The VISES of Garage Journal

[Z3K3Y]

Hey fellow GJ'ers . I have a line on a 8 inch swivel vise. Seller thinks it might be wilton (hes unsure). I personally think it looks like Bison (also unsure).. I cant seem to find any info or pictures of a 8 inch bison vise.. yet alone a swivel model.. So maybe this is niether wilton or bison (possibly asian import?).. Im looking for help to identify it , So I can determine a fair price.. heres some pictures from the seller

Edit.. iT says 200 on the side. ill upload a picture of a bison 125 i have for comparison too.

 

[drivesitfar]

Z3: i'd say Bison or i think Mark of Indiana discovered there is a high quality copy going around too. definitely not a WILTON. if not welded or cracked and a decent price you have my vote to buy it cause from what i remember if it isn't a Bison the copies are well made.

also just an FYI. the 8 inch vises in that style are no where's near as heavy as the big old US 8 inch vises and don't command nearly the prices either.

 

[4Nines]

To all the professional vise restorers - I'm about to start cleaning up this been German post vise and I thought it would be best to give it an electrolysis bath and then clean it up with a wire wheel. Is that about the best way to go or does anyone have any other suggestions?

 

[drivesitfar]

4nines: sounds good to me and do you have a big enough tub? here's the homemade electrolysis thread link in case you might have some questions about E tanks cause you'll need a big one and maybe a bigger charger and rebar or steel plate for that big vise.

some members dig holes in their property, put in pond liner and do car frames so your "LITTLE" vise won't be any big deal to some members.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=237752&highlight=homemade+electrolysis

it might start to flash rust pretty quick after the wire wheeling so get some BLO or even WD 40 to spray on it until you are ready to proceed with the restoration. you can paint over BLO and either have to wipe WD off or wait until it evaporates.

good luck

 

[G-ManBart]

I agree with nick, nice, real nice.


nice site too.

Thanks! I have a beautiful wife, two cute pups and that makes ME the lucky dog

 

[G-ManBart]

To all the professional vise restorers - I'm about to start cleaning up this been German post vise and I thought it would be best to give it an electrolysis bath and then clean it up with a wire wheel. Is that about the best way to go or does anyone have any other suggestions?

Electrolysis works well, but Evapo-Rust is a viable alternative. I've done both, but lean towards Evapo-Rust now.

 

[drivesitfar]

GMAN: that's a lot of EVAPORUST to cover a 500 pound vise. isn't it?

do you re use your Evaporust and how do you store it and filter it? maybe a good idea for a new thread? your turn to start a good thread and probably could also include Simple green that many of us use a lot of on how to use, re use and store it.

i need to check out your new web site as soon as i get done with my daughter's wedding chair cause your dogs that AutoPts posted on another thread sure pose and look happy.

cheers

 

[trijeff]

Thanks! I have a beautiful wife, two cute pups and that makes ME the lucky dog

Where is this site???

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

 

[Shiftless]

Where is this site???

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

mivise.com
I just read the whole thing. Quite well done Gman

 

[Mark in Indiana]

Hey fellow GJ'ers . I have a line on a 8 inch swivel vise. Seller thinks it might be wilton (hes unsure). I personally think it looks like Bison (also unsure).. I cant seem to find any info or pictures of a 8 inch bison vise.. yet alone a swivel model.. So maybe this is niether wilton or bison (possibly asian import?).. Im looking for help to identify it , So I can determine a fair price.. heres some pictures from the seller

Edit.. iT says 200 on the side. ill upload a picture of a bison 125 i have for comparison too.

Z3,

Good eye! I also would guess that the 8" vise is not a WILTON or a BISON. Probably Chinese? The answer may be on the bottom of that vise. Unless you are getting that vise VERY CHEAP, and you've taken it apart to see that the casting/machining is good, I'd pass. IMO: The hard work that's expected from an 8" vise would be too much for that one. BTW: What's the asking price?

The 5" Bison knock off that I recently restored is perfect for a homeowner or a back-up vise, but not for heavy use. In fact, I may sell my 4" Wilton Bullet and use it in its place.
Yes: I know that sounds like vise blasphemy or vise heresy. But old Bullets sell for waaaaaaay more than what I could get for my Bison KO.

