to find an old hardware store with three N.O.S. Craftsman vises...A 5197, a 5198, and the unknown/only one ever made/Unicorn 5199 6" 175 pound Machinist vise...And buried under a pile of pallets --- a 345 pound 5168...
And then I zone back into reality...
And...
Gaze out at a sunset on the Gulf of Mexico...
And...
Take a pull on a 33 degree Corona...
I have the same day dream...
I'm going to find an old hardware store with three N.O.S. Craftsman vises...A 5197, a 5198, and the unknown/only one ever made/Unicorn 5199 6" 175 pound Machinist vise...And buried under a pile of pallets --- a 345 pound 5168...
And then I zone back into reality...
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jakemac
Well-known member
^^^^^^ I'll have some of what he's having. ^^^^^^^
(Glaucoma, don'tya know)
(Glaucoma, don'tya know
)CwazyWabbit
Well-known member
There's also one for sale in East Grinstead at the moment with only a day or so left it's at just over a quid. Poorly listed and a bit muddy .... no pipe jaws.
Looking forward to seeing how the vice stand turns out
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bulletpruf
Well-known member
Umm...here's 700+ used vises in Germany....http://www.ebay.de/sch/i.html?_from...=nc&LH_ItemCondition=4&_trksid=p2045573.m1684 - I'm sure a lot of them will ship to the U.S.
Dollar has been doing pretty good against the euro and the British pound has taken a huge hit since Brexit, so prices are quite reasonable. I scored a nice Paramo last week on eBay.co.uk and shipping from UK to Italy was quite reasonable. Can't be that much worse to the U.S.
On a related note, I'm actually headed to Croatia today for several days of vacation. Plan to do some hunting for vintage tools while the girls lay on the beach. Searching their version of Craigslist for vises and anvils; plenty of anvils (eastern European style) but so far not much in the way of vintage vises.
Ciao,
Scott
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honza.vosalik
Well-known member
Thinking about picking this up for $100. Pipe jaws are missing
Well, I picked up the C0 this morning. The stand is nice, but I don't need it, so will be for sale. The vise is in good shape, but the front cap is missing...any clue where to get it?
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va.grouseman
Well-known member
Bulletpruf, I checked the EBay link and only 47 0f those German vises were posted on my end, so I'm missing a few, give or take 650 or so.
EDIT---I do know of one little German swivel head that is coming across the pond.---But anything can happen between there and here, so we will see.
EDIT---I do know of one little German swivel head that is coming across the pond.---But anything can happen between there and here, so we will see.
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You mean the dust cover on the end?
Double check, but I think the caps Bcom is having made should fit:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=336267&highlight=wilton