Looking for a Two Post Lift Suitable for Storing a Car?

[Sandblower]

Getting ready to start a new garage. I would like a two post lift that can also store a car. I'm in CA so need to something made for some ground shaking.

Only one I can find that does this is Mohawk.

Been searching for a while now and need to make a decision on a lift within the next 1-2 weeks so I know the slab requirements and where I will place it.

Any others out there?

 

[ndm]

Getting ready to start a new garage. I would like a two post lift that can also store a car. I'm in CA so need to something made for some ground shaking.

Only one I can find that does this is Mohawk.

Been searching for a while now and need to make a decision on a lift within the next 1-2 weeks so I know the slab requirements and where I will place it.

Any others out there?

The sales guy at greg smith in Atlanta told me yesterday that the 2 post is not good for storage. I would not feel so comfy in Cali with a 2 post for extended time periods. Get a 4 post.

 

[quicknova]

Any 2 post lift you should be able to park a car underneath. I have a rotary 10k and can have my nova on lift and wifes mazda 3 under it. If I have my duramax on the lift though and try to park car under the tires hang too low to park under it.

 

[Goleee33]

I would be fairly worried at the long term effects of having the suspension fully drooped out for extended periods of time. No scientific proof but doesn't seem like a good idea.

 

[Daedalus]

^+1 Storing a car long term on a 2 post lift with the suspension extended is a great way to ruin any rubber torsion bushings inside most modern suspensions.

 

[Sandblower]

Mohawk makes a wheel adapter attachment for their two post lift when wanting to store a car that cradles the tires thus not having the suspension extended and safer.

I am wondering if any other manufacturers offer something similar?

Here is Mohawks:

 

[Daedalus]

Ah, that's actually pretty cool. The idea of some kind of wheel adapter has crossed my mind, but I've never actually seen one. I was thinking more of a platform with the wheels supported by the arms directly below to keep the loads vertical. Bet those Mohawk arms are heavy to counteract all the torsion due to the offset load!

 

[lakeroadster]

Temecula, CA.... Looking for a Two Post Lift Suitable for Storing a Car?

Are you concerned about earthquakes?

 

[ct03911]

I store my track car on a two post. I let it down occasionally when nice weather allows me to pull my motorcycle and lawn tractor out from underneath.
I have asked in a car guy/track guy forum for someone to post some written white paper about the detrimental effects of storing a car on a two post.
No one has ever produced a shred of evidence.
Best guess was as posted above, perhaps the bushings.
I like the utility of a two post so I'll just keep letting the car down as I can.
I would have no idea about earthquakes.
That sounds like a question for a real engineer.

 

[Sandblower]

Temecula, CA.... Looking for a Two Post Lift Suitable for Storing a Car?

Are you concerned about earthquakes?

I'm mindful of earthquakes and wouldn't be concerned with the Mohawk wheel adapters. If a 9.0 earthquake hits, all bets are off!

I'm hoping someone else offers a similar set up given the lofty pricing of Mohawk.

 

[motofool33]

somewhere on here a guy built a drive on rack for his two post lift to prevent suspension damage. also long term storage of car on flat surface could damage the tires

 

[quicknova]

I've seen the mohawk ones and the way they are designed I can't see why someone couldn't make them aftermarket to work with other lifts.

 

[Sandblower]

I've seen the mohawk ones and the way they are designed I can't see why someone couldn't make them aftermarket to work with other lifts.

Might be what I do. The Mohawk lift is pricey and the wheel adapters cost more than many two post lifts!

I'd rather buy them made to work with a particular two post lift. I don't know why other manufacturers aren't offering a similar option.

 

[ndm]

Might be what I do. The Mohawk lift is pricey and the wheel adapters cost more than many two post lifts!

I'd rather buy them made to work with a particular two post lift. I don't know why other manufacturers aren't offering a similar option.

I honestly would rather have a couple wheel engaging adaptors like this instead. (but beefier for a vehicle)

 

[jackblack85]

OP,

I went with the Mohawk System I over other manufacturers for primarily this reason. With the wheel adapters, I am able to store my vehicles (sports cars) without any concern of suspension issues in the future. As far as I am aware, Mohawk has a patent on these wheel adapters hence why other manufacturers don't offer it. There were a couple members on here that made their own, but even then I think they were using Mohawk lifts.

