220 ft run for 100 AMP service

[minytrker]

I am not an electrician so I do not know all the correct terminology but here are some pics and descriptions to hopefully explain better. This is the breaker box (200amp) I have outside my house directly below my meter that I want to tie into to run electricity 225ft to my shop. I removed the cover for the picture.

This is the breaker box I have in my shop currently with a 200 amp breaker (came with it)
Its 225 ft from breaker box to breaker box.

Here is the shop

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Well that sux.

U need to replace that main panel on the pole before u do any other work.

Its a fire hazard.

That is a federal pacific electric panel.

And judging by the rusty lugs on the neutral bar it has been exposed to moisture.

 

[ard]

I am not an electrician so I do not know all the correct terminology but here are some pics and descriptions to hopefully explain better. This is the breaker box (200amp) I have outside my house directly below my meter that I want to tie into to run electricity 225ft to my shop. I removed the cover for the picture.

This is the breaker box I have in my shop currently with a 200 amp breaker (came with it)
Its 225 ft from breaker box to breaker box.

Here is the shop

20 posts ago you were talking about running 'from' the pole.

What happened to that? No pole in the pictures.. New plan? Pole something else? What's up with the pole the FIL said you should use??

 

[wyliesdiesels]

20 posts ago you were talking about running for the pole.

What happened to that? No pole in the pictures.. New plan? Pole something else? What uo with the pole the FIL said you should use??

If u look at the pic, that panel isnt mounted on a building as there is wood behind it.

So i assume this is the panel on the pole that he referred to.

 

[minytrker]

If u look at the pic, that panel isnt mounted on a building as there is wood behind it.

So i assume this is the panel on the pole that he referred to.

That's correct

 

[Bert_]

Judging by that picture I wouldn't invest much time or money into bringing power out of that panel. I'm not going to tell you that it's going to burst into flames like some others may have you think. But it is an FPE Stab-Lock and they don't exactly have the best reputation.

I would definitely plan on replacement. Assuming there isn't much else on the pole it shouldn't take long to replace the panel. I would guess 4hrs or less

 

[minytrker]

I have a brand new 200 amp box to replace it with BUT that means shutting off electricity to my house to change out. With a wife and 2 little kids that's easy said than done but if it has to be done then it is what it is.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I have a brand new 200 amp box to replace it with BUT that means shutting off electricity to my house to change out. With a wife and 2 little kids that's easy said than done but if it has to be done then it is what it is.

yes definitely replace it before adding the shop circuit.

If u add the conduit for the shop feeder to that panel, it will just be one more thing u will have to deal with during the swap making it potentially harder and extending the length of time the power is out.

u most likely need to get a permit and will need to have the PoCo disconnect and reconnect the power.

How many other houses are fed with the transformer that feeds your property?

 

[minytrker]

No permits where I am at. I am the only house on the transformer.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

No permits where I am at. I am the only house on the transformer.

well lucky u.

Call PoCo and schedule time for disconnect.

Then prep everything that u can beforehand for the swap including loosening conduit lock rings, disconnecting circuits not needed for immediate use, remove breakers to circuits not immediately needed, to make panel lighter etc.

Due to the visible rust on the neutral bar i suspect u will have issues with the service entrance lugs as well so u may need some thread/rust penetrater unless u have enough slack that u can just cut the wire.

Make sure to use a torque wrench on the lugs and torque to proper spec.

Also looks like u have doubled up wire on the 200a breaker at the top which i assume feeds your house feeder. Do these smaller wires go to the device on the left thats just dangling in the panel? I assuming this a lightning arrestor. Does it have any labels?

If it is, I highly recommend replacing it. Someone didnt install the original correctly because the breaker lugs shouldnt have 2 disproportionately sized wires under them.

 

[minytrker]

No lables and the wires on the top lugs go to it. Years ago before I owned the house they used to have problems with lightning ruining all the electronics in the house. The power company came and did something and it hasn't been an issue since. I don't know what the power company did (previous owner passed away) but we haven't had any issues. I'm going to start looking for an electrician to handle changing all this out I think. Problem around here is finding one who knows what they are doing.

 

[minytrker]

Getting bids this week to get the 200 amp panel and the meter box above it replace while the electricity is turned off. What should I expect to pay in labor for a licensed electrician to remove my old box in pics above and install new one, meter box and connect to the 100 amp feed to the shop (already ran) to the new breaker box?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

No labels and the wires on the top lugs go to it. Years ago before I owned the house they used to have problems with lightning ruining all the electronics in the house. The power company came and did something and it hasn't been an issue since. I don't know what the power company did (previous owner passed away) but we haven't had any issues. I'm going to start looking for an electrician to handle changing all this out I think. Problem around here is finding one who knows what they are doing.

Yeah its a lightning arrester but it shouldnt have been installed the way it was under the main lugs with larger wire.

Make sure to get a new one.

