Quincy or champion?

[Ballerbrian]

Hello, I know this has been brought up a lot and believe me I have read all the threads about them! I'm looking to buy a compressor for our bodyshop. It's going to be for the paint booth. I have narrowed down my choice to either a Quincy or champion. They are both 7.5 hp with there max packages including after coolers, automatic drains, low oil protection. Any info on which one to buy will be greatly appreciated.

http://m.northerntool.com/products/shop~tools~product_200350477_200350477?hotline=false


http://www.tptools.com/Champion-75HP-2-Stage-80-Gal-Air-Compressor,805.html

 

[md21722]

Champion is the way to go. Integrated aluminum cylinder head design with no separate head gasket or valve plate and uses disc valves. Valves can be serviced with basic hand tools. Same basic design since the 1940's. These pumps commonly last decades. Parts are readily available.

 

[Ballerbrian]

Thanks for the quick replie! I have seen that the new champions are not made in the good old USA anymore. I went and saw one and it had a sticker on it saying designed and put together in the USA meaning they get the stuff from over seas. As opposed to the Quincy that's still made here.

 

[71goldss]

I own the 5hp 60 gal Quincy and just use it for my home garage. It's a great home use compressor, but if I were to upgrade to a larger compressor it would be a Champion Advantage model with the disc valves!

 

[larry_g]

As opposed to the Quincy that's still made here.

You have to be careful here, Quincy has some imported models also these days.

lg
no neat sigline

 

[Trey T]

I own similar Champion compressor w/ disc valves but 5HP .... so I vote for CHAMPION!!!! If you're to ask all of the compressor gurus on here, they will tell you to get disc valve over reed valves on those Quincy.

Some may question if $700 more for the Champion is worth the price. I'm no expert but all of the heavy duty reciprocating compressors are built w/ disc valve .... I say it's worth it for a body shop.

 

[DSLTRK]

Thanks for the quick replie! I have seen that the new champions are not made in the good old USA anymore. I went and saw one and it had a sticker on it saying designed and put together in the USA meaning they get the stuff from over seas. As opposed to the Quincy that's still made here.

It's a global economy, and Quincy does use imported parts, like the bearings that are Chinese made.


Given the two choices, I'd go with the Champion. I have a 5 hp model with the R15B pump and I just think it's a better engineered unit for both serviceability and efficiency.

 

[DSLTRK]

I just looked at what Quincy you found, I guarantee you I would buy the Champion. The Quincy shown is high rpm, noisy and uses reed valves. No question easy choice there.

 

[md21722]

As far as I know Quincy are assembled in the U.S. with globally sourced parts as well. Quincy definitely has a factory in China. They may not be as honest with their labelling. At 7.5 HP, they both run "about" the same RPM, but the Quincy is a bit more. You are better off for noise levels with a Champion VR7-8 or VR7-12, which uses the R30 V-pump at 575 RPM (7.5 HP) but that will cost you another $1000 or so. As stated, the Quincy has reeds & still has a separate head & valve plate. I have a few Champion R15 pumps like what you're looking to buy. I sold an old Champion RE-4 type last made in 1957. It was still working, crosshatching still on the cylinders, no blow by.. I only upgraded for more air. Ask your local compressor dealer for a quote but I think TPTools will probably beat them at $3100 for a 7.5HP... The Champion Advantage Series is a great buy. I prefer to go R-series which is the same parts, but offers some more customization. I like TEFC motors because I have a lot of dust from grinding and what not and the TEFC motors are enclosed so they don't clog up with dust. If you need something like this, definitely call your local dealer. TEFC motors are about $100 more but not available with the Advantage series. Said differently, Advantage series is just common configurations of R-series, where R-series is completely customizable. Same pumps.

 

[Ballerbrian]

The compressor will be used for a maximum of 3 hours a day. I know that the Quincy comes with the Baldor 1750 rpm motor. The pump rpm is around 900. We will be using this compressor for no more than 5 years so it doesn't matter to me if it last a life time. Now I'm really confused because I have been reading all theses threads and 90% of Peaple say they love Quincy. Now on here you all are loving the champion!

 

[DSLTRK]

The compressor will be used for a maximum of 3 hours a day. I know that the Quincy comes with the Baldor 1750 rpm motor. The pump rpm is around 900. We will be using this compressor for no more than 5 years so it doesn't matter to me if it last a life time. Now I'm really confused because I have been reading all theses threads and 90% of Peaple say they love Quincy. Now on here you all are loving the champion!

Models that you posted is like trying to compare apples and oranges. The Quincy is cheaper because it's a lower quality pump.

If you are only going to run it 3 hrs a day for only 5 yrs, why spend serious money? Get a Cheap IR at tractor supply or a Central Pneumatic at Harbor Freight. Both those should last 5 yrs with proper care.

 

[Ballerbrian]

So basically they are both great compressors. The champion runs a bit slower and is not as loud as the Quincy. The Quincy uses foreign parts and has reed valves. Which I honestly don't know the difference between reed and disc. The champion will last forever as opposed to the Quincy that might need a rebuild down the line? If so if I change the oil every 6 months how long will that be before a rebuild?

