Delawaredave
Member
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2011
- Messages
- 5
Sears selling Craftsman brand ?
- Thread starter Delawaredave
- Start date
Strouty
Well-known member
LOL, the last true asset they own. At least Eddie got the real estate.
btdobie
Well-known member
Anyone with half a brain who has spent time in Sears can see easily why it is failing. Ofcourse the executives who run the place have no idea because they never shop at Sears. They have the potential to be profitable due to the value of some of their holdings such as Craftsman and Kenmore, but it's like they have simply given up or don't care.
btdobie
Well-known member
I think there is still value in Craftsman. It would be easier to rebuild that brand and bring it back to the USA than to build a new brand from scratch because the name is so well known.
joe_padavano
Well-known member
"Expand distribution" is not the same as selling off the brand. The article is confusing in this respect. I can see the advantage to selling the brand through more channels, but selling it off is just short-term gain as part of a going-out-of-business plan.
eastbaysubaru
Well-known member
They do but they don't have the extensive floor space that your typical Sears has to dedicate towards just Craftsman tools. That's a big issue as I'll often go to Sears to pick up one tool and leave with a lot more
-Brian
matty d
Well-known member
Thats going to ****. Selfishly speaking, I was really into scoring deals on tools by accumulating Sears points and looking forward for the next sales on Sears outlet items. Hope it doesnt end too soon...
pgray007
Well-known member
Like most here I grew up with Craftsman and own a bunch of their stuff. What's the "new" craftsman, assuming their quality continues to deteriorate?
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vavet
Well-known member
I went into Sears a few weeks ago ready to buy an axe. I was actually on my way out, thinking they didn't sell axes any more because they weren't near the rest of the lawn and outdoor tools. I noticed them near the tents. I selected one, and noticed the sticker said "limited lifetime warranty." I waited my turn for the cashier and finally asked her what that was, compared to the traditional craftsman warranty. She called someone else over and they finally decided they thought it meant it was replaceable, but only if I had my receipt.
Yeah...not gonna happen. I'll go back to had or Lowes. Thanks.
Yeah...not gonna happen. I'll go back to had or Lowes. Thanks.
It's the American way.
Executives and owners, will milk Sears, for all it is worth, then bail out with a golden parachute. Short term shareholders, will hope for short-term gains, then bail.
Employees will show up for work, as long as they get a paycheck.
It will eventually go ****-up and a bankruptcy, will leave taxpayers and unwary shareholders, holding the bag.
Example of financial hocus-pocus.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/sears-t...rties-on-real-estate-joint-venture-1427885417
Driving down nearly any street in America and seeing most homes, that do not have vinyl siding, it seem hard to buy in, that selling house paint, will be the recipe that helps save Sears.
Craftsman brand name will become the same as going to Lowes and seeing "Troy-Bilt" on some crappy $80 string trimmer.
There is already a shortage of factory workers in the US. Not sure why any successful company, would want to bring manufacturing back.
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
I did hear on the news the other day that Sears is getting away from clothing and gearing more towards home remodeling. In doing that, they brought back, or are bringing back their line of paints. I don't see them getting rid of Craftsman, but I do see them possibly going to China for more items. By the way the report sounded to me, and again, this is the way I took it, is that they are going to be more like a Lowes or Home Depot. They are going to keep their appliance line. And if they get rid of their clothing line, then all that is really left is the jewelry line. And if they get rid of that, all they will be missing is lumber, and they would be the next box store.
Almost sound like Sears, trying to compete against Amazon, in the mail order business.
Fruitless.
Hawk
Well-known member
Lol Sears was always the first Amazon and the first Wal-Mart. Mail order catalogs were the true start of the business. They also had what we call brick and mortar stores back in the early days, but the most of Sears, Roebuck and company was dedicated to mail order for the growing rural market. One of the main causes of Sears demise will be that the rural mail order business has been reduced and handled better by Amazon. There has never been a product made by Sears, Craftsman or any other name. Sears has always had product made at the lowest cost, but also at the best quality available at the price point wanted. (sound familiar) Yes it's most redeeming point was the attempt to maintain quality and American manufacturing when possible.
REDONE
Active member
Well, I hope craftsman brings it's hand tools back to the US. There's no shortage of factory workers in the US, they just want wages that keep up with the cost of living. I know, I work in a factory. The problem is that China uses slave labor for manufacturing (literally, you go to prison for not being communist enough and then labor without compensation) and durables manufacturing can't compete with that. We still manufacture and export the majority of some industries (heavy equipment, commercial welding, specialized materials, etc) because nobody else can hold the standards.
