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What is going on with S-K Tools?

Hiball

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I find it incomprehensible that SK workers (or anyone else for that matter) think they are owed health care!

Nobody pays for my healthcare. I pay for my own. And I'm not walking around with a placard, sitting on my thumbs, boo-hooing to the media, making someone out to be a villain, because they're not paying my health care bills for me.

I pay my own health care, and I do not consider myself to be a victim because of it.

I guess that makes me stranger than a $3 bill in today's USA where everybody has their hand in someone else's pocket.

Man guys... these employees still pay a portion of there healthcare as do most people who have jobs, Just because you pay for your healthcare doesnt mean that your employer isnt kicking in a portion also. The ONLY people who pay 100% of there health care premium are "normally" self employed, People who dont work enough to get coverage or there employer doesnt provide any. I found this article interesting and there may be some truth to it as it relates to this case.

"With the promise on the horizon of a federal government health "option" selling health coverage at subsidized rates to people who have no health insurance through their place of work, I look for many more small businesses with union shops to shed health coverage for workers as union contracts expire in the coming months, in the hope that the federal program will pick up that portion of their operating costs. and put the difference into owners' pockets as profit. While Congressional and Obama administration proponents of health reform legislation with a "public option" continue to insist that the government plan is required to extend coverage to 45 million citizens who don't have health insurance now, opponents have argued that inclusion of a "public option" will force many workers who do have company provided health coverage into the ranks of the uninsured, driving the projected costs to taxpayers well above the currently predicted $900 billion."
 
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krusty the clown

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I guess that makes me stranger than a $3 bill in today's USA where everybody has their hand in someone else's pocket.


that hand is NOT in someone else's pocket..........that hand is outstretched on friday acepting the wages and benefits he has earned. it is part of his paycheck.
 

Hiball

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And I'm not walking around with a placard, sitting on my thumbs, boo-hooing to the media, making someone out to be a villain, because they're not paying my health care bills for me

.

As i stated earlier how would you feel if you was in there shoes and were provided health care, in which you paid for out of your check and they just decided to drop your health care, Didnt tell you and waited for you to find out on your own? I have no affiliation with these people but they have not had a pay raise in 6 years, working without a contract since Feb and have been unable to negotiate with the company because they soley want 20% pay cut and "0" healthcare coverage. It doesnt sound like to me they have been fleecing there company over the years, even when the economy was better. With what the company is offering would put the employees of SK tool would be making Mininum wage if they had to Pay 100 percent of there current Healthcare and the 20% pay cut. How much does a set of Sk full polish wrenches cost? I bet snap on employees dont make mininum wage...
 

sk farmer

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wow, i go out to work for a couple hours and get rained out. i come back and all **** hit the fan. i picked the wrong name i guess. first to handy manny, sorry i misread your post and accused you of saying something. second, lots of stuff in sears made by sk, it just says c-man. now on to hiball. i am damn sure that even if sk made money last year they are not making money this year and mostly either will not or will be out of business as we know it. i am not arguing just stating the obvioous. lots of places made money last year and are either not or gone now. to everyone else, lets keep this civil. it is very interesting and we may even get something out of this but if it is locked it is done. i am sure i missed something else but i think about 2 pages have been posted since i last read. wow!!!!!
 

Bolster

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I got y'all beat ... my healthcare plan is paid for by the U.S. Government. :D

Which is to say, it's being paid for by me. Thank you for your service, and you're welcome for the small amount I have contributed toward your health care!
 
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Hiball

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now on to hiball. i am damn sure that even if sk made money last year they are not making money this year and mostly either will not or will be out of business as we know it. i am not arguing just stating the obvioous. lots of places made money last year and are either not or gone now. to everyone else, lets keep this civil. it is very interesting and we may even get something out of this but if it is locked it is done. i am sure i missed something else but i think about 2 pages have been posted since i last read. wow!!!!!

