Help with Industrial Oven wiring

[Crank1]

Hello folks, I was hoping someone could provide a little assistance getting a curing oven going I just bought. The large ID tag says Wilson Manufacturing, in Long Beach, CA and I cannot seem to find anything where they built ovens, there is a couple small tags that say Heraeus, and Heraeus-cermalloy, which Heraeus does in fact make ovens, but I can’t find anything they made like this.

The oven looks mostly complete, aside from just trying to power it up. I looked at about everything in the box, and the 4 things that do not have anything hooked to them are the 2 black wires that go to the heater element, the 1 red wire that comes off the main on/off switch, and the ground that connects to the enclosure. Everything else seems like it’s got a place to connect to. Can anyone see anything that looks wrong or is it just a matter of connecting power to this somehow and firing it up?

 

[manwithtools]

If you don't understand the wiring on this, I'd suggest hiring someone to help who does. All the enclosures and fittings on that oven are explosion proof.

I'm not sure what you are curing, but if it's explosive, it needs to be done right, no shade tree electrician stuff here. Proper connections and other requirements are not something to be ignored in this case. It looks like it might have some interesting mods already.

 

[Crank1]

It does not need to be explosion proof, this is just the condition of the oven as purchased! It will be used to cure cerakote and maybe powder coat. I have a ok electrical understanding but there isn't a schematic plastered on the side or anything.

 

[manwithtools]

Kind of hard to tell from the pictures. I could make some guesses, but don't want to take you too far down a rabbit hole.

 

[66cj225]

I'm thinking 4 U shaped heating elements. Also 3 black feed fires into the elements, 2 of which are taped and disconnected on the contactor end. So as an old maintenance man, I'm feeling original 3 phase converted to 2 pole, the resistance of the elements and the contactor coil voltages would be the next thing to find out.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Looks like that lesson motor is 3 phase judging by the numbered winding leads.

What type and voltage power do u have?

 

[Crank1]

The data plate on the Leesen motor and the control panel for the oven both say single phase. I can't find any data on the elements at all, and I haven't even been able to find anything similar on google at all.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The data plate on the Leesen motor and the control panel for the oven both say single phase. I can't find any data on the elements at all, and I haven't even been able to find anything similar on google at all.

Can u post a pic of the plate please.

 

[nehog]

This thing has been modified, one of the two heaters has been disconnected (why?)

You could draw a schematic without too much difficulty, but you need to find out what the reason for one heater being disconnected is, also what voltage this unit is (I suspect 240 volts, but you never know with industrial equipment...) There appears to be taped splices on some wires, that needs to be addressed as well.

 

[Crank1]

Here are the 2 data plates, That's not to say the original is accurate tho.

 

[Crank1]

After looking again, there are actually 4 large fabric insulated wires coming into the heater in the bottom. 2 of the wires connect with terminals on top of the solenoid, and the other 2 are the ones that are taped up

 

[rockwithjason]

they abandoned one set of heater elements. you probably have one contactor for the fan (upper right), one for each set of elements (middle) and one for high temp lock out (bottom). the device in the top center of the box is probably the high temp switch. the controlling thermostat is probably the unit mounted above and right of the control box. I cant tell from the pictures where the power came in at. you will need to post more information on the thermostats for me to be any more help.

 

[Crank1]

I rang the wires for continuity. 1 of the unconnected wires went to heater 1 and 3, they are jumpers together, and the other went to 2 and 4 but the jumper was broken, I had a hell of a time getting all the nuts off the lug, but eventually got them all. I hope I didn't break anything, the individual elements are still showing some resistance so I'm guessing the connection wasn't broken anywhere despite the lugs just spinning.

The heater does have lights for "heater 1", and "heater 2" maybe the thermostat controls the demand?

 

[rockwithjason]

that would be the case but is this a two stage set up or a single stage set up.

 

[Marctrees]

Crank - Just curious -

If you don't require the explosion proof wiring for your environment, and if the oven supposedly only goes to 400f, why are you playing with this ?

Must be some advantages I don't know about. Marc

 

[Crank1]

Because I need an oven capable of 250 for cerakote, and 375 for powdercoat, this one is big enough to fit an assembled gun in, and it cost $205 as it sits, if I can simply power it up as is, I'm only out $205 plus a plug, wire and some connectors.

Jason, forgive my ignorance please, but if the wires connect elements 1-3 and 2-4, with separate wires, wouldn't these still remain isolated? The the solenoid makes and brings on either set?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Because I need an oven capable of 250 for cerakote, and 375 for powdercoat, this one is big enough to fit an assembled gun in, and it cost $205 as it sits, if I can simply power it up as is, I'm only out $205 plus a plug, wire and some connectors.

Jason, forgive my ignorance please, but if the wires connect elements 1-3 and 2-4, with separate wires, wouldn't these still remain isolated? The the solenoid makes and brings on either set?

I doubt u will be able to put a plug on this unit. It will most likely need to be hardwired.

 

[Marctrees]

At $205, understood. Marc

 

[manwithtools]

The the solenoid makes and brings on either set?

For terminologies sake, it's not a solenoid, its a contactor or relay (even though it works like a solenoid. I know, it's confusing sometimes)

 

[Marctrees]

Wylies - why not cord and plug?

He's not installing it in an location needing explosionproof.
Marc

 

[manwithtools]

I doubt u will be able to put a plug on this unit. It will most likely need to be hardwired.

