Which Miller Welder is right for me?

[skipnay]

Say money isn't an object in this fight. Since Zoro has a 30% off coupon coming in the next 10-12 days. I'm looking at the Millermatic 252, and Millermatic 350p. I will be using this for home use but I always seem to find myself needing something bigger so that is why I have decided not to 211 or 212. I have a Miller 250DX tig machine already. I also have a hobart 140 mig machine for portability and 110 usage.

I have 200 amp service coming into my garage. That being said I also have 40 panels with maybe 16 used at this point. So electric isn't an issue. Do I need the pulsar or is it worth it? Can I go with a 252 and add pulsar or is that just stupid? We have used my tig for some bell housings, atv ramp repair, and a couple other things.

 

[Bobcat753]

The 252 is a beast of a MIG welder. With it you would be hard pressed to find something it can't do. Anything over 3/4" is too thick for any 220V mig any way. Also I have never found pulsed MIG to have any benefit. As for price, buy it from CyberWeld than Zoro. It is only about $200 more than Zoro w/coupon.
http://store.cyberweld.com/mil251witmet.html

 

[sberry]

a 252 is hard to out do. it will output more that its rating and with the right process will weld 3/4 It is a 50A input machine, would likely hold at 40 with small wire. It would be a high end for a home brew outfit, lots of power.
I havnt used pulse, I spose for light sheet it may be useful but you have a sheet metal unit. The 250 migs are about the only factory cord units that require 8 wire for full poop. Would run from a 10 in short circuit.

 

[hoston23]

i have both a 251 and a 350p at home. it just depends on what your doing, the 252 has a smaller gun for tight places but the 350p is more balls and can get larger jobs done quicker. i dont use the pulse on the 350p we just use it as a usual mig welder. it just depends on your means

 

[LXCam]

I've had my 251 for many years now and I've run a **** load of wire thru it and never had one issue. My previous Lincoln 185 didn't hold a candle to it across the board. Unless you're doing really thick materials on a regular basis I just can't see justifying a 350 but a 211 would fall short for many of the projects I do.

 

[skipnay]

Thanks guys. I wonder how long the price will stay at cyber world for the 252? My Hobart 110 ***** for doing 18 gauge sheet metal. Haven't done anything thinner. One time it's way to much heat and blows a hole right through the material. The next time it runs great. Maybe the Hobart needs some attention but it has only had 1.5 spools of wire through it. Even though the machine is about 10 years old. I think someone told me it needed the ground reclaimed or tightened and something else.

 

[Ign]

^^^^my Intsel has the 252 on the floor at $2395.

Looks to be one in Bristol PA. Maybe see if they'll work w you?
http://www.sss-steel.com/contact-us/locations/intsel-locations

 

[Bobcat753]

The cyberweld price is always that price. They usually have the lowest prices you will find for miller equipment. That is where I bought my Trailblazer and had no problems.

 

[skipnay]

^^^^my Intsel has the 252 on the floor at $2395.

Looks to be one in Bristol PA. Maybe see if they'll work w you?
http://www.sss-steel.com/contact-us/locations/intsel-locations

How do you mean work with me?

The cyberweld price is always that price. They usually have the lowest prices you will find for miller equipment. That is where I bought my Trailblazer and had no problems.

Ok I was just kinda wondering...

 

[DanarchyCustoms]

At work we have the 251, 252 and the 350p. The 350p is a great machine and we use it solely for aluminum but have the option to switch it out to steel. It is a great great aluminum welder but its a pain in the *** to run the aluminum wire through 20 feet of the Push/Pull gun. It takes me about a 30 minutes if I am lucky to switch out a new reel of aluminum in it. Thats the down side. Like the 252 it is a great welder and built strong but for the home shop its a bit overkill. The ideal environment for the 350p is a aluminum trailer manufacturer.
I cannot stress how much i love the 252. It is a strong machine and works great, my personal favorite machine in the shop right now. To me its the updated version of the 251 in my opinion and far surpasses it.