Reminds me off State Farm insurance story, Ive been insured thru them for close to 17 years house, automobile and my rates have always stayed fairly consistant, rising a little every year. Now the year 2000 or 01 cant remember but we had a bad ice storm hit Missouri and there was tons of damage to houses, cars etc... Well i get my bill and i see that my annual rate has jumped like 60% and im like WTF so i call state farm and right away the lady starts in about how the state of missouri pays for all its insurance claims with out help from outside offices and "Mr. Coil you know we had that bad ice storm and it costs us alot of money" so i simply asked her what did you do with all the money from the previous years... ... Ah... ah was her response.
 

Merkava_4

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Now it's my turn to make a controversial statement: :spit:

I'm thinking SK tools aren't worth fussing over ... they've had a lot of quality control issues and their combination wrenches are hideous.

**runs for cover**
 

krusty the clown

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Now it's my turn to make a controversial statement: :spit:

I'm thinking SK tools aren't worth fussing over ... they've had a lot of quality control issues and their combination wrenches are hideous.

**runs for cover**

while i agree, i hate to see another US mfr lost. it's not for me to say what others should buy.........unless they ask me :bounce:
 

sk farmer

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Reminds me off State Farm insurance story, Ive been insured thru them for close to 17 years house, automobile and my rates have always stayed fairly consistant, rising a little every year. Now the year 2000 or 01 cant remember but we had a bad ice storm hit Missouri and there was tons of damage to houses, cars etc... Well i get my bill and i see that my annual rate has jumped like 60% and im like WTF so i call state farm and right away the lady starts in about how the state of missouri pays for all its insurance claims with out help from outside offices and "Mr. Coil you know we had that bad ice storm and it costs us alot of money" so i simply asked her what did you do with all the money from the previous years... ... Ah... ah was her response.
lets talk apples. i understand your insurance woes, but sk as it is now is a new company bought with someones cash from facom. same name, same product, differant company. sk has had many names and owners over the years. i do not know and neither do you who's pocket is full of cash. if i were to guess it is facom and they are out of the picture. noone is making monthly payments to sk like an insurance company so they have no steady source of income. my guess is people paid their insurance and skipped tool purchases. striking employees plus ruined reputation plus warehouse full of tools worth pennies on the dollar equals not many assets for a new company. not talking any politics here nor union bashing just simple truths in life.
 

krusty the clown

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lets talk apples. i understand your insurance woes, but sk as it is now is a new company bought with someones cash from facom. same name, same product, differant company. sk has had many names and owners over the years. i do not know and neither do you who's pocket is full of cash. if i were to guess it is facom and they are out of the picture. noone is making monthly payments to sk like an insurance company so they have no steady source of income. my guess is people paid their insurance and skipped tool purchases. striking employees plus ruined reputation plus warehouse full of tools worth pennies on the dollar equals not many assets for a new company. not talking any politics here nor union bashing just simple truths in life.

i think his comments were more toward sk's problems with the insurance company, not with the union.
 

sk farmer

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Now it's my turn to make a controversial statement: :spit:

I'm thinking SK tools aren't worth fussing over ... they've had a lot of quality control issues and their combination wrenches are hideous.

**runs for cover**

sounds a lot like snap-on and craftsman if we are going down that road.
 

Hiball

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striking employees plus ruined reputation plus warehouse full of tools worth pennies on the dollar equals not many assets for a new company. not talking any politics here nor union bashing just simple truths in life.

Sometimes a company is only as good as its employees, If they cant pay someone more than 10 bucks and no benefits to assemble and build there tools i feel sorry for them and doubt they will be around much longer.
 

paramudduck

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OK Company paying what it pays because the union for the past 7 years agreed to it.

Previous strike and discontented workers doing poor products in Parma already had the company on the ropes.

New union leaders in Illinois trying to show their muscle will put the company out of business.

Handy Manny Dad worked for unions all of his life. The insurance was always though the union. Paid by the deductions from his pay checks with a kick in from the company. None of the companies he worked union for furnished the insurance. It was either ALF-CIO or Teamsters.
 

BackTracker

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i agree. after 7 month of trying to reach a deal they probably have no hope of saving thier jobs anyway. i suspect this may be the company using them as scapegoats for moving production offshore.

