Another big door thread

[lowrider2]

I'm at the point in my shop construction where I'm getting estimates for a 16' x 12' roll up door. I have enough 2" rigid insulation left over from my hydronics installation that I can insulate the door so I'm getting unisulated prices. I'll cover the insulation with vinyl sheets. I'm planing to do the install myself and I'll probably take more time to fit the door and seals than a commercial installer. Door faces North and prevailing wind so I want it to seal well.

So far I have a Midland CS 24 ($1,261) , Clopay 525 ($1,040) and an OHD 170 series ($1,323) offered. The Clopay is cheaper than the other two and I've heard good and bad about them. I had an OHD door for 18 years in another shop and it worked just fine with I believe one adjustment during that period. I have 2 Wayne Dalton doors in my current shop and they perform very well but are not well insulated. I have no experience or knowledge of the Midland but did find good remarks about them in a search of this site.

Years ago I built a shop door out of 2x6 and T111 and put R19 fiberglass in the door with seals all around and on the astragal. That door functioned like a wall and let in zero cold air no matter what happened outside. Downside was there was no way to open door without pulling pins from the inside and swing the door outward. I'm still thinking about doing that again just to get the insulation value. It was just 2 leafs 8' x 12' and was a lot cheaper than commercial doors and sealed much better. Most of the time I only opened one door panel anyway.

Any thought folks?

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

IMO insulated doors are sturdier than doors that insulation has been added to.

I'm thinking about building doors like you described to separate an area inside my building. What kind of hinges did you use to support a door that size?

 

[BPJOOP93]

Roll up door or standard garage door. Big difference. Do not add insulation to a door. They are set up with the correct springs. A little added weight can really f up the way it operates.

 

[G-ManBart]

IMO insulated doors are sturdier than doors that insulation has been added to.

That was part of the reason I went with insulated doors on the uninsulated side of my barn....just a better door, with metal on both sides, so if I bump it with something it won't tear the heck out of it.

The other part was that I could get the doors in the color I wanted (to match the roof) which wasn't possible with the uninsulated doors.

 

[kbs2244]

You know how to DIY.
Check out "hanger doors" on u-tube for design ideas.

 

[Richard Cranium]

not enough price difference between insulated and non-insulated.

 

[revamped]

Good Luck, I am waiting for Clopay to finish building by 14x12 and 10.5x10. They are 6 weeks out but that is probably because I ordered the R-18 poly filled doors with window sections.

Just FYI, another thing I was not aware of is my 14x12 requires "engineered track" but they cant tell me why. When Clopay worked the quote with HD, they told me they were just doing a 15" radius track. Also, I had extensions for a high lift set up for the 10.5 door so it will clear my lift bay since I have 16ft ceilings.

Another nice option was that the Liftmaster 8500's can be mounted next to eachother with one running opposite so I only need one outlet.

Both doors installed about $6K through HD, the local door company wanted 7.2K

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Found one, this one seems different.

 

[lowrider2]

IMO insulated doors are sturdier than doors that insulation has been added to.

I'm thinking about building doors like you described to separate an area inside my building. What kind of hinges did you use to support a door that size?

If I remember correctly, I used 6 per side, 4" standard door hinges. Once in awhile the pins would work their way out so I tack welded them in place which stopped that nonsense.

I've built two stacking doors out of 1" x 3" x 0.060 rectangle steel for the hanger side of my shop. It's made of ten 4' panels 12' high and will ride in barn door track and have a spring loaded wheel on the bottom to support the panels when they are folded. The panels will get 2" foam insulation and vinyl on each side.

Talked to the Pro desk at HD today and they can deliver an uninsulated 16' x 12' Clopay to the shop in 2 - 3 weeks for $1,052 with all hardware. It has 25 ga steel and bolted, not riveted or welded track and everything for the install except the perforated angle, but with inside sliding bolt locks. Insulated @R 6.8 but with 27 ga metal for $1,309.

A fellow at the desk at the same time said installed the cheapest Clopay 16' x 10' and used construction adhesive to attach 1.5" foil covered foam and it's been holding up just fine for about 10 years. He didn't know what R value the foam was but it seems to do a good job for him but he does get air leaks on windy days around the sides. He heats with wood stove for a 3000 SF shop and has blown in insulation.

 

[gnpenning]

Not enough information to give you a quality answer.

What type of work do you plan to do in your shop?

You mentioned hydronic heat. Which means to me you will be keeping heat on. Is this correct?

First I should say I'm a Midland dealer and was a Clopay dealer.