But back to Craftsman, I did just pick up a new 706 (waterloo) Craftsman chest and roller "Made in the USA with US and global materials" on closeout. I checked it out and all the sheetmetal is US sheetmetal, cut, braked, painted and assembled in MO. The sliders are from Taiwan and the casters and lid lifters are from China.
At the same time I noticed all the Craftsman nut and screwdrivers that just a few months ago were marked with the "WF" designation in the PN (meaning they were made in the US by Western Forge in Colorado Springs) now have an "AF" designation, are made in China, are far crummier in quality (bubbles in the butyl handles and flashing under the chrome) but cost the same.
It's frustraiting, but at least they're not doing what DeWalt is. DeWalt is slapping "Made is USA with US and Global materials!" on all their over priced Chinese tools. I opened the $699 combo box with that label at HD. The thing made in the US was JUST the drill body itself. Every other tool in the set was made in China or Mexico, and the jacobs chuck on the "made in USA" drill was made in Germany, which is acceptable, but still, that's a whole lot of "global", heck it's a whole lot of "made in China" for it to carry that "USA" label and "USA" pricetag.
I just wish there was a brand you could trust to be the value you expect, that you can walk into the store, hand over your money and know you got the quality you paid for, free from the stains of slave labor. I wish Craftsman was still the Craftsman my dad bought. You can't walk into a store and get a USA made 9/16" combo any more. Not a Husky, not a Kobalt, not a Craftsman, not a K-D, nothing. Nobody stocks Williams, Armstrong or S-K (and watch out with your protos, some of those are missing the "USA" stamp now too). You have to order it off the internet and wait three days. I think that's the real thing I miss about Craftsman.
Sorry my first post is a non-introduction flammable topic. I joined to see pics of other peoples garage renovations (can't see pics if you don't sign up) and stumbled into this area.
But back to Craftsman, I did just pick up a new 706 (waterloo) Craftsman chest and roller "Made in the USA with US and global materials" on closeout. I checked it out and all the sheetmetal is US sheetmetal, cut, braked, painted and assembled in MO. The sliders are from Taiwan and the casters and lid lifters are from China.
At the same time I noticed all the Craftsman nut and screwdrivers that just a few months ago were marked with the "WF" designation in the PN (meaning they were made in the US by Western Forge in Colorado Springs) now have an "AF" designation, are made in China, are far crummier in quality (bubbles in the butyl handles and flashing under the chrome) but cost the same.
It's frustraiting, but at least they're not doing what DeWalt is. DeWalt is slapping "Made is USA with US and Global materials!" on all their over priced Chinese tools. I opened the $699 combo box with that label at HD. The thing made in the US was JUST the drill body itself. Every other tool in the set was made in China or Mexico, and the jacobs chuck on the "made in USA" drill was made in Germany, which is acceptable, but still, that's a whole lot of "global", heck it's a whole lot of "made in China" for it to carry that "USA" label and "USA" pricetag.
I just wish there was a brand you could trust to be the value you expect, that you can walk into the store, hand over your money and know you got the quality you paid for, free from the stains of slave labor. I wish Craftsman was still the Craftsman my dad bought. You can't walk into a store and get a USA made 9/16" combo any more. Not a Husky, not a Kobalt, not a Craftsman, not a K-D, nothing. Nobody stocks Williams, Armstrong or S-K (and watch out with your protos, some of those are missing the "USA" stamp now too). You have to order it off the internet and wait three days. I think that's the real thing I miss about Craftsman.
Sorry my first post is a non-introduction flammable topic. I joined to see pics of other peoples garage renovations (can't see pics if you don't sign up) and stumbled into this area.
Hawk
Well-known member
Redone, I understand your frustrations, but you will probably not see Craftsman return in total, if at all, to the days of old. The prices would be too high if they were made in the USA. And I know I will be flamed for that statement, but for the tools to return, first you have to have manufacturing here and, I may be wrong, but there are not enough USA tool-making companies to supply Sears with the diverse stock that they had once. And definitely not at a price that Sears consumers will pay. The members on this board, for the most part pay more for what they perceive as quality.
Kevin54
MEMBER EMERITUS
REDONE.....first off, Welcome to Garage Journal. Glad to have you aboard.
