Ideas to confirm clogged gutter underground drains?

[roc_on_the_rocks]

I bought this 1969 split-level house in Oct/2012. Past owners haven’t maintained it very well and I’m slowly catching up as time and budget allows.

The basement gets some water under very heavy rain, about once or twice a year. Not deep water, but it gets to soak the carpet or a little more. Water comes from multiple directions. It has been raining pretty bad recently here in Southern Indiana and the basement is wet again.

I suspect that at least part of the problem could be clogged gutter underground drains. The house got a new roof in Jul/2012 (another half-*** job), so asphalt from old shingles might have accelerated the clog. Or more likely it has been already clogged way before that.

For the time being, I'm planning to disconnect the underground drains and use corrugated drain lines over the lawn and monitor if the basement stays dry with functional gutter drainage.

Anyway, do you guys have suggestions on how to check for clogged gutter underground drains?

Or should I just assumed these underground drains are clogged for sure?

PS.: One of the pictures shows a red circle marking what I suspect to be the end of the gutter drain (which would be a very poor implementation in my opinion).

Thanks a lot for all help.

 

[jimindm]

I would wonder if that is the end of the spout that is pictured. You would think if that is all of the further it would be a away, why not just run it above ground.

Do you see them back up at the downspouts? Is it sealed so tight that you can not see it? Is it possible the red circle is something like a yard drain, that hooks to the drainage system some how?

In the two examples you show, I would just put some elbows on and a ten foot section of spout, and get it that far away.

 

[Marctrees]

This is a great idea to "seperate" or dissect the problem -

"For the time being, I'm planning to disconnect the underground drains and use corrugated drain lines over the lawn and monitor if the basement stays dry with functional gutter drainage.

Other than that, for the underground, hand operated sewer snake?? Marc

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

I would wonder if that is the end of the spout that is pictured. I wonder that too. You would think if that is all of the further it would be a away, why not just run it above ground. That's what I'm to do, at least as a test.

Do you see them back up at the downspouts? I wonder that too, but I haven't been out there in heavy rain. Is it sealed so tight that you can not see it? Is it possible the red circle is something like a yard drain, that hooks to the drainage system some how? It's possible.

In the two examples you show, I would just put some elbows on and a ten foot section of spout, and get it that far away. Great idea, thank you!

Thank you!

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

This is a great idea to "seperate" or dissect the problem -

"For the time being, I'm planning to disconnect the underground drains and use corrugated drain lines over the lawn and monitor if the basement stays dry with functional gutter drainage."

Other than that, for the underground, hand operated sewer snake?? Marc

I think the over-the-ground drains should be very telling. I feel stupid for not have tried it years ago. I had hired a contract once but he kept pushing that job over and over. Then I was searching for another contractors... until I thought about this.

Thank you!

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Id pour 5 gal bucketfulls of water in till it overflowed. volume to fill and sink rate should let you figure distance and severity of blockage...

I had a friend who poured a slab with a ABS drain, but let some concrete slop get in there and dry. It was totally clogged. After some thought, I got a 4' steel cable, chucked it up in the drill, shoved it down the hole, and ran it till it ground through the concrete.

 

[Marctrees]

Roc- let us know how it turns out, what the problem was. Marc

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

Id pour 5 gal bucketfulls of water in till it overflowed. volume to fill and sink rate should let you figure distance and severity of blockage...

I had a friend who poured a slab with a ABS drain, but let some concrete slop get in there and dry. It was totally clogged. After some thought, I got a 4' steel cable, chucked it up in the drill, shoved it down the hole, and ran it till it ground through the concrete.

That's a great idea. I initially thought about using a garden hose, but the buckets are better idea.

Thank you!

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

Roc- let us know how it turns out, what the problem was. Marc

I'll sure do. I'll buy the material tomorrow.

 

[Marctrees]

So ya, measurable volume buckets, after it hasn't rained for some days.

You can even get your calculator and notepad out, and with some cypherin, estimate where the block is, assuming it's pretty plugged, not passing much.

Something I would do anyway.
Marc

 

[Evilunclegrimace]

How about just finding some one with a camera system for checking drains? My brother has one that runs 150 feet and is only 1 1/2" in diameter.