 

[4Nines]

4nines: sounds good to me and do you have a big enough tub? here's the homemade electrolysis thread link in case you might have some questions about E tanks cause you'll need a big one and maybe a bigger charger and rebar or steel plate for that big vise.

some members dig holes in their property, put in pond liner and do car frames so your "LITTLE" vise won't be any big deal to some members.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=237752&highlight=homemade+electrolysis

it might start to flash rust pretty quick after the wire wheeling so get some BLO or even WD 40 to spray on it until you are ready to proceed with the restoration. you can paint over BLO and either have to wipe WD off or wait until it evaporates.

good luck

I have a big agricultural plastic tank that I can drop it in. I was curious about if the 12v 2 amp charger method would be enough for this thick steel? I've successfully used the same setup on smaller vises, but didn't know if I need to dial it up for the big stuff?

I usually use Gibbs on stuff that I have cleaned up to fight flash rust. I also have Corrosion X that I use on my machine tools. What is this BLO you speak of? Is that short for a longer name?

Electrolysis works well, but Evapo-Rust is a viable alternative. I've done both, but lean towards Evapo-Rust now.

I have some Evapo-Rust to try out, but for this big vise I would need at least 50 gallons of Evapo-Rust or can I cut it with water or another solution to make it stretch farther?

 

[jakemac]

The thickness of the steel won't matter. It's the surface area you need to consider when putting in the electrodes.

You can dilute ER with water, but it will weaken the solution and take longer to work.

 

[drivesitfar]

49's: those products work for flash rusting and BLO (boiled linseed oil) is really what i use instead of painting my vises and just rub on a coat if i feel the surface rust is more than i like.

not sure about the voltage of big metal and E baths so i'll defer to the experts or like i mentioned maybe post up your questions on the Homemade Electrolysis thread i mentioned so it's there for the next guy. some of the members have an E bath going 24/7 and just use low amps.

good luck

GMAN: next Wilton bullet you post you need to post some pics of those dogs with it just because. ok?

 

[topop101]

Drives some time ago we had spoke about different ways to mount old Parker vise's that have the dbl bevel slide support. I had mentioned how I had built what I called a "bench saver" base for ones I had sold. Well I'm finally getting around to doing another one except this one is a KEEPER. It's for my 1887 Parker No. 376 swivel jaw coach makers vise I had picked up last year for $45.00 at an estate sale.
For this bench saver I used a piece on hard maple butcher block I also picked up from a sale for $.25. I had to run it through a thickness planer to get the needed 1" thickness and it also took out all of the knife cuts and the slight warp it had from getting wet very often . I used a 2" wood chisel and 2 different wood rasp to cut the notch in for the slide support.
Once this was in I was able to layout the vise base onto the bench saver. I over sized the layout freehand and left the front wide since this is where the most force and pressure will be applied. I then cut it out on my band saw and sanded the edges to 220 then gave the top edge a slight round over by hand because having worked with hard maple before I know it tends to want to chip out on the end grains.
Now because of all the "free hand" work it's far from perfect but it should provide a solid base to a great old vise for a very long time.

 

[Shiftless]

topop:
Nice work!
That's an idea I will use if and when I get a vise like that.

BTW, how do you know it's from 1887?

Jake is right about ignoring the thickness...it's the surface area that matters as well as amperage on the flow of current.

49s
I have heard of guys putting the object in a plastic bag and then adding the evaporust.
That would certainly use a lot less than 50 gallons, but I wouldn't exactly volunteer to bag up that vise by myself.

 

[G-ManBart]

mivise.com
I just read the whole thing. Quite well done Gman

Thanks!

 

[G-ManBart]

GMAN: next Wilton bullet you post you need to post some pics of those dogs with it just because. ok?

I'll see if they will volunteer to be serVISE dogs

 

[topop101]

topop:
Nice work!
That's an idea I will use if and when I get a vise like that.

BTW, how do you know it's from 1887? Well I don't but it's dated 1887 / 1867 ???

 

[drivesitfar]

Top: great job on the mount. if i recall correctly that is 1867, but i'll defer to those other vise guys that have and like Parkers better than I do.

GMan: just posting the picture you already have on this thread would be good for now and maybe a few more pictures of the rest of your vises besides your Wilton Vault of them. or is Wilton the only vise magnet you own??

