IR Compressor Pump Questions

[mineallmine]

I just picked up an Ingersoll Rand Compressor pump this weekend. It came with a tank I wanted to use for a dual stage 5hp Webster compressor I am building.

It is a 30 series pump model 57T. It is a MONSTER!! Makes my Webster look small (which isn't small to begin with).

Any info on these? If I did my research right would this be a 7.5hp compressor? The guy I got it from said it was 5hp but I am doubting that. If it is I was considering building it as well as I have access to a single phase 220V 5HP motor.

Everything appears nice and tight, no play in the crank and when you rotate it by hand it puts out air.

Would this be a better compressor to build than the Webster?

 

[md21722]

I am not familiar with this model, but a quick search turned up this:

 

[Franz1.0©]

Same jug for 5 & 7½ horsepower was common in the days of cast iron machines when most compressors were sold to industry.
A jug driven at 5 would run slower than the same jug with 7½ hp.
More horses = more speed = more cfm also = less machine life

 

[MacMcMacmac]

The IR would probably be a much better bet than the Webster. Webster parts were still relatively easy to source up to around 2000, but I am not sure if that is still the case. When Webster went under, the rights to the name and parts were bought up by the employees and they kept making batches of the more common parts for awhile (so I have been told). I am not sure if this is still the case. I would bet the IR parts are still readily available. The IR is probably a better machine anyway. Wesbters would often suffer from small end wear, and with the rods having no bushings in them (bronze or aluminum), it was either machine the holes and press in a new bushing, or put in a new rod. They usually had no bearings on the big end either, so you had to grind down the rod caps to take up any slop in the big end. None of this is a big deal if you are handy. This is not the case if it is one of the last models they built, as they had switched over to plain bearings and roller bearing small ends near the end of production. Still, Websters often had some bad ideas, like valves being held in place with heavy gaskets, and the quality of the cast iron they used wasn't the best. The HP pistons often suffered from pin bores worn out of round. All I am saying is be prepared for a bit of work if the Webster has been well used or neglected. Still, I have a bit of a soft spot for them; they were massive and slow turning beasts. I snagged a Model 65 for my BIL from an old firehouse back in the late 90's. It was built in 1966 and still runs perfectly.

Rings and valve parts will be the killer if they are not available.

Here is a useful tidbit, the first two numbers in the serial number is the model number.

There are few compressors easier to overhaul than an IR Type 30.

 

[mineallmine]

I am still deciding what to do with the pump. I am also thinking to build both, run them each for a bit and decide which I like better. It also gives me a backup while I find out the true operating condition of each.

What RPM should one of these run? The Baldor 5hp Farm duty motor that came on my Webster runs 1730-1740rpm. It is single phase 220V. IIRC the 7.5 hp single phase motors I found run about the same RPM. Will this work well with the IR? Could I just put the 5hp on the IR or should I look for a 7.5HP motor?

My research puts this pump somewhere around the late 60's

 

[Provincial]

I have an IR 7.5hp Model 2475 with the T30 pump. It is a beast, and puts out a tremendous amount of air. Unless you are going to do serious sandblasting, you should stick to your 5hp motor, since single phase power isn't designed to take the starting loads of the bigger motors. If you live in a residential neighborhood, you may dim the lights when the compressor kicks in, because the power grid isn't designed for the high amp surges.

I have 3 phase power, but if I wanted a 7.5hp compressor on single phase, I would look at a rotary phase converter or a soft-start Variable Frequency Drive. The VFD would only be used as a phase converter and soft-start, not to vary the speed of the motor. That way you could avoid the pitfalls of starting the big motor on single phase. The rotary converter has a "flywheel effect" by running a 3-phase motor on the single phase power to provide sort of three phase power to your motor. The converter armature slows down slightly when the big load of the compressor kicks in, but the inertia of the heavy armature resists the load.

The drawback of the rotary converter is that you can only run the compressor when the converter is running, so you either run it all the time, or shut off both the compressor and converter when you are not intending to use it. The converter consumes power when running, so you don't want it running all the time.

The soft-start VFD can be left on all the time, but will be somewhat expensive. Phase Perfect electronic phase converters are easier to set up and install and don't consume much power on idle, but are also expensive.

To review, stick to 5hp unless you need a lot more air volume.

 

[Provincial]

More input: The T30 pump is an ancient design, but also an excellent design. It is very durable and easy to work on. Make sure you have an intercooler between the first and second stages, usually a finned tube in the belt guard. An excellent option (which my 7.5hp unit has) is a discharge aftercooler (radiator) mounted to the belt guard. By cooling the air, you effectively get a larger compressor (more output) and the air isn't holding moisture as well.

To run your T30 on a 5hp motor, you just use a smaller drive pulley. It drives the compressor head at a lower RPM, hence less output. IR sells these units in both 5 and 7.5 horsepower with the same compressor assembly.

 

[md21722]

I tend to agree, if you have the IR, I would run that one. You can call and ask your power company if the power in your area is good for starting a 7.5HP motor. A lot of times, manufacturers don't even build 10 HP single phase configurations because they don't want to warranty the motors. VFD is fine, but must be upsized about 2X when phase converting. So for a 7.5 HP three phase motor, you need a 15 HP VFD capable of converting single phase into phase converting. They are about $1000 at 7.5 HP. You can search around driveswarehouse.com as one source. The IR's run at higher RPM, and are designed to be, but don't always sound like they are hammering away like a HF inline unit...

 

[mineallmine]

The IR would probably be a much better bet than the Webster. Webster parts were still relatively easy to source up to around 2000, but I am not sure if that is still the case. When Webster went under, the rights to the name and parts were bought up by the employees and they kept making batches of the more common parts for awhile (so I have been told). I am not sure if this is still the case. I would bet the IR parts are still readily available. The IR is probably a better machine anyway. Wesbters would often suffer from small end wear, and with the rods having no bushings in them (bronze or aluminum), it was either machine the holes and press in a new bushing, or put in a new rod. They usually had no bearings on the big end either, so you had to grind down the rod caps to take up any slop in the big end. None of this is a big deal if you are handy. This is not the case if it is one of the last models they built, as they had switched over to plain bearings and roller bearing small ends near the end of production. Still, Websters often had some bad ideas, like valves being held in place with heavy gaskets, and the quality of the cast iron they used wasn't the best. The HP pistons often suffered from pin bores worn out of round. All I am saying is be prepared for a bit of work if the Webster has been well used or neglected. Still, I have a bit of a soft spot for them; they were massive and slow turning beasts. I snagged a Model 65 for my BIL from an old firehouse back in the late 90's. It was built in 1966 and still runs perfectly.

Rings and valve parts will be the killer if they are not available.

Here is a useful tidbit, the first two numbers in the serial number is the model number.

There are few compressors easier to overhaul than an IR Type 30.

My Webster is a model 65 as well. It had the 5hp motor mounted on it as well. I like that it has the intercooler between the first and second stage.

The IR has 8 finned tubes running from the first to second stage behind the pump pulley/fan.

I am going to try to upload a couple of pictures later

Neither appears to have been abused and everthing on both seems nice and tight. (other than the awful purple paint that was sprayed on the upper portion of the IR pump

 

[mineallmine]

Here's some pictures. The tank here is a 60 gallon cast iron tank from 1952 iirc. I still have to hydro test it but am pretty confident in it. The walls of the tank are 1/4" thick. I also have a nice Webster tank that came with the IR pump.