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Craftsman 5198. Who made these awesome vises!!

econotrk

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Let's get back on topic. The Columbian theory probably comes from this vise restored by former vise guru Catalyze. My theory is that Columbian took over production in late 50's early 60's. They kept some of the previous maker's look. Rock Island was probably that maker. If they went out of the vise game, Columbian was free to use their style without fear of infringement.
Rock island gets my vote:
1. Jaws
2. Date stamp on top of beam
3. Shipped from Illinois
4. Weight similar to Rock island
5. Previous maker of Craftsman vises.

All good points FT. I've personally never held a Rock Island, but I'm leaning that way too.

I know the Craftsman products were made by various companies to Sears specs, but it seems to me if Columbian were the manufacturer, the 519x series would've been hollow too as that is their practice.

Are the Craftsman vises that are known rebadged Columbians hollow?
 
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bluebolt

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All good points FT. I've personally never held a Rock Island, but I'm leaning that way too.

I know the Craftsman products were made by various companies to Sears specs, but it seems to me if Columbian were the manufacturer, the 519x series would've been hollow to as that is their practice.

Are the Craftsman vises that are known rebadged Columbians hollow?

I don't know if the Columbian Craftsman vises are hollow but the weights are drastically different. A 5198 shipping weight is 95 pounds. The follow on Columbian Craftsman 5" wide jaw vise 5184 shipping weight is 50 pounds plus the swivel base 5186 shipping weight of 8 pounds for a total of 58 pounds, that's 37 pounds difference!
 

bluebolt

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That's exactly why I wanted to se some Rock Island numbers on the swivel and the main nut thanks Fullthrottle24!
 
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drivesitfar

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FT: awesome research!!

here's Bl00's post FT posted the link for about Rock Island vise company for this thread to make it easier to read than hitting links.

Some good history here:
http://trowelcollector.blogspot.com/...turing-co.html


Birtman Electric Co. of Chicago acquired Rock Island Manufacturing Co. on January 12, 1930. Birtman Electric made vacuum cleaners, irons, toasters, and other household electric products until merging with Whirlpool-Seeger Corp. in 1957. The Rock Island plant continued to make vises and other tools until closing in 1959. The "Michigan Manufacturer and Financial Record", Volumes 103-104, 1959 states, “Production Tool Supply Co., of Warren, Michigan, announces the purchase of the Rock Island Vise Co. The entire inventory of the Illinois firm will be moved to Warren, said D. D. Kahn, Production Tool president.”


I wonder if Production Tool Supply ever made any vises or just sold off the assets.

here's the picture with Rock Island part #'s on it to compare to Craftsman 519x's #'s.

ALL: even if you only have one 519x vise please post it up with the date stamp and any part #'s so we can still figure this out. thanks in advance!!
 

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cbacres

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Here are my two. First one I picked up is a 5191 4" vise. It is date stamped 4-56. Just added a little lube and it operates so smooth. The oil port has a ball spring in it. I really like the look of the hefty nose with the grooves.
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jreb10

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Interesting cbacres. I have been noticing that most of the 51xx vises that turn up have the oval Craftsman badge with the small wings. I have seen only a few with "Craftsman" cast into the side.

I have been curious to know which versions were the older ones. I had thought that perhaps the cast "Craftsman" versions were older, as the previous Reeds and Rock island vises had cast -in labels. But you vise is telling a different story.

Another mystery.
 

fullthrottle24

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Interesting cbacres. I have been noticing that most of the 51xx vises that turn up have the oval Craftsman badge with the small wings. I have seen only a few with "Craftsman" cast into the side.

I have been curious to know which versions were the older ones. I had thought that perhaps the cast "Craftsman" versions were older, as the previous Reeds and Rock island vises had cast -in labels. But you vise is telling a different story.

Another mystery.

The heritage logo ones are the older ones, IMHO. I've seen just as many cast in craftsman 51xx as I have heritage logo ones, at least here on GJ.

Now just to make it more interesting, the Reed craftsman vises also had different versions. One used the craftsman with the "C" underline the other the heritage logo. Not to mention the change in bulb nose to the flat nose. I'm still hunting for a couple of craftsman Reed's.
 

cbacres

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Here's the other one I have.its a Crowntop. It's a 51830, I can't find any date stamps anywhere. This one was just about froze up wheni bought, couple squirts of penetrate oil and freed right up. What year class do you all think this is?
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bea9bf1af7c4d03acbbdc59a3832a628.jpg
 

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cbacres

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Interesting cbacres. I have been noticing that most of the 51xx vises that turn up have the oval Craftsman badge with the small wings. I have seen only a few with "Craftsman" cast into the side.

I have been curious to know which versions were the older ones. I had thought that perhaps the cast "Craftsman" versions were older, as the previous Reeds and Rock island vises had cast -in labels. But you vise is telling a different story.

