My attempt to make a better hose coupler

[dnschmidt]

News flash!!! Most professional automotive repair shops run their air tools at full compressor power, which since they all have two stage compressors is something between 150-175 psi. Should they use regulators to bring this down to 120 psi so that they have 90 psi at the tool: yes. Do they: NO. 99% of the time any normal air tool will easily handle this abuse. One exception is an impacting (reactionless) ratchet. The design of these tools makes them intolerant of excessive air pressure.

 

[carbon]

News flash!!! Most professional automotive repair shops run their air tools at full compressor power, which since they all have two stage compressors is something between 150-175 psi. Should they use regulators to bring this down to 120 psi so that they have 90 psi at the tool: yes. Do they: NO. 99% of the time any normal air tool will easily handle this abuse. One exception is an impacting (reactionless) ratchet. The design of these tools makes them intolerant of excessive air pressure.

Interesting. Why? There's a regulator right there at the compressor, correct?

Why not lower the pressure just for making it easier/safer to insert and remove a tool? Especially since most shops doubtlessly use non-safety couplers like the prevost?

 

[redmondjp]

Interesting. Why? There's a regulator right there at the compressor, correct?

Why not lower the pressure just for making it easier/safer to insert and remove a tool? Especially since most shops doubtlessly use non-safety couplers like the prevost?

As he stated, most shops run unregulated air systems - I can't remember seeing a regulator in any auto repair shop, except in a body shop paint booth. Most mechanics like the higher pressure - it gives your impact guns that extra kick.

 

[VocaTexas]

Contrary to Todd's comment, I cuss my connectors plenty, especially when I pinch a finger and get a blood blister trying to connect/disconnect tools. I'd be VERY interested in trying a couple of those out. My wife refuses to even try to air up a tire because she can't plug the air chuck into the hose. Not a real world problem? Yes, it is....

 

[Leveleer]

I find couplers that don't retain the coupling during disconnection completely unacceptable which is why every one that I have designed does just that.
The one I show in the video is a high flow version. I have also made some that have lesser flow but with a extremely low engagement force requirement.

 

[carbon]

As he stated, most shops run unregulated air systems - I can't remember seeing a regulator in any auto repair shop, except in a body shop paint booth. Most mechanics like the higher pressure - it gives your impact guns that extra kick.

Well, I guess they also like random explosive male connectors slapping about denting their client's cars and having to apply excessive force to couple tools. You crazy mechanics, you.

 

[Brian_WK]

So, to my point, to test plugging in force at the plasma cutter at the end of the line you should have the test line at 90psi, not 122psi. Unless you're plugging stuff in at the compressor and not at the tool. Not sure why you'd do that.

I get that your plug would help you at the 125psi compressor vs the Prevost, but do people switch hoses at the compressor much?

Pressure drop only happens when there is flow. Not sure how many people disconnect and connect their plasma when they are cutting but I'm guessing 0.

I would be in for something like this. It solves alot of problems I think. Ever tried plugging or unplugging a coupler in with greasy hands/gloves. How about with winter gloves. And for most if I could get a coupler that releases quietly I would be thrilled. The sound my hose makes with Air compressor regulator turned up to 150psi is brutal on my tinnitus. So much so that I did install a 3 way ball valve that drains the coupler and hose and vents it into a muffler.

Brian

 

[Leveleer]

And for most if I could get a coupler that releases quietly I would be thrilled. The sound my hose makes with Air compressor regulator turned up to 150psi is brutal on my tinnitus. So much so that I did install a 3 way ball valve that drains the coupler and hose and vents it into a muffler.

Brian

This is precisely why I started working on compressed air systems last year. (my poor ears)
Help is on the way!

 

[Schurkey]

With regular "dangerous" hose couplers, I see three different styles. I believe that some of the females can accept more than one style male. What is the standard for garage work? Can somebody sort them out for me?

I won't get into Euro or Asian couplers. I'm discussing North American styles only.

