4 zone led lights - series vs parallel?

[Borntoolate]

33x33 shop metal building. Bought 20 4' led lights from Costco. Not yet received. Am planning to have 4 switches for four main lighting areas. May only end up with three areas. Thinking the largest area will have ten lights +\-. 16' metal building so peak is probably 24' or something. Final drawings not yet received. Live in US so have 120V.

Go to bottom of thread to see the final product with pics. Updated 12/27/18

 

[Borntoolate]

Btw. My first post. Nice forum. Hello all

 

[mike93lx]

There is no series vs parallel with this type of hookup. Maybe you should hire an electrician.

 

[Borntoolate]

Sure there is. They won't be plugged into outlets. Clearly they can be wired up either way.

 

[kd3pc]

There is no series vs parallel with this type of hookup. Maybe you should hire an electrician.

+1 on this.

Perhaps it is just a communication error, but both of those descriptors - specify a certain way of installing things. But they say much more than that when it comes to electrical loads like lighting, or power control devices like switches, breakers and the like.

 

[kd3pc]

Sure there is. They won't be plugged into outlets. Clearly they can be wired up either way.

The outlet is simply providing AC power to ONE unit...In order to work, one needs to have a control device of adequate current/voltage capability.

They can NOT be wired either way, and you need to educate your self on the how and why that is...Clearly you do not understand the facts of the process.

Perhaps you are looking at the layout of the fixtures? Being parallel or series...that has ZERO to do with how they are wired.

bests

others will chime in, I am sure.

 

[Borntoolate]

Exactly why I asked the question.

I am not an electrician, obviously, but I get the series vs parallel volt/amp rules and one bad light in series kills the hole string. What I am not familiar with is led lights and any particulars about them. I read a few articles and one suggesting using a driver but that seems like over thinking. If it were two lights I wouldn't think much about it but 10 on one switch probably needs additional thought and in particular are there some specifics to LEDs that I may need to know. Or do these act just like incandescent bulbs with no particulars in regard to LEDs.

 

[Borntoolate]

Yes. Layout of the fixtures is what I am referring to.

 

[Bert_]

120V loads are always wired in parallel. Some low voltage stuff can be wired in series, but I don't think thats what we are talking about.

It sounds like you don't know exactly what the words series and parallel mean when used to describe electrical circuits. Maybe a there are better words to describe what you are trying to do.

 

[larry_g]

What I think you are asking about is "Can you wire 10 fixtures on one switch?"

The answer is maybe. You have to know, and tell us, what the amperage draw is on each fixture. Then you have to know the amperage rating of the switch you are using. The amp rating of the switch = the total number of fixtures ( add the amp draws together) you can have downline of that switch.

Does this get close to an answer for you?

lg
no neat sig line

 

[American Locomotive]

It sounds like you have a huge misunderstanding of how mains AC powered stuff is wired up. AC mains stuff is almost always wired up in parallel.

What you should be asking is how many fixtures can you put on a single switch/branch.

 

[MEngineer]

If I understand the situation correctly, the fixtures will not let you hook them up in series, they are always wired in parallel. ALL of your positive wires are Wirenutted together and all of your neutrals are Wirenutted also. The fixtures o my have 1 set of wires available for input, either a black and white, and sometimes a green or bare. If you wire all in parallel and a fixture craps out on you, the others will still work.

If you were to wire in series you would be hooking black to black to start with, then white to black from that point forward. 120v Electrical potential is required to drive your lights which is what you get when you wire in parallel. If you wired in series, none of the lights would see 120v potential drop and none would function properly. On top of that, your circuit wire is either 14 or 12 gauge, the pig tails for the fixture are like 16-20 gauge. Only sized to support the 1 fixture.

Hope that helps

 

[Borntoolate]

So is it obvious I never wired a full shop before? I have only done minor wiring. Adding an outlet, wiring up a well pump. Looking back all single load kinda stuff. Usually only adding one outlet because of a specific need (dedicated 220 for welding machine for example). So I am on a learning curve here since the flood and shop demo. Shop won't be up for a couple months so I have time.

So. Parallel it is. Though perhaps my wording was poor or perhaps it was such an odd question that no one ever thought to ask it. I resemble that sometimes. I think the latter is the one (odd question).

As for the switch I can figure that and don't expect that to be a problem. 42 watt LEDs, I assume that is each, two per fixture so that's 20 LEDs for ten fixtures or 840 watts divide by 110V = 7.6 amps (~50% vs 80% max) on a 15 amp switch with plenty of extra for loads that might be higher than labeled for whatever reason. 12 Gauge wire....

Yeah and as I think it through series would be a bit silly. I could do it. Cut the plugs off and daisy chain the wiring from fixture to fixture in series. I still contend I could do it. White to black as stated above from MEngineer.... And all on 16-20 Gauge wire (Once again from MEngineer) would be a bad idea and apparently is just not done. So I have now learned.