If u feel up to it u could probably get it done yourself. Not that hard. Its mounted on a pole which is way easier to deal with than a flush or semi-flush mounted panel.

Make sure the ground rods are up to snuff.

If u only have one i would add a second.

Getting bids this week to get the 200 amp panel and the meter box above it replace while the electricity is turned off. What should I expect to pay in labor for a licensed electrician to remove my old box in pics above and install new one, meter box and connect to the 100 amp feed to the shop (already ran) to the new breaker box?

Prices vary widely area to area. Best thing u can do is get bids from 3 different guys.

Make sure to ask lots of questions. Come up with questions before hand. This will help figure out if they have any clue as to what theyre doing.

 

[minytrker]

Got one quote for $800 and they would supply everything but the breaker box (which I have) to make everything new on the pole including wire and tie in my shop with wires already ran.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Thats a decent price.

Hopefully the PoCo isnt a pain.

They gonna replace the lightning arrestor?

Make sure the ground rod gets reconnected. I would add another as well.

 

[183beast]

Kind of a hi-jack, but still on topic. I have a 220ft run at 100amps as well. I was wondering if the 2/0 2/0 1 4 MHF will be adequate with the neutral being smaller? Will it meet code? Any input?

 

[pattenp]

Kind of a hi-jack, but still on topic. I have a 220ft run at 100amps as well. I was wondering if the 2/0 2/0 1 4 MHF will be adequate with the neutral being smaller? Will it meet code? Any input?

You need to estimate the 120V loads to see what the potential loads will be on the neutral to see if #1Al is good enough for 220ft. My feeling is it's not worth the $ savings and should use the same size neutral as the phase conductors.

 

[minytrker]

Bought a new lightning arrester and it seems alot different than what I have. I showed them a picture of what I have and they sold me a box that gets mounted on the outside of your breaker box with a led indicator. Said as long as its green your good and its working and once the its not green you replace it. It has really small wires IMO, I didnt look how it installs since the electrician will be handling it.


Also got everything trenched for electrical, water and internet. Hopefully tomorrow will get it all ran.

 

[ard]

Bought a new lightning arrester and it seems alot different than what I have. I showed them a picture of what I have and they sold me a box that gets mounted on the outside of your breaker box with a led indicator. Said as long as its green your good and its working and once the its not green you replace it. It has really small wires IMO, I didnt look how it installs since the electrician will be handling it.
.

With a world at your fingertips, virtually anything you need to know is right there- why leave it to the counter salesman at some supply house?!?!

Does this thing they sold you with a green LED have a name. mfg and part number?

 

[minytrker]

 

[minytrker]

Is that the correct part?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

That one will work however what is the brand of your new panel?

 

[minytrker]

Square D Homeline

 

[Ijhursh]

I originally was getting a separate 200 amp service put in but the electric company wants to much so I am going to run 100 amp service off my main 200 amp service for my house.



What size wire and pipe do I need to run 100 amp service 220 ft under ground?

I have a little lees distance than you but I am using 2/2/2/4 copper. Check local codes as I am running through conduit and mine have to be individual wires.


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[minytrker]

Well its all hooked up and the shop is wired. Everything went really smooth.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I have a little lees distance than you but I am using 2/2/2/4 copper. Check local codes as I am running through conduit and mine have to be individual wires.


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how long is the run?

And why do u have to use individual wires?

Well its all hooked up and the shop is wired. Everything went really smooth.

thats great u got rid of that POS box...

 

[Ijhursh]

Probably 145 ft, in the county in Florida I live in, if it is in conduit it has to be individual wires. I am going copper instead of aluminum due to it being a better conductor. I have to have a 100a breaker at the house box outside and a 100a disconnect in the garage since it is detached. So I am running 2/2/2/4 and it is good for 125a, but I am only going to run 100a


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[wyliesdiesels]

Probably 145 ft, in the county in Florida I live in, if it is in conduit it has to be individual wires. I am going copper instead of aluminum due to it being a better conductor. I have to have a 100a breaker at the house box outside and a 100a disconnect in the garage since it is detached. So I am running 2/2/2/4 and it is good for 125a, but I am only going to run 100a


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well at that distance u couldve saved money and used #3 cu or saved even more money by using #1 al.

Nothing wrong with the aluminum conductors available today.

What else could u have used instead of individual conductors?

 

[Ijhursh]

I assume purchased cable that could be buried, but since I was going under a 40' paver deck by a pool I went with conduit. I went up to 2 and used copper as the cost was not that much more and I like over engineering since I have a lot of tools in the garage, welder, ac, lift, compressor, etc. and if I decide I need more the copper will carry it, also it is a better conductor and will run cooler.


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[wyliesdiesels]

I assume purchased cable that could be buried, but since I was going under a 40' paver deck by a pool I went with conduit. I went up to 2 and used copper as the cost was not that much more and I like over engineering since I have a lot of tools in the garage, welder, ac, lift, compressor, etc. and if I decide I need more the copper will carry it, also it is a better conductor and will run cooler.


