Every Thing You Always Wanted to Know About Electrolytic Rust Removal

[BradGC]

Another disposal method - pour the solution into used cat litter. The used cat litter absorbs the solution, then the litter can be thrown out in the trash. This prevents any concerns about contaminants in the solution. If you have no cat, new cat litter will work. Alternately, obtain a cat, which will provide years of solution disposal litter.

 

[hartek451]

A note about pc power supplies.. older ones, like P3 on back, had most of the current available on the +5V rail, for a 250W usually about 20-25A.. the newer atx style has it up on the +12V rails..

so for a chunk of steel that is only about 2lbs, 20A should be sufficient? or does surface area matter more than mass? would 5V do it?

In looking around the various forums, I haven't found an answer to this..
I have read that this will work for removing 'black oxide' (gun blue) eventually..
but has anyone tried removing 'cold blue' from steel using electrolysys.. cold blue liquid/paste is usually a selenium dioxide solution, but I have also seen copper sulfate in dilute acid products, so I am not sure what the composition of that color on the steel is.
I know acids, etc.. will remove it (and etch the base steel) but I want to be gentle..

I was thinking of just doing an experiment.. polish up a chunk of flat iron, cold blue only part of it (for comparison later), then hook it up and see what happens..

--thnx..

 

[Scimonetti]

I know this is an old thread, but there are a lot of very knowledgable people on here. I am restoring a drill press without a sandblaster and will rely on electrolysis to remove the pain and rust. The only problem is that on the head unit there will be hidden areas under the pulley mount and I don't think I can reach with a scotchbrite pad. Will this be a problem, and will things not in a direct line of sight get cleaned? I would very much appreciate any input I could get. Thanks!

 

[Scimonetti]

I can reach all the areas if I use some pliers for tight spots, but what I guess I'm trying to ask is is the black oxide hard to get off? If I only get off the loose stuff will paint not adhere?

 

[phy6]

Line of sight is preferred. You might get creative with positioning your electrode(s) so you get line of sight in the hard to reach area. I wouldn't worry about the back oxide. It's actually _in_ the grain of the metal, and primer/paint will go over it fine. Just make sure it's dry.

 

[Tomthumb717]

I've read through the thread and just wanted to confirm a few things before i start. The feed from the charger to the part being cleaned has to be above the water line? If cleaning multiple large pieces such as the main body of a vise and the dynamic slide/jaw simultaneously what would be the best way to connect each part to the negative feed? Also, if my 6 amp charger has either 6 or 12 volts which to use?

 

[Coolabah]

I've read through the thread and just wanted to confirm a few things before i start. The feed from the charger to the part being cleaned has to be above the water line? If cleaning multiple large pieces such as the main body of a vise and the dynamic slide/jaw simultaneously what would be the best way to connect each part to the negative feed? Also, if my 6 amp charger has either 6 or 12 volts which to use?

The feed from the charger to the part being cleaned has to be above the water line-Yes, connect it to a piece of wire or particularly the anode end of your clamp can get affected if it is in the solution, and if it is copper then not so good.
what would be the best way to connect each part to the negative feed?- I just use any ferrous wire but with my limited set-up its easier to do one piece at a time
my 6 amp charger has either 6 or 12 volts which to use? my charger is 12/24 and I often crank it up to 24 v - I adjust to suit the part , you need to see some bubbles like in a sparkling soda drink
HTH

 

[Tomthumb717]

thank you for your help

 

[WVBrady]

The feed from the charger to the part being cleaned has to be above the water line-Yes, connect it to a piece of wire or particularly the anode end of your clamp can get affected if it is in the solution, and if it is copper then not so good.
...

Your answer is confusing. From the second entry of this thread: "Next up, you need to connect your power supply to your part and to the anodes. IT IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT to hook the negative terminal to your part and the positive terminal to your sacrificial anode. "

The positive wire to the anode should be above the water line, or it will get eaten up. That is the reason that the anode is called a sacrificial anode; it gets eaten up. The negative wire goes to the part being cleaned and should connect to that part below the water line, otherwise some of the part would not get cleaned.

