1950mercury
Well-known member
Why is it a *************? The old Mac ratchet you have pictured ***** in my mind. I had some and sold them
MAC have really dissapointed me, What Happenned?
- Thread starter Scotland Offshore ABZ
- Start date
Why is it a *************? The old Mac ratchet you have pictured ***** in my mind. I had some and sold them
OP
Scotland Offshore ABZ
Well-known member
Thankyou for this! If MAC just told me this I would buy some of their tools, why try amd hide it!!!!
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OP
Scotland Offshore ABZ
Well-known member
It clanks and seems to miss teeth. My Snap-On doesn't. I presume you are a MAC dealer or fan but there is no comparison. The Snap-on and my Matco ratchet destroys this POS.
It is more the feel of it if that makes sense. If you actually read my first post instead of jumping on the troll wagon you would realise this. I use my tools daily in an Industrial Environment and not some hobby type style. I need them to be top quality and for £125 this is a *************. Snap-On would sell me one for the same price whioch actually delivers the goods. You must be a hobby tool man.
Sorry guy, you're either a tool polisher who thinks the clunk of a 36 tooth ratchet means strong, or trolling.
Parabellum
Banned
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2014
- Messages
- 888
I would just buy Proto when are you are 100% certain where its from, if you look on Grainger.com it will tell you where its made. Otherwise buy Snap On, Stahlwille and other german brands. Facom, maybe.
OP
Scotland Offshore ABZ
Well-known member
Nope, nearly though. I am a "Tool Pusher" that apprecites quality over marketing nonsense. I dont give 2 fucks how many teeth the ratchet has but I do get annoyed when I spend USA tool money on Taiwan ****.
lazer50
Well-known member
D S L T R K (auto correct) yes i have hard evidence! The best kind.not what you read or hear.but first hand experience working with guys using the inferior tools on a daily basis! Read my previous posts.i could have been more specific like open end wrench spread on t orqued fastenerslets see i already mentioned allen wrenches,impact sockets pipe wrenches and ratchets woo wee! If the guys replaced those they took them home and either bought off the truck or down the street at the industrial supply and bought armstrong.usa made means something to me! The quality is proven first hand! Taiwan tools have their place! Like i said before some brands are not junk.but what it really boils down to is people dont want to pay for usa made so they justify by any means they can so they dont have to.people do it with everything.ive seen threads on here where they bought the cheapest part for their car it either wore out early or something.well a premium part was available made in usa.if you all dont understand well your either to worried about your wallet or its because you dont have the first hand experience.
Derek420
Banned
It's because Stanley black and Decker bought out Mac look at the expensive Jesse James west coast chopper tools they don't say Mac anywhere on them or USA even on package but are suppose to be Mac don't even look like a Mac ratchet looks identical to my black chrome Stanley ratchetband sockets for 10 times the price. I've seen Mac stuff that says assembled in USA with foreign parts that's just not the same. I hate Stanley I worked at a junk yard and broke plenty my job was taking out motors and trans all day even craftsman held up in my opinion just as good as SO the USA Cm anyways don't know about the Taiwan stuff. I even used chrome cm sockets on SO impact
Farmall450
Well-known member
This, they have multiple lines.
Loscaldazar
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 23, 2013
- Messages
- 2,385
And I bet you have sources ready to defend this statement, right? Manufacturers use the steel they spec. And if a Taiwan manufacturer says they use 316SS, you can bet that is what you're going to get. Some Chinese manufacturers like to skimp on specs and substitute cheaper materials, but that really isn't Taiwan.
You're far from the only person here who has a lot of experience daily working with tools in tough conditions. Far, far, far, far from the only one. There are plenty of plant maintenance techs here. But that was a nice attempt at trying to discount other's experiences with tools to supplant your own (I also enjoy how in one of your later posts in this thread you also imply that anyone who disagrees with you is hard headed while demonstrating that same mentality throughout your posts).
The thing is, we always have a few members like you who openly admit to having little to no personal experience with imported tools, but have an endless number of stories of other people foolish enough to buy "asian ****" and how every single last tool they ever picked up failed. Sure, you buy the cheapest Chinese 100 piece tool set for $5, and you're going to get a lot of junk. But that's a far cry from buying tools made by a reputable manufacturer in Taiwan. Those Taiwan companies care about their reputation and don't want to make **** that gets associated with their brand name. I've got a M7 (designed and made by King Tony Taiwan) mini impact that is smaller, lighter, quieter, and more powerful than the Ingersoll Rand equivalent. That's an impressive feat for a Taiwan manufacturer to beat out the company that is probably the biggest name in pneumatic tools. The M7 hasn't skipped a beat next to my USA assembled IR2235TiMAX (and I use the M7 more than any other impact because of its size and power).