Another mystery.

My favorite is the oval logo you mentioned. I see Drives has one dated 51'. I would love to find one like that. I love the big squared off round nose on it.

The heritage logo ones are the older ones, IMHO. I've seen just as many cast in craftsman 51xx as I have heritage logo ones, at least here on GJ.

Now just to make it more interesting, the Reed craftsman vises also had different versions. One used the craftsman with the "C" underline the other the heritage logo. Not to mention the change in bulb nose to the flat nose. I'm still hunting for a couple of craftsman Reed's.

Do you have any reference pics of the CM Reed?
 

cbacres

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I don't know if the Columbian Craftsman vises are hollow but the weights are drastically different. A 5198 shipping weight is 95 pounds. The follow on Columbian Craftsman 5" wide jaw vise 5184 shipping weight is 50 pounds plus the swivel base 5186 shipping weight of 8 pounds for a total of 58 pounds, that's 37 pounds difference!

BB, the 51830 I posted below is hollow, the 5191 I posted isn't open on the bottom, I'll pull,the slide to look at the main casting soon.
 

fullthrottle24

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Do you have any reference pics of the CM Reed?

Here are two I pulled from here on GJ
 

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fullthrottle24

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Here's the other one I have.its a Crowntop. It's a 51830, I can't find any date stamps anywhere. This one was just about froze up wheni bought, couple squirts of penetrate oil and freed right up. What year class do you all think this is?
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1960's Columbian.
 

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ncboat

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Here are pictures of my latest acquisition with the slide dated 9 52. I will look for part numbers when I am physically able to get it out of the box. Thanks for the encouragement Drives
 

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Smokeshow69

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Does anyone else notice that the end screw tip looks like a plvmb socket turned sideways with the rings around it? I can't help but think that each time I see one of these vises! I am on the lookout for one but these are tough to find :)
 
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drivesitfar

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NC: so in a matter of maybe a month or maybe 5-6 weeks you've managed to find and buy a REED 1C, Prentiss Coachmaker's, REED 4C, and now a CRAFTSMAN 5197. you sir are AMAZING and congrats on all your finds and especially your latest find you just posted. WELL DONE!!!

thanks for posting the hub 5197 and the date stamp and if you do take it apart and see any other #'s or anything interesting please post them up.

thanks in advance cause i'm sure you'll find a 5198 soon and maybe a REED 109 so post them up when you find those too.

SMOKE: i love the Craftsman 519x's and you are so right there aren't a lot of them around here. i think that might be why i like them so much cause they resemble the PLVMB sockets or vise versa.

cheers
 
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PghJKB

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https://www.ebay.com/itm/201818397229
What kind of prices are you finding on these? I asked this seller for the model number and jaw size. Response was 05195, and 3.57" x 1.25".

LesserSon
The jaws on that one seem a bit funky, to say the least.

Will post some pics of my 5191 and 5192 as soon as I can get my camera battery to charge. The 5291 is a heritage logo and the 5192 is the cast Crown era logo. Both have smaller and tighter fitting jaws.

JKB
 
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drivesitfar

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JKB: i can't say i've ever seen or heard of a 5192 so i'd be interested in seeing it to. i think you accidentally changed up the #'s on the second time you mentioned it or maybe it's a 5182?

love to see lots of pictures if it actually is a 5192.

thanks for stopping in and i bet with all your research ability if I (we) give you the right clue maybe we can figure this mystery out eventually.

ALL: anybody else have 519x series Craftsman vises to post pictures of and make sure you post the date stamp and any other #'s you see on the vise top to bottom if you would please.

thank you all in advance!!
 

PghJKB

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JKB: i can't say i've ever seen or heard of a 5192 so i'd be interested in seeing it to. i think you accidentally changed up the #'s on the second time you mentioned it or maybe it's a 5182?

love to see lots of pictures if it actually is a 5192.

thanks for stopping in and i bet with all your research ability if I (we) give you the right clue maybe we can figure this mystery out eventually.

ALL: anybody else have 519x series Craftsman vises to post pictures of and make sure you post the date stamp and any other #'s you see on the vise top to bottom if you would please.

thank you all in advance!!

Drives
I stand corrected, they are 5191 and 5196 - both have 4 inch jaws and will be donors for my 519X FrankenVise. The front jaw is bad and main screw is heavily pitted and seized on the 96 and the 91 is missing it's chin. (One day we may be able to Laser sinter a new chin (DMLS), so I am keeping the 5191 base.)

I only have $22.00 into the pair. I think I did OK for the resulting 5191-6F.

The battery seems to be charged, now I am getting CHR errors. Hey it's digital and 12 years old.....