There are five main styles. These four, plus ARO. I thought I had re-posed these photos to include ARO, but apparently not. These are all 1/4" bodies. There are other styles for 3/8 and larger bodies.

Milton "V" is a high-flow coupler, it may be the same as a Euro high-flow, but I haven't confirmed that. Note the larger internal diameter.
The Milton "M" is the same as "Industrial Interchange", probably the most-popular style in the USA. Compression testers, leakdown testers and other factory-made tools use the Industrial Interchange system. It's also a US Military standard. You go into some poorly-stocked hardware store, they're going to sell only the "M" style, probably as a crappy Chinese import.
The Milton "T" is a Tru-Flate style, also called "Automotive Interchange". Shortest pilot in the industry.
The Milton "L" is the Lincoln style. Longest pilot in the industry.
Not shown: Milton "A", the ARO style.

The quick-disconnect bodies can be had as "universal", by which I mean they'll accept three of the five styles. I had a "universal" body for a while, but it leaked perpetually with my "T" coupler plugs--the ones with the short pilot. I think they sealed just fine with "M" plugs, and they also fit "A", but I didn't have any of those. So the "Universal" coupler bodies fit "A-T-M" style plugs.

A coupler body that fits Milton "V" will also fit "M" (and "A"???) plugs, but with reduced flow. However, a coupler body for "M" will not fit "V".

I recently converted to Milton V couplers in my shop. IF (big IF) I was willing to stay with Industrial Interchange, my shop would be set up with TST/Oetiker B1 swing couplers. Zero insertion force (except for seal friction) and self-venting when disconnecting. They're somewhat scarce although Amazon has some styles. The B1 is compatible with Industrial Interchange. TST/Oetiker makes other styles also, so be careful.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000L9V74S/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Mike.ASC]

I would hate to think that I am inventing solutions to problems that don't exist. I certainly have better things to do.
I ran a large production shop for over 30 years with many many air hoses and quick disconnects and no one ever complained about the couplings either.

The first time I noticed this problem was when I bought my first Milton V high flow coupler. I have used quite a few of them including similar types and they all give me problems connecting at high pressures.
I started looking into this because of the problem "I was having".

I noticed the same thing when I switched to the Milton "v" style couplers , thought I was possibly imagining it. I run 150 psi compressor pressure in my shop. Add me to your list if you decide to manufacture and sell them I would definitely like to try a few out and I would be happy to pay for them.

Mike

 

[ovrrdrive]

Pressure drop only happens when there is flow. Not sure how many people disconnect and connect their plasma when they are cutting but I'm guessing 0.

Brian

I started to explain that to him last night but he's just in here starting **** and I wasn't in the mood... lol

I don't get paid to train monkeys on my free time.

 

[cooljoe57]

I won't get into Euro or Asian couplers. I'm discussing North American styles only.

There are five main styles. These four, plus ARO. I thought I had re-posed these photos to include ARO, but apparently not. These are all 1/4" bodies. There are other styles for 3/8 and larger bodies.

Milton "V" is a high-flow coupler, it may be the same as a Euro high-flow, but I haven't confirmed that. Note the larger internal diameter.
The Milton "M" is the same as "Industrial Interchange", probably the most-popular style in the USA. Compression testers, leakdown testers and other factory-made tools use the Industrial Interchange system. It's also a US Military standard. You go into some poorly-stocked hardware store, they're going to sell only the "M" style, probably as a crappy Chinese import.
The Milton "T" is a Tru-Flate style, also called "Automotive Interchange". Shortest pilot in the industry.
The Milton "L" is the Lincoln style. Longest pilot in the industry.
Not shown: Milton "A", the ARO style.

The quick-disconnect bodies can be had as "universal", by which I mean they'll accept three of the five styles. I had a "universal" body for a while, but it leaked perpetually with my "T" coupler plugs--the ones with the short pilot. I think they sealed just fine with "M" plugs, and they also fit "A", but I didn't have any of those. So the "Universal" coupler bodies fit "A-T-M" style plugs.