Given your scenario and requirements. I would only feel safe recommending the Mohawk for your application due to the stoutness of the lift compared to other manufacturers.

 

[Scud67]

Absolutely NO evidence that "long term" storage on a 2 post causes any issues with suspension. I have been storing a number of vehicles on 2 post lifts for long periods of time without any issues. Also - if a car sits on it tires in one spot for a long time, there is always the possibility of "flat spots" occurring (I HAVE had this happen a few times....)

 

[Daedalus]

I've seen the mohawk ones and the way they are designed I can't see why someone couldn't make them aftermarket to work with other lifts.

No doubt Mohawk designed their lift from the start to be used that way. Doing so adds loads to the arms and the carriage that were likely never intended to be applied to other lifts. Be careful to not make any catastrophic improvements.
The adapter ndm looks like a good approach, as far as the lift is concerned...though like he says, it looks like it needs to be much beefier. It looks like it keeps all load on the arms vertical, as they were designed for.

 

[Daedalus]

Absolutely NO evidence that "long term" storage on a 2 post causes any issues with suspension. I have been storing a number of vehicles on 2 post lifts for long periods of time without any issues. Also - if a car sits on it tires in one spot for a long time, there is always the possibility of "flat spots" occurring (I HAVE had this happen a few times....)

You know that rubber bushings go bad, right? The question is, do they go bad purely as a function of time, or do they go bad faster when stressed? Why do manufacturers insist that suspension bolts be torqued up only when the suspension is fully loaded? Why would rubber tires be impacted by long term stresses but not rubber bushings?

 

[rburke65]

And so the argument continues.......

 

[wssix99]

Only one I can find that does this is Mohawk.

Which one? I would be surprised if Mohawk or any manufacturer actually advertised or certified their two post lift for this. (Mohawk gives a number of benefits of their wheel adapters, but storage is not one.)

The problem is that 2 post lifts have some of their attachment bolts in constant tension when a load is at height. Most of these bolts are not rated for continuous use in overhead or tension use. Even when they are, the installation needs to be precise for them to work properly. Being in CA makes this a riskier proposition...

You'll see examples of members here who are doing this without issues (the ones to do have issues don't post back...) and some have installed special fasteners (not supplied by the lift manufacturers) that withstand constant tension but 4 post lifts or parking lifts are the devices designed specifically for this type of thing.

 

[AMCguy]

Ever notice how many shops park their customers cars on and under two post lifts at night?

I've been doing it for years with my Hydra-Lift. The only issue I have is when it's up on the locks for an extended period, the ram slowly settles to the ground and the oil returns to the reservoir.

 

[Scud67]

I see no difference in lifting many cars in a day, then keeping one on the lift overnight, day after day, and keeping one stored on the lift. As far as the tire/ bushing question earlier.... the difference is that the tires will get flat spots if kept in one place over long periods of time due to the weight of the vehicle, whereas the bushings are only supporting the weight of the control arms/ axles, brakes and wheels. The tire flat spots occur mostly on the softer (high performance) tires than on the normal radial tires on most vehicles. Hey - do what you want..... I have never had any issues in long term storage on my 2 post.

 

[Aahz]

A word from a car lift sales guy that also has an automotive & truck lift service company..
First; The reason why most other lift manufacturers don't make wheel adapters (like those shown on the Mohawk lift) is that there isn't much in the way for demand on them. If Mohawk sells 10 sets of those per year, I would think they are having a banner year! The cost to design and even manufacture the adapters isn't all that great, but the liability and most importantly, certification testing, is likely a HUGE cost. With virtually no demand, what would be the point?
Second; The reason there is such limited demand for adapters like those, goes back to a few different issues. A.) When you pick up a vehicle from it's wheels, instead of the frame, you need more ceiling height to get that vehicle up in the air. As most of the people on the Forum here know, unless the garage is built with that specific height requirement in mind, ceiling height in the garage is a HUGE deal. B.) Most people buy a 2 post lift to actually service their vehicles, not to park them. Home use 4-Post lifts are designed for parking and are really the most popular for that purpose.