JKB
 
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drivesitfar

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JKB: it's always nice to make two broken vises into one good one. since i don't have my 5191 any longer was it really the same jaw width as the 5196? so what else are the differences and why the different model #'s.

glad to hear i don't have to start searching for a 5192, but if you jaw widths are a 1/4 inch or 1/2 inch apart maybe your Frankenvise might be the 5192 version.

ALL: so i was looking back through the pages of this thread and there are not a lot of 519x's posted (appreciate the members that have posted theirs), but i looked at CB's huge picture that just showed the back of the dynamic and it looks exactly like a ROCK ISLAND VISE.

post up those pictures of your 519x's when you have time too. thanks
 

TitanFab

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Hey First time posting, I have been looking to get more information on some of the tools in my shop. I have 4 Vises that are pretty cool.
One is a Craftsman 391.5199. Pretty big vise, It uses a Standard thread lead screw instead of acme. It has a 8" Jaw. Made in Japan. I have not found any date stamping.
I have not been able to match any pictures either. Any Information would be great.
This is not an old old Vise, it came from a high school shop. The name and # are not cast into it they are on plates riveted to the vise.

I also have a Colombian 608, its a monster.
Reed 205r,
Chase Parker No. 107
 
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meatsis

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LesserSon
The jaws on that one seem a bit funky, to say the least.

Will post some pics of my 5191 and 5192 as soon as I can get my camera battery to charge. The 5291 is a heritage logo and the 5192 is the cast Crown era logo. Both have smaller and tighter fitting jaws.

JKB



Those jaws look funky because someone took them off and installed them upside down.
 

meatsis

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Does putting them on upside down also make them too wide for the jaw towers? :) :)

JKB



My mistake. I only looked at the first picture. I didn't scroll through the rest of them. I have a 5197 that looked like that when I bought it. The jaws were not aligned, and they were slightly angled down. Once I removed them and refit them correctly, they lined up perfectly.:thumbup:
 
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drivesitfar

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Titan: i'm guessing your 5199 is a Columbian made in Japan vise, but we'd still like to see a few pictures if you can post up a few here on this thread. for those other great vises you have here's the link to the biggest vise thread on the internet that you can post up a few pictures on:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44782

also welcome to the group and since you have a few nice vises i think with a positive attitude you should fit in and have some fun here on GJ.

cheers

JKB: any luck with the camera and maybe a few pictures of the Frankenvise 5192 or whatever # you want to give it?
 

Slackmaster G

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I just bought a reed 204 and it looks a lot like that craftsman vise. The action is the easiest and smoothest of my numerous vises . Not as stout as the athol ,as big as the Parker 955 or simple as the Colombian but a little wd 40 and spins with one finger all the way in and out
 

feb80

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Hello everyone! I was referred to you guys for some help by one of the senior members of this forum. My dad passed away last March and while going thru his belongings I found a Craftsman vise Model 05195 - 3 1/2" I would very much like to get this back in working order but know very little about these things. The jaws on the vise do not open when you turn the screw - but they do close when you screw it in. I believe something is missing- possibly some type of collar, spring or set screw, but I'm not certain. Would you have schematic or owners manual for your particular model that you could share?
Not sure what other information I can provide but will be happy to do so.
Appreciate any assistance you can provide. Thanks.
 
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drivesitfar

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Feb: you have a great vise and most likely it's missing it's threaded sleeve that holds the main screw to the dynamic jaw. can you post up a few pictures of your vise and of the underside? i'm not sure i have any pictures of the sleeve on this computer, but it looks like a ring. on my 519x's that i've taken apart they are threaded, but not sure all are or even if a replacement would need to be.

welcome to the group and sorry to hear that your dad passed. he did have a great vise to pass on to you though and if you need more help posting pictures or getting that vise back in working order just ask.

cheers
 

feb80

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Drivesitfar - After review I would tend to agree with you that a threaded sleeve is needed. I did come up with a solution, as I have no idea where one would find such a sleeve. I purchased a 3/4" shaft collar with set screw and some machinery bushings. Slid the main screw into the housing, then the bushing and collar onto the screw. Tightened the set screw and I'm back in business. Would be nice to know if any other 05195 owners could comment and if a source is known to obtain the proper part.
I appreciate all the assistance. Didn't realize there was so much to learn about vises. Glad I happened upon this source. Hopefully I didn't screw it up (no pun intended) :)
 

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drivesitfar

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FEB: if your vise works then you are good to go. finding parts for 60 year old vises you'll need some luck or maybe an Ebay find. one of the members CRS posted up his 5195 taken apart over on the big vise thread last week when you were asking and another member NCBoat posted up his sleeve on his 5197 that is a similar vise and just a bit bigger.

you sir have a great vise there especially now that it's working and the 519x's are maybe my favorite vises and i own more than a few.

you didn't harm a thing posting up about your vise on several threads and as you get to know your way around this place you'll gain a lot of information on all sorts of things besides vises.

cheers and again welcome
 

PghJKB

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Two 519x's

Camera seems to be working well, so here are some images of my Craftsman 519x series.