 

[Tomthumb717]

DRIVES - I believe my 5 gal bucket of Evapo-Rust says that each gallon can treat up to either 250-300 lbs of metal before it becomes inert.

 

[Tomthumb717]

TOPOP - I had similar type markings on one of my Prentiss and Lewis Tool vises and I believe they refereed to a patent date not necessarily the manufacture date but i could be wrong.

 

[oldldh]

I have a line on a 8 inch swivel vise. I personally think it looks like Bison.....I cant seem to find any info or pictures of a 8 inch bison vise. let alone, a swivel model... I'm looking for help to identify it...It says 200 on the side...

Ask, and ye shall receive...

This was on Ebay a couple of years ago...

It went for, I think about $150.00...

I just missed bidding on it, I was about 15 minutes late...

But, I saved the pictures...

200mm = 7.87402 inches, so it's not a "Real" 8"er, but it is a Bison...

 

[Outlawmws]

Top, I agree, its almost certainly a patent date, and I suspect its 1867 as I think that was one of Parker's Patent years.

 

[topop101]

Top, I agree, its almost certainly a patent date, and I suspect its 1867 as I think that was one of Parker's Patent years.

Oh I know it's a pat date. My eye sight up close just wouldn't let me determine if it was 1887 or 1867. When they have dates on them I just refer to them by that date. There is no way that I am aware of to determine the date of manufacture on these Parkers. I'm not even sure what time frame the 3 series were built in. I didn't mean to cause any confusion by referring to it by pat date...

 

[topop101]

TOPOP - I had similar type markings on one of my Prentiss and Lewis Tool vises and I believe they refereed to a patent date not necessarily the manufacture date but i could be wrong.

Tom Nope , you are correct!

 

[va.grouseman]

, Outlaw.---Looks more like a 67 than an 87 on the date.

 

[CrotalusAtrox]

Some Charles Parker history.

Charles Parker was born in 1809 and rose from poverty to become one of Connecticut’s leading industrialists. He also became the city of Meriden’s first mayor. He started his manufacturing career inventing and producing coffee mills in a small shop in 1832.

By 1860, he owned several large factories and employed hundreds of people, in and around Meriden. Parker products included hardware and house wares, flatware, clocks, lamps, piano stools and benches, vises, coffee mills, industrial machinery, and, after 1862, guns. Guns, however, never amounted to more than 10 percent of Parker’s business. Charles Parker died in 1901 and his descendants carried on his businesses until 1957.

The Great Depression of the 1930s took its toll on the Parker enterprise and it never fully recovered. Parker products have now become “collector’s items,” especially the Parker shotguns. The Charles Parker Company sold its gun facility and the rights to the Parker gun to Remington Arms Company in 1934, and Remington continued the Parker shotgun line until World War II.

The attraction by collectors to the Parker shotgun comes because of the gun’s inherent quality and beauty. The Parker gun is an American classic and examples of their highest grade guns have been achieving record prices at auction recently, up in the $100,000’s and more bracket!

 

[Shiftless]

CA:
Thanks for the back story on Parker!

 

[MissileBear]

DRIVES - I believe my 5 gal bucket of Evapo-Rust says that each gallon can treat up to either 250-300 lbs of metal before it becomes inert.

I have found this to be an extremely generous estimation; I do not get anywhere near this before the stuff wears out.

I think the 250-300 lb estimation makes the assumption that the parts are only lightly rusted; I clean really rusted hand tools and would bet I get about 100 pounds of metal cleaned per gallon.

That said, it is amazing stuff, but I still prefer electrolysis for vices. jakemac is right; the thickness or mass of the metal won't matter, but the surface area does. I've found that playing around with the solution and adjusting the position of the part in the tank is occasionally needed. Sometimes the process takes a very long time, other times the wires & battery charger will start to get hot and I have to back things off a bit.

I've always used an old Schumacher 10 amp charger without issue; it's been used on a few large pieces (grinder stand, some large sheet metal panels, and an old car bumper)

 

[drivesitfar]

Oldie: not to question your post, but how are you sure that the 8 inch vice Z3 is looking at is a BISON? as Mark said there have been some Bison copies found since your Ebay auction that we might have thought were Bison in the past.

it's even a swiveler which i thought wasn't in your wheelhouse?

