To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Honda crank bolt wont come off???

tygertone214

New member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Messages
2
Hi, im tring to get the crank bolt off but that sucker is TIGHT. my impact wrench isnt strong enough to loosen it. i hear a 3/4 impact will work but i would not use it for any other reason (that i can think of) and its cost too much. I hear this specail tool will work, but im not sure? has anyone used this or had a similar problem? thank for your info:

http://www.etoolcart.com/honda-crankshaft-holder-kdt3970.aspx
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

jay50

Banned
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
3,894
If it is the Accord, yeah, those crankbolts are a SOB to get out; really the hardest part of a timing belt R&R on an Accord. I believe the factory uses red loctite on them.

Most 1/2 impacts don't have enough balls to remove them. You definitely need the crank hold down tool (about $45) before you tackle this job. I have helped the removal by applying a small amount of heat to the face of the bolt with a plumpers type torch. I follow it up by using a 4ft piece of steel cheater pipe on a breaker bar while someone holds the holddown tool in place.

Had one that make a gunshot type sound when the bolt finally broke loose; sounded like someone shot a rifle in the shop....scared the **** out of everyone, they were ducking behind cars and tool boxes....LOL

Good luck.
 

checkthisout

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 5, 2008
Messages
5,232
Hi, im tring to get the crank bolt off but that sucker is TIGHT. my impact wrench isnt strong enough to loosen it. i hear a 3/4 impact will work but i would not use it for any other reason (that i can think of) and its cost too much. I hear this specail tool will work, but im not sure? has anyone used this or had a similar problem? thank for your info:

http://www.etoolcart.com/honda-crankshaft-holder-kdt3970.aspx


Oddly, a 1/2 Craftsman impact gun will take them lose.

The easiest option is to pin a breaker bar between the radius rod and body and bump the starter.

Yes, I know the starter cranks the engine in a direction that wants to tighten the bolt but it will work, I promise! Just make sure you give the starter a quick bump and no more.
 

justinmc

Well-known member
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
2,239
Location
KCMO
Hi, im tring to get the crank bolt off but that sucker is TIGHT. my impact wrench isnt strong enough to loosen it. i hear a 3/4 impact will work but i would not use it for any other reason (that i can think of) and its cost too much. I hear this specail tool will work, but im not sure? has anyone used this or had a similar problem? thank for your info:

http://www.etoolcart.com/honda-crankshaft-holder-kdt3970.aspx


Here's some good answers for you... but from my experience helping in a friends tuner shop. You need the pulley tool.

"However the resistance you may face, could be loosening the crank pulley bolt, required to perform the timing belt replacement. The crank pulley bolt on most Honda engines are very difficult to loosen. Most 1/2" impact guns are just are not strong enough to loosen them. The choice is yours to either use a 3/4" impact gun such as the CP 772H or a Honda/Acura crank pulley tool like the Powerbuilt 648796, (the most popular choice by far is the 648796 crankshaft pulley holder), either approach will work."

http://www.denlorstools.com/home/dt1/page_6807/honda_and_acura_timing_belt_helpful_tips.html
 

chammyman

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Messages
882
Location
Glasgow, Scotland
well having done proibably around 100 in the last year the crank holding tools never work they burst.

1/2 inch won't get it off dry, neither will a 3/4 90% of the time. A 1 inch gun will.

However if you have burning gear get the bolt hot and a 1/2 gun will buzz it off or even a breaker bar and ratchet.

The heat needs to be hot and fast otherwise you melt the belts, plastics, seals, rubber and everything else

the next time round it'll be a doddle and don't bother loctiting it on torque it up it won;t come loose.
 

chammyman

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 16, 2008
Messages
882
Location
Glasgow, Scotland

Nik_95Cobra

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 18, 2008
Messages
241
Spray them with Zep a couple times a few hours or even a day before you try to pull it off. I never have a problem doing it that way.
 

Stephenw

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
1,911
Location
Utah
Turn your air pressure regulator up. You need a good 1/2 inch gun (mine is an IR 2131). Pour a bunch of air tool oil into your gun. This will give it more power on the initial trigger pull. Finally, put some heat to the bolt with oxy-acetylene.
 

