THHN or Romex - Pole Building - New construction

[tinysparky]

Going through the threads there doesn't seem to be any thoughts on using Romex vs THHN - in - Conduit (Romex would not be in Conduit).

Building a 40x72 and have the option of either doing Romex and then closing the wall (option...)...or using EMT conduit with THHN ran inside.

My initial gut tells me use romex only....quick and easy. Is it that I am sacrificing future upgradeability??? why I should use conduit and THHN?

 

[Strouty]

Future changes **** ***. I don't have a pole barn, but I went romex andI wish I had done conduit. Honestly, I wish I had done surface mount, burying it in the wall is just a bad idea. Things change, but once it is in the wall it makes for a PITA.

 

[Radix2]

Why not both ?

Run romex to where you plan on things being since it is fast and cheap. Accept that you will come out of the walls and do conduit for things you haven't thought of yet.

So long as you get in the long runs to put the circuits where you need them in the basic area, you have saved most of the time and money.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Depending on how much stuff you are planning on screwing to the wall, you might want to consider using some BX just for safety running through the studs. However you *really* need to get the metal boxes straight when you attach them to the studs, they don't have any give like the plastic boxes.

If you wait till you have moved everything where you want it, then you can run conduit & place boxes exactly where you want them instead of trying to shift things around to accommodate where plugs are. Likewise if you ever move stuff or add / remove equipment the conduit is more versatile... Just plan on using slightly larger than what you initially need so you have capacity to add more wire.

Also there is a slight learning curve bending conduit but it's not rocket science...

 

[forAK]

Why not both ?

Run romex to where you plan on things being since it is fast and cheap. Accept that you will come out of the walls and do conduit for things you haven't thought of yet.

So long as you get in the long runs to put the circuits where you need them in the basic area, you have saved most of the time and money.

+

This is the best of both worlds. Even when thing change, you still need the original set up to stay the same. Adding for the future is a tough go when you don't know the future.

 

[Strouty]

I moved cabinets and lost all the outlets in one room, every outlet was covered, I couldn't win. Had I done external, I could have modified it without losing all the wire in the walls.

 

[Strouty]

What I really want to do is have a trough for the wires up along the ceiling, then do drops down to the outlets I need. I think it would have been so much cleaner and easy to change things as I moved stuff. A lot of times I have to rethink my moves based on outlet locations.

 

[sberry]

It never seems to work out anyway and usually need to remodel or run another pipe anyway. While it seems a great idea to future proof for every conceivable idea you can come up with most of it remains parked and is a huge waste of effort. I could remove at least 1/2 the wire I did install vs needing to add more.

 

[Norcal]

What I really want to do is have a trough for the wires up along the ceiling, then do drops down to the outlets I need. I think it would have been so much cleaner and easy to change things as I moved stuff. A lot of times I have to rethink my moves based on outlet locations.

Not as simple as one would think to use a gutter like what is proposed above, there is a limit to the number of conductors in a gutter.

 

[Strouty]

I agree there is a limit, but I was thinking more of relocation rather than for adding.

 

[matt_i]

Id put some basic outlets every so often in Romex. Then you can close the walls and move things in. Part of my conduit run that I added to the existing shop has a trunk line run in the attic around the perimeter of the building. I put in conduit body Ts and then went straight down thru the ceiling next to the wall where I needed various outlets.

Planning on the same thing for the new addition. The conduit goes in fairly easily even after heavy stuff is in place, the worst part is working in the super hot or super cold attic

 

[94EG8]

I might run conduit for something like a compressor where the wire size may change but the location will likely stay the same. But for things like outlets and lights I'd just go with Romex.

 

[RPH]

Mines a shop, I like the industrial look and I'm going with surface mounted conduit. Easy to change and has the look.

 

[happy2rv]

To me, it's a question of do you want to spend money on conduit or closing the walls. Each has it's advantages and disadvantages. I decided early on that I was going to cover my walls with OSB so I didn't even consider conduit. The OSB is functional and I kind of like the way it looks. The best part is I can and have unscrewed it to remove one or more panels for access after the initial installation.