 

[Coolabah]

Your answer is confusing. From the second entry of this thread: "Next up, you need to connect your power supply to your part and to the anodes. IT IS CRITICALLY IMPORTANT to hook the negative terminal to your part and the positive terminal to your sacrificial anode. "

The positive wire to the anode should be above the water line, or it will get eaten up. That is the reason that the anode is called a sacrificial anode; it gets eaten up. The negative wire goes to the part being cleaned and should connect to that part below the water line, otherwise some of the part would not get cleaned.

Sorry mate ! I was trying to respond specifically to that particular post. Here is a few do's and don'ts : if you get mixed up , remember that the color of your battery charger leads are : what you want to happen" : connect the positive (red) to your scrap steel anode because that will RUST and your precious metal vise ( that you do not want to turn rust red , rather nice black NON rust will have the BLACK lead attached to it. Just don't DIRECTLY attach any lead , keep them "DRY" ie OUT of the "WATER" and INSTEAD attach a piece of wire to the "clamp" and attach THAT piece of wire to your vise/whatever , just wind a turn or two around it .
Hope this helps. Mate I love this process , once you have done one you will chill out and realise it is simple, fun , and Coolabah (=idiot) proof

 

[Coolabah]

thank you for your help

If I was at all helpful , I am well pleased ! Best of luck to you .

 

[Coolabah]

The positive wire to the anode should be above the water line, or it will get eaten up. That is the reason that the anode is called a sacrificial anode; it gets eaten up. The negative wire goes to the part being cleaned and should connect to that part below the water line, otherwise some of the part would not get cleaned.

Just to be very clear , I now see your confusion : ANY part of the ANODE wiring at or below the surface of the solution ie "Wet Wire " WILL be "eaten up" . So , just keep anything you care about , "DRY". So , do not use your vintage battery charger cable clamp in the solution , eg the whole reason your lovely bride married you , BELOW the "water line"
HTH

 

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Seems like a huge hassle compared to Evaporust, which works great as well.

 

[admranger]

Seems like a huge hassle compared to Evaporust, which works great as well.

Does evaporate strip paint like this does?

 

[My Old Tools]

If you use large anodes with a large part, you may crowbar (overload) your power source. Using an amperage limited power supply solves this. After I cooked a couple of 10 amp battery charges by over current several times, I picked up a nice NOS Lambda regulated power supply off of eBay for $65. It was a $1000 supply when it was built. It will sit there and output 5-15 amps for weeks without limiting out no matter how big the part. I also went to graphite plates for anodes. They don't have to be cleaned as often. Copper wire works just fine for making all of the electrical connections to cathodes and anodes. I just strip common 12 ga Romex and use that. It lasts forever.

 

[My Old Tools]

I've read through the thread and just wanted to confirm a few things before i start. The feed from the charger to the part being cleaned has to be above the water line? If cleaning multiple large pieces such as the main body of a vise and the dynamic slide/jaw simultaneously what would be the best way to connect each part to the negative feed? Also, if my 6 amp charger has either 6 or 12 volts which to use?

No, the feed to the part does not have to be dry. Mine are always in the solution and they work just fine. I use common copper wire to hook to the part being cleaned and drop it in. It will stream bubbles immediately. My positive connection is generally dry just do to the nature of my tank.

 

[ChaseDE]

even with the great info you sometimes still aren't sure, been there.

i use this charger

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0009IBJBM/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I use one of these for a clamp to the piece i am working with. I took off the rubber and sanded down the contact points for good connection. also popped a chain on the end if i ever need to hang an item.



picture of my setup

 

[Arxalot]

Had a comment/question in regards to the electrolytic process. Years ago I used it to clean up some rusted hand tools/misc items successfully, however I did have an issue. While using the process to clean plow discs, I had several discs crack inside the "solution". Never understood why (hydrogen embrittlement maybe?), and I wondered if anyone else had the same result?