SteveU

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 20, 2006
Messages
1,243
Location
Michigan
Do the 2135TI/TIMAX or Nitrocats have enough power to do one of these? What impact were you running that didn't? In addition to turning the pressure up running high volume fittings makes a big difference on air tools.
 

goodfellow

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 17, 2006
Messages
2,288
Location
NoVA
Do the 2135TI/TIMAX or Nitrocats have enough power to do one of these? What impact were you running that didn't? In addition to turning the pressure up running high volume fittings makes a big difference on air tools.

+1 My 3/4" impact is almost useless when connected to a standard 1/4" quick connector. That's why I have a separate 3/8" quick connect setup on one of my air drops that allows me to run that impact at full power. Pretty impressive seeing that thing take off stubborn fasteners.
 

krusty the clown

Member Emeritus
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
7,535
Location
niangua, mo
i have not been able to remove one with a 1/2 impact. i have been borrowing a 3/4 from a friend although i did buy the holding tool in the first link for the next one i do. you cannot remove the bolt by barring a breaker bar against the frame and hitting the starter........it will only tighten the bolt more. although the engine turns in the opposite direction because the front of the engine faces left instead of right honda did not have the foresight to use a left handed thread on the bolt.
 

IDASHO

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
1,809
Location
Moscow, Idaho
I hate using impacts on crank bolts. Sometimes I can just HEAR the crank and rod bearings screaming as I do.


Ive got one trick for you though, that is commonly used in the SHO taurus community.

The SHO has a fairly large crank bolt, 5/8 IIRC, and is a PITA to remove using any common means.

What you do is put a socket and short breaker bar on the crank bolt, and position the breaker bar an inch or so away from striking the subframe.

Then bump the starter with the ignition. Crank rotates CW, breaker bar strikes the subframe and keeps the crank bolt from rotating any further. Loose! Works EVERY time Ive ever done it.

Let the starter do the work :thumbup:
 

krusty the clown

Member Emeritus
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
7,535
Location
niangua, mo
I hate using impacts on crank bolts. Sometimes I can just HEAR the crank and rod bearings screaming as I do.


Ive got one trick for you though, that is commonly used in the SHO taurus community.

The SHO has a fairly large crank bolt, 5/8 IIRC, and is a PITA to remove using any common means.

What you do is put a socket and short breaker bar on the crank bolt, and position the breaker bar an inch or so away from striking the subframe.

Then bump the starter with the ignition. Crank rotates CW, breaker bar strikes the subframe and keeps the crank bolt from rotating any further. Loose! Works EVERY time Ive ever done it.

Let the starter do the work :thumbup:

it will not work on a honda for the reasons i posted above
 

jay50

Banned
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
3,894
Keep using those starters to break loose crank bolts and you will be explaining to the owner why they came in the shop with no starter problems but suddenly needed a new one.
 

vjquan

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
863
it will not work on a honda for the reasons i posted above
Not all Honda's rotate counter-clockwise. My Acura rotates clockwise and CAN use the bump start method, although, I was able to get mine loose with the holding tool and a 24" breaker bar.
 

vjquan

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
863
just curious, is your acura engine on the left or right side?
Actually, neither, it's a longitude mounted motor (Legend). My '02 Odyssey is a right side mounted motor and the Ody forum guys use the bump start method there as well. I get the impression that perhaps the newer Honda's are clockwise rotation, though I don't know if that's across the board. Or maybe it's just the V6's - just a guess...
 
Last edited:
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

IDASHO

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
1,809
Location
Moscow, Idaho
Keep using those starters to break loose crank bolts and you will be explaining to the owner why they came in the shop with no starter problems but suddenly needed a new one.

The starter bump method has very little to do with the starter, and MUCH more to do with the rotating mass of the engine.

Plus, Id much rather put the hurt (if any) on a starter than internal bearings, wouldnt you?

That said, I have used this method on my daily driver '89 SHO more than a dozen times now, and it is still on its original, factory installed starter.
 

krusty the clown

Member Emeritus
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
7,535
Location
niangua, mo
Actually, neither, it's a longitude mounted motor (Legend). My '02 Odyssey is a right side mounted motor and the Ody forum guys use the bump start method there as well. I get the impression that perhaps the newer Honda's are clockwise rotation, though I don't know if that's across the board. Or maybe it's just the V6's - just a guess...

i think the difference would be that a transverse engine thats on the left side will rotate counterclockwise.
 

Danglerb

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 6, 2007
Messages
9,736
Location
SoCal
Tighten or loosen doesn't matter as much as breaking the bolt loose right?