 

[zkling]

350p it's really a step above with the pulse features, get a spool gun with it. You are running a syncro 250 on a 40amp panel? I've ran mine on a 40amp breaker, but a 40amp panel?

 

[Dr Stan]

Say money isn't an object in this fight. Since Zoro has a 30% off coupon coming in the next 10-12 days. I'm looking at the Millermatic 252, and Millermatic 350p. I will be using this for home use but I always seem to find myself needing something bigger so that is why I have decided not to 211 or 212. I have a Miller 250DX tig machine already. I also have a hobart 140 mig machine for portability and 110 usage.

I have 200 amp service coming into my garage. That being said I also have 40 amp panel with maybe 16 used at this point. So electric isn't an issue. Do I need the pulsar or is it worth it? Can I go with a 252 and add pulsar or is that just stupid? We have used my tig for some bell housings, atv ramp repair, and a couple other things.

I think you left out the most important part. How thick of material do you plan to weld? Do you want to weld aluminum?

I bought a brand new Miller 180 with the Torchmate for just under $1000. It does everything I want up to 1/4" steel. About 3 yrs ago I built a twin axle 6 X 14 ft aluminum trailer using the Miller for all the welds. The frame is 2 X 2 X 1/4 sq tubing and the decking is 3/8" aluminum tread plate. Worked great for me.

 

[trackwelder]

A good friend of mine has a 252 and it's a real gem of a welder. I wouldn't mind having one but with four mm200 at my disposal each running a different flavor of wire it's a hard buy. You won't be disappointed it you get one. I let him try my 30a spool gun and now he's on the hunt for one.

 

[Know Wosad]

252 are bad to the bone but don't pass up a good buy on an Ironman(Hobart).

 

[rmack898]

I have a 251 and I run a 30A off it for aluminum MIG. If money were not a factor you can bet your *** I'd have a 350P in my shop so I could run pulse and get TIG looking MIG welds on thicker aluminum.

If aluminum is not in your scope of work, then a 252 will do anything you want on 3/8" or less..

 

[skipnay]

350p it's really a step above with the pulse features, get a spool gun with it. You are running a syncro 250 on a 40amp panel? I've ran mine on a 40amp breaker, but a 40amp panel?

Sorry the 40 breaker panel. I have used up 16 slots so I have like 24 left...

 

[skipnay]

I plan on doing more steel then aluminum. If I have to do thick aluminum I can always break out the tig machine. Yes it may take longer but it will probably look better anyway. I wanted to be able to do aluminum but I'm thinking it is going to be a pain in the **** to just switch it out to do a couple welds. But if I'm doing a bunch of welds I can't see myself doing more then 3/8. I mean what would you use 1/2'' aluminum for anyway? Just think of the cost of aluminum in 1/2" anyway!!!

 

[sberry]

A Hobart 140 is a very good sheet metal machine, sumthin wrong.

 

[ovrrdrive]

Welders Supply is another good place to buy from online. I bought my MM180 and my PM65 from them. Their prices are usually the best I can find on the net and they ship quickly too. When I bought my PM65 they threw in a few hats for free. Not a big deal but it was a nice thing to do.

http://www.weldersupply.com/P/113/Millermatic252208230Volt

Whether you need it or not I would suggest buying the biggest machine you can afford. They're like outboard motors... You never need the big one until you do and they're expensive to change out.

 

[ovrrdrive]

Something else to consider is duty cycle. Looking over the spec sheets the 252 doesn't hit 100% duty until you go down to about 150A. While the 350P hits 100% at around 240A.

60% on the 252 is at 200A, 60% on the 350P is 300A.

Depending on how you weld that along could make it worth the jump to the larger machine. Just something to consider.

 

[sberry]

How much work you going to do? A 252 will wear out the guy operating it.