You certainly could do conduit behind a covered wall. It does offer some protection from the errant nail or screw and it does offer some degree of future proof. But the reality, as others have already suggested is the future requirements are rarely where you think they might be. It's pretty unusual that you say, I want to replace that 110V outlet with a 230V outlet in the same spot and it will fit in the same box. It's much more usual that you add a piece of equipment where nothing exists and say now I need the appropriate power there. The conduit wouldn't help you with that unless you went way overboard and even then, you would have to have appropriate boxes at the ends of the conduit.

There are a couple of places conduit can be helpful for future proofing, especially if you drywall where you can't easily open things up. One is low voltage wiring where you can mix different types of wiring. Even if you "future" proof by installing a couple of cat6 in multiple locations, you might decide you need speaker wire or some other type of low voltage wire in that same location. Another situation is when you know you will want a compressor or a tool in a specific location but you haven't picked out a particular model. Then you can run empty conduit to a box that will be appropriate for most models and actually run copper when you figure out exactly what you need without opening the walls again.

Certainly anywhere that's difficult or expensive to gain future access to, if there's any reasonable likelihood of future needs, it makes sense to run conduit (and multiple runs). For example from floor to floor in a multi-story structure with limited access between them or when burying electrical conduit from the house to the garage.

 

[barnjunkie]

I would suggest picking what you want to go with and installing receptacles every 6 Ft or so. That way you can install the 220v runs as needed when you figure out where you want everything.
It is wayyyy too expensive to run anything and tear it out later. By the time you get done installing your "temporary" wiring, you'll see how those .50 cent items add up to thousands of dollars.

 

[nsula_country]

IMHO.... In a shop ,surface mounted EMT with stranded wire will always win over Romex NM wiring.

Romex, cheap, easy, must be routed out of the way. Not so easy to cleanly add on or modify. Best suited for residential wiring. If not in a wall, cannot be below 8' (I think). Looks tacky exposed.

EMT Conduit (I hate PVC in a building), not so cheap, durable, easy to add a run later. Looks better. IMC and Rigid overkill outside of an industrial application.

CT

 

[Norcal]

Depending on how much stuff you are planning on screwing to the wall, you might want to consider using some BX just for safety running through the studs. However you *really* need to get the metal boxes straight when you attach them to the studs, they don't have any give like the plastic boxes.

If you wait till you have moved everything where you want it, then you can run conduit & place boxes exactly where you want them instead of trying to shift things around to accommodate where plugs are. Likewise if you ever move stuff or add / remove equipment the conduit is more versatile... Just plan on using slightly larger than what you initially need so you have capacity to add more wire.

Also there is a slight learning curve bending conduit but it's not rocket science...

BX is not a commonly available product.

 

[nsula_country]

BX is not a commonly available product.

Last time I walked through Home Depot, they had a metric ton of loaded BX and the tools to install it....

CT

 

[Norcal]

Last time I walked through Home Depot, they had a metric ton of loaded BX and the tools to install it....

CT

"BX" is AC cable, what is sold at HD is MC cable, they are covered under different code articles (320 & 330). They both have the same requirement as NM cable for protection from physical damage.

 

[ishiboo]

Depending on how much stuff you are planning on screwing to the wall, you might want to consider using some BX just for safety running through the studs. However you *really* need to get the metal boxes straight when you attach them to the studs, they don't have any give like the plastic boxes.

If you wait till you have moved everything where you want it, then you can run conduit & place boxes exactly where you want them instead of trying to shift things around to accommodate where plugs are. Likewise if you ever move stuff or add / remove equipment the conduit is more versatile... Just plan on using slightly larger than what you initially need so you have capacity to add more wire.

Also there is a slight learning curve bending conduit but it's not rocket science...

A screw will run right through both aluminum and steel flex.

 

[ishiboo]

I personally like the hidden look, but I understand the need for future upgradability. What about like a 6" base trim that could be easily removed (you could even attach it with magnets), so it'd be easy to run wire all the way around the perimeter, and then you'd just fish up to the outlet location? You could do similar with wainscoting.

 

[nsula_country]

"BX" is AC cable, what is sold at HD is MC cable, they are covered under different code articles (320 & 330). They both have the same requirement as NM cable for protection from physical damage.