 

[md21722]

People love Quincy because of the QR series. Nobody on here really loves the QT series which is what you're looking at. The Champion will run for the next 50 years, hard to say on the Quincy whether or not its worth the difference. Most of the big box stores or farm & ranch stores aren't selling the Quincy fully packaged. But at that price point you could consider a fully packaged IR. But by the time you get to that price you might as well by the Champion for a couple of hundred more.

 

[MEngineer]

If you want to get people excited on this thread about Quincy, offer a Quincy 325 model option, QR-25.

The issue is that the Quincy 325 is a spendy unit. Like twice what your current price point is, but for a BEAST of a compressor.

 

[thecj3man]

I would look at Saylor Beall air compressors also. How many CFM does your paint booth require?

 

[md21722]

Saylor Beall makes a mean compressor, but requires special tools to service the disc valves. I would go with Champion if I could. But if the SB can be had cheaper, then go for it. They are about the same in cost. There is really no reason to go with cast iron heads given the proven longevity of the Champion pumps & simplicity in servicing them.

 

[Ballerbrian]

We have a saylor beall as our main shop compressor now. This new one will also be a back up for that one. I'm looking for somthing around or over 22 cfm. If I do go with champion I have two options the advantage series or this one. https://www.pacificaircompressors.c...-air-compressor-7-5hp-2-stage-80-gal-starter/

 

[04chase]

this will be mine one day

http://www.ebay.com/itm/THE-BEST-7-...868998?hash=item3f138bce06:g:irUAAOSwOVpXWea3

 

[71goldss]

We have a saylor beall as our main shop compressor now. This new one will also be a back up for that one. I'm looking for somthing around or over 22 cfm. If I do go with champion I have two options the advantage series or this one. https://www.pacificaircompressors.c...-air-compressor-7-5hp-2-stage-80-gal-starter/

That second option listed has a three phase motor. The earlier options you listed were single phase. Also, I'm not an expert, but I believe that second Champion model has read valves, so not much gain, if any, over the Quincy. Experts feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[md21722]

The Champion Centurion series looks similar but has cast heads with reed valves. Their best pumps are on the Advantage and R series compressors.

 

[Trey T]

Yes the RV (RV15A or RV30A) model uses reed valves.

I believe the difference between the R15A (disc valve) and RV15A is the duty cycle. I would imagine the disc valves can take a longer beating than the reed valves, which is made of thin stainless steel plates. The R-series are rated for 80% duty cycle (i.e. 48min On; 12min Off).

 

[bsaint]

Quincy is owned by Atlas Copco now. Gardner Denver still owns Champion. Both are great units for 90% of everyone. Both make pressure lubricated and splash lubricated units. If I had to pick, Id pick the Champion R15

 

[yaidunno]

My 1973 R15 is still going strong. I replaced the lower cover gasket a few months back. Everything internal was in great shape, visually. The disc valves were cleaned when i purchased the unit a few years back. I expect it will continue to give me years of reliable service.

I see a lot of folks hide their compressors away in closets to keep the noise down. Personally, I quite enjoy hearing mine run. Its got a low mellow tone that chugs along, and is quick to recover.

 

[Ballerbrian]

I would look at Saylor Beall air compressors also. How many CFM does your paint booth require?

I would like somthing over 22 cfm or around. The guns we use (Sata) use around 15 cfm. But the time the air get through the dryer and 3 stage filter I'm sure the cfms will drop some.

 

[DSLTRK]

My 1973 R15 is still going strong. I replaced the lower cover gasket a few months back. Everything internal was in great shape, visually. The disc valves were cleaned when i purchased the unit a few years back. I expect it will continue to give me years of reliable service.

I see a lot of folks hide their compressors away in closets to keep the noise down. Personally, I quite enjoy hearing mine run. Its got a low mellow tone that chugs along, and is quick to recover.

I agree, the Champion pumps just have a pleasing sound, I'd bet it's due to the lower frequency. I mounted my unit out in the garage and don't mind it at all.

 

[sberry]

If I had my heart set on a good one wouldn't be scared to spend the extra and get the Champ. If I was going to buy it for limited use would consider something more economical like the IR. I got friends used the cheap ones and the units out lived them with 1 oil change.

 

[Jay87T]

If I were you I would try and find a old used one on Craigslist. nothing beats the quality of the older pumps. all new stuff now IMO is junk unless you spend 1000`s.

 

[Ballerbrian]

I went and saw a champion like the one in the original post. It was just like that built in 2015 he wanted 2000$ for it. I was going to get it but when I opened the drain lots of brown rusty water came out. So I said for get it.

 

[A_Pmech]

You'll get rusty water out of any compressor that has been used more than once.

 

[Ballerbrian]

I talked to my local compressor shop and he said one you get rust in the tank it's over. It will just keep growing. He said when you buy a new one and drain it regularly it won't rust. We have a saylor beall from 1971. When we drain it daily clean water comes out.

 

[md21722]

New tanks develop rust as soon as they are manufactured. Once they develop a skin coat of rust the water comes out clean.