Last, I agree that most of the 2 post lifts CAN be used for parking vehicles underneath. I've had countless service calls over the years where a shop has done it and come in the next day to find that someone had stuck a screwdriver in the safety latch and left the car up on hydraulics, only to have the hydraulics fail overnight. Typically, the bottom vehicle is destroyed and the car that was on top needs a new exhaust system and oil pan, if they got off lucky.
If you DO park a vehicle under a 2 post lift, it is probably against the operating instructions as provided by the manufacturer. Again, the only SAFE way to do this would be to insure that the lift is completely settled on the safety locks and double check to make sure they are operating correctly.

 

[lakeroadster]

.... I've had countless service calls over the years where a shop has done it and come in the next day to find that someone had stuck a screwdriver in the safety latch and left the car up on hydraulics, only to have the hydraulics fail overnight. Typically, the bottom vehicle is destroyed and the car that was on top needs a new exhaust system and oil pan, if they got off lucky.

If you DO park a vehicle under a 2 post lift, it is probably against the operating instructions as provided by the manufacturer. Again, the only SAFE way to do this would be to insure that the lift is completely settled on the safety locks and double check to make sure they are operating correctly.

Your points about the car above lowering onto the car below... how is that any different than what a 4 post "could" do, if, as you describe, the safety is disabled by someone? An idiot with 4 screwdrivers is just as dangerous as one with 2.

Stupid is as stupid does.

If you DO park a vehicle under a 2 post lift, it is probably against the operating instructions as provided by the manufacturer. Again, the only SAFE way to do this would be to insure that the lift is completely settled on the safety locks and double check to make sure they are operating correctly.

Again, no different than a 4 post, right?

I just re-read the Operation and Maintenance Manual for my Rotary SPOA10.. I see nothing that states it cannot be used for storing a vehicle.



I was expecting something like this, or some text stating it was "verboten"... but from what I can see there is no such dictate from Rotary.

 

[wssix99]

I see no difference in lifting many cars in a day, then keeping one on the lift overnight, day after day, and keeping one stored on the lift.

In terms of the constant tension hardware, the difference is with the possibility of a creep type failure: (constant stress over time)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig_ceiling_collapse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creep_(deformation)

Ever notice how many shops park their customers cars on and under two post lifts at night?

They have liability insurance if something happens which will cover the cost of the car underneath. Homeowners, who do not use the equipment in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions, do not. <- That would be my main personal concern.

 

[Aahz]

Lakeroadster...not to get into a ******* match over this, but I'm relating my experience. I DID state that it could be done, provided the safeties are operating correctly and had not been disabled. It is much more difficult to disable the safeties on a 4-post lift than it is on a 2 post, although you are correct, it CAN be done.

The owner's manual doesn't point out each and every potential issue (ie. there is no pictograph stating that you should move your tool cart or used oil drain out of the way when lowering the lift), yet people get injured and items get crushed virtually every day while using vehicle lifts. If you were to call Rotary, they may be fine with parking a car underneath, but I doubt very highly that they would leave themselves open to the liability of saying "Sure, go ahead!".

 

[Scud67]

I see no "creep type' failure happening if you follow the instructions for lifting a vehicle as per the operating manual - it clearly states that the vehicle should be lowered onto the locks before working under it. NEVER trust hydraulics to hold anything.

 

[wssix99]

I see no "creep type' failure happening if you follow the instructions for lifting a vehicle as per the operating manual - it clearly states that the vehicle should be lowered onto the locks before working under it. NEVER trust hydraulics to hold anything.

Every two post lift with a load off the ground has some of the fasteners in the floor under constant tension, even when the load is on the locks. (The lift itself is structurally fine.) Those fasteners are the pieces that can experience creep failures.

The physics of a 4 post lift or a parking lift, that has forks under the load, are different and they don't have this issue.

 

[tlmartin84]

Here is a good thread with several home made lift adapters............

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=275287&highlight=lift&page=2

 

[Falcon67]

>Why do manufacturers insist that suspension bolts be torqued up only when the suspension is fully loaded?

Because stock rubber junk binds like hell. Why for a lot of performance applications you remove the stock junk and put in poly with a steel spacer core - the core locks the bushing into the control arm, etc and the hard durometer bushing rotates around the core freely. Rubber bushings also use a steel core, but the bushing is bound to the core in the mfg process. So right off after hitting the road you tear inside core from the rubber then proceed to worry the hell out of the rubber from then on. Put it on with the wheels in full droop, you'll get the rip-my-guts part out of the way as soon as it hits the floor.