That's an interesting point of view. It's an oven and it could be classified as industrial equipment in the strict interpretation, but if it's used in his garage and the Va requirements are similar to a residential oven, why could it not be connected with a cord and plug?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Im assuming it draws more than 50a.

But thats just a WAG since we have no info

 

[manwithtools]

Name plate says 13 amps.....

The motor is rated @ 2.9 amps at 230. That leaves about 10 amps for the heating elements.

 

[Crank1]

For terminologies sake, it's not a solenoid, its a contactor or relay (even though it works like a solenoid. I know, it's confusing sometimes)

Contactor, got it!

Wylies - why not cord and plug?

He's not installing it in an location needing explosionproof.
Marc

Thanks Marc! I was thinking of possibly running it off my plug for my welder, I already have to unplug all the time to switch from my tig to mig, so no harm in using another plug. It's not like this thing is going to be used every day all day! Small batch here and there of one coating or the other.

So I realize I need power to the main switch, the red wire with a wire but on it. That feeds power to the contactor to close the circuit. I just don't know what to do with the other 2 wires to the heating element

 

[Marctrees]

Ya, only thing is it really should be on a ckt protected at 20A.

230 of course.

There's alot of 12ga wiring in there, with no apparent internal protection. Marc

 

[Marctrees]

It sounds like you have a pretty good understanding there, What about temporary powering it up and seeing what temp it can achieve, then maybe explore the heater lead issue???

I mean I dunno, I'm not there but being an Industrial electrician years ago, after you looking it all over, that's what I would do.

Would be nice to have an clamp on at that time like to check heater and other amps.

Marc

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Name plate says 13 amps.....

The motor is rated @ 2.9 amps at 230. That leaves about 10 amps for the heating elements.

Aww ok.

I dont know how i missed that.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Contactor, got it!

Thanks Marc! I was thinking of possibly running it off my plug for my welder, I already have to unplug all the time to switch from my tig to mig, so no harm in using another plug. It's not like this thing is going to be used every day all day! Small batch here and there of one coating or the other.

So I realize I need power to the main switch, the red wire with a wire but on it. That feeds power to the contactor to close the circuit. I just don't know what to do with the other 2 wires to the heating element

Unfortunately, u probably wont be able to use the welder outlet, which i assume is a 6-xxr as the nameplate on the oven says 240/120 for voltage rating meaning u will need a 4-wire circuit.

 

[Norcal]

Unfortunately, u probably wont be able to use the welder outlet, which i assume is a 6-xxr as the nameplate on the oven says 240/120 for voltage rating meaning u will need a 4-wire circuit.

This! Since the data plate says 120/240V, but then I hate when equipment is marked as a single voltage, yet still requires a neutral.

 

[Crank1]

I wonder if I can just buy some extra wire and utilize my dryer plug.

I guess the thing that I'm getting stuck on, is where I assume each of the black wires gets 120 volts, as well as the red wire that is wire nutted. But where is the return? Like I said I think I have a decent understanding, but I'm certainly not an electrician!

 

[rockwithjason]

is there any more tags or info on the thermostats?

 

[Crank1]

Not that I can find. The other thing that makes me curious if I'm missing something is there is an open conduit port on the bottom of the housing, well 2, I 1" npt for what I assume was the main power, and the one in the bottom, probably 1/2" npt with nothing in it either. Any other holes are plugged

 

[rockwithjason]

in one of the pictures there is a white tag on the inside of the upper thermostat housing. take a pic of that. what is the voltage rating on the contactor coils? the pic of the indicator lights and control switches is incomplete. take better pics of that area. what is the resistance of the individual heating elements? also take a pic looking down on the bottom contactor

 

[Crank1]

I believe that tag just described how to adjust the temp settings but I'll snap a pic. You say the control and indicator light is incomplete? You mean from the outside? The only thing cut out is the main switch it says off/auto. I don't see any voltage markings on the contactor but I'll look.

 

[rockwithjason]

I believe that tag just described how to adjust the temp settings but I'll snap a pic. You say the control and indicator light is incomplete? You mean from the outside? The only thing cut out is the main switch it says off/auto. I don't see any voltage markings on the contactor but I'll look.

that answers my question about the switch.

 

[rockwithjason]

this drawing will give you a thermostatically controlled oven with overtemp protection. the over temp light will not be used with this


this is most likely how the tstat is built, you will have to ring out the connections with a meter to verify or find a tag and get the data sheet for the tstat to know for sure



this is the diagram for the motor. from what I can see in your pics the motor is wired for 230v

if the coils on the contactors are 120v you will need two hots and a neutral to make this work. if the coils are 230v then you don't need the neutral. if you want the files for these drawings the pm me your email and I will send them to you. hope that helps

 

[Crank1]

I took a bunch of pictures last night of everything, I just need to get them uploaded to photobucket so I can post them. The motor is wired with 2 red wires on the left side of the box. I'll have to pull the cover and check the wires against the 120 vs 240 wiring terminations. The thermostat housing didn't have any useful info

 

[Crank1]

 

[rockwithjason]

actually you did good with the thermostat. it's a united electric model 7bs
http://www.ueonline.com/bulletins/800-b.pdf


the contactor coils are 120v so you will need a neutral for those. I will analyze the pictures some more and get back with you.

 

[rockwithjason]

I need a clear pic of the wiring on the over temp switch. how many terminals are there and what wires attach to what?