If asian tools were truly that bad, why have so many other professional on this board been able to successfully do their jobs with them? Gearwrench, Carlyle, Toptul, are all brands that professionals have used day in and out on this board and had some great success. Not everything from Taiwan is great, but neither is everything from the USA (Lisle torx bits anyone? Easily the worst torx bits in the world that make HF bit sockets look like Snap On. Proudly made in the USA and absolute junk).
How do people in countries like New Zealand or Australia manage to fix anything then if Asian tools are such junk??? They have two choices for tools in those countries. Pay 1.5 to 2x the price we in the USA pay for Snap On (you think $100 for a TL72 1/4 drive ratchet is a lot, try paying almost $150 for one now, or $300 for a SL80!). Their other option is to buy one of several Taiwan import brands (Toptul, KinChrome, Sidchrom, Kabo, etc) for about what we pay for SK, Wright, or Proto. Guess which brands sell better and what more techs or maintenance personal use? If Taiwan tools were such ****, I think Australia and New Zealand would have collapsed already because they wouldn't be able to repair any of their factories or manufacturing facilities (and actually, Snap On is next to impossible to get in NZ)!
Just remember, Japan used to put out tons of ****. However, they modernized their plants, invested in building quality products over flashy/overly luxurious products. They kicked the USA square in the teeth by building faster, lighter, safer (please don't tell me you're one of those people who think the boats of cars from the 70s and 80s are safer than a car with crumple zones), and longer lasting than what we could build. It took us quite a few years to respond to what Japan was putting out, and probably only in the last decade or so are truly building competitive cars compared to the Japanese again.
Taiwan is following that same route. They used to just push out as much **** as they could, but they've really focused on making quality tools and building their brand reputations.
No one is saying that all tools from Taiwan or China are as good as tools from the USA. There are great tools from Taiwan (a fair amount of them actually), some from china (rarely, but there are a few) and there are also a fair amount of ****** tools made in the USA (lisle torx bits, Bionic wrench, craftsman acetate screwdrivers, spin wrench anyone?) as well as a huge number of fantastic tools from the USA. When you make generalized statements like all tools from the USA are better, or all tools from Asia ****, you completely miss out on the details of those statements and the broad variety of capabilities that each country has.
Also, I would suggest you stay away from hospitals, as a lot of surgical tools are made in Pakistan. Hospitals obviously aren't safe because they don't use USA or German made tools, and we all know nothing of good quality can ever come out of Asia
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Fedwrench
ALLIANCE MEMBER
I don't understand why you don't care for the MAC Axis ratchets. They have become my favorite reach for first ratchets
The ratchet happens to be US made and the 90 tooth action is smooth as silk. Perhaps you just prefer the coarser 30 tooth action on the older ratchets pictured.
MAC still has many US made tools. You just have to look for those three little letters "USA" on the tool. No USA, then it's made elsewhere.
I think MAC has actually gotten better in recent years with the introduction of the Axis ratchets, knuckle saver 2 wrenches, and Duratek screwdrivers.
The ratchet happens to be US made and the 90 tooth action is smooth as silk. Perhaps you just prefer the coarser 30 tooth action on the older ratchets pictured.
MAC still has many US made tools. You just have to look for those three little letters "USA" on the tool. No USA, then it's made elsewhere.
I think MAC has actually gotten better in recent years with the introduction of the Axis ratchets, knuckle saver 2 wrenches, and Duratek screwdrivers.
DSLTRK
Well-known member
Hmm, Ok. I assume your "guys" know how to properly use tools right? It sounds like they can't even remove a lowly a socket cap screw with out their 'inferior Asian tools' violently stripping out, permanently damaging the equipment and bustin' their knuckles?
I don't buy your story, period. Nothing in the market is showing your story even remotely as being true.
I know guys too, many use tools made across the globe day in, day out. There is very little, if any, difference on the amount of time spent on projects or # of repairs done. Here's a fact: 90+% of professional air tools are made in TW or use parts sourced from TW (IR). Where are all the complaints on those? The Aircats and IR guns are some of the top rated guns on the market.