 

[Borntoolate]

And thinking this through even further "can the switch handle it" is the right question that I now have learned to ask. BUt now don't need to ask. THANKS!

I can be a little slow on the uptake but I usually get it better than most in the end. Got a long way to go on this one.

 

[davewo]

I'm still confused by your interest in trying to wire them in series. This will not work and may even damage the LED controls. Also, a 15 amp circuit with 14 ga wire is correct.

Wire them up like this:

View media item 68714

 

[larry_g]

As for the switch I can figure that and don't expect that to be a problem. 42 watt LEDs, I assume that is each, two per fixture so that's 20 LEDs for ten fixtures or 840 watts divide by 110V = 7.6 amps (~50% vs 80% max) on a 15 amp switch with plenty of extra for loads that might be higher than labeled for whatever reason. 12 Gauge wire....

Your assumption above is incorrect. Lighting wattage is not = to amperage draw. Most likely your fixtures are <1 amp each. That is why I said you need to know the amp draw of each fixture. Your math is dividing apples by oranges.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Borntoolate]

Your assumption above is incorrect. Lighting wattage is not = to amperage draw. Most likely your fixtures are <1 amp each. That is why I said you need to know the amp draw of each fixture. Your math is dividing apples by oranges.

lg
no neat sig line

ok. looks like I may need to do a bit more research or set up a test to measure the amp draw on the lights when they come in. Not sure if that varies at all with LEDs.

 

[Borntoolate]

I'm still confused by your interest in trying to wire them in series. This will not work and may even damage the LED controls. Also, a 15 amp circuit with 14 ga wire is correct.

Wire them up like this:

View media item 68714

At this point I have no interest in running in series. I simply have never wired anything like this. Knowing there are the two electrical options I just needed to understand which was correct or if there were options or limits. The more I think about it the more series makes zero sense.

 

[mike93lx]

ok. looks like I may need to do a bit more research or set up a test to measure the amp draw on the lights when they come in. Not sure if that varies at all with LEDs.

The lights should come with that information from the manufacturer

 

[DirtyJersey]

I'm still confused by your interest in trying to wire them in series. This will not work and may even damage the LED controls. Also, a 15 amp circuit with 14 ga wire is correct.

Wire them up like this:

View media item 68714

This!

You could even pig tail the wires at the lights if you wanted.

I'm still confused by your interest in trying to wire them in series. This will not work and may even damage the LED controls. Also, a 15 amp circuit with 14 ga wire is correct.

Wire them up like this:

View media item 68714

Sent from my LG-K550 using Tapatalk

 

[kbuhagiar]

Are these the lights you are installing?

https://www.costco.com/4’-Linkable-LED-Shop-Light-with-Pull-Chain,-2-pack.product.100284402.html

If so: (1) They are 42 watts TOTAL per fixture (not per tube); (2) They are sealed units, and come with plug-in pigtails and are meant to be plugged into a 120-volt outlet; (3) they can be daisy-chained (each unit has a 120-volt receptacle) and you can connect up to 5 of them together (what you may be thinking of as 'series').

PS I have a bunch of them and they work great.

Good luck and welcome to GJ!

 

[alfredeneuman]

With a 120 volt supply, 10 fixtures connected in parallel will see 120 volts each.
With a 120 volt supply. 10 fixtures connected in series will see just 12 volts each.

 

[AntonLargiader]

PS I have a bunch of them and they work great.

The pic shows a cord that's pretty short. How long is it in real life? They'd be useful for me in the basement if they had a few feet of cord on them. Also it looks (in the reviews) like some people bought them for way less than they are listed for now.

 

[Borntoolate]

Are these the lights you are installing?

https://www.costco.com/4’-Linkable-LED-Shop-Light-with-Pull-Chain,-2-pack.product.100284402.html

If so: (1) They are 42 watts TOTAL per fixture (not per tube); (2) They are sealed units, and come with plug-in pigtails and are meant to be plugged into a 120-volt outlet; (3) they can be daisy-chained (each unit has a 120-volt receptacle) and you can connect up to 5 of them together (what you may be thinking of as 'series').

PS I have a bunch of them and they work great.

Good luck and welcome to GJ!

Those are the ones kbu... ordered twenty of them. Thanks for the welcome to the forum BTW

Yeah the whole idea of hooking together seemed like a series set up. But I'm guessing the internal wiring is otherwise. And if I understand you correctly that is great news. That should greatly simplify my installation and wiring to get to each group of 4-5. Switch amp rating for 10 surely should not be an issue with the whole fixture at 42 watts, or even if it were much more.

Is the cord really that short? If so that will be a bit annoying but I should be able to work with.

 

[Showkey]

As mentioned they are not connected in series .......daisy chained is not series as it pertains to the electrical connection.

The cords are not short........recall they are close to 40". I cut the cords to 12" when I connected mine in the daisy chain.

I am waiting for them to go back on sale at $39.99 per twin pack with free shipping or in store at $19.99 per single pack.