I was just thinking that.... assuming all the info in the thread is correct, thats what it looks like.
 

Bolster

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Well I checked back in to see who's "winning" this thread. On an internet forum, about all you can do is count posts, so this is what I have so far:

Merkava - 10 posts
SK - 14 posts
Hiball - 13 posts
Krusty - 21 posts, the clear winner! Wow, Krusty, you sure got a lot of time at the podium on this one. Take a bow! That's quite a filibuster. Even though I do not share your pro-union sympathies, I can’t help but admire your tireless computer advocacy on their behalf!
 
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sk farmer

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bolster, i have you in at 4. if we run this another day you can get up there to. i am not getting krusty as much pro union as i am pro common sense and reason, he has the ability to express his opinion without being an a--. that my freinds is a trait i admire and wish i had as much of. i may not agree with everything he say but you can understand where he is coming from. some of those other thoughts on this, well,,,,,,,,,,,,,better left unsaid.
 

BB26

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Generally healthcare benefits are negotiated by the union in large discounts then the employer pays a portion and the company picks up the rest, to discontinue a employers healthcare without prior knowledge is unlawful and just plain bad.

It may be just plain bad to discontinue insurance coverage, but not unlawful. With an expired contract, SK is only required to follow state and federal employment/wage & hour laws. Thus, they can discontinue every benefit that they offer and pay every employee state minimum wage. Like it or not, this is the truth.

This whole situation is awful for both sides. Employees are trying to maintain insurance, retirement and livable wages, while SK is trying to turn a profit. It appears that these things cannot exist simultaneously right now within SK. Something has got to give, so I guess we will wait and see what happens.

And Merk, QC has been suspect lately, but I like SKs combo wrenches. I'm sure that I am not alone here.
 
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bowtie3

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snap on tools are union made. i'm not sure about the others. i did find that enderes is union as well. i would doubt that any stanley or danaher plants are union since they have closed plants in the industrial belt and moved them to right to work states.


The Snap-on plant in Elizabethton, TN (makes ratchets, wrenches etc.) is NOT union. I know people that work there and has worked there in the past. That plant has never been union and I predict never will be, otherwise they will shut it down and go somewhere else. They had a plant about 20 miles from this one that was union (made screwdrivers and pry bars) and it has been shut down for around five years. They are phasing out union shops all over the country. If you work for Snap-on and you are a union member you better be looking for a job, cause your gonna need it.
 

olds88

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The Snap-on plant in Elizabethton, TN (makes ratchets, wrenches etc.) is NOT union. I know people that work there and has worked there in the past. That plant has never been union and I predict never will be, otherwise they will shut it down and go somewhere else. They had a plant about 20 miles from this one that was union (made screwdrivers and pry bars) and it has been shut down for around five years. They are phasing out union shops all over the country. If you work for Snap-on and you are a union member you better be looking for a job, cause your gonna need it.

I can't argue one way or the other, however I trust that Snap-on compensates its employees very fairly.
 

bowtie3

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I can't argue one way or the other, however I trust that Snap-on compensates its employees very fairly.

I'm not sure how much they make, but I consider anything fair if the employee agrees to come to work for it. I would'nt go to work a co. if I didn't think it was fair.
 

Hiball

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It may be just plain bad to discontinue insurance coverage but certainly not unlawful. With an expired contract, SK is only required to follow state and federal employment/wage & hour laws. Thus, they can discontinue every benefit that they offer and pay every employee state minimum wage. Like it or not, this is the truth.

It actually is against the law:

If found in violation of the law, the company would be
required "to restore the status quo" as it was before
the violation and would have to bargain with the union
in good faith, said a board spokeswoman.

When you fail to negotiate a new contract, you have to abide by the previous contract till a new contract can be negotiated. Now there is loopholes where the company or the union can give notice to cancel benefits etc but there is certain timelimits that have to be followed. The National Labor Relation board has already spoke on this matter and noted the unjustly decision of Sk halt benefits with "NO" given notice and now they have intervened to try and get the 2 parties together. If Sk loses the lawsuit and there is a very good chance they will, they will legally have to compensate all employees for all out of pocket expenses relating to healtcare costs.