MAC is very careful about their reputation, so is Cornwell, IR and the countless other companies that spec out TW tools. Quality is not the issue, despite what your 'guys' say/do.
I don't understand why you don't care for the MAC Axis ratchets. They have become my favorite reach for first ratchets
The ratchet happens to be US made and the 90 tooth action is smooth as silk. Perhaps you just prefer the coarser 30 tooth action on the older ratchets pictured.
In fairness, I'm not a MAC Axis ratchet fan either, but only because they're not available in QR versions. If they were, I'd have some, without reservation...
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Wakefield
Well-known member
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
He probably thought he was getting USA and as to the ratchet perhaps he got a defective one,as someone said one of the sockets showed special gripping lines that are something like those inside a Wrightgrip open end jaw.
I wonder how he'd react to a Nepros 90 tooth!
DSLTRK
Well-known member
md21722
Well-known member
Their "regular" series is made in Dallas. The Precision Torque series has "PT" at the end of the part number and is the import. I think the OP is equally frustrated that the cost difference between each set was not significant. Based on the price he must have thought he was getting the Made in U.S.A. sockets; if the price was significantly lower he may have clued in to the fact that he was getting import.
gdocktor3
Well-known member
I'd say that about sums it up and honestly, can you blame him? As usual, things got way out of hand with this thread.
With that said, I only own one Mac Taiwan ratchet and it is the 1/4" 72T mini 4" pear head ratchet with qr and I think its bad ***. Compare that to my clanky, old USA made 30T Mac MR5 and it's like aeronautical engineering type tools. http://www.mactools.co.uk/rate-mac-tools-products/14-drive-4-mini-pear-head-ratchet-72-tooth-2
Now, I'll admit, my Expert XL metric DBE ratchet wrenches on the other hand look and feel cheap, but they're the "cheaper" line of Mac tools. However, I've hung on them, yanked, cranked on them, and used the fixed end on backside of impact wrench many times with no issue. They're still going strong. OP - looks can be deceiving. I'm confident any tool with the Mac, Matco, Snap On, etc logo will go the distance and no matter where it's made, will be more than sufficient for most professional mechanics. It's their reputation on the line.
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Wamsutta
Well-known member
Scotland Offshore ABZ, I found your MAC socket set in the catalog:
^ MAC SXDM146BRPT (Taiwan) 3/8'' Drive 6mm-14mm Deep
^ MAC SXDM146TR (USA) 3/8'' Drive 6mm-14mm Deep
You got the "Precision Torque" set with the teeth inside; those are made in Taiwan. There's a USA made version of that set without the teeth inside (shown above). For your future reference, all MAC socket sets (and individual sockets) with an "R" at the end of the part number will be a USA made socket set. The dead give away is the red metal steel tray. Whenever you see a set of sockets on the truck in a red metal steel tray with an "R" and the end of the set's part number, that is a USA made set.
^ MAC SXDM146BRPT (Taiwan) 3/8'' Drive 6mm-14mm Deep
^ MAC SXDM146TR (USA) 3/8'' Drive 6mm-14mm Deep
You got the "Precision Torque" set with the teeth inside; those are made in Taiwan. There's a USA made version of that set without the teeth inside (shown above). For your future reference, all MAC socket sets (and individual sockets) with an "R" at the end of the part number will be a USA made socket set. The dead give away is the red metal steel tray. Whenever you see a set of sockets on the truck in a red metal steel tray with an "R" and the end of the set's part number, that is a USA made set.
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Yeha, Im confused by this thread. is the objection to the teeth in the sockets? those are gripping teeth supposed to be there. hopefully the metal isn't so bad you have this reaction just from fit and finish. I'd say Taiwan has decent metal and some is pretty good if spec is high end.
I'd be sort of pissed to buy something from a EU brand and get Taiwan, if I was say looking for German tools (and pay import prices+eu premium brand price). But now everyone is doing import-substiution, so you need to keep focused on buying the main-line tools. I will say the euro brands and many like snap on at least change the name to a sub-brand, and its kind of shady to sell everything under the higher-end brand name (historically associated with a COO. Facom sells some taiwan stuff but quality is good, the prices aren't outrageous, and the disclosure is reasonably transparent.
Anyways, If you are really not happy I would trade them in and either get the set you really want or just buy something else to not get irate everytime you look at them. It ***** to throw tools away or just keep them around when you don't like them and may not use them.