>someone had stuck a screwdriver in the safety latch
I can't really see how you'd do that on my lift. Or why, you don't have to touch the latching operation, locks, lever, etc on the way up. If the lift were to ever settle, it would come to rest on the locks. Common sense (I know LOL) says lift above your last lock position then lower onto the locks. You cannot release the locks with weight on them.

The Mustang has been up on the 2 post for a couple of weeks - no big deal IMHO. We sat under it drinking coffee like the car was an awning when the weather was nice and the garage door was open. I don't see anything that's going to hurt it suspension wise with the wheels hanging. The only issue with putting something under it would be to wrap the end of the tail shaft with some PIG blanket because the seal leaks after the converter drains down into the trans.

 

[lakeroadster]

It is much more difficult to disable the safeties on a 4-post lift than it is on a 2 post, although you are correct, it CAN be done.

Why was the topic of disabling safety mechanisms even introduced into this thread?

Nearly every lift, 2 post or 4 post, can easily have the safety release handle held in the unlocked position with a rope.

Stupid is as stupid does.

I also had a Direct-Lift 4-post, assembled and installed it by myself.

Every two post lift with a load off the ground has some of the fasteners in the floor under constant tension, even when the load is on the locks. (The lift itself is structurally fine.) Those fasteners are the pieces that can experience creep failures.

Hmm... we're usually in agreement on such issues? I think in this case you are reaching.

When did fasteners under constant tension become an issue of concern? Every fastener that is correctly torqued is under "constant tension".

I've run the numbers on the loads on the anchor bolts on my Rotary SPOA10... the anchors are so overkill that there really isn't any need for concern.

Robust designs

But if we introduce disabling safety's, bad designs and bad installations.. that's a quagmire of "What If's".

 

[Aahz]

Lakeroadster...personally, I'm glad you have a Rotary Lift instead of the cheap Chinese imports. It also is the brand that my company sells and services. It's a great lift made by a great company!

I bring it up because it happens. Not everyone here buys the best made equipment. Many people buy used lifts and the safeties are disabled, broken or just flat out non-existent.

Unfortunately, you would also be absolutely amazed at how often people disable the safeties on this type of equipment "for convenience sake". So I'll re-iterate my point that "Yes, it can be done...but it's not recommended..and if you do it, make sure the safeties work!"

I also agree with you on "Stupid is as stupid does". One of the things I have tried to do on this Forum for years is promote safety with vehicle lifts. There's a thread here about "Lift Customizations" that I don't even want to read, simply because if I do, I'll feel obligated to comment and it won't be pretty...

Like I stated earlier..my intention wasn't to start a ******* contest over the issue. Some of the other issues people brought up (ie. suspension hang in particular) are good reasons not to use a 2 post for parking..

 

[ndm]

Lakeroadster...personally, I'm glad you have a Rotary Lift instead of the cheap Chinese imports. It also is the brand that my company sells and services. It's a great lift made by a great company!

I bring it up because it happens. Not everyone here buys the best made equipment. Many people buy used lifts and the safeties are disabled, broken or just flat out non-existent.

Unfortunately, you would also be absolutely amazed at how often people disable the safeties on this type of equipment "for convenience sake". So I'll re-iterate my point that "Yes, it can be done...but it's not recommended..and if you do it, make sure the safeties work!"

I also agree with you on "Stupid is as stupid does". One of the things I have tried to do on this Forum for years is promote safety with vehicle lifts. There's a thread here about "Lift Customizations" that I don't even want to read, simply because if I do, I'll feel obligated to comment and it won't be pretty...

Like I stated earlier..my intention wasn't to start a ******* contest over the issue. Some of the other issues people brought up (ie. suspension hang in particular) are good reasons not to use a 2 post for parking..

My thread is the lift modification thread. I welcome you to post comments. I just do not want it to be a ******* match between folks. It is not a thread to show unsafe stuff. It is a place to show ways that people are making their lifts "their own". I view it as a thread to document creative ideas like the one with mirrors mounted in front to help guide cars into the right position. The one where the guy uses the lift as an elevator of sorts to lift his motorcycles onto the pallet racking for storage is a good one too.