A coupler body that fits Milton "V" will also fit "M" (and "A"???) plugs, but with reduced flow. However, a coupler body for "M" will not fit "V".

I recently converted to Milton V couplers in my shop. IF (big IF) I was willing to stay with Industrial Interchange, my shop would be set up with TST/Oetiker B1 swing couplers. Zero insertion force (except for seal friction) and self-venting when disconnecting. They're somewhat scarce although Amazon has some styles. The B1 is compatible with Industrial Interchange. TST/Oetiker makes other styles also, so be careful.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000L9V74S/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I'm not familiar with the milton brand, but from the picture the milton "V" looks like a 3/8 body of the "M" (industrial interchange). If thats the case Oetiker offers the swing coupler in 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" industrial interchange.

 

[houdni]

if you can ever find this coupler...this one was the best one i have found...the top will is a universal clip adapter to multiple type of couplers...theres no air pressure until you slide the bottom half up...

to release...slide down the slide releases the air...push the release coupler at the top release the air tool with a little pop...

a bought a few a few years ago but have not been able to find any more as my tool vendor discontinued the product...

any help finding this one guys? yo can tell how often i used this by all the wear

 

[Leveleer]

I'm not familiar with the milton brand, but from the picture the milton "V" looks like a 3/8 body of the "M" (industrial interchange). If thats the case Oetiker offers the swing coupler in 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" industrial interchange.

Internally the V style is totally different then the 3/8 M styyle.

Hopefully I will have all the Miltons purged from my system soon.

 

[Musicinabottle]

if you can ever find this coupler...this one was the best one i have found...the top will is a universal clip adapter to multiple type of couplers...theres no air pressure until you slide the bottom half up...

to release...slide down the slide releases the air...push the release coupler at the top release the air tool with a little pop...

a bought a few a few years ago but have not been able to find any more as my tool vendor discontinued the product...

any help finding this one guys? yo can tell how often i used this by all the wear

I have one of them. I love it!

 

[Ms6peters]

I have one of them. I love it!

A similar version of this is made by Coilhose Pneumatics....available on amazon.
Been using for last 1 year. Easy to use. it does add a bit more bulk.


http://www.jcsmithinc.com/image/cache/data/pneumatics/Coilhose-5-in-1-250x250.jpg

 

[carbon]

Pressure drop only happens when there is flow.

Ah, I see! I didn't know that. Why does that happen, physics-wise? Please don't make fun, I really don't know this stuff. I see why the drop would happen immediately, but why wouldn't the pressure quickly build back up if the line psi was much greater than the max tool discharge psi?

Not sure how many people disconnect and connect their plasma when they are cutting but I'm guessing 0.

You misunderstand; I wasn't talking about attaching/detaching the hose while using the plasma. Just referring to the act of attaching/detaching as the OP had brought up.

 

[carbon]

I started to explain that to him last night but he's just in here starting **** and I wasn't in the mood... lol

I don't get paid to train monkeys on my free time.

:supergay:

 

[ovrrdrive]

gay

Yeah that was a curt reply on my part. What can I say, It was a long day.

I did a quick search and found the video I was looking for. Check it out when you get a chance. It explains it really well.

Happy New Year.

 

[ijroorda]

I can't say that I had ever thought much about how difficult it is to connect V-style couplers under pressure. Now that I've read this thread, though, I'm sure I'll notice. Thanks a lot!

 

[6PTsocket]

I have noticed that connecting under oressure is a PITA. I just assumed we were stuck with it. Good luck on your invention.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Leveleer]

The positive helpful comments I much appreciate. Thank you.
I ordered a 1/4 Legree coupler and the Coilhose Pneumatics mentioned earlier to see how they compare to my latest.
Testing will begin next week.

 

[All]

Frank, it's hard not to like good 'ol murican cando and ingenuity. Thanks for your sharing your efforts and progress.