Anybody try one of the freezing penetrating oils?
 

gofastman

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
729
Location
Minnesota
Tighten or loosen doesn't matter as much as breaking the bolt loose right?

Anybody try one of the freezing penetrating oils?

I think those are better suted to smaller fasteners, a crank bolt has allot of mass and would be difficult to cool that much, but Im not sure
 

vjquan

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Messages
863
Keep using those starters to break loose crank bolts and you will be explaining to the owner why they came in the shop with no starter problems but suddenly needed a new one.
It's all about gear ratios. I like to think of it like a mountain bike in first gear. The front sprocket would be small compared the gear on the rear wheel. It's easy to pedal, yet you can climb tall hills, although, at a lot of revolutions. This would be similar to the starter (very small gear) driving the flywheel or flexplate which is very large. You're not stressing anything. The very worst a starter can see is if it was starting a seized engine. It'll just click and not rotate which can eventually burn out if held there.
 
Last edited:

checkthisout

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 5, 2008
Messages
5,232
It's all about gear ratios. I like to think of it like a mountain bike in first gear. The front sprocket would be small compared the gear on the rear wheel. It's easy to pedal, yet you can climb tall hills, although, at a lot of revolutions. This would be similar to the starter (very small gear) driving the flywheel or flexplate which is very large. You're not stressing anything. The very worst a starter can see is if it was starting a seized engine. It'll just click and not rotate which can eventually burn out if held there.


Lots of different opinions, some from experienced people some from people that????

I am a 13 year veteran Honda Tech.

The post above is 100% correct.

Others made posts about turning up the air pressure on your compressor. I totally agree, lots of oil in the gun as others have stated helps too. I have tried every brand of gun and there are two that will brake them lose with adequate air pressure.

One is a the Craftsman impact gun that costs like $130 bucks, I don't remember the model. The other is the "silent" A/R composite guns. You need to use a short, impact socket to get enough force to transfer from the gun to the bolt.

Using the holding tool often nets you a damaged breaker bar and possible injury.

Heating up the bolt is a bit risky since the harmonic balancer is right there and getting the bolt hot enough means you have little chance of getting it hot enough without overheating the damper.


I am assuming this is a 94-97 Accord since they are the only ones that freeze up like that.

I have done 100's using the impact guns stated, at home my wimpy 135 PSI air compressor just can't hack it so I just use a breaker bar between the frame and whack the starter for a split second. It spins the wrong way to losen the bolt but the deflection when the engine bounces back is enough to break it lose. I didn't believe my buddy when he told me to do it that way (since the starter spins the wrong way) when I did my first one at home but have done it that way at least 20 times since with no damage to anything.

Good luck with whatever method you choose!!!!
 

snorky18

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 1, 2007
Messages
1,170
Location
Southeast Tennessee
When I took the crank bolt off mom's 97 Accord, I remember calculating the torque I applied to be about 1200 FT-LB. About 200LBS of me hanging on about 6' of pipe, using 3/4" socket wrench.

Sounded like a rifle when it broke loose, and I don't mean a .22. Was afraid I broke something, but it was just the bolt breaking loose.
 

Skyline

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
3,586
That said, I have used this method on my daily driver '89 SHO more than a dozen times now, and it is still on its original, factory installed starter.

Why? As I once owned one of the 6 Cyl SHO's, I can't understand why you would need to pull the crank bolt so many times. These engines were pretty much 100% bulletproof...a lot more than you could say for the vehicle it was bolted into.
 

vssjim

ALLIANCE MEMBER
Joined
Aug 5, 2007
Messages
2,715
Location
McLean Va.
I use the SIR 3 foot Crank holding tool and a Cornwell 3/4 3 foot Ratchet and don't even try to do anything else, I just get out the tools when the car comes in and get on with it.
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
7
Do the 2135TI/TIMAX or Nitrocats have enough power to do one of these? What impact were you running that didn't? In addition to turning the pressure up running high volume fittings makes a big difference on air tools.

There's actually two issues concerning the Honda crankshaft pulley bolt that needs to be addressed. I'll address the removal of the bolt first, and then an excellent way to tighten the bolt back up using torque sticks (aka torque limiting extensions).