I'd be sort of pissed to buy something from a EU brand and get Taiwan, if I was say looking for German tools (and pay import prices+eu premium brand price). But now everyone is doing import-substiution, so you need to keep focused on buying the main-line tools. I will say the euro brands and many like snap on at least change the name to a sub-brand, and its kind of shady to sell everything under the higher-end brand name (historically associated with a COO. Facom sells some taiwan stuff but quality is good, the prices aren't outrageous, and the disclosure is reasonably transparent.
Anyways, If you are really not happy I would trade them in and either get the set you really want or just buy something else to not get irate everytime you look at them. It ***** to throw tools away or just keep them around when you don't like them and may not use them.
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Never really had a whole ton of mac items myself but what I did have was always good ol' USA quality. I recently bought a pair of long duckbill pliers only to find that they were very cheap and equal or lesser quality than Harbor Freight I was also very disappointed by the recent decline in quality and I will not be purchasing anything from them anytime soon.
I've noticed a few different occasions in this thread where someone has claimed that Blue Point is Snap On's Taiwan-made line of tools. This is not exactly true.... Blue Point is a brand name that SO uses for tools that are not actually probuced by Snap On. This doesnt mean all BP tools are made in Taiwan and/or China. To this day you can still walk onto a SO truck and find USA produced BP tools. Sure, a lot of the BP stuff is now made overseas now, but not all of it. Remember, SO has been using the BP name for decades..... there was probably a time when all BP tools were made in the USA.
Far from true either. Hydraulic lift equipment, shop stuff like blast cabinets, compressors, parts washers, and tools such as drill bits, damaged fastener removal tools, pullers, and many other items are branded snap-on, and are not made by them.
lazer50
Well-known member
Loscaldazar you blew what i said way out of proportion! I never said once taiwan made tools are **** or junk.i gave examples of the quality differences i seen first hand working with guys using taiwan tools.i used examples of types of tools and their faults.i also dont believe i said every usa made tool was the best.i said across the board that means overall.i do remember saying taiwan made some good tools and named some companies.if i didnt in these i did in a ratchet thread.either way gearwrench makes good tools as does carlyle.to my understanding carlyle is made by the premier taiwan co.koken.i also dont remember saying i have more experience than anyone.i said THE experience meaning particular.so again i never said taiwan tools are junk.you either proof read or took what you wanted out of my posts.so let me simplify it.from my experience there is a noticeable difference in quality in taiwan tools compared to usa made.now so you dont blow it out of proportion again! We didnt use every single usa made tool there is.so that would mean the guys using taiwan tools didnt use every tool made there either.we used alot of various tools on precision machinery.the taiwan tools failed on the various applications.mind you i dont know what company made their tools.regardless the guys that didnt take the truck route would go to the industrial supply co.and buy armstrong,proto,sk etc.so dont twist my posts around to make them sound like something there not.im not speaking from more experience, my experience!
I said BP is "A" name that SO uses for stuff they dont make...... I did NOT say they use the BP name on ALL tools they do not make. And yes, everything I typed in my original post IS true.
md21722
Well-known member
Right. I'm not sure how they decide to brand Snap On or brand Blue Point. I was just looking at spark plug boot pullers and they are branded Blue Point and Made in U.S.A. Sometimes I wonder if the details are in the licensing agreement and what they could work out with their suppliers. I do think Snap On has the best web site and clearly discloses COO. If you look at the Mac website its been a disaster for years, and many things that are available cannot be ordered online. Both Mac and Matco require you to call in for COO information.
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gdocktor3
Well-known member
Lazer50 - Carlyle tools are made by Kabo, not Koken. That's twice today you've misinformed. Say it with me, KABO.
dnschmidt
Well-known member
Scotland Offshore ABZ, I am not a hobby tool man but I do have a hobby. I sell TOPTUL tools here in America and I sell about $12,000 a year worth of them and at prices half of what you pay for them in the UK. I have had only one return (an impact universal joint, a class of tool notorious for being abused) and most of my customers, many of which are on this board, come back for more. It's not surprising the the MAC socket with the more advanced feature (the anti-slip grooves) is made in Taiwan rather than in the USA. Many of Taiwan's best hand tool companies like KABO, which makes most of NAPA's tools, are extremely innovative. The American companies on the other hand haven't done much since Snap-On invented Flank Drive for their sockets and wrenches 30-40 years ago a feature that has gone off of patent and is now used universally. KABO owns the patent on spline drive which everybody licenses from them, and is a brilliant idea, and had groves on their open end wrenches before anybody else (Snap-On, Wright and others) thought of doing that. Most innovation in hand tools today is coming from Taiwan. As an American I'm not particularly happy about that but a fact is a fact.