 

[matt_i]

I hate those things. I have one in my front yard thats clogged & overflowing during rain but not enough to do any damage...yet. It runs under the front sidewalk to ? Guessing some sort of french drain feature. I think my tractor collapsed the ABS as I can feel a dip right there when I cut grass. But my only solution is to get out the spade and start exploring.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

It may be hard to duplicate with a garden hose or buckets of water what a torrential down pour of rain would be like. The drains could be open just enough to allow your "test" pours pass, but not handle a down pour of storm water.... The drain snake idea above is good too. I think your on point to remove the gutter drops and use some cheap green PVC pipes from Lowes to get the water away from the foundation.

It may be just my old eyes but, it appears in the pic your home is suffering from what mine and millions of others suffer from. It should have been built just one more foot higher out of the ground, so the yard could have been graded higher up on the house, than the remaining yard. It doesn't take much water to wet a basement or crawlspace, when it is laying or running towards the foundation. JMO

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

How about just finding some one with a camera system for checking drains? My brother has one that runs 150 feet and is only 1 1/2" in diameter.

It's a great idea. I just don't know how to find someone with one.

Thank you!

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

It may be hard to duplicate with a garden hose or buckets of water what a torrential down pour of rain would be like. I agree! The drains could be open just enough to allow your "test" pours pass, but not handle a down pour of storm water.... The drain snake idea above is good too. I think your on point to remove the gutter drops and use some cheap green PVC pipes from Lowes to get the water away from the foundation. That's my next step.

It may be just my old eyes but, it appears in the pic your home is suffering from what mine and millions of others suffer from. It should have been built just one more foot higher out of the ground, so the yard could have been graded higher up on the house, than the remaining yard. It doesn't take much water to wet a basement or crawlspace, when it is laying or running towards the foundation. JMO

Your eyes are great. The west side of the house (has the A/C condenser) is against a pretty good slope. I sure want to take care of that. I've been trying to find a good contractor, but they are hard to come by in my town (but I'm still searching). Right or wrong, the reason I haven't prioritized addressing that slope is because the water in the basement comes pretty much from all sides. The wall facing that slope doesn't get any more water then the other walls. For the record, the water doesn't seep through the basement wall, it seeps from the joint between floor line and basement walls. I can post pictures if it helps.

Thanks Greg!

 

[HoosierMark]

get yourself one of the rubber drain uncloggers that attach to the end of a hose. Shove it in as far as you can and turn the water on. It will expand to seal the pipe and force water at the same pressure as the incoming water thru the line. I have used these numerous times for unclogging sewer pipes. Big box stores sell them at less the $10. Just get the size for your downspout. If it does not open it, you know your are going to need a power auger or to dig but it is a cheap first start. A simple cheap easy way to start the search.

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

get yourself one of the rubber drain uncloggers that attach to the end of a hose. Shove it in as far as you can and turn the water on. It will expand to seal the pipe and force water at the same pressure as the incoming water thru the line. I have used these numerous times for unclogging sewer pipes. Big box stores sell them at less the $10. Just get the size for your downspout. If it does not open it, you know your are going to need a power auger or to dig but it is a cheap first start. A simple cheap easy way to start the search.

I'm not familiar with that, but I'll take a look.

Thanks Mark!

 

[LB-1911]

Have a shovel & a spade?

When you disconnect from the current system and install your above grade drainage I'm of the opinion that a little digging is going to reveal a great deal.

Good Luck

 

[Ty.]

I have installed many systems like this, and the most important thing to do is to make sure you run your pipe to daylight, french drains work good in theory, but they will always get clogged with junk and over time they will become less and less efficient. you are going to sant to avoid using corrugated pipe as well. because of the ribbed nature of the pipe it is much more prone to clogging

If your going to start from scratch and redo this system I would run everything in sch 40 pvc with drain covers coming off of the gutter instead of running the gutter directly into the drain pipe, this helps keep debris out of the underground pipe, and allows you to run the drain water above ground in the winter so that your underground line does not freeze up in the winter (depending on where you live)

the best thing that we have found for a drain grate is a souix chief garage floor drain. they also work very well for yard drains if you want to move water out of a low spot in your yard.