The above information was from a fellow related Teamster and they are very confident that these "french" owners of SK will have to pay eventually.
 

old salvage

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I hope this has a happy ending but as others have said, it probably wont.:(
Sorry if someone already posted this..
 
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BB26

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It actually is against the law:

If found in violation of the law, the company would be
required "to restore the status quo" as it was before
the violation and would have to bargain with the union
in good faith, said a board spokeswoman.

When you fail to negotiate a new contract, you have to abide by the previous contract till a new contract can be negotiated. Now there is loopholes where the company or the union can give notice to cancel benefits etc but there is certain timelimits that have to be followed. The National Labor Relation board has already spoke on this matter and noted the unjustly decision of Sk halt benefits with "NO" given notice and now they have intervened to try and get the 2 parties together. If Sk loses the lawsuit and there is a very good chance they will, they will legally have to compensate all employees for all out of pocket expenses relating to healtcare costs.

The above information was from a fellow related Teamster and they are very confident that these "french" owners of SK will have to pay eventually.

SK would only be required to restore status quo if they are found guilty of not bargaining in good faith, which is a separate issue. It is customary to abide by the expired contract, but the company is by no means required to do so. Period.

To explain this a little further, the union would need to show that SK purposely strung along the negotiations past the expiration so that they could then take away benefits, wages, etc. In other words, they need to show SK never intended to come to an agreement.

The union may end up nailing SK on not bargaining in good faith, which would result in restoring status quo.
 
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Merkava_4

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The above information was from a fellow related Teamster and they are very confident that these "french" owners of SK will have to pay eventually.

You mean to tell me that SK is being run by a couple of French dudes? Hell, that explains everything. :spit:
 

philw

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I don't think anyone can have a clear understanding without knowing SK's true financial status and we are never going to know that.

Maybe the owners want that new Ferrari and don't want to deal or are using this as an excuse to move labor overseas.

Maybe they are really in severe financial problems and have no options.

If they are really in trouble then a good idea would be to share the financial info with the union and then try to compromise. If the union understands that they are in severe financial difficulty then maybe they can salvage something.

The gov't isn't going to bail out SK. If they go bankrupt there will be 0 jobs.

To many ifs........
Like I said before, I hope they get it fixed.
 

Hiball

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SK would only be required to restore status quo if they are found guilty of not bargaining in good faith, which is a separate issue. It is customary to abide by the expired contract, but the company is by no means required to do so. Period.

Well i work for the Railroad and fellow member of the Brotherhood of locomotive and Trainmen and we Merged with the teamsters after a attempt of nasty takeover by the UTU and i know from Personal experience that at least in the Transportation department that When you fail to negotiate a new contract the company MUST abide by the past contract and it is Illegal not to without proper channels being followed and those channels flow right thru labor relations. My Intel is telling me that Labor relations isnt too found of being stepped on and if Sk and the union dont get together quick there will be unfair labor charges brought against them.
 

BB26

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Well i work for the Railroad and fellow member of the Brotherhood of locomotive and Trainmen and we Merged with the teamsters after a attempt of nasty takeover by the UTU and i know from Personal experience that at least in the Transportation department that When you fail to negotiate a new contract the company MUST abide by the past contract and it is Illegal not to without proper channels being followed and those channels flow right thru labor relations. My Intel is telling me that Labor relations isnt too found of being stepped on and if Sk and the union dont get together quick there will be unfair labor charges brought against them.

Read my post again, I added further explaination. I work in Human Resources for a large company with 13 union contracts. I deal with these issues on a daily basis and it is my job to know them very well.
 

Fedwrench

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No one but Danaher and Stanley would really win if SK closes its doors. Aside from the SK workers, there are also many independent tool truck dealers that hawk SK as their primary line that may be starting to feel the pinch of inventory drying up. Factor in the techs that use SK as an alternative to the truck brands, votech students with their school kits, industrial users, and even government workers will feel the dominoe affect of SK's demise. I hope that SK can pull through this but, the odds seem stacked against them. I wish them the best. I've had SK tools many years and will continue to pick them up as needed.:beer:
 

Hiball

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The union may end up nailing SK on not bargaining in good faith, which would result in restoring status quo.