 

[Outlawmws]

My_old_tools, I would recommend getting the copper wire out of the soup. Use re-bar Tye wire (its cheap a couple of bucks a roll), or even old coat hanger wire.

Why? Copper is a heavy metal, and you risk contaminating the soup and sludge with heavy metals. This takes a safe and non toxic process and makes it a toxic waste issue...

 

[Coolabah]

No, the feed to the part does not have to be dry. Mine are always in the solution and they work just fine. I use common copper wire to hook to the part being cleaned and drop it in. It will stream bubbles immediately. My positive connection is generally dry just do to the nature of my tank.

My_old_tools, I would recommend getting the copper wire out of the soup. Use re-bar Tye wire (its cheap a couple of bucks a roll), or even old coat hanger wire.

Why? Copper is a heavy metal, and you risk contaminating the soup and sludge with heavy metals. This takes a safe and non toxic process and makes it a toxic waste issue...

Big YES to outlaw's post. Of course, your part of interest is and must be submerged in the "water" , I guess what we are all trying to say is , keep your "expensive" power supply clamp dry , then hook up to a consumable that will then disappear below the surface of your tank. This should ideally be a piece of plain old ordinary metal. Ferrous. Not copper.

 

[Coolabah]

Seems like a huge hassle compared to Evaporust, which works great as well.

so does vinegar
so does orthophosphoric acid, heck , any acid if we are talking about acid reduction processes.
Evaporust is I think a chelate reaction chemical ? Not sure , bought some but it needs me to understand it more before I am a convert, have played with it but initial thoughts are ambivalent.

I have used all of the above, and they are a "backup" if my tank is too much hassle to set up , otherwise a no-brainer.
Having said that ,
There is always more than one way to do anything, I really think any discussions on this issue will end up as a matter of personal opinion/preference

 

[My Old Tools]

it's a little bit of a pain to setup. once up and running it's pretty painless.

 

[Empty Pockets]

Thanks Rich.... Now that I understand the process btter, i'll be setting it up and trying it out

 

[nickelmore]

I know this is an old thread, but there are a lot of very knowledgable people on here. I am restoring a drill press without a sandblaster and will rely on electrolysis to remove the pain and rust. The only problem is that on the head unit there will be hidden areas under the pulley mount and I don't think I can reach with a scotchbrite pad. Will this be a problem, and will things not in a direct line of sight get cleaned? I would very much appreciate any input I could get. Thanks!

A trick I use is to cut notches in a piece of PVC water pipe with a cap glued on the bottom. Put a piece of rebar in the PVC and place into your piece.

The PVC prevents the anode from touching the piece.

Another thing I do is put wire mesh, concrete wire etc. on the bottom of the tank and use a cut down plastic milk crate to make sure the parts does not accidentally touch.

 

[BigRob285]

I am considering building an electrolysis tank and was wondering if there would be a problem using either galvanized or zinc coated rods as my electrodes.

 

[metalmagpie]

This is a seriously zombie thread. Further, it is filled with semitruths. How much current to use? The correct answer is not given in amps. It is given in amps per square inch of part. If you had an old tractor in a pond being derusted (extreme example) using a ten amp power supply would take a very very long time to clean anything. If you're cleaning an old pair of pliers, ten amps would be really a lot. Personally I suggest 125-150 milliamps per square inch.

Also, if you use one of those small buzzbox battery chargers (e.g. Schumacher, Craftsman, etc.) be aware that although they don't say it those things have a max duty cycle. I don't know what it is, but if you EDR part after part with no rest between very soon you will find that you have cooked your charger and now it won't work anymore. I now use a proper DC power supply. It isn't extremely powerful, max 30 amps and 30 volts. But you can use it for a month without it overheating. Also, I generally use it in current mode which means the power supply will raise the voltage as needed (again, to a max of 30) to keep the current constant. If you use mild steel as a sacrificial anode, this will help with the process slowing as the anode corrodes.