As far as Made in the U.S. labels on products......it's what sells. Most people don't read everything. They only read the key ingredients. And when "Made in the U.S." stands out, that's all they see. They don't see the part "with global components". And it's a damn shame that companies have to resort to those tactics to sell a product. Myself, along with millions of others are sick and tired of China made products. Then when a few companies started to actually start making products here in the United States, other companies saw how well those products sold, so they try to camouflage their products with MADE IN THE USA with global components.
And I don't want to get into the political side of things, but hopefully with the change of regime before long, some of that will change. I'm old enough to remember when there was a time that everything was MADE IN JAPAN. My parents, along with everyone else of that generation just pitched a ***** because it seemed nothing was made in the United States anymore. I don't know what year of decade that changed, but I think we slid slyly away from Japan, to Taiwan, and eventually China. I always look at items I buy or items my wife buys, and I am really surprised as to the places that we are now buying from that no doubt uses slave labor to make it, but has United States celebrities, or big name businesses to endorse it. My wife bought me something a few weeks ago (I can't remember what it was) but when I looked at the tag, it was said "Made in VietNam".
We as consumers have no choice but to go with the flow as they say. Everyone ******* about WalMart and all of their Made in China products, but you'll never get enough people together to boycott them, and then you'll never find enough products that are made in the United States to replace the products that are made in China. So we are stuck with what we are fed to eat.
One thing we will NEVER see though are the majority of products made here in the United States. There will always be overseas products that we will have to buy. It's been that way for decades, and will remain that way. All we can hope for though is that a lot of the products come back to the United States.
This is a little off OT but still ties in to what we are talking about.......There was a news article the other day about people getting sick from Strawberry Smoothies from this one particular business here in the United States. I'm not sure whether it was Salmonella, or E. Coli that they were getting. But the strawberries were traced back to the source. The source was that the strawberries were purchased and shipped from Egypt of all places.
Just a few miles from me, we have a major business that deals in raspberries. They make all sorts of products from the raspberries from salsa, to jams, jellies, and so on, and sell them all throughout the United States. They had a big processing factory, warehouse, sales room.......and at a certain time of the year, they held a Raspberry Festival. And lately they got into the wine business. The thing is, they only had a few acres of raspberries for people to pick and buy. Where their main product came from was Brazil.
If you read this article, you will read where they moved from the San Francisco Bay area to the simple country life here in Urbana, Ohio http://www.bbfdirect.com/pc/robert-rothschild-farm And the article reads, or misleads a person to thinking that the product is made right here in Ohio. total ********. And for a while the facility was closed and up for sale, but the product kept coming. It was bought by someone else, and I'm not even sure how much of the product is even made here anymore, or if it is just a warehouse facility.
I know....I ended up getting way off thread from Sears, but it still ties in to Global Manufacturing. One can only hope that a lot of products we consume daily, weekly, yearly, and so on would come back to the United States.......but even if it does, does the United States even have the skilled workers to make a quality product? I worked in a huge business that makes aircraft lighting. Basically, almost every light you see on a commercial plane is made by us, both inside lights and exterior lights. And we are also big into the Avionics of the big birds. Aural warning units, anti-collision systems, and so on. The business was started as Grimes Manufacturing, here in the little Podunk town of Urbana, Ohio. From when it was Grimes, to Midland Ross, and now Honeywell, I have seen the quality of the product go downhill so much it scary. And businesses today does not want older experienced employees. They want younger, cheaper, inexperienced employees to make the product. Reason being.....the younger doesn't get sick as much, less vacation, and we'll train them the way we want to, and we can pay them less, SO WE CAN MAKE MORE MONEY
And like I said, that's not just Honeywell, that is every business in the United States.
All we can do now as consumers is shop around for the best product, with a good price, and then weigh out the two as to whether you want to go cheap and replace it tomorrow, or go a little more on the price and replace it day after tomorrow. But as far as businesses coming back to the United States, and tying the word "quality" in with things.......it will all depend on whether or not we have qualified workers that want to build a quality product, or whether they are there just to get a paycheck.
As far as Made in the U.S. labels on products......it's what sells. Most people don't read everything. They only read the key ingredients. And when "Made in the U.S." stands out, that's all they see. They don't see the part "with global components". And it's a damn shame that companies have to resort to those tactics to sell a product. Myself, along with millions of others are sick and tired of China made products. Then when a few companies started to actually start making products here in the United States, other companies saw how well those products sold, so they try to camouflage their products with MADE IN THE USA with global components.