The IR 2135Ti and TiMAX do have plenty of power to pull off these bolts. I would expect similar guns like Aircat's 1000-TH, 1000-TC, or the 1100-K or similar strength Chicago Pneumatic guns to be equally effective.

I personally like to buy very good quality IR 2135TiMAX's right now off of eBay for around $150--or $120 with some concentrated effort. If you're a tech, and you're going to use these guns daily, I wouldn't even consider a gun that isn't a quiet one; you're ears are sensitive tools, so, take care of them. All three manufacturers make quiet guns in these top-of-the-line 1/2" drives.

The keys to using these tools can be put into three simple categories--at least 3/8" hose or larger, higher pressure, and Milton type HVLP (High Volume Low Pressure) couplings and fittings.

First, I wouldn't even try this bolt without at least a 3/8" hose. You can use a larger hose than 3/8", but it isn't necessary, 1/2" is used with the larger CFM 3/4" impacts. I use Goodyear rubber hoses.

Secondly, if your gun doesn't work at 90 PSI, then crank up the output regulator on your compressor to 120 PSI or greater. It's common for shops to run their equipment well above 90 PSI. The low end "big air" two stage compressors fill their tanks at 175 PSI, and it's not uncommon to see these run at 120 to 150 PSI.

My IR 2135Ti and 2135TiMAX both failed to remove my '97 Honda Civic crank pulley off at 90 PSI, but when I used my 2135TiMAX at 120, it ripped off the bolt with almost no hammering.

Lastly, if you still fail to remove the fastener/bolt, and you're using 3/8" hose, and you've maxed out the pressure on your compressor, you have to remove the smallest constriction in your lines that causes the largest loss of power--the coupling is the largest thief of power in your system.

This is where Milton type HVLP couplings and fittings come into play. HF has High-Flo couplings and fittings, but these are inexpensive items already, and play an important role in your system; so, do yourself a favor and buy from somewhere else. Inexpensive couplings are not necessarily cheap couplings. Avoid HF, and you've gone a long way to minimizing your air leaks. I use Milton type "V" couplings and fittings.

One quick note: Try keeping your lines connected directly to the compressor if you can, and minimize your use of long hoses, fittings and curves in any piping.

I'd also like to discuss tightening your bolt. If you want to tighten your bolt to specifications, try torque limiting extensions on your impact wrench. These "torque sticks" or "torque stix" bend at their intended rating to absorb the force of an impact wrench. I have a set that I bought from HF for $60.

The last comment that I would make about this bolt is about the use of loctite or threadlocker. Some people have had the issue of their crankshaft pulley coming loose after some period of time. If you are concerned about this issue, consider using a medium strength "glue" for this application--for example, the blue gel, threadlocker, from Permatex. Whatever you do, DON'T use the red loctite or threadlocker for this application. If your car ever needs to have the crankshaft pulley removed, and you've used the red loctite or threadlocker, you may very well be looking at an EXPENSIVE repair bill. RED loctite or threadlocker is for high strength applications, and you may break your bolt trying to remove it.

Good luck.
 

boogerboy72

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 30, 2009
Messages
212
ive always used the tool and long breaker bar. there on there tight as hell, but they come off.
 

z28snksknr

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 8, 2009
Messages
1,827
Location
Turnersville, NJ
Just did this job last night. I bought the crank holder tool which was a horrible fit (loose) that kept cocking itself or slipping off whenever i put torque to it. After 45 min of positioning it, I ran out and bought a IR 1/2" impact gun to try with my friend's Porter Cable compressor (little guy). The bolt laughed at that gun. Went back to the hand tools and found the magical geometry that would hold the crank holder on while I was JUMPING (200 lbs.) on the breaker bar handle while pulling myself down (holding the frame). The noise was so loud, my wife woke up from napping inside and came to check on me.

I'm returning the impact gun today. When I buy a grown up compressor, I'll get the craftsman gun mentioned here. Thanks for the tips!! Hopefully I can button that damn thing up today and get back to workin on cars I care about.
 

IDASHO

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
1,809
Location
Moscow, Idaho
Why? As I once owned one of the 6 Cyl SHO's, I can't understand why you would need to pull the crank bolt so many times. These engines were pretty much 100% bulletproof...a lot more than you could say for the vehicle it was bolted into.

They are very good motors, but a bit of a chore to work on.