A word of caution, both were found in adverse conditions and they are the worse for it. Discretion is advised.

The 5195 was on an old concrete floor (poured before before vapor barriers were used) on the bottom of a pile of junk covered with a canvas tarp against the outside wall of a garage that was below grade and looked to pass a good deal of moisture. The canvas retained the moisture and the front jaw, handle and nose are pretty much toast. There is significant pitting all over.

The 5191 also sat on the floor of an old garage, under a bench. It was on its side and also has some moisture problems. Apparently the previous owner was a Tarzan type who beat on things held in vise jaws with a heavy hammer. The "chin" is missing. From my research, these things tend to have glass chins....

My plan, once the weather warms up, is to e-tank them, take them apart and combine the two. Front jaw of the 91 to the rear jaw of the 95.

Have not gotten enough corrosion off to be able to move the front jaws or read the date stamps.

My 2¢ on the manufacturer is Made In Japan. They have some Rock Island characteristics, they have some Reed characteristics, they have some Starrett characteristics, and No Where is the vise marked Made In U.S.A.. For me, this is typical post war Japan - no innovation, but a tremendous ability to improve on the designs of others.

Once I get them e-tanked, I am going to compare the jaws to the ones on my Craftsman 518x series and my RI 574. See how they stack up - Sears may have had the vises made in Japan but sourced the jaws from Rock Island.

JKB
 

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fullthrottle24

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I don't think these were made in Japan. The first made in Japan craftsman vises are those with 391 prefixes, late 60's to 70's when Columbian was going down the tubes. I'm wondering if Japan was even capable of manufacturing much of anything in early 50's, weren't they still recovering from WWII?
 

PghJKB

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I don't think these were made in Japan. The first made in Japan craftsman vises are those with 391 prefixes, late 60's to 70's when Columbian was going down the tubes. I'm wondering if Japan was even capable of manufacturing much of anything in early 50's, weren't they still recovering from WWII?

The Japanese were/are excellent metalsmiths - for example, samurai swords. During the Marshall Plan the US poured billions (yes, 2.4 billion) into Japan from the end of the war until 1953 - Source is Wikipedia. Note the money was not part of the Marshall Plan, but grants and other aid. Back then 2.4 billion bought/built/rebuilt a lot of infrastructure.

Since you are using the later Craftsmans as examples, note the the 506 prefixed Craftsman had Made In U.S.A embossed directly under the Maker.Model code. The 391 prefixed Craftsmans had nothing under the Maker.Model code and a very faint Made In Japan on the bottom of the swivel base. While both are marked, the US made vises are much easier to identify.

The thing that has me convinced, as I stated before, no Made In U.S.A. any where on this line of vises.

JKB
 

Cruzan80

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But nothing else from this era is Japanese made. It would have made no sense to import vises and the ensuing bad reputation when all the rest was Made in USA. All the hand tools were made by companies in the US, so why would they import the heaviest pieces?
 

Smokeshow69

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Re: Two 519x's

Camera seems to be working well, so here are some images of my Craftsman 519x series.

A word of caution, both were found in adverse conditions and they are the worse for it. Discretion is advised.

The 5195 was on an old concrete floor (poured before before vapor barriers were used) on the bottom of a pile of junk covered with a canvas tarp against the outside wall of a garage that was below grade and looked to pass a good deal of moisture. The canvas retained the moisture and the front jaw, handle and nose are pretty much toast. There is significant pitting all over.

The 5191 also sat on the floor of an old garage, under a bench. It was on its side and also has some moisture problems. Apparently the previous owner was a Tarzan type who beat on things held in vise jaws with a heavy hammer. The "chin" is missing. From my research, these things tend to have glass chins....

My plan, once the weather warms up, is to e-tank them, take them apart and combine the two. Front jaw of the 91 to the rear jaw of the 95.

Have not gotten enough corrosion off to be able to move the front jaws or read the date stamps.

My 2¢ on the manufacturer is Made In Japan. They have some Rock Island characteristics, they have some Reed characteristics, they have some Starrett characteristics, and No Where is the vise marked Made In U.S.A.. For me, this is typical post war Japan - no innovation, but a tremendous ability to improve on the designs of others.

Once I get them e-tanked, I am going to compare the jaws to the ones on my Craftsman 518x series and my RI 574. See how they stack up - Sears may have had the vises made in Japan but sourced the jaws from Rock Island.

JKB

I will be interested to see those vises as you start to de rust them! I don't think they are as far gone as you think although you will still see the pitting. I would just e tank them, paint and restore them and use them! At least in their condition you don't have to be worried about ruining a super valuable vise :rocker:
 
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