And I don't want to get into the political side of things, but hopefully with the change of regime before long, some of that will change. I'm old enough to remember when there was a time that everything was MADE IN JAPAN. My parents, along with everyone else of that generation just pitched a ***** because it seemed nothing was made in the United States anymore. I don't know what year of decade that changed, but I think we slid slyly away from Japan, to Taiwan, and eventually China. I always look at items I buy or items my wife buys, and I am really surprised as to the places that we are now buying from that no doubt uses slave labor to make it, but has United States celebrities, or big name businesses to endorse it. My wife bought me something a few weeks ago (I can't remember what it was) but when I looked at the tag, it was said "Made in VietNam".
We as consumers have no choice but to go with the flow as they say. Everyone ******* about WalMart and all of their Made in China products, but you'll never get enough people together to boycott them, and then you'll never find enough products that are made in the United States to replace the products that are made in China. So we are stuck with what we are fed to eat.
One thing we will NEVER see though are the majority of products made here in the United States. There will always be overseas products that we will have to buy. It's been that way for decades, and will remain that way. All we can hope for though is that a lot of the products come back to the United States.
This is a little off OT but still ties in to what we are talking about.......There was a news article the other day about people getting sick from Strawberry Smoothies from this one particular business here in the United States. I'm not sure whether it was Salmonella, or E. Coli that they were getting. But the strawberries were traced back to the source. The source was that the strawberries were purchased and shipped from Egypt of all places.
Just a few miles from me, we have a major business that deals in raspberries. They make all sorts of products from the raspberries from salsa, to jams, jellies, and so on, and sell them all throughout the United States. They had a big processing factory, warehouse, sales room.......and at a certain time of the year, they held a Raspberry Festival. And lately they got into the wine business. The thing is, they only had a few acres of raspberries for people to pick and buy. Where their main product came from was Brazil.
If you read this article, you will read where they moved from the San Francisco Bay area to the simple country life here in Urbana, Ohio http://www.bbfdirect.com/pc/robert-rothschild-farm And the article reads, or misleads a person to thinking that the product is made right here in Ohio. total ********. And for a while the facility was closed and up for sale, but the product kept coming. It was bought by someone else, and I'm not even sure how much of the product is even made here anymore, or if it is just a warehouse facility.
I know....I ended up getting way off thread from Sears, but it still ties in to Global Manufacturing. One can only hope that a lot of products we consume daily, weekly, yearly, and so on would come back to the United States.......but even if it does, does the United States even have the skilled workers to make a quality product? I worked in a huge business that makes aircraft lighting. Basically, almost every light you see on a commercial plane is made by us, both inside lights and exterior lights. And we are also big into the Avionics of the big birds. Aural warning units, anti-collision systems, and so on. The business was started as Grimes Manufacturing, here in the little Podunk town of Urbana, Ohio. From when it was Grimes, to Midland Ross, and now Honeywell, I have seen the quality of the product go downhill so much it scary. And businesses today does not want older experienced employees. They want younger, cheaper, inexperienced employees to make the product. Reason being.....the younger doesn't get sick as much, less vacation, and we'll train them the way we want to, and we can pay them less, SO WE CAN MAKE MORE MONEY
And like I said, that's not just Honeywell, that is every business in the United States. All we can do now as consumers is shop around for the best product, with a good price, and then weigh out the two as to whether you want to go cheap and replace it tomorrow, or go a little more on the price and replace it day after tomorrow.
But as far as businesses coming back to the United States, and tying the word "quality" in with things.......it will all depend on whether or not we have qualified workers that want to build a quality product, or whether they are there just to get a paycheck.General Motors was one of the first automobile manufacturers and was top dog, until Honda and Toyota started eating their lunch.
Manufacturing is not going to come back to America, factories are already having a hard time getting employees, Who are no longer interested in working long hours for mediocre pay.
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Bib Overalls
Well-known member
Once upon a time in America all people wanted was a few good things. A house with hard wood floors, maybe some sterling silver table ware, tools that would stand up to a lifetime of work in the trades, really good stuff.
Today everyone wants the latest thing. **** carpet for a couple of years, then Berber, followed by Formica for floors, junk never intended for the long run. Just about the time it is paid for it is off to the land fill.
While there will always be a market for quality consumer products that market is small. People like we Garage Journalests, who see value in quality a few and far between these days. Why buy a $100 set of Snap-On end wrenches when you can get Kobalts (Lowe's) for $50 or Pittsburgh (Harbor Freight) for $25. The bolts won't know the difference, right?