 

[Borntoolate]

a 40" cord will be perfect! Basically I been looking at lights for 2 weeks and just needed to get something on order. This was as good a price as I can find and it's sounding like they will work out!!!

 

[larry_g]

Ok then, now that we know the fixture and the INPUT wattage is 42 then your calcs above seem to be correct, 0.35a per fixture.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Borntoolate]

Thanks Larry_g. I was feeling, yeah I am talking about my feelings, sorry... Feeling a little beat down on my very first post to this forum.

I did learn that it was an ignorant question that I asked. Not a dumb question in my opinion but an ignorant one. I support the "there are no dumb questions" approach. There are a lot of people who are afraid to or are uncomfortable to ask a question. To me that is a bigger problem. I am not afraid to be ignorant in front of others! And admit it!!!

Anyway it has all worked out well, I learned something very important and am less ignorant and am ready to keep moving forward with the shop rebuild!

I plan to wire the metal building shop myself using EMT and possibly some MC in select locations. Yeah those are some new acronyms I have been learning. (Add THHN acronym to the list ) which I have bought 500' each of Black, white, red and green 12 gauge.

Friday I assembled 20 double outlets to metal cover plates with all the wiring pre-assembled to the outlets in order to pigtail wire it all together in the boxes once the THHN and EMT are run and properly affixed. I'll prolly buy the deeper boxes. I hate stuffing wires. I was also headed in the WAGO direction but I am now not too sure about that. The red was for the fact that each outlet on the assembled two outlet covers will be on a different circuit, one on black and one on red. I hope I said that all correctly.

I have been educating myself on how to use a 1/2" Gardner No. 930 bender which came with the house and has been hanging around for 15 years. how old it actually is I have no clue. The previous owner salvaged all sorts of **** from everywhere. It is an older model that has the level bubbles but is a little sparse on the various markings for different angles. The Math and guides are escaping me so far but I'll figure that out. Just need to Eff it up a few times and re-read the guides and re-watch U tube until it sinks in.

 

[Borntoolate]

Are these the lights you are installing?

https://www.costco.com/4’-Linkable-LED-Shop-Light-with-Pull-Chain,-2-pack.product.100284402.html

If so: (1) They are 42 watts TOTAL per fixture (not per tube); (2) They are sealed units, and come with plug-in pigtails and are meant to be plugged into a 120-volt outlet; (3) they can be daisy-chained (each unit has a 120-volt receptacle) and you can connect up to 5 of them together (what you may be thinking of as 'series').

PS I have a bunch of them and they work great.

Good luck and welcome to GJ!

The pic shows a cord that's pretty short. How long is it in real life? They'd be useful for me in the basement if they had a few feet of cord on them. Also it looks (in the reviews) like some people bought them for way less than they are listed for now.

Lights just came in. The cord is 5 feet long. Cord on one end and 110v two prong outlet on the other.

 

[Borntoolate]

Just to put this to rest. And disregard my initial series vs parallel question since it was silly.

20 LEDS were installed in my 33'x33' metal building. Costco, FEIT, 4' LED shop lights. They are right at the 16' height and in 4 rows of 5. 10 cover half the shop and the other 10 the other half and on two switches. It has all worked out great with with very good lighting.

Access to hang the lights was an issue. I thought about how a ladder could work but that just seemed scary and I don't have a ladder that could get me 20'+ feet to the ceiling to attach Jack Chain to hang the lights from. I thought about a rolling scaffold and actually borrowed one that I assembled but it was a bit short and wobbly. I was gonna have to put a ladder on top of it to get final height access that I needed. Once again, scary! A buddy suggested renting a JLG and that is what I did. $300 rental but worth it from a safety, efficiency and FUN factor. I rented the roll behind type that I could pick up and return on my own. Unless you have a trailer that can carry what might be quite heavy then the pick up and drop off costs for this stuff is a killer on top of the rental cost.

These things are quite handy (JLG, Manlift...) and if you have work at height I would highly recommend renting one. House repair, window cleaning, limb trimming etc. The work goes quick and if you had friends with several jobs you could split the cost up and keep it over a weekend and use it at multiple locations. This one was all electric as well so no gas needed and the charge held quite well. I believe the rental was a towable JLG T350. Fun and COOL to use!

 

[AffableCurmudgeon]

Good! No pics?

 

[Borntoolate]

Well of course there must be pics. MY Apologies.
One is the entrance with a motion sensor light that works quite well coming and going. The others are obviously the inside...

 

[Borntoolate]

And while I am learning to do pics again I might as well include a couple projects completed since the shop was rebuilt.https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=844605&d=1545955453

Andrea wanted me to build shelves in the living room to hold all of these DVDs. THankfully I talked her out of it and this is in the computer room I am sitting in. Well lit and an available wall space to use for searching for a movie.

The living room shelves came later and look like this. Not sure the pic and text format are gonna work the way I want...