Like i said the trial between National Labor Relations Board and Sk was suppost to happen on the 2nd of Sept, Per my friend it didnt happen till the 3rd and Labor relations ruled that it was indeed a ULP (Unfair Labor Practice). I expect that is why Labor relations is already mediating between the 2 parties. It normally takes longer than 3 weeks to get a case mediated and i suspect this is to try and convince the 2 parties to negotiate and unofficially inform Sk of there ruling. I hope everything works out between the 2 but from what scuttlebut ive read the company wants nothing more than 8 bucks a hour and NO benefits for its 75 employees, some whom have worked 30 plus years.
 

BB26

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Like i said the trial between National Labor Relations Board and Sk was suppost to happen on the 2nd of Sept, Per my friend it didnt happen till the 3rd and Labor relations ruled that it was indeed a ULP (Unfair Labor Practice). I expect that is why Labor relations is already mediating between the 2 parties. It normally takes longer than 3 weeks to get a case mediated and i suspect this is to try and convince the 2 parties to negotiate and unofficially inform Sk of there ruling. I hope everything works out between the 2 but from what scuttlebut ive read the company wants nothing more than 8 bucks a hour and NO benefits for its 75 employees, some whom have worked 30 plus years.

The ULP results from SK not bargaining in good faith. It doesn't result from SK not following an expired contract or taking away benefits specified in an expired contract.

Like any other expired contract, an expired union contract is null and void and does not have to be followed UNLESS SK has intentionally caused the contract to expire in order to take things away from the union members.

Most employers choose to continue following an expired contract to avoid unpopularity and union backlash. And of course to avoid the risk of being accused/found guilty of not bargaining in good faith. From the outside, it appears as though SK will lose this battle.
 
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Hiball

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The ULP results from SK not bargaining in good faith. It doesn't result from SK not following an expired contract or taking away benefits.

Like any other expired contract, an expired union contract is null and void and does not have to be followed UNLESS SK has intentionally caused the contract to expire in order to take things away from the union members.

Most employers choose to continue following an expired contract to avoid unpopularity and union backlash. And of course to avoid the risk of being accused/found guilty of not bargaining in good faith. From the outside, it appears as though SK will lose this battle.

The ULP is because the company failed to give notice on terminating there health insurance and Pension benefits. That information is readily available on the web, the outcome is per a friend of my local chairman and has not been made public yet. Geez i worked 3 years without a contract when i was a conductor because the union and company couldnt get together, but i also got paid backpay for the 3 years. Anyways i suppose something whether it be good or bad will happen rather quickly, once the goobers at LR get involved it usually speeds up the process.
 
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nissan_crawler

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Now it's my turn to make a controversial statement: :spit:

I'm thinking SK tools aren't worth fussing over ... they've had a lot of quality control issues and their combination wrenches are hideous.

**runs for cover**

haha:thumbup:

It actually is against the law:

If found in violation of the law, the company would be
required "to restore the status quo" as it was before
the violation and would have to bargain with the union
in good faith, said a board spokeswoman.

When you fail to negotiate a new contract, you have to abide by the previous contract till a new contract can be negotiated. Now there is loopholes where the company or the union can give notice to cancel benefits etc but there is certain timelimits that have to be followed. The National Labor Relation board has already spoke on this matter and noted the unjustly decision of Sk halt benefits with "NO" given notice and now they have intervened to try and get the 2 parties together. If Sk loses the lawsuit and there is a very good chance they will, they will legally have to compensate all employees for all out of pocket expenses relating to healtcare costs.

The above information was from a fellow related Teamster and they are very confident that these "french" owners of SK will have to pay eventually.

Once our contract is up, it's up. there is no following the old one.

That being said, the national labor relations board is crooked as hell, I would be very surprised if they sided against a union.
 
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