When someone back then they had pride in it and took care of it. Today people are satisfied with being up to date and covered up with neat stuff. Why buy something that will last a lifetime when it will be out of fashion in a year or two. The interesting thing to me is that while the price point on stuff is important to most buyers the real question is "how much per month."
The American people have become satisfied with trendy junk. Manufactures and retailers have responded by going off shore for the cheapest **** they can get. When I drive by the local Mt Trashmore I wounder how much of the junk in the pile is still being carried on someones Master Card. Now that or citizenry have become addicted to a quality of life based on junk the junk will continue to cross the Pacific in a never ending stream of ever bigger container ships.
The good news is that I am 73 with a bad heart and I expect to be somewhere else when the bottom falls out.
Today everyone wants the latest thing. **** carpet for a couple of years, then Berber, followed by Formica for floors, junk never intended for the long run. Just about the time it is paid for it is off to the land fill.
While there will always be a market for quality consumer products that market is small. People like we Garage Journalests, who see value in quality a few and far between these days. Why buy a $100 set of Snap-On end wrenches when you can get Kobalts (Lowe's) for $50 or Pittsburgh (Harbor Freight) for $25. The bolts won't know the difference, right?
When someone back then they had pride in it and took care of it. Today people are satisfied with being up to date and covered up with neat stuff. Why buy something that will last a lifetime when it will be out of fashion in a year or two. The interesting thing to me is that while the price point on stuff is important to most buyers the real question is "how much per month."
The American people have become satisfied with trendy junk. Manufactures and retailers have responded by going off shore for the cheapest **** they can get. When I drive by the local Mt Trashmore I wounder how much of the junk in the pile is still being carried on someones Master Card. Now that or citizenry have become addicted to a quality of life based on junk the junk will continue to cross the Pacific in a never ending stream of ever bigger container ships.
The good news is that I am 73 with a bad heart and I expect to be somewhere else when the bottom falls out.
four.cycle
Well-known member
Container shipping giant HANJIN (South Korea) can't pay its bills and is dodging creditors. HANJIN handles about 8% of the trans-Pacific shipping between Asia and the US.
Story here: http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hanjin-bankruptcy-orders-20160905-snap-story.html
Container shipping is in trouble. Ships are leaving ports partially laden with empty containers.
The bottom may be beginning to fall already.
Most people don't have money burning a hole in their pocket.
I have a good paying job but I watch my money go away for taxes, The high cost of everything and helping a seemingly lot of people having a difficult time making it on their own.
Personally I don't understand the whole "pride" thing.
I treat my harbor freight tools with the exact same respect as I do my craftsman and my limited number of snap on tools. my "cheap" tools hold up this as well as the "good" ones.
People don't care the difference between American and Chinese made if the savings is $50, which is a half a days pay to a lot of people.
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Rex_A_Lott
Well-known member
I remember when I was a kid, "Made in Japan" meant junk. It took them a while, but they finally turned that around, and today their quality is ok.
I dont remember the year, exactly, but it was big news when Nixon sent Henry Kissinger to China to try to establish some trade agreements. Red China had been closed to us for many years. That was when it started going down hill.
I remember the NAFTA we dont HAFTA slogans too. That terrible sucking sound was a lot of jobs going where the labor was cheapest.
But we gained some things too. Honda, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, VW all make cars in the US now. WE are their cheap labor. No unions, no government health care. Lots of things involved in the "Global Economy" that we dont know, or cant influence.
But it all boils down to every company doesnt mind shitting on its employees to show their shareholders a better bottom line. Greed drives more of your daily life than you want to accept, but its always been that way. Every rich man got that way off the poor mans back.
I need to go clean up all the old mans Craftsman tools, they might be the only gold he left me.
I dont remember the year, exactly, but it was big news when Nixon sent Henry Kissinger to China to try to establish some trade agreements. Red China had been closed to us for many years. That was when it started going down hill.
I remember the NAFTA we dont HAFTA slogans too. That terrible sucking sound was a lot of jobs going where the labor was cheapest.
But we gained some things too. Honda, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, VW all make cars in the US now. WE are their cheap labor. No unions, no government health care. Lots of things involved in the "Global Economy" that we dont know, or cant influence.
But it all boils down to every company doesnt mind shitting on its employees to show their shareholders a better bottom line. Greed drives more of your daily life than you want to accept, but its always been that way. Every rich man got that way off the poor mans back.
I need to go clean up all the old mans Craftsman tools, they might be the only gold he left me.