 

[sberry]

I am a career welder. Have never hit the duty cycle with a 250 mig, ran one with 045 as long as a guy can stand it, 2 hrs at a time above 200A. in today's market the IM230 would be on my short list at near a grand less if I was not headed in to production welding shop.

 

[DerekV]

I am a career welder. Have never hit the duty cycle with a 250 mig, ran one with 045 as long as a guy can stand it, 2 hrs at a time above 200A. in today's market the IM230 would be on my short list at near a grand less if I was not headed in to production welding shop.

This. I've found Miller's duty cycle figures to be very conservative.

 

[skipnay]

A Hobart 140 is a very good sheet metal machine, sumthin wrong.

I think also. I had someone tell me I needed to upgrade the ground clamp to brass or tweeco style ground clamp. Which I did. Then I was told to open up and get inside the welder. Tighten the green wire ground mounted to the back of the case. Those two things should make a big difference in the quality of welding the with that machine.

 

[sberry]

I did a test after a problem with one of mine and found a hot connection and at wide open on short test welds my tech said maybe 10% or so and when you got it wide open already it matters some and as an operator knew it was slightly off for some reason. It isn't always a ground clamp though, a tip can get damaged easily.
Settings and consistency and some general welding stuff really apply to difficult light sheet work. Good eyesight and glasses a must. I have repaired a couple 140 but never used one a lot, know a couple that have and know so I am pretty sure its good especially on the bottom end and the choking parameters are well tuned for it, its made for this.
A fuzz off on settings mean a lot, wire a bit too high and easily burns thru. On a thick piece you cant turn it up far enough and it is very forgiving but down low the math is wayyy different and a little error is a lot, also the 140 is a 023 C25 unit.

 

[sberry]

This. I've found Miller's duty cycle figures to be very conservative.

They have kept some of the ratings the same for a long time and we really are not maxxing the machine out which may take a different gun and gas which you probably know.
They kind of built this machine up to the capacity of the electrical circuit so to speak. Their old 200 really became the 252 and maybe they look a long way ahead to model and ratings giving themselves some headroom for new ones fundamentally the same as the old but for new features.
Most of them I have used the factory clamp. Easy way to tell, turn it up and weld for a minute, if its got a problem will be hot quickly which is what just happen, I fixed this one some time ago and all of a sudden a problem with the weld and a hot clamp or in my case the connection to the clamp was the culprit.
After I found the hot spot we tested it for giggles, if feels 10A light, it measures the drop and then we read Amp probe, machine should be making about 10 more. We had measured this machine at one time for a comparison test and eventually tossed the notes but recall it was around 130 with 030.

 

[sberry]

Another thing to consider here is other cost. To a hobby guy that can make it a year or 2 on 10# of wire and a gas fill the cost doesn't mean much and neither does it to add a little time here and there, if it takes a bit extra to weld out a 1 off trailer no big deal.
We tested and track some thru a couple projects but a 252 cost 1/2 to operate as a 211 in direct consumable provided the op0erator resists adding a lot of additional weld and in some cases it is easier and faster to do it.
The deposit and output on a 252 running 035 is 2x that of 030 and uses the same amount of gas which is cheaper in a large bottle and uses a wire can be bought for 1/2 the cost in 30# spools.
Then there is the time and sometimes double or schedule issues, we can finish today vs tomorrow or if we have men watch each other it speeds up 2 men. Speeds up a 2 man crew not just the operator, speeds up all the overhead and it adds yup faster than one may think. In a professional environment this could go as little as a week.
I saw a general in a plant setup fart with a **** gas welder, was stupid as he bid the stuff and it added a bunch of finish, I would have brought in a 250 feeder before I start.
The hand that did it was a decent one, it turned out, he did a good job considering what his boss asked him to do but they would have a free new machine in a few days.