I use sheet lead for anodes. Same as they used for the roof on Notre Dame cathedral which has been standing since what - 1050AD? Yes, lead oxide forms (slowly) but lead oxide is just as conductive as clean lead metal, so the bath stays clean and clear and the current stays constant even if you do use a cheap battery charger which acts like a voltage source. You do have to take lead anodes out of the bath afterwards or the sodium carbonate will slowly eat them away. Little lead anodes I rinse off in the shop sink and big ones I lay out in the driveway and pressure wash. One of those rolls of lead sheet from Amazon will last you many, many years.

If you are doing something like an old vise, where you just want to blow through paint and rust quickly, use a high current. If you are derusting an old pair of Zeiss jeweler's glasses, use a very low current. The lower the current the less iron carbonate (black stuff) will be left on your part.

I tie my parts with iron tie wire and suspend them from rods placed over the bath. I generally use a little excess tie wire and leave it bent in a double loop up in the air so I can easily clamp the power supply wires to it. Yes, you can run 30 amps through sixteen gauge wire without it overheating. Remember, it runs through water, so it's continuously cooled.

And on and on ..

metalmagpie

 

[jam022316]

Great write up! Thank you. Only materials left to pick up are the condoms.

 

[Coolabah]

This is a seriously zombie thread. Further, it is filled with semitruths. How much current to use? The correct answer is not given in amps. It is given in amps per square inch of part. If you had an old tractor in a pond being derusted (extreme example) using a ten amp power supply would take a very very long time to clean anything. If you're cleaning an old pair of pliers, ten amps would be really a lot. Personally I suggest 125-150 milliamps per square inch.

Also, if you use one of those small buzzbox battery chargers (e.g. Schumacher, Craftsman, etc.) be aware that although they don't say it those things have a max duty cycle. I don't know what it is, but if you EDR part after part with no rest between very soon you will find that you have cooked your charger and now it won't work anymore. I now use a proper DC power supply. It isn't extremely powerful, max 30 amps and 30 volts. But you can use it for a month without it overheating. Also, I generally use it in current mode which means the power supply will raise the voltage as needed (again, to a max of 30) to keep the current constant. If you use mild steel as a sacrificial anode, this will help with the process slowing as the anode corrodes.

I use sheet lead for anodes. Same as they used for the roof on Notre Dame cathedral which has been standing since what - 1050AD? Yes, lead oxide forms (slowly) but lead oxide is just as conductive as clean lead metal, so the bath stays clean and clear and the current stays constant even if you do use a cheap battery charger which acts like a voltage source. You do have to take lead anodes out of the bath afterwards or the sodium carbonate will slowly eat them away. Little lead anodes I rinse off in the shop sink and big ones I lay out in the driveway and pressure wash. One of those rolls of lead sheet from Amazon will last you many, many years.

If you are doing something like an old vise, where you just want to blow through paint and rust quickly, use a high current. If you are derusting an old pair of Zeiss jeweler's glasses, use a very low current. The lower the current the less iron carbonate (black stuff) will be left on your part.

I tie my parts with iron tie wire and suspend them from rods placed over the bath. I generally use a little excess tie wire and leave it bent in a double loop up in the air so I can easily clamp the power supply wires to it. Yes, you can run 30 amps through sixteen gauge wire without it overheating. Remember, it runs through water, so it's continuously cooled.

And on and on ..

metalmagpie

Yeh, it actually is a very, very simple concept and process. Pretty sure it has been done for a hundred years or 3.
So, if you are using lead as your anode, you are potentially ( get it ? potentially ... LOL) electroplating your object with lead- ask yourself if this is a good thing. Why not use zinc and at least galvanize your part ?