FOCUS.FREAK
Well-known member
Definitely happy with the sockets I got from you, though I'm sure they'll last a lifetime given the type of use they'll be subjected to in my home garage.
DeliveryGuy
Well-known member
Reading this thread has convinced me to buy only quality domestic tools like Gray Canada Tools, instead of that imported **** like Harbor Freight, Craftsman, and Snap On.
sberry
Banned
What would I have to gain by creating something about Sears. I was disappointed in 80 when I bought the biggest set Sears had, about 3 grand then. I have some earler, bought somne in the early 90's and got about every Sears hand tool they made. Nothing about it has been top quality in decades and it looks like they shipped the same **** die along with the job to China.
As a matter of fact havnt heard of any broken China sockets which was regular for a couple decades or more.
perhaps i missed it in a post but am i the only one who noticed that he said his sockets were made in taiwan and then proceeded to rant about his chinese sockets? then to say i know theyre different countries... as if that made it ok to assume that tools made in taiwan are just as bad as china tools and arent 99% as good as usa tools? this man clearly isnt intelligent enough to allowed to use tools, let alone have opinions on them. as for the axis ratchets... theyre awesome...
tjpavlov
Well-known member
OP, what brought you back to the forum? I thought you gave up on the site.
Ive gotta be honest ive seen inside this ratchet, and im not a fan, i have a cheapy ratchet that use for oil changes its nasty and has no markings on it at all and its inards look the same.
TRUE DAT! **** Brainwashed Garage Rats wont ever learn until their Mentors confirm the mistakes they espoused years back.
How much do you want for the ratchet? PM me if your interested in selling.
camd64
Well-known member
I have owned a bit of MAC tools over the years so here is my take on it. Keep in mind all the tools were from the late 90's till early 00's US made and most has since been sold or traded.
My ratchets, both the pearhead (MR5 style) 1/4 and 1/2 drive. The 1/4 worked fine and never broke but just felt clunky vs. my SO one. The 1/2 broke on me twice (stripped gears) before I finally got pissed and sold it. Funny thing is my Craftsman flex head was able to complete the jobs and I haven't had to put a rebuild kit in that thing to this day.
The sockets (USA) have been great, my impacts saw a ton of use and never had a problem. I used to do a ton of trans. warranty jobs so my impact swivels got the brunt of the work. 3ft. 1/2 to 3/8 extension was always on the cart ready to go.
Wrenches I owned the old 1st gen. Knuckle Savers. The open ends are a bit thicker than my SO's and I never liked the squared off beams. Never broke any but didn't own them that long.
I have other odds and ends like my long handle dykes that the tips broke off and a couple screwdrivers that are holding up just fine. My take on Taiwan is most everything I have from there has been good to excellent quality for the price regardless the brand name on the tool. China for me is typically a no-go. The new Axis ratchets look awesome to me but I still would like to put some wrench time in with one before dropping that kind of coin.
My ratchets, both the pearhead (MR5 style) 1/4 and 1/2 drive. The 1/4 worked fine and never broke but just felt clunky vs. my SO one. The 1/2 broke on me twice (stripped gears) before I finally got pissed and sold it. Funny thing is my Craftsman flex head was able to complete the jobs and I haven't had to put a rebuild kit in that thing to this day.
The sockets (USA) have been great, my impacts saw a ton of use and never had a problem. I used to do a ton of trans. warranty jobs so my impact swivels got the brunt of the work. 3ft. 1/2 to 3/8 extension was always on the cart ready to go.
Wrenches I owned the old 1st gen. Knuckle Savers. The open ends are a bit thicker than my SO's and I never liked the squared off beams. Never broke any but didn't own them that long.
I have other odds and ends like my long handle dykes that the tips broke off and a couple screwdrivers that are holding up just fine. My take on Taiwan is most everything I have from there has been good to excellent quality for the price regardless the brand name on the tool. China for me is typically a no-go. The new Axis ratchets look awesome to me but I still would like to put some wrench time in with one before dropping that kind of coin.
OP
Scotland Offshore ABZ
Well-known member
That to be fair is a fair point I screwed up in regards to the Taiwan/China thing, however I am not that stupid, honestly!