It is easy to discount drama, however, whether feigned or sincere. Human kind is a cruel bunch, deeply steeped in skepticism. I suggest that you make a new video, and invite innocent, unsuspecting participants to disconnect each air line, and film them doing it for the first time, with no other instruction from you other than to disconnect the line.

Film the authentic reactions of the participants, which will sufficiently speak for themselves, without absolutely ******* the BS meter like any "look at what I made and how much better it is than anyone else's" self assessment otherwise might do.

The issue isn't that you were being overly dramatic... the issue is that your video comes across that way, no matter how you actually felt. And that first impression is going to be a difficult hurdle for some of your prospective customers to overcome.

 

[Leveleer]

Frank, it's hard not to like good 'ol murican cando and ingenuity. Thanks for your sharing your efforts and progress.

It is easy to discount drama, however, whether feigned or sincere. Human kind is a cruel bunch, deeply steeped in skepticism. I suggest that you make a new video, and invite innocent, unsuspecting participants to disconnect each air line, and film them doing it for the first time, with no other instruction from you other than to disconnect the line.

Film the authentic reactions of the participants, which will sufficiently speak for themselves, without absolutely ******* the BS meter like any "look at what I made and how much better it is than anyone else's" self assessment otherwise might do.

The issue isn't that you were being overly dramatic... the issue is that your video comes across that way, no matter how you actually felt. And that first impression is going to be a difficult hurdle for some of your prospective customers to overcome.

Excellent criticism. Thanks for taking the time.

 

[jjkrjh]

We use Parker couplers and appear to be an older version of these.

http://www.parker.com/Literature/Quick Coupling/catalog_sections/EZ Series-Catalog 3800_SectionA.pdf

The coupler is unpressurized when connected, the lower coller slides up pessurizing the hose. The lower coller can also be turned locking in position if needed. The hose cannot be disconnected without depressurizing with the lower coller first and then disconncting as normal. Extremely easy to do, can be done one handed. Extremely durable also, very few failures. I will try to get a part number of what we have and see if it is still available or if the the linked one is the new and improved.

 

[Leveleer]

We use Parker couplers and appear to be an older version of these.

http://www.parker.com/Literature/Quick Coupling/catalog_sections/EZ Series-Catalog 3800_SectionA.pdf

The coupler is unpressurized when connected, the lower coller slides up pessurizing the hose. The lower coller can also be turned locking in position if needed. The hose cannot be disconnected without depressurizing with the lower coller first and then disconncting as normal. Extremely easy to do, can be done one handed. Extremely durable also, very few failures. I will try to get a part number of what we have and see if it is still available or if the the linked one is the new and improved.

It seems to be similar in function to the CoilHose Pneumatics I just ordered.

Thanks

 

[Leveleer]

Today I noticed something interesting. I checked the back pressure across a 1/4" Milton M style coupler and then inserted the plug into a Menards "High FLow" Milton V clone and the back pressure was much greater.
I suspect this also true of the actual Milton V but haven't tested it yet.
The cause might be because the different length plugs open the internal valve differing amounts. This needs to be investigated further.

 

[carbon]

Yeah that was a curt reply on my part. What can I say, It was a long day.

I did a quick search and found the video I was looking for. Check it out when you get a chance. It explains it really well.

Happy New Year.

Hey, now that's a great vid on this subject! And I appreciate your response, thank you.

I was doing what he showed at the beginning, namely setting my regulator at the compressor at about 103psi so when I used my tool it would drop to 90psi. I had no idea the hose diameter, length and fittings also adversely affected the psi drop even more at the end of the hose. Just thought pressure is pressure, maybe like how water pressure behaves (or not?). I am obviously not an engineer. Anyway, it'd be cool to know the reason those factors affect pressure drop, but the vid definitely shows they do.

So, yes, the OP's product definitely is needed, and hats off to him! I get it! If he brings his product to market, he should include a link to that vid for fools like me.

I'm surprised the insurance industry hasn't already mandated such a coupler already, with hearing damage, other bodily and product injury happening.