The CS 24 is a 24 gauge door versus the lighter 25 of Clopay. Midland is very conservative in the ratings of their products.

While you may have the insulation already I think you are better off with factory insulation. If you do go ahead with insulating it yourself get the weight of the backing and insulated panels total. Then when you order your door they can up size the springs accordingly. Much easier to do at the beginning. I don't know if HD would mention that to you.

For what your saying about how your worried about cold transfer I would recommend you go with the ES 2" or even the ES 3". The RSP-TS you can get in flush or raised panel and different colors.

For me with the different manufacture choices I used midland on my own home and will do for my next place as well.

You can PM me with a number if you want to.

 

[lowrider2]

Building and working on airplanes, jeeps, 4 wheelers, motorcycles and the like. Just bought a '57 Willy FC 150 that needs some work. I plan on a 2 post car lift too. Also shoot bows inside in the winter. I run the hydronics in my current shop from Oct thru Apr and keep it at 60F or up to 75F when painting.

 

[gnpenning]

I would recommend a steel backed door then. If you do any grinding or welding and sparks hit the back of a vinyl back door the potential for fire or the insulation just disappearing is higher than a steel back door. Also you you won't have that lip to collect grinding dust or even wood chips, etc that fall on your head when you open the door. Grease cleans up with Simple Green or 409, etc. You can even pressure wash the inside with some judgement.

The RSP-TS and the ES doors have a thermo break between the front and back panels. This will cut down on hot and cold transfer, where a PAN door won't be able to do that. Cold and heat will transfer on the end stiles and where the top and bottom roll in. I have one door that doesn't get used in the winter and snow can pile up against it with no melt. I have radiant as well but with a good thermo break under where the door comes down and the outside slab. It's has a break in 2 spots, this happens to create a double thermo break.
.

What is your ceiling height? If your door goes above the 2 post if the track is close to the ceiling your opener will be out of the way. Many here will tell you to go with the 8500. Your outside the limits of the size of door it can properly handle. Liftmaster makes some other Jackshaft openers that will work as well as trolley openers.

 

[matt_i]

I'm also in the camp of buy an insulated door, especially if you are self-installing. Its going to be more rigid, quieter, its almost like it has spray foam inside (it probably does).

I got a quote for a Garaga which was estimated at $2250, installed, but I got a 2" thick 9x8 Haas for $650, I pickup at the dealer's place. I could not be happier.

I see you mentioned hydronic which means the heat will basically be 'on' 24x7. I'd try for a 3" door as its going to be even better insulated....

 

[lowrider2]

I would recommend a steel backed door then. If you do any grinding or welding and sparks hit the back of a vinyl back door the potential for fire or the insulation just disappearing is higher than a steel back door. Also you you won't have that lip to collect grinding dust or even wood chips, etc that fall on your head when you open the door. Grease cleans up with Simple Green or 409, etc. You can even pressure wash the inside with some judgement.

The RSP-TS and the ES doors have a thermo break between the front and back panels. This will cut down on hot and cold transfer, where a PAN door won't be able to do that. Cold and heat will transfer on the end stiles and where the top and bottom roll in. I have one door that doesn't get used in the winter and snow can pile up against it with no melt. I have radiant as well but with a good thermo break under where the door comes down and the outside slab. It's has a break in 2 spots, this happens to create a double thermo break.
.

What is your ceiling height? If your door goes above the 2 post if the track is close to the ceiling your opener will be out of the way. Many here will tell you to go with the 8500. Your outside the limits of the size of door it can properly handle. Liftmaster makes some other Jackshaft openers that will work as well as trolley openers.

Forgive me but what is RPS-TS and ES doors?

Ceiling is 16' so I have 4' above the door in the up position. Shouldn't be a conflict with opener.

 

[gnpenning]

Forgive me but what is RPS-TS and ES doors?


They are models of Midland doors.

RSP-TS = Raised Steel Panel- Thermo-Steel

ES= Energy Saver.

With that much headroom you can go with a Higher radius track or a high lift track to give you more room above your lift if needed or jacking up a vehicle, using a crane, etc.

 

[lowrider2]

Sorry for the delay but I got sidetracked with OSB on the trusses. That will be done tomorrow and steel roofing arrived so we'll get that up as we can.

Thanks for the thoughts on the 16x12 door. I'm on the verge of making a decision on the door and I'm still thinking of a wooden hinged door made out of 2x6 and insulated with R19 fiberglass. It would be alot cheaper and more insulation for a door I may not use very much anyway....thinking...thinking...thinking.

It is very nice to hit a button or remote and have the door disappear