"Most people" use BX as a trade name for armored cable. Box stores and supply houses carry both AC and MC Lite. AC has a bonding strip in the jacket and MC has a separate ground wire.

CT

 

[sberry]

Its highly unlikely that a guy needs access to "everywhere" but I tend to agree that a way to do revisions is very poor in a lot of residential condstruction, really cave man primitive, drywall all the way above a panel. just see a church the same way. Its great the panel is only 1/2 full but both panels on an outside wall and it would have been a simple matter to locate them in the utility room on the surface with a raceway cover above them.
Same for the spark that wired the kitchen, didn't see any difference here with a single circuit for 2o ft of counter space, serving window vs a common home kitchen. Really sorry design work.;

 

[nsula_country]

If nothing else... SURFACE MOUNT THE LOAD CENTER!

CT

 

[tinysparky]

Thanks everyone for your reply. Leaning towards Romex and not closing it in.

 

[padroo]

My garage is done in conduit because it is a block building. I store things up in the rafters so the conduit protects the wiring but if I were to cover my walls I would have used Romex.

 

[AndyCBR]

Going through the threads there doesn't seem to be any thoughts on using Romex vs THHN - in - Conduit (Romex would not be in Conduit).

Building a 40x72 and have the option of either doing Romex and then closing the wall (option...)...or using EMT conduit with THHN ran inside.

My initial gut tells me use romex only....quick and easy. Is it that I am sacrificing future upgradeability??? why I should use conduit and THHN?

Romex is so damn cheap I have no idea why anyone else would do otherwise in a building that allowed it. I agree upgrading is an issue but if that is the case just jerk another run in whatever gauge you need.

A metal building where codes require metal clad or conduit, yes, armored cable or conduit.

A wood framed pole building where you can run the romex behind the poles, romex for sure.

 

[slodat]

You don't get to do NM and not close in the wall. It's unprotected...


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[AndyCBR]

You don't get to do NM and not close in the wall. It's unprotected...


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This depends on the AHJ. Many buildings can be run with romex with open walls in certain parts of the country.

 

[slodat]

I didn't think the AHJ could be less restrictive than NEC and I thought NM had to be protected..?


No way I'd use NM in a shop. 100% EMT in my shop.

 

[AndyCBR]

I didn't think the AHJ could be less restrictive than NEC and I thought NM had to be protected..?


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Many jurisdictions vary on their interpretation of "protected". Additionally, many jurisdictions are enforcing code based on the NEC from a decade or more ago.

 

[slodat]

Ahh. Not where I live.. Also.. in a shop, I want conductors protected..

 

[AndyCBR]

Ahh. Not where I live.. Also.. in a shop, I want conductors protected..

Then it's an easy decision for you!

 

[checkthisout]

Doing conduit after the fact means you can button up your building now and get all the interior finish work done without having to plan for outlets around shelves, benches, where lifts will go etc....you can get the **** part out of the way (insulation and wall covering) done and not have to trim around outlets and boxes etc.

Then, do your electric later. You can fit 4 circuits inside a 1/2 conduit, if you use MWBC then you can get like 6 circuits (20 amp) in there. conduit looks good and allows you so much versatility.



Disclaimer: Wish I had had used conduit.

 

[86turbodsl]

I did both. Romex in walls for plugs that aren't ever moving, like all 120v receptacles. Then conduit for stuff that MAY move, such as machines, welders, etc.

 

[NuthinFancy]

Not sure what kind of 'shop' you're building there, but you may might want to consider putting a few outlets at least 48" above the finished floor. Workbenches and other items on the floor can quickly cover up outlets located close to the floor.

 

[BLUE72CAMARO]

Why not both ?

Run romex to where you plan on things being since it is fast and cheap. Accept that you will come out of the walls and do conduit for things you haven't thought of yet.

So long as you get in the long runs to put the circuits where you need them in the basic area, you have saved most of the time and money.

This is exactly what I have done on my shop that I am finishing right now. All the stuff I know I need, mostly 120V and a few 240V welding plugs are in the walls. All my equipment wiring will be surface ran once I figure out what I need and where I want it.