I wish people could see the point of my thread is not to show people how to circumvent safety features or dumb stuff like that.

As an example I would use, Many people modify their cars and many do dumb and unsafe things. That does not mean that every modification to a vehicle is unsafe.

In my thread you may come across something that you think is not safe. That is true. I just want to have a consolidated place to put the stuff. I hardly think that the vast majority of things posted in my thread is unsafe. (lights, painted, electrical outlets, compressed air outlets, etc...)

maybe I should have chosen different wording for the name of my thread so people dont get the wrong idea.


EDIT___ As a matter of fact if you read my thread there are people doing stuff ti increase the safety of the lift like adding kill switches to prevent runaway lifts and stuff. I just went through my whole thread and only found one blatantly unsafe thing and a couple two things that were debated (added bracing).

 

[wssix99]

Hmm... we're usually in agreement on such issues? I think in this case you are reaching.

We can still be of the same mind, here. Your points are stronger, also. None of us would think twice driving our car down the highway without insurance. Yet, some would consider storing the car in an off-label way where it could be damaged/destroyed and consequently not covered.

When did fasteners under constant tension become an issue of concern?

Anywhere they are not rated for "overhead use". Some are good, some are poor, and in some cases the manufacturer doesn't bother to go through testing/certification.

Every fastener that is correctly torqued is under "constant tension".

Great point. My comments assume this is insignificant and are aimed at the additional loads on the fasteners from the moments around the bases of the lifts when a load is off the ground.

I've run the numbers on the loads on the anchor bolts on my Rotary SPOA10... the anchors are so overkill that there really isn't any need for concern.

(My link above about creep failures was corrupt and I just fixed it.) The concern isn't the instantaneous load, but higher strains imparted over longer periods of time.

Creep failures are probably not as big a concern for wedge anchors as they often are rated for specific tension loads experience many conditions that encourage creep, but if you look at companies like RedHead, they only specify their high strength models for overhead applications. (I would definitely not use their vanilla models, sold at Home Depot, for a lift!)

A bigger creep concern is where people substitute anchors and go with the wrong epoxy anchors. These have more explicit warnings on them about overhead/constant tension use and we have members here recommending to use non-overhead epoxy often.

 

[wssix99]

I wish people could see the point of my thread is not to show people how to circumvent safety features or dumb stuff like that.

I'm not sure you can ever separate the two because people sometimes make modifications they think are safe and don't consider all the unintended consequences. I think the best modification threads treat the safety topic as a sanity check/peer review.

As pointed out above, my concerns are mainly pointed towards the insurance situation and consequences of off-label use. Is that something you personally considered or would be concerned with?

 

[Aahz]

My thread is the lift modification thread. I welcome you to post comments. I just do not want it to be a ******* match between folks. It is not a thread to show unsafe stuff. It is a place to show ways that people are making their lifts "their own". I view it as a thread to document creative ideas like the one with mirrors mounted in front to help guide cars into the right position. The one where the guy uses the lift as an elevator of sorts to lift his motorcycles onto the pallet racking for storage is a good one too.

I wish people could see the point of my thread is not to show people how to circumvent safety features or dumb stuff like that.

As an example I would use, Many people modify their cars and many do dumb and unsafe things. That does not mean that every modification to a vehicle is unsafe.

In my thread you may come across something that you think is not safe. That is true. I just want to have a consolidated place to put the stuff. I hardly think that the vast majority of things posted in my thread is unsafe. (lights, painted, electrical outlets, compressed air outlets, etc...)

maybe I should have chosen different wording for the name of my thread so people dont get the wrong idea.


EDIT___ As a matter of fact if you read my thread there are people doing stuff ti increase the safety of the lift like adding kill switches to prevent runaway lifts and stuff. I just went through my whole thread and only found one blatantly unsafe thing and a couple two things that were debated (added bracing).

I'm not trying to disparage your thread and I have looked through it a few times. I understand your points and maybe my "criticism" is out of line. I think different wording for the name of the thread would stop me from shuddering every time I see it..I actually do think many of the things people have done and posted are pretty cool and very little of it affects the structural integrity or safety of the equipment in question. I'm also glad that there has been some discussion about the safety aspects of what they are doing or have done.