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The only other product u could use is either UF-b direct bury cable(which i dont recommend) or MHF which is just assembled individual conductors. MHF can be direct buried but its better to run it in conduit.

Aluminum when installed correctly can run just as cool as copper. There is no gain in using copper these days other than a lighter wallet. And your panel may not accept breakers larger than 100a so u may already be limited to 100a.

But its your money so......

 

[runit]

So now we are in 2023......what do I need to buy to run 100 amps 200 ft?

Still 2-2-2-4 Al mobile home feeder direct bury?

Will never use 100a at one time as far as I know, but might as well future proof it.

100 amp breaker at the house and 100 amp breaker at the new garage.

I've been hearing 4/0, but am skeptical if that is needed.

Thanks!

 

[Innovate1]

So now we are in 2023......what do I need to buy to run 100 amps 200 ft?

Still 2-2-2-4 Al mobile home feeder direct bury?

Will never use 100a at one time as far as I know, but might as well future proof it.

100 amp breaker at the house and 100 amp breaker at the new garage.

I've been hearing 4/0, but am skeptical if that is needed.

Thanks!

Laws of physics haven't changed. #2 was never good for 100A (in most applications) and not for 200 ft. It's almost exactly the same as the first poster in this thread. Lots of good information on this has already been posted here. No need to repeat it.

 

[mm08822]

#2 Al is only good for 90 Amps w/o compensating for distance. 70A @ 200 ft.
4/0 is good for 150A @ 200ft. You may only be able to connect a 125A cb in the existing panel.

You need to decide the likelyhood of future use and how fat your wallet is now.

 

[mm08822]

This thread started in 2016!!! 7 years later and still no power. Run the 2-2-2-4 and get on with it. Like they say, "sit or get off the pot".

 

[mike93lx]

This thread started in 2016!!! 7 years later and still no power. Run the 2-2-2-4 and get on with it. Like they say, "sit or get off the pot".

That's not the OP. It's a new user that revived an old post

 

[runit]

yea...sure did. lots of good info here, just catching it up to current times.

Laws of physics haven't changed. #2 was never good for 100A (in most applications) and not for 200 ft. It's almost exactly the same as the first poster in this thread. Lots of good information on this has already been posted here. No need to repeat it.

NEVER?
i see data that it can hold 600v / 135a

I start with 120V and end with 115v at 180ft (the real number to the sub panel....then wiring of circuits from there) when at 80 amps per an online calc. Will I notice a difference in 115.47 volts and 116.91 volts? That is the calculated differecen between 2/0 and 4/0 at 80 amps at 180 ft.

most likely will only utilize 60-80 amps, but not a bad idea to understand what it CAN do.

and this thread is all over the place. Half say they have used 2/0 MHF for 30 years and some say it'll blow your house up.

There is no stand out, do-it-this-way, answer

hence why i wanted to restart the convo and people can get up to speed.

was curious if any NEW (since 2017) runs of wire in similar distances have been done, and what was used.

dang, you get crucified for starting a new thread and crucified if you search and try to glean info.

 

[mike93lx]

yea...sure did. lots of good info here, just catching it up to current times.


NEVER?
i see data that it can hold 600v / 135a

I start with 120V and end with 115v at 180ft (the real number to the sub panel....then wiring of circuits from there) when at 80 amps per an online calc. Will I notice a difference in 115.47 volts and 116.91 volts? That is the calculated differecen between 2/0 and 4/0 at 80 amps at 180 ft.

most likely will only utilize 60-80 amps, but not a bad idea to understand what it CAN do.

and this thread is all over the place. Half say they have used 2/0 MHF for 30 years and some say it'll blow your house up.

There is no stand out, do-it-this-way, answer

hence why i wanted to restart the convo and people can get up to speed.

was curious if any NEW (since 2017) runs of wire in similar distances have been done, and what was used.

dang, you get crucified for starting a new thread and crucified if you search and try to glean info.

600v is meaningless.

Unless it is feeding the entire load of a dwelling, #2 cannot be breakered above 90a. That's simple and clear.

The voltage drop calcs are also simple and clear. Your drop will be higher than recommended at 200ft, so you either breaker it lower or increase wire size.

If the feed is 240v, that's what you use in the Calc, not 120v.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Similar distance here, have a roll of 2/0 aluminum here to put underground for the shop when it finally happens. I didn't want to limit my options.

 

[runit]

600v is just another capcity data point. just copied/pasted from a catalog.

will breaker at 80 amps most likely.

 

[runit]

Similar distance here, have a roll of 2/0 aluminum here to put underground for the shop when it finally happens. I didn't want to limit my options.

what amperage are you planning?

how are you going to land it at the shop? a 'lugged' main panel and then feed a regular breaker panel?