here is thr drain I was referring to

http://www.siouxchief.com/docs/defa...r-drain---fatmax---sch-40-conn-.pdf?sfvrsn=12

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

I have installed many systems like this, and the most important thing to do is to make sure you run your pipe to daylight, french drains work good in theory, but they will always get clogged with junk and over time they will become less and less efficient. you are going to sant to avoid using corrugated pipe as well. because of the ribbed nature of the pipe it is much more prone to clogging

If your going to start from scratch and redo this system I would run everything in sch 40 pvc with drain covers coming off of the gutter instead of running the gutter directly into the drain pipe, this helps keep debris out of the underground pipe, and allows you to run the drain water above ground in the winter so that your underground line does not freeze up in the winter (depending on where you live)

the best thing that we have found for a drain grate is a souix chief garage floor drain. they also work very well for yard drains if you want to move water out of a low spot in your yard.

here is thr drain I was referring to

http://www.siouxchief.com/docs/defa...r-drain---fatmax---sch-40-conn-.pdf?sfvrsn=12

Ty, I greatly appreciate the detailed information. I'll keep that I mind when I start the underground lines. I'm planning to have the above ground lines for a while though, to better understand the correlation of the likely clogged downspout drains and my occasional wet basement. Thanks for the link too, I like it.

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

Here are additional pictures of the west side of the house. It's a split-level house, the basement starts right below the western wall and doesn't go much beyond where there are two rooflines. Basel on this slope, I'd expect the west side of the basement to be getting much more water, but as puzzling as it is for me, water seeps pretty much from all sides.

Thanks for all the responses!

 

[gregtwojeeps]

When we moved in and after the first few good rains I could see the water laying against the house as the downspouts could not drain away because the house is too low. I dug down and put 3 coats of sealer on and regraded dirt higher around the house as needed. Here is what that I did to all my gutter drops..... No more heavy water entry now in to my crawlspace from the gutters.

 

[Evilunclegrimace]

It's a great idea. I just don't know how to find someone with one.

Thank you!

Try your local plumbing contractor, they don't like to dig up any more underground pipe than they have to

 

[Radix2]

Here are additional pictures of the west side of the house. It's a split-level house, the basement starts right below the western wall and doesn't go much beyond where there are two rooflines. Basel on this slope, I'd expect the west side of the basement to be getting much more water, but as puzzling as it is for me, water seeps pretty much from all sides.

Thanks for all the responses!

There is likely a layer of pea gravel below the basement floor, that will allow the water to travel from wherever it comes in to everywhere else.

You are on the right track - fix the gutter drains and the grading first. With that long hill running into your house, the next step would be to create a swale to catch and route the water around the house. Get a good drop from the walls on every side. It would not have to be a big excavation, just keep the slopes working for you.

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

When we moved in and after the first few good rains I could see the water laying against the house as the downspouts could not drain away because the house is too low. I dug down and put 3 coats of sealer on and regraded dirt higher around the house as needed. Here is what that I did to all my gutter drops..... No more heavy water entry now in to my crawlspace from the gutters.

Really nice work Greg, thanks for sharing it. That's exactly what I should have done long time ago. Long work hours and two herniated discs have prevented me from getting started, but it's time now. I need to find a competent contractor.

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

There is likely a layer of pea gravel below the basement floor, that will allow the water to travel from wherever it comes in to everywhere else.

You are on the right track - fix the gutter drains and the grading first. With that long hill running into your house, the next step would be to create a swale to catch and route the water around the house. Get a good drop from the walls on every side. It would not have to be a big excavation, just keep the slopes working for you.

Radix2, I have always suspected that to be the case. Thanks for the great input.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

Really nice work Greg, thanks for sharing it. That's exactly what I should have done long time ago. Long work hours and two herniated discs have prevented me from getting started, but it's time now. I need to find a competent contractor.

Once you get enough info and a plan together, I would consider hiring a "handyman" service rather than a licensed plumber. I see no need for a much higher paid plumber to do gutter drain/grading work. Gutters generally are not tied in to the city piping anywhere that would require permitting. You can rent a ride on trencher. Call 811 for UG utility searches though before digging ! Good Luck. JMO

 

[LB-1911]

I'll sure do. I'll buy the material tomorrow.

Phase 1 a success?