There are many threads involving lifts on this site and as I said previously, I don't want to get in ******* matches with people over these issues. I try and bring some experience and knowledge of vehicle lift safety so that people make the right decisions about what will work for them and what has worked for other people.

 

[ndm]

I'm not sure you can ever separate the two because people sometimes make modifications they think are safe and don't consider all the unintended consequences. I think the best modification threads treat the safety topic as a sanity check/peer review.

As pointed out above, my concerns are mainly pointed towards the insurance situation and consequences of off-label use. Is that something you personally considered or would be concerned with?

Sure we should all think about the insurance issue. I am not debating that at all but the fact of the matter is that there are specifications that manufacturers will make to cover their own butts and to limit warranty claims. Every modification I have ever done to any of my vehicles is frowned upon by the vehicle manufacturers for some reason or another. I was told that a suspension drop back in the day voided the whole car warranty.(false)
I was told that adding aftermarket amplifiers and speakers voided your warranty (false).

my point is that there are things that are blatantly unsafe. Those things should be avoided, yes. Then there are things that are minor mods like lights, stickers, outlets, custom paint and useful stuff like a compressed air plug in. These are the things that I am after. Stuff that makes just having the lift that much more enjoyable and useful. I am just interested in documenting the mods. By doing this, the manufacturers of the lifts might see a thread like mine and offer a product based on a neat idea that Joe Shmoe added to their lifts.

By every day folks using a lift and pointing out useful things that make owning it better, we are all helping improve things and manufacturers would be smart to pay attention to what guys are doing.

Back in the day, I was adding amps, speakers, car computer stuff, dvd players and tv screens to custom cars and all these people including my parents and uncles would give me **** about how silly it was. I was doing air ride suspensions on my vehicles because I liked low vehicles but did not like a vehicle that rode like ****. Now fast forward a couple decades to the present. All that silly stuff I used to put in those cars are factory standard things that people pay thousands of dollars to have. You got factory Jeeps, trucks, cars, SUV's that have optional air ride systems that cost double the price of just buying the components and adding them yourself. Car manufacturers are making major $$$$$$$ off of putting stuff in cars that were once "Silly, unsafe and stupid" into cars right off the lot.

My point is that we spend our hard earned cash on something. We have the right to make it our own. We modify our houses, cars, phones, etc. I just want a place to put those mods so that a poor guy looking to explain to his wife why he "needs" to spend a few thousand to get one, well, he has a list of added value to tell her. A place where I can find a gold mine of ideas if I were searching google.

By using my thought process, maybe the lift companies will realize that hey should design a 2 post lift with 84 inches of height to the bottom of the lift arms on locks and design a set of removable ramps so a guy can have the best of both worlds. Storage and 2post utility all in 1.

There I go being a dreamer again!!

 

[ndm]

wssix99 and Aahz I think we can all agree that mods that affect the structural integrity of the lift should not be considered. Mods that increase the usability are inherently good.

Some mods are grey area, some are just simply "WTF?" type of mods. We should all take the time to point out potential safety issues but we can all do it in respectful and adult ways.

 

[Aahz]

NDM...I think we can all agree on your statement on structural mods

I'll bring up your thoughts to the engineers on a 2 post, 84" rise and removable ramps. I'm also going to start a new company that raises garage roofs!

In regards to mods, when the project I'm currently working on is done, I'll post some pics on your thread. We are custom designing some equipment for one of the airlines to pick up their aircraft tugs and while these aren't anything you will be able to park on or use at home, it WILL be very impressive.

Have a great weekend!

 

[wssix99]

Sure we should all think about the insurance issue. I am not debating that at all but the fact of the matter is that there are specifications that manufacturers will make to cover their own butts and to limit warranty claims.

This is true. lakeroadster's post above with the pictures cracks me up when I look at it because every single one of those pictures represents a past law suit somewhere. (Some of them, no doubt, frivolous.) lol

maybe the lift companies will realize that hey should design a 2 post lift with 84 inches of height to the bottom of the lift arms on locks and design a set of removable ramps so a guy can have the best of both worlds. Storage and 2post utility all in 1.

How about adding a structural member across the top (installed at an adjustable height) between the two posts? That way, this type of (fastener tension) failure couldn't happen:

^ With that and proper use of safety locks, parking under a 2 post lift should be a non-issue. (Assuming the user has the load balanced correctly forward to aft.)