 

[sberry]

Does the MP come pre wired? Is it plug in 50A? I been out of touch, I think its a stand alone unit comes all outfitted? How much is it and again for production probably has its place. In a general, like farmshop, repair with some fab tosses in and mostly a steady diet of steel the 252 is plenty of poop.
As I elude to the 252 will do heavy steel but the math above applies to light sheet which both machines could do. The 252 can do a lot of work the 211 really cant do or do at a rate so slow it becomes a drag and the cost difference between the 2 units is soon gone.
The 252 should have number 8 wire to the outlet. Its the machine those ready made cords are made for.

 

[zmotorsports]

i have both a 251 and a 350p at home. it just depends on what your doing, the 252 has a smaller gun for tight places but the 350p is more balls and can get larger jobs done quicker. i dont use the pulse on the 350p we just use it as a usual mig welder. it just depends on your means

Agreed. We have a 350P and a MM251 at work and I also have an MM251 at my home shop and the vast majority of my work I reach for the MM251 at work.

I've had my 251 for many years now and I've run a **** load of wire thru it and never had one issue. My previous Lincoln 185 didn't hold a candle to it across the board. Unless you're doing really thick materials on a regular basis I just can't see justifying a 350 but a 211 would fall short for many of the projects I do.

Similar here. I have had my MM251 at home since new and have run many spools of wire through it without ever an issue. I had a Lincoln SP-255 previously that welded ok but it was a microprocessor version and I started having issues with the microprocessor and decided to go blue instead. The MM251 will perform great over a wide range of material thicknesses and even on thick materials works well. If you weld more .75" and up vs. .375" and under you may want to look into the 350P but the MM251 should be a high contender for anything under that .375" or even .5" material thickness.

Something else to consider is duty cycle. Looking over the spec sheets the 252 doesn't hit 100% duty until you go down to about 150A. While the 350P hits 100% at around 240A.

60% on the 252 is at 200A, 60% on the 350P is 300A.

Depending on how you weld that along could make it worth the jump to the larger machine. Just something to consider.

The specs are definitely on the conservative side compared to actual real world conditions. I have pushed my machine and had the fan come on but I have never been up against my duty cycle.

This. I've found Miller's duty cycle figures to be very conservative.

^^Exactly.

I think also. I had someone tell me I needed to upgrade the ground clamp to brass or tweeco style ground clamp. Which I did. Then I was told to open up and get inside the welder. Tighten the green wire ground mounted to the back of the case. Those two things should make a big difference in the quality of welding the with that machine.

I did install the better ground clamp on mine as I didn't care for the stamped steel grounding clamp but I have done that on all my welders right out of the box, both at home and work.

Mike.

 

[skipnay]

Well guys I decided on this... Couldn't beat the price either. Right at $2,000.00 Made my day yesterday. Can't wait to get some free time to try it out!

 

[Superbec]

Say money isn't an object in this fight. Since Zoro has a 30% off coupon coming in the next 10-12 days. I'm looking at the Millermatic 252, and Millermatic 350p. I will be using this for home use but I always seem to find myself needing something bigger so that is why I have decided not to 211 or 212. I have a Miller 250DX tig machine already. I also have a hobart 140 mig machine for portability and 110 usage.

I have 200 amp service coming into my garage. That being said I also have 40 panels with maybe 16 used at this point. So electric isn't an issue. Do I need the pulsar or is it worth it? Can I go with a 252 and add pulsar or is that just stupid? We have used my tig for some bell housings, atv ramp repair, and a couple other things.

ok , so don't know exactly what your needs are , 252 will probably cover all your needs ever, what I would like to have for myself if money was not important is a 350 dynasty ... bell housings with a 250dx is on the limit .

now ... pulsed mig is a whole new level , doesn't matter if you do steel, stainless or aluminium , it will be just better , thick or thin

also maybe you'll want to do some spray transfer mig ... with pulse that's going to look amazing and 0 spatter

maybe you can go to a lws and try one ?

 

[skipnay]

Since I bought the 252. I'm in need of the single bottle holder lower metal piece. If any of you have the pan for the single bottle holder I will take it...