ALL: thanks everybody for your take on Evaporust and i'll have to buy a gallon and see how i like it.

 

[oldldh]

Oldie: not to question your post, but how are you sure that the 8 inch vice Z3 is looking at is a BISON?

Because the ad on Ebay said it was...

And we all know that no one ever prevaricates on Ebay...

(I have no idea how the seller figured out what it was, but the ad said that it weighed about 160 pounds...)

The vise was for a friend of mine who does swivel...

I'm too old to swivel, but when I was younger!!!!

I had a swivler that people would come from miles around to gaze upon...

(And that is as far as I'm taking this conversation down the tubes...)

 

[drivesitfar]

Oldie: good thing you clarified that the swiveler was for a friend. for a minute i thought i'd lost my OLDIE and maybe he had switched teams.

glad you chalked another year above dirt in 2016 and hope you and the rest of us can say the same at the end of 2017. enjoy your vice for vises and tools.

WELL DONE BUBBA

cheers

 

[CwazyWabbit]

Just seen this machine vice listed on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Engineers-Vice-LARGE-/302188748497
The weight is listed as 240KG :-/
With jaws of 400mm wide by 100mm deep.

 

[macgee]

ALL: thanks everybody for your take on Evaporust and i'll have to buy a gallon and see how i like it.

Drive,

A gallon actually goes a long way if you recycle it. I use a funnel with two coffee filters in it with great results to refill what I have left back into the Evaporust container.
Evaporust works best with chrome plated items like sockets and wrenches, the results can be astonishingly good. Non-plated steel items can become dark grey but that will clean off with light wire brushing, Brasso or polishing. When using it to de-rust, try to keep a cover over items to prevent air getting to the Evaporust, Air weakens Evaporust and will effect it's strength.

Electrolysis is easier for larger parts like a big vise but it will not give you the same shiny clean results as I can get with Evaporust cleaning chromed hand tools. Evaporust is very convenient and very easy to do. 4-10 hours seems to be the best amount of time depending on type of metal and how must rust. Do some tests first.

*It's critical to degrease the items before using it, Evaporust is not a degreaser and the grease and gunk sticking to item will only prevent Evaporust from getting to the rust & metal. Quickly degrease the items, let it dry as degreaser/water can neutralize the evaporust, when dry then soak in Evaporust, you will then get much better & quicker results.

Evaporust is biodegradable.

Walmart has free shipping to your nearest store and currently its $17/gallon.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Evapo-Rus...allon/48810395

Electrolysis is great and I agree it's the best way to go for larger parts like a big vise but it will not give you the same shiny clean results as I can get with Evaporust cleaning hand tools with chrome and does take much longer and more hassle to set up but electrolysis is excellent.

 

[Outlawmws]

Just seen this machine vice listed on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Engineers-Vice-LARGE-/302188748497
The weight is listed as 240KG :-/
With jaws of 400mm wide by 100mm deep.

Wow, so 400mm is roughly 16" wide! that's a BIG'un!

 

[454ragtop]

Just seen this machine vice listed on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Engineers-Vice-LARGE-/302188748497
The weight is listed as 240KG :-/
With jaws of 400mm wide by 100mm deep.

That's a shaper vise.

 

[oldldh]

A 13 1/4" Drill Press "Vice"...

In the U.K....

For $184.20...

But it's over there...

 

[454ragtop]

A 13 1/4" Drill Press "Vice"...

In the U.K....

For $184.20...

But it's over there...

Wow, shaper vises (vices) are coming out of the wood work over there.

 

[Lapkritis]

Seller backed out on the Hollands 14 1/2 because he said he needed it and didn't have a replacement :/

It just so happens I picked up that Craftsman 5" 506-51810 yesterday in amazing condition. The vise hardly looks used - it was in a box under a desk and had been there for 20 years. Going to propose a trade with the owner of the Hollands and see what he says.

I've done two of these in the last couple years. Gave one to my brother for his first house/shop. They open wider than one might expect and look great with a fresh paint job and the raised details highlighted.

I just painted the second last night and mounted it to my workbench where it should serve for years. I have a Wilton 1760 that I'm probably going to sell as it's more than I need as a hobbyist. The craftsmen is about the perfect size for a residential garage/gear head.

 

[zoomieport]

Nice to see y'all, been out of country, you guys are rolling!