 

[Ballerbrian]

He said the compressor had been sitting for months with the water in there.

 

[IndyGarage]

My 1973 R15 is still going strong. I replaced the lower cover gasket a few months back. Everything internal was in great shape, visually. The disc valves were cleaned when i purchased the unit a few years back. I expect it will continue to give me years of reliable service.

I see a lot of folks hide their compressors away in closets to keep the noise down. Personally, I quite enjoy hearing mine run. Its got a low mellow tone that chugs along, and is quick to recover.

Sounds like the exact same one I have at my shop - mine was built in 1971. I've had it for 5 or 6 years now, with no trouble. I think I paid $250 for it. If it broke tomorrow I got my money out of it and whoever had it before me got theirs.

That Champion runs considerably quieter than the similar sized compressor I have at home, which has a much sharper tone to it.

I'm not sure I would ever buy a new or even newer compressor. My local Craigslist is loaded with used compressors of every size shape and quality level every day.

 

[My Old Tools]

If you can find an pressure lubricated Quincy, they last forever, and they are quiet.

 

[redmondjp]

If you can find an pressure lubricated Quincy, they last forever, and they are quiet.

But even within the Quincy QR pump family, there are varying levels of quiet.

I've got a 325 which spins at 900rpm. It is quiet relative to most compressors sold today.

My dream Quincy pump is either a 350 spinning at 400RPM with a 5HP motor, giving 15.6cfm @ 175psi, or a 370 spinning at 400RPM with a 7.5HP motor, giving 18.5cfm @ 175psi. But a 350/370 pump just by itself weighs 480lbs!!!

The ones that run low and slow - well, you mostly feel them rather than hear them.

 

[Ballerbrian]

I was speaking to my local compressor shop and he was saying the champion or the Quincy both should not come with 7.5 hp motors. He was saying that those pumps are built to be ran with 5 hp motors. It's makeing the pumps run real hard and just like humans if you make them work hard they won't last long. Im still torn between the Quincy qt 7.5 and the champion advantage 7.5. I don't know why I'm liking the Quincy more. Is the mantiance for like a valve job more difficult because it has reed valves instead of disc valves?

 

[DSLTRK]

I was speaking to my local compressor shop and he was saying the champion or the Quincy both should not come with 7.5 hp motors. He was saying that those pumps are built to be ran with 5 hp motors. It's makeing the pumps run real hard and just like humans if you make them work hard they won't last long. Im still torn between the Quincy qt 7.5 and the champion advantage 7.5. I don't know why I'm liking the Quincy more. Is the mantiance for like a valve job more difficult because it has reed valves instead of disc valves?

Time to find a different compressor shop. I'm sure the mech engineers who work at Champion/Quincy know how to size motors and determine duty cycles...

 

[sberry]

I was speaking to my local compressor shop and he was saying the champion or the Quincy both should not come with 7.5 hp motors. He was saying that those pumps are built to be ran with 5 hp motors. It's makeing the pumps run real hard and just like humans if you make them work hard they won't last long. Im still torn between the Quincy qt 7.5 and the champion advantage 7.5. I don't know why I'm liking the Quincy more. Is the mantiance for like a valve job more difficult because it has reed valves instead of disc valves?

I agree with this and it should be elaborated on. A 5 running the same pump will be quieter and last longer. If it is a different model pump than that may be a different case.
While I am a firm believer in some horsepower a 5 will get er done for auto body. A 7.5 on a size larger tank could well support a 2 or 3 man shop where there could be overlapping demand on occasion. Recovery is a zing with 1 operator on a big p-ump but if I am working regular I can auto body/paint a car or truck from 3 hp if I am thrifty and mind the cycle time.
You can sand till you are tired on 5, most of thre time a single cycle which means you start, it starts and you sand till about time the thing might catch up. With 3 hp I sand till it kicks on and till performance drops, say 120 or so, I take break and regroup, resume sanding at 165 as the machine kicks at 175 so when I resume the pump is running and the tank is full, run a couple, break a minute or 2, resume, probably run near 65%, maybe longer for half an hour.
I got a lot of tank, it depends a bit on where one starts etc but it makes a big difference if the pump is running 100% or 50. Larger capacity helps. Allows use 50% say on a 10 cfm comp, 12 would bump it to 60 or so and 2 stage and larger tanks leave a time/energy head room. My cycle may be 5 minutes, I should time it. Ideally would be a big gage on the wall.

 

[sberry]

I have a 3, maybe R-15 and I believe its listed for 5 also but at this speed it lasts a looooooonngggg time. The 3 really is a pinch small but is ok with additional tanks, about 200 total and it reduces the starts. Even blowing some underground, by the time a guy moves a hookup its cranked a lot back up. I got 5 more with the blue unit but the breaker is off, figure if something ever does go south at least it would be a single unit and its really so rare I need it. I wanted extra tank and it might as well store a pump and motor on it.

 

[Ballerbrian]

Hey guys is the main difference between the pumps that one is disc valves and the other is reed valves? Is the main issues with the reed valves the difficulties to service it? I always have a compressor man do it for me. Do the reed valves have to be serviced sooner than disc valves?