 

[My Old Tools]

One big difference between electrolytic rust removal and vinegar is that no good material is lost with electrolytic. Only the rust is removed (or converted). Vinegar is acid and will attack all of the material. Admittedly it won't be a lot in short period of time, but it does absolutely eat good metal.

 

[BRWEIDEM]

This is a seriously zombie thread. Further, it is filled with semitruths. How much current to use? The correct answer is not given in amps. It is given in amps per square inch of part. If you had an old tractor in a pond being derusted (extreme example) using a ten amp power supply would take a very very long time to clean anything. If you're cleaning an old pair of pliers, ten amps would be really a lot. Personally I suggest 125-150 milliamps per square inch.

Also, if you use one of those small buzzbox battery chargers (e.g. Schumacher, Craftsman, etc.) be aware that although they don't say it those things have a max duty cycle. I don't know what it is, but if you EDR part after part with no rest between very soon you will find that you have cooked your charger and now it won't work anymore. I now use a proper DC power supply. It isn't extremely powerful, max 30 amps and 30 volts. But you can use it for a month without it overheating. Also, I generally use it in current mode which means the power supply will raise the voltage as needed (again, to a max of 30) to keep the current constant. If you use mild steel as a sacrificial anode, this will help with the process slowing as the anode corrodes.

If you are doing something like an old vise, where you just want to blow through paint and rust quickly, use a high current. If you are derusting an old pair of Zeiss jeweler's glasses, use a very low current. The lower the current the less iron carbonate (black stuff) will be left on your part.

metalmagpie

Looking to get started with electrolysis on an old vise I found but now I'm not sure if I should pick up a battery charger or a DC power supply. With a battery charger I've read you could burn them up or you could buy one that will do nothing because it thinks the 'battery' is fully charged. On the other hand I looked up a 30v 30a DC power supply suggested earlier in the thread and couldn't find one cheaper than $250, pretty steep initial investment for a process that I started reading about recently and thinking I could get started for only around $40. In addition, I would hate to pick up a cheaper 5 or 10 amp DC power supply only to find for a particular project it's not enough. Is anyone else facing this dilemma? Appreciate anyone's help to weigh in on this...

 

[kbs2244]

Check out the recycling of computer power supplies.
They are free at the curb.

 

[larry4406]

Looking to get started with electrolysis on an old vise I found but now I'm not sure if I should pick up a battery charger or a DC power supply. With a battery charger I've read you could burn them up or you could buy one that will do nothing because it thinks the 'battery' is fully charged. On the other hand I looked up a 30v 30a DC power supply suggested earlier in the thread and couldn't find one cheaper than $250, pretty steep initial investment for a process that I started reading about recently and thinking I could get started for only around $40. In addition, I would hate to pick up a cheaper 5 or 10 amp DC power supply only to find for a particular project it's not enough. Is anyone else facing this dilemma? Appreciate anyone's help to weigh in on this...

I used an old school Craftsman battery charger, not a smart charger, worked fine on my vise.

 

[GasNSteering]

I have carbon fiber rods. Can I use them as anodes for this process?

 

[lakelandcat]

i searched, didnt find anything. has anyone ever used CLR to clean their tools and would it be safe in a e-bath solution? its supposed to work miracles but i have never used it on anything. i did pick up a quart at rite aid when i went looking for the washing soda. seems no one there or target or winn dixie knew wtf washing soda was. then i found winn dixie brand automatic dish washing powder and it is sodium carbonate(washing soda).

This process does work very well. Sometimes it take a while depending how bad the rust is but when it comes out it looking great. I found my wash powder in my local Kroger with the laundry detergent, Arm and Hammer was the only one they had, like you, the kids there didnt know wtf washing powder was, unless you find someone your grandmothers age or someone who is doing this same thing be prepaired to look. Mine was in a small box,4x8? give or take.