And I already have a (now obsolete?) small air system with all Prevost safety couplers, sigh…

 

[gearhead1]

We use Parker couplers and appear to be an older version of these.

http://www.parker.com/Literature/Quick Coupling/catalog_sections/EZ Series-Catalog 3800_SectionA.pdf

The coupler is unpressurized when connected, the lower coller slides up pessurizing the hose. The lower coller can also be turned locking in position if needed. The hose cannot be disconnected without depressurizing with the lower coller first and then disconncting as normal. Extremely easy to do, can be done one handed. Extremely durable also, very few failures. I will try to get a part number of what we have and see if it is still available or if the the linked one is the new and improved.

This looks Like what was in the factory I worked at. No issue connecting hoses, it's never under pressure. A solution to the problem exists, perhaps the issue will come down to cost. These are about $30 each.

 

[carbon]

I found a similar one to the Parker and Coilhose. Made by Powertank and $30.

The Coilhose is ~$16 and accepts 5 different types of plugs, whereas the Powertank takes four plugs and is about 2x the price. Parker takes only Industrial, someone above said it cost $30.

 

[carbon]

Also, Legris is now owned by Parker and it seems the twist coupler mentioned earlier in this thread is discontinued. I couldn't find it on Parker's site and it's listed discontinued on Grainger. YMMV.

 

[jjkrjh]

We use Parker couplers and appear to be an older version of these.

http://www.parker.com/Literature/Quick Coupling/catalog_sections/EZ Series-Catalog 3800_SectionA.pdf

The coupler is unpressurized when connected, the lower coller slides up pessurizing the hose. The lower coller can also be turned locking in position if needed. The hose cannot be disconnected without depressurizing with the lower coller first and then disconncting as normal. Extremely easy to do, can be done one handed. Extremely durable also, very few failures. I will try to get a part number of what we have and see if it is still available or if the the linked one is the new and improved.

The couplers that we are using are no longer available. We do have the ones that I linked to, just haven't used any yet. I checked them out. They are very similar to our old ones other than turning the air on and off. Old couplers collar was pushed up to turn on the air, it also can be rotated 90' to lock. New couplers the air collar is on a 45' ramp pushes up and rotates at the same time.

 

[Leveleer]

Doing flow testing today.
Here is my latest prototype directly next to a Milton V.

 

[ilovevocs]

I like it. Price point would determine if I have it have it.

Best of luck, hope you have success however that is presently defined for you.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Leveleer]

I like it. Price point would determine if I have it have it.

Best of luck, hope you have success however that is presently defined for you.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you.
Price is not known at this point.
I won't be finished refining the design until I believe it's the best coupler you can buy.

 

[Leveleer]

In case anyone is interested, my initial flow tests results are:
Milton V with high flow plug <1 PSI pressure drop at 30CFM@90PSI
Milton V with standard industrial interchange plug 5PSI at 30CFM@90PSI
Milton M style with standard plug 10 PSI at 30CFM@90PSI

My latest prototype 2PSI pressure drop at 30CFM@90PSI

I'm working to reduce the 2 to less then 1.

 

[bigredmf]

Nice pressure drop with that design if your testing to industry standards. Attached is a flow chart for Parker HF couplings, Made in America and Designed in America. My guess is they spent considerable engineering resources to make gains in this design. They tend to be extremely conservative with their flow ratings. Granted this is not a easily connect under pressure design but is a high flow design

In regards to the Oetiker swing couplers the same? coupler is cataloged by Fairview fittings and a reasonable price should be 30-40$ each for a 1/4" or 3/8" body size.

Respectfully

Red

 

[bigredmf]

As a comparison to the Parker High Flow design here is their standard 20 series flow chart.

Red

 

[bigredmf]

Another safety coupler you may want to consider is the Coilhose 150CSE.

Should be had for well < 20$

This falls in the non marring style with a composite body.

Red

 

[bigredmf]

Here is another safety coupler to consider

Foster SV3003 <20$

They offer a push button coupler as well but your looking at 40$ +/-

Red