You must remove the crank bolt to remove the water pump

You must remove the crank bolt to remove the oil pump

You must remove the crank bolt to replace the timing belt

You must remove the crank bolt to replace the cam seals

you must remove the crank bolt to replace the crank sensor


The car had a mysterious oil leak when I got it. After replacing the oil pan gasket, cam sensor and gasket, cam seals, etc... etc.... After many tear-downs, the oil leak turned out to be a bad oil pump seal.

After all that was fixed, I could tear the front end of the motor apart blindfold :headscrat

I probably should have just let it leak, afterall, the leak was so slight that it didnt ever drip :wtf:
 

Marlin

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
1,038
Just did this job last night. I bought the crank holder tool which was a horrible fit (loose) that kept cocking itself or slipping off whenever i put torque to it. After 45 min of positioning it, I ran out and bought a IR 1/2" impact gun to try with my friend's Porter Cable compressor (little guy). The bolt laughed at that gun. Went back to the hand tools and found the magical geometry that would hold the crank holder on while I was JUMPING (200 lbs.) on the breaker bar handle while pulling myself down (holding the frame). The noise was so loud, my wife woke up from napping inside and came to check on me.

I'm returning the impact gun today. When I buy a grown up compressor, I'll get the craftsman gun mentioned here. Thanks for the tips!! Hopefully I can button that damn thing up today and get back to workin on cars I care about.
What model IR and do you think the compressor, hose size, etc was getting sufficient air to the tool?
 

TexasT

Banned
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
833
Location
Texas
One of my wife's friends, son had this dilemma. I went over there with this
ft23800.jpg


He had spent several days and broken a tool or two working to get it off. The tone of his voice when he said "It's moving" was priceless.
 

IDASHO

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 5, 2007
Messages
1,809
Location
Moscow, Idaho
at yoda , oil pump seals were an automatic up grade to every timing belt job [it's how you can make 20 hours a day ] -phew ! japanese motors are leakers

To date, that is the only leak this motor has ever had. It doesnt even weap oil. Bottom of the motor and undercarriage are clean and dry.

20 years, 150k miles.

:thumbup:
 
Joined
Sep 28, 2009
Messages
7
Just did this job last night. I bought the crank holder tool which was a horrible fit (loose) that kept cocking itself or slipping off whenever i put torque to it. After 45 min of positioning it, I ran out and bought a IR 1/2" impact gun to try with my friend's Porter Cable compressor (little guy). The bolt laughed at that gun. Went back to the hand tools and found the magical geometry that would hold the crank holder on while I was JUMPING (200 lbs.) on the breaker bar handle while pulling myself down (holding the frame). The noise was so loud, my wife woke up from napping inside and came to check on me.

I'm returning the impact gun today. When I buy a grown up compressor, I'll get the craftsman gun mentioned here. Thanks for the tips!! Hopefully I can button that damn thing up today and get back to workin on cars I care about.

Unfortunately, you didn't mention what IR impact gun you were using. They have a spectrum of impacts from the older steel ones that can peak as low as 250 ft-lbs to the newer composite guns that go as low as 500 ft-lbs of torque. The newest 2135TiMAX that produces 780 ft-lbs of torque and can loosen bolts that have been tightened to 1,100 ft-lbs (IR calls this "nut busting torque") with the use of the hammering mechanism incorporated into the gun.

Secondly, you didn't mention what size hose you were using. If you're using smaller than a 3/8" hose, you're not giving yourself much of a chance.

Thirdly, you didn't mention what pressures you tried. If you only tried 90 PSI, you should pray, and call your nearest shaman--very little chance of success.

Fourth, if you didn't specify any of these items, you almost certainly weren't using HVLP couplings and fittings. All of these issues make a huge difference.

Lastly, you don't need a "grown up compressor". At my home, I use an ancient (almost 40 years old) Sears Craftsman with a 2 HP motor. There is no size on the tank, but I think it's about 30 gallons. The tank regulator fills the tank to 150 PSI, and then shuts off and turns on again at 125 PSI. The tank has a tiny 1/4" NPT (National Pipe Taper) output connection.

Whenever I need to use a 3/4" impact (which is almost never), I run the impact until the compressor starts filling up the tank again, and wait until the tank is filled at 150 PSI, and hit the impact again until the compressor comes back on again. The few times I have had to use this trick, it has never failed me.

I hope these tips help you out. Best of luck with your crankshaft pulley bolt.
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom