Another reason not to buy chineese stuff

[mrpowderkeg]

I will not buy any chinese tools, nor anything for that matter if I can help it at all. I will rather pay twice the amount for an American Product, but sometimes their just isn't an American Substitute. I know we all cannot afford to buy top quality, we've all been there. BUT this is just another reason to boycott Chinese products. Looks like their industry is becoming the downfall of their society... I will only get worse, until it gets better (maybe)

Taken from another Forum:

http://www.chinahush.com/2009/10/21/amazing-pictures-pollution-in-china/

 

[mjozefow]

I wonder how much of that stuff eventually makes it's way to other countries...

 

[rburke65]

They already add the plastics to your dog food and the lead into the paint they apply to toys and such......

 

[rwhite692]

You could take most of those pictures, convert them to black-and-white, and they would not look much different than our own country did during our Industrial Revolution in the twenties and thirties.

We all like to have this romantic idea that, back then, we were so much better, and so much safer with our working conditions, and so much more environmentally aware than what China, India, etc are today, it's just not so.

With the internet today, we get to see anything and everything that someone takes the time to photograph. I'm not saying that what is going on over there is right; I just don't agree with all this "holier than thou" stuff. China, India etc are in the midst of their own Industrial Revolution which is taking place on a massive scale and at breakneck speed, which is bound to be very messy.

 

[benjamming]

rwhite,

I have thought about the same thing in regards to our own Industrial Revolution. Ah, to have a more middle of the road environmental viewpoint.

However, we didn't take the hard stance that China currently does towards its own people concerning human rights. That is what probably bothers me more than their Industrial Revolution cheap quality, etc.

If a country is rising, another one is falling.

 

[rwhite692]

Benjamming, I agree, that is a principal difference.

 

[mrpowderkeg]

The thing about our industrial revolution is that we knew no better. China is undergoing an industrial revolution, ours by size was probably (just guessing, correct me if i am wrong) on smaller scale since global trade was not our concern, technology was primitive, and we were doing it for ourselves and for local markets. The kicker is, is that we did not have the technology or knowledge we have today. The Chinese govt is willingly allowing companies to make a profit at all costs including human costs. To undercut the rest of the world's prices. We now know the cost of doing things the "Old industrial revolution way". It appears that communist china is doing this in a much larger way, time will tell the effects it has on the distant future. We in the US are still dealing with some of our mistakes with our waste. I just flat our refuse to purchase chinese products...

 

[s_morrison57]

You see made in China stuff in lots of third world countries, I know cause I work in them and it really is **** for the most part, but its cheap and its all people can afford in most poor countries. They know its ****, they know there is better stuff out there, they know that they will pay more in the long run but there just isn't the money to buy top quality equipment.
Its very frustrating when you have to work with this stuff, most of the important things we bring from home but not all because as visitors there is the responsability to support the local economy as much as possible.
Brasil is the same way although there stuff is better than China's it is still second rate.

 

[babzog]

Disgusting. You get what you pay for, huh?

 

[rsanter]

china is currently putting more polution per capita out than any other country.
that stuff goes all over in the atmosphere

perhaps 70 or 100 years ago we were no better, however nobody knew better back then. today we know the impacts, the chineese just dont care

just like they do no care about our patents, our laws, or anything else

bob

 

[moonpool145]

The photo's are very shocking and more to the point heart breaking. Even more unfortunate is the fact that this is not at all isolated. Yes, China has their share, as does india, Pakistan, Brazil, West Africa, The US (yep the US) and most other countries. Almost always off the beaten path. The blame for all of this lies squarly with all of us, the world over. Conditions have improved in may areas and deteriorated in many others all for the sake of life and progress. It has always been this way and likley will always continue to be this way.

What I can say about China as it relates to this is that they are very much as the US was 40 years ago, but they are making strides to correct it. I am always amazed at the country when I go there. Very industrious people, almost always charming, hospitable and very bright (hellacious negotiators) . Their manufacturing skills may not be as refined as our own but they soon will be.

 

[stewart]

I'm glad to see this pop up on this forum. Doesn't have much to do with with garages less the poor quality tools aspect. But very important. In these countries China, India, Mexico, S. America list goes on, the people pee and poop in the water they drink. Porter Cable, IR, HP and 100's of other USA big boy's love to make stuff there. No EPA. You can dump 55 gallon drums of Hg right in the rivers. No air polution limits on cars etc I'll stop here but remember this.

When in a store especially with food (lax pesticide laws there also, US still sells outlawed Dursban to India and others), read the "made in labels". Buy at a greater cost products from US, Canada and Europe. Doing so will save your children and grandchildrens lives.

Stewart

PS thanks mrpowderkeg

 

[tatra]

i'm sure all first world countries are still dumping their substatndard/dangerous products they can't sell at home or abroad to other first and second world countries , to the third world ...............here in canada the fed gov helps to sell and market asbestos to india for example because it is an industry in quebec and every vote counts...........products found to be hazardous are constatntly dumped in the name of profit ..........and i wonder how many sharehaolders of large conglomerates realize just how much their money goes to propping up third world enevavours?..........aw well, long as i get my return, f^&* em...........

 

[Costner]

As horrible as some of those images are, at least you can see the pollution with your very eyes. Here in the US our companies are just better at hiding it. 130 million tons of coal ash are dumped and hidden in our country every year, then you have chemicals leeching into groundwater and big conglomerates buying off people to prevent it from being discussed in the media (Erin Brocovich anyone?).

Much of the electronics we do such a great job of keeping out of our landfills end up in cargo ships destined for China where their non-existent environmental regulations allow them to deal with them in ways we couldn't even consider. Then you have the mines and plants that produce raw materials such as cadmium and mercury and lead that end up as source material for products made right here in the good old USA.

If you really want to distance yourself from China, it takes a lot more than simply avoiding products with a well displayed "made in China" logo. Like it or not we (as in our society and way of life) are the real reason China has such a pollution problem.

 

[slacktide]

Yer all nuts if you think the same thing isn't STILL going on here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASARCO

 

[jayoldschool]

china is currently putting more polution per capita out than any other country.

Got a source for that statement?

 

[NUTTSGT]

The thing about our industrial revolution is that we knew no better. China is undergoing an industrial revolution, ours by size was probably (just guessing, correct me if i am wrong) on smaller scale since global trade was not our concern, technology was primitive, and we were doing it for ourselves and for local markets. The kicker is, is that we did not have the technology or knowledge we have today. The Chinese govt is willingly allowing companies to make a profit at all costs including human costs. To undercut the rest of the world's prices. We now know the cost of doing things the "Old industrial revolution way". It appears that communist china is doing this in a much larger way, time will tell the effects it has on the distant future. We in the US are still dealing with some of our mistakes with our waste. I just flat our refuse to purchase chinese products...

This statement sums it up quite well.

 

[tcianci]

The industrial revolution here surely was similar to what China is going through right now but fortunately the scale was smaller and there were fewer chemicals and materials to deal with. However, in the 100 years since the American industrial revolution, volumes have been learned about the consequences of doing the stuff that goes on routinely every day in China. The Chinese government must be ignoring plenty of dangerous processes and discharges. One of the photo captions stated that a sewage treatment plant did not treat the sewage but merely discharged it further out into the water. Sadly, these folks don't seem to give a rats *** about themselves let alone the rest of the world that they sell their stuff to. While some of the posters have implied that it is our own fault for buying the stuff, we are between a rock and a hard place on this one... so much manufacturing has been off-shored from here to there and the whole thing has gained so much momentum that it is nearly impossible to control. It is hard to say whether pressure from other countries in terms of boycotts of Chinese products or some serious soul-searching on the part of the Chinese government will reign in this rampant disregard for human life and health.
This is the ironic flip side of the "green" movement in this country and in Europe. We are pestered to no end to literally worship the ground we walk on because we need to protect the Earth, and certain self righteous segments of our own population take it upon themselves to deride anyone who is not as green as they are. Meanwhile China and other developing industrial countries are ******* through any possible gains that the green folk may have made in the quality of anything planet related. But it's all gonna be OK so long as the guys who get filthy rich off of it are the same ones making the laws.

 

[tatra]

maybe the problem isn't china, but us as consumers..........as in wanting it all at any cost........i mean gotta have the newest now.............and i got the right to have it now and if too expensive, there's credit..............hmmm........seems china's got that sewen up too..........seems they learned a thing or two from the west........

 

[T VETTE]

Not to change the subject but here in central Kalifornia where farms are running out of water because a small fish that is not native to the area is causing pumps up north to be shut off.

Botom line, only buy food that is grown here in the USA and give us the water we need to grow it. Tools, cars, pens, toys are one thing.

Do you realize much of the food you put in your mouth comes from south of the border and even the wheat can come from China.

Wife thought I was a little over the top. Now she reads every label and is shocked, she is on the USA train now!!!!

WE grow nearly everything you eat right here in central Calif. In case you did not know. Grapes/raisins, oranges, figs, lettuce, tomato,garlic,nectarine,peaches,corn,strawberrys,beans,rice, and more.

 

[AffableCurmudgeon]

maybe the problem isn't china, but us as consumers..........as in wanting it all at any cost........i mean gotta have the newest now.............and i got the right to have it now and if too expensive, there's credit..............hmmm........seems china's got that sewen up too..........seems they learned a thing or two from the west........

You said it!! How many people who take issue with China or any third world country's practices go, without a pause, to Walmart and buy any variety ofthings? A lot; and a vast majority of that stuff is made in China.

So long as there is a demand, supply will be plentiful.

 

[Mike of the North]

The thing that worries me is, what will China do if too much of their country becomes too polluted to live on, and thy can't grow enough food to feed their people, will thy buy food from other countries or take it from other countries.

 

[tatra]

the rich ones emmigrate to other countries..................peasants are there for a reason...........

 

[Jononon]

However, we didn't take the hard stance that China currently does towards its own people concerning human rights.

That's by and large true of the emergence of modern industry post WW1, but don't forget who picked the cotton that formed the raw material for the earliest recognisable factories on American soil.

 

[ironroad 9c1]

Also remember, at least during our industrial revolution, we made quality products.

 

[Bob Heine]

I don't know who or what to boycott anymore. Looks like I just have to stop buying "stuff". Unfortunately the problem is bigger than just buying or not buying stuff from China or oil from Saudi Arabia. The US companies we think are supporting us are going after the profits, regardless of who it hurts.

From '66 to '75 I lived in New York in a house overlooking the Hudson river. The Central Hudson power plant was part of the view. Pretty white smoke came out of the stacks during the day so it always surprised me that sticky black dust covered my deck many mornings. The river was an opaque gray/brown. It had enough General Electric PCBs in it to kill or maim all the fish but was clean enough for Poughkeepsie's drinking water.

At the time I worked for IBM at their East Fishkill plant. We manufactured the electronic components used in the mainframe computers of the day. The chemicals and materials used in the manufacturing processes were toxic beyond belief, starting with arsenic. No one living near the plant died but IBM did some extraordinary things to clean up their polluted wells.

I moved to Boca Raton, Florida in 1975 and took part in the development of the IBM PC a few years later. In 1993, when the business hit hard times, IBM had its first layoff (in its 80th yerar of doing business - they didn't even lay off people in the Depression). I took the buyout and retired, with a full pension and medical.

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/02/16/business/first-layoffs-seen-at-ibm.html

IBM sold its PC business to Lenovo (Chinese company). Ironically, IBM also gave Lenovo the right to use its THINK trademark as well -- no longer needed by IBM.

http://www.accessmylibrary.com/article-1G1-126130694/bite-out-big-blue.html

IBM recognized that China was a great place to buy stuff as well so the company moved the Purchasing Division headquarters to China in 2006 and hired local folks to work there.

http://www.purchasing.com/article/221854-IBM_to_move_purchasing_headquarters_to_China.php

To save money, IBM eliminated its old fashioned retirement plan in 2006. The 401k is the only thing you'll hve so you better be good at investing.

This year, IBM got really creative. Because they got stimulus money to create new jobs, they couldn't just lay people off willy-nilly. Instead of just laying people off and moving their jobs overseas, IBM offered the employees the opportunity to go with their job -- to Brazil, China and India (or possibly the Czech Republic, Mexico, Nigeria, Russia, South Africa, and the United Arab Emirates). The job will come with the local salary, not your outrageous US salary. IBM will pay for your one-way ticket, visa application and some moving expenses.

http://arstechnica.com/business/news/2009/02/ibm-backflips-on-outsourcing-offers-to-move-workers-abroad.ars

I've included links to the actual stories because so much of it sounds like fabrication (not the good kind).

I'm not sure boycotting Chinese stuff will change what our US companies are doing to us. Every time they make one of these decisions, the top executives get a bigger bonus! Why on earth would they do the right thing.

 

[benjamming]

That's by and large true of the emergence of modern industry post WW1, but don't forget who picked the cotton that formed the raw material for the earliest recognisable factories on American soil.

Yep, my grandparents! That's why they only went to the 8th grade of formal education.

 

[Jononon]

Also remember, at least during our industrial revolution, we made quality products.

Mary had a little lamb
And when she saw it sicken
She shipped it off to Packingtown
And now it’s labelled chicken.

Yep, my grandparents! That's why they only went to the 8th grade of formal education.

Perhaps not the people, or as early as, I had in mind, but we now see children being sent to work as scandalous.

No reason not to see Chinese attitudes in a very bad light, of course, but some perspective is needed, IMHO.

 

[Mach1Guy]

The thing that worries me is, what will China do if too much of their country becomes too polluted to live on, and thy can't grow enough food to feed their people, will thy buy food from other countries or take it from other countries.

They will give us an ultimatum. Either you pay back your money that you (USA) owe us, or give us Alaska, Hawaii, and California.

Not to change the subject but here in central Kalifornia where farms are running out of water because a small fish that is not native to the area is causing pumps up north to be shut off.

Botom line, only buy food that is grown here in the USA and give us the water we need to grow it. Tools, cars, pens, toys are one thing.

Do you realize much of the food you put in your mouth comes from south of the border and even the wheat can come from China.

Wife thought I was a little over the top. Now she reads every label and is shocked, she is on the USA train now!!!!

WE grow nearly everything you eat right here in central Calif. In case you did not know. Grapes/raisins, oranges, figs, lettuce, tomato,garlic,nectarine,peaches,corn,strawberrys,beans,rice, and more.

One more note for your comment. this sunday i needed to pick up some canned mushrooms to doctor up a frozen pizza. Had to look at 3 different brands before i found one that was made in the USA and not in China. I believe that i may have my wife converted over to buying USA products now. Can't wait to show her what is going on in that country.


On an unrelated note, Can you imagine how well that country would compete with the US if they had all the environmental laws and regulations that we are required to follow here.

 

[scooby074]

Sad pictures.

Remember those pictures when searching for the lowest price at Walmart. The never ending quest for low prices is the main force behind them.

Lots of good points in this thread, especially the ones about electronics recycling. Heavens forbid we bury them here. THeres many pictures and videos on the net of people in undevloped countries burning the insulation off wires and melting down circuit boards. Incredibly toxic. Products used locally should be processed locally.

Another interesting thing is were currently on a solar energy wave here in north america. But making the silicon for these panels can generate some nasty byproducts. In these offshore countrys like india and china where most of this silicon comes from, theres major issues with improper waste disposal. Companies have been known to just dump it in farmers fields!

sort of ironic that our quest for a clean environment, is poisoning one on the other side of the world.

One has to wonder if China's (and other such places) competitive advantages would still be there if they were forced to abide by our environmental and worker safety regulations. China is a false economy IMHO.

I think its a stretch to compare the current situation to the Industrial Revolution. We know more now about the effects of these chemicals, plus todays chemicals are much more toxic then the ones of yesteryear. Any reasonable person would understand that dumping toxic waste in the river that your drinking water comes from isnt a good idea. Not everyone, and certainly not the company managers are naive peasants. This is criminal.

 

[cwstevens92]

I wont buy anymore of that stuff in fact i am selling everything i have from there

 

[alamerang]

You said it!! How many people who take issue with China or any third world country's practices go, without a pause, to Walmart and buy any variety ofthings? A lot; and a vast majority of that stuff is made in China.

So long as there is a demand, supply will be plentiful.

I have to agree with this. I mean so much stuff we buy now days comes out of China. Sure you can go buy stuff that says made in the USA but where did the tooling to make that product come from? Or the materials for that matter? How much steel is made in the USA anymore? I know every little bit helps, but just because you helped Bob the wrench maker by buying American doesn't mean you helped John the steel worker. I mean, if China can grow wheat and ship it to the US and still undercut a farmer that grew it less than 1000 miles away, we have a bigger problem than buying cheap Chinese ****.

We as a country have to rethink our economic role in this world and find a way to be more competitive instead of being all high and mighty sitting on Good Ol American Pride. As the saying goes, "Pride goeth before the fall." This country needs to wake up and start getting companies to invest in the US again instead of doing stupid things like raise taxes and energy costs just cause we can and we want to be all "green" and stuff like that.

We had the same problem in the 70s and 80s with Japan and when we changed our economic policies, we got the MADE IN USA label back in American homes. We just need to do it again.

 

[cashishift]

my friends give me all sorts of hell for being so "dead set" on buying american stuff..

i do currently drive a foreign car, but when i buy a tool.. i look at 10 different places to find one that was made in the US.

Try finding a good contractor quality drill that was made in the US? i don't believe one exists...

 

[stinkythings.com]

I just bought a 22 ton log splitter from Northern Tool. Research indicated it was an indestructible machine at an affordable price. A review on Northern tools website stated it was made in the USA. As I began to assemble the machine I noticed some hardware was metric and some was SAE. You can just tell something is made in China by the packaging.I noticed the hydraulic lines said Germany on them I got excited. WEll upon further inspection, the lines are made in CHINA, they have German design stamped on them as a way to mislead us. The Steel beam has a small MADE IN CHINA sticker on it as well as the hydraulic cylinder.The motor is a HONDA, made in Japan.I am happy with the machine, it works perfect and was priced right. I feel let down, knowing that it is made in China. Come on now the steel I -Beam is even chinese.
Wake Up America !

 

[Costner]

I just saw a story on television that stated 16 coal miners die every day in China (around 6000 a year) due to their lack of worker safety programs. The Chinese government has found it cheaper to pay off the dead worker's families - so it all comes down to economics.

Can you really tell me working in a steel mill or other manufacturing plant is any different? They know it is cheaper to pollute and kill workers than it is to improve things, because if they actually improved working conditions it would result in their products being more expensive, and then Joe Average wouldn't be able to pick up his 99 piece socket set for $14 at Wally-world.

I'm not sure we can really blame the Chinese for the problem though... the blame has to be placed upon us for wanting the most value for our dollar, and I don't think there is anything that will stop the trend until the Chinese people revolt and demand improvements. The American worker did it, and I have no doubt the Chinese worker will eventually figure it out as well.

 

[T VETTE]

They will give us an ultimatum. Either you pay back your money that you (USA) owe us, or give us Alaska, Hawaii, and California.



One more note for your comment. this sunday i needed to pick up some canned mushrooms to doctor up a frozen pizza. Had to look at 3 different brands before i found one that was made in the USA and not in China. I believe that i may have my wife converted over to buying USA products now. Can't wait to show her what is going on in that country.


On an unrelated note, Can you imagine how well that country would compete with the US if they had all the environmental laws and regulations that we are required to follow here.

****** One more person, one day at a time, will make a difference.
+++++++THINK USA BEFORE YOU BUY, especially what you put in your mouth to eat !!++++++++

 

[rustbucket49]

Re: Another reason not to buy chinese stuff

I have recently started looking closer at stuff I buy. I am trying to buy only American made. I needed a crescent wrench and picked up a Kobalt at Lowes. I noticed it was made in China so I put it back and went to Sears and bought a Craftsman.

Sitting here at my computer typing this, I picked up just a few items sitting here next to me:

- the desk light I have was made in China,
- my Canon digital camera was made in Malaysia,
- my little Brother label maker was made in China,
- my $49 eyeglass frames on my face were made in China,
- the damn elbow brace on my arthritic elbow was made in China,
- the fishing barometer sitting here on my desk was made in China
- the flash drive in my computer was made in China,
- the picture frames on my desk were made in Thailand,
- my house phone was made in China.

I read something about a week ago that was talking about the Chinese factories. They said with the recession related slowdowns, 67,000 factories in China had been shut down. SIXTY SEVEN THOUSAND!!!!! I am having a hard time even fathoming that - much less believing it. The same article quoted a pissed-off Chinese worker who was making some useless product - his quote was "why do Westerners buy this useless ****".... There were some female workers who wanted to quit their jobs because they were forced to work 16 hour days making inflatable frisbees. Why ???? - for some spoiled kid who has everything ??

I can't even buy an American made drywall screw ........ If you swear you will never buy Chinese, you are kidding yourself - corporate America, and our own arrogant greed, sold us out long ago.

 

[Zrexxer]

A review on Northern tools website stated it was made in the USA.

Be cautious with Northern's reviews. They jury reviews submitted, only positive ones are ever published to the website. I wrote two negative reviews about crappy products I purchased from them, neither one ever made it online - and I'm not talking about incoherent rants, I'm talking about well formulated, critical reviews.

 

[willy3486]

About the only thing made in America anymore is ilegal. Here in TN where I live the made in America things are prostitutes,moonshine and,meth . We need to get these other countries to make these things legal and then export them.

 

[rustbucket49]

Re: Another reason not to buy chinese stuff

I have recently started looking closer at stuff I buy. I am trying to buy only American made. I needed a crescent wrench and picked up a Kobalt at Lowes. I noticed it was made in China so I put it back and went to Sears and bought a Craftsman.

Sitting here at my computer typing this, I picked up just a few items sitting here next to me:

- the desk light I have was made in China,
- my Canon digital camera was made in Malaysia,
- my little Brother label maker was made in China,
- my $49 eyeglass frames on my face were made in China,
- the damn elbow brace on my arthritic elbow was made in China,
- the fishing barometer sitting here on my desk was made in China
- the flash drive in my computer was made in China,
- the picture frames on my desk were made in Thailand,
- my house phone was made in China.

I read something about a week ago that was talking about the Chinese factories. They said with the recession related slowdowns, 67,000 factories in China had been shut down. SIXTY SEVEN THOUSAND!!!!! I am having a hard time even fathoming that - much less believing it. The same article quoted a pissed-off Chinese worker who was making some useless product - his quote was "why do Westerners buy this useless ****".... There were some female workers who wanted to quit their jobs because they were forced to work 16 hour days making inflatable frisbees. Why ???? - for some spoiled kid who has everything ??

I can't even buy an American made drywall screw ........ If you swear you will never buy Chinese, you are kidding yourself - corporate America, and our own arrogant greed, sold us out long ago.

Addition to my list:

- MY BIBLE was printed in China !!!! That has to be a God thing......