Hot/ground reverse

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Hey guys. I just replaced two outlets in my garage that were busted and said hot / ground reverse before replacement. They were original to the house and worked before they broke. Now my tester says hot/ ground reverse after replacement in both outlets (they're both connected). The wires are on properly and they ground is attached. What are some causes?

 

[AffableCurmudgeon]

you may have an open neutral.

 

[klassenl]

Post a picture

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Post a picture

There's nothing wrong at either outlet wire wise. My outlet tester is what told me the issue.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

you may have an open neutral.

I somewhat figured it was a hidden wire issue. How do I go about finding that or diagnosing to confirm that?

 

[Erampu]

Try a different tester, just to make sure the tester is okay.

 

[larry_g]

The two are probably daisy chained from an outlet up stream, and the wires could be crossed in the previous upstream box. I would suggest that you check each plug on that breaker/circuit. Just work yourself down the line.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

The two are probably daisy chained from an outlet up stream, and the wires could be crossed in the previous upstream box. I would suggest that you check each plug on that breaker/circuit. Just work yourself down the line.

lg
no neat sig line

How would it have worked fine previous though?

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Try a different tester, just to make sure the tester is okay.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

Are you sure it doesn't say hot/neutral reversed?

 

[larry_g]

How would it have worked fine previous though?

It's AC, your devise under power doesn't care which is which. Your tester will identify it though.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Are you sure it doesn't say hot/neutral reversed?

I have a Klein tester, it was red/ orange which identified as hot/ ground reverse.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Try a different tester, just to make sure the tester is okay.

Tried with one with a gfi test feature, same thing.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

I was just thinking. There was a medicine cabinet removed on the same circuit, I threw some wire nuts over the wires and nothing has been put on those wires since. I can't remember if the issue could have started around then? But then why do other outlets on that breaker work? Just throwing out ideas.

 

[prostreetamx]

Those simple testers are very prone to false signals if there is anything plugged in on the entire circuit. You need to make sure there are no loads plugged in as the ground or neutral will backfeed through a light bulb and read as something else. Remember a light bulb is just a resistor and will give false readings to those cheapo testers. Even an expensive meter will read the power passing through a load.

 

[larry_g]

I was just thinking. There was a medicine cabinet removed on the same circuit, I threw some wire nuts over the wires and nothing has been put on those wires since. I can't remember if the issue could have started around then? But then why do other outlets on that breaker work? Just throwing out ideas.

Lets say that you have 7 outlets on the circuit. The first 4 are just fine Box 5 where you removed the fixture and put the wire nuts on you crossed the wires. Then boxes 6&7 are going to test crossed, and the first 4 are testing OK because they are before the cross.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Dirtydan69]

As others have said verify with another tester. If still the same reading then start at the end and work back.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Lets say that you have 7 outlets on the circuit. The first 4 are just fine Box 5 where you removed the fixture and put the wire nuts on you crossed the wires. Then boxes 6&7 are going to test crossed, and the first 4 are testing OK because they are before the cross.

lg
no neat sig line

They would be open, none of them are touching. Unless I mistook what you wrote.

 

[larry_g]

They would be open, none of them are touching. Unless I mistook what you wrote.

Or if I assumed that you wire nutted the wires together so make that a junction box. How does the power pass through that box to get to the next? You are using pigtails in the box and just capped the pig tail without messing with the passthrough wires?

lg
no neat sig line

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

I found another outlet in a different room with the same result, unplugged the power strip from it and all 3 outlets I've found with issues all now read open neutral. I've replaced all 3 with the same issue. On to check more.

 

[American Locomotive]

Get a multimeter and check the voltage between hot/neutral, neutral and ground, and hot and ground.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

I get 103v across neutral and hot. 8v across hot and ground and 0 across neutral and ground. In all 3 outlets. I checked them all and these 3 are the only ones with issues

 

[AntonLargiader]

Sounds sort of like a broken wire. Those readings don't reconcile. I would plug a load (like a 2-prong lamp) into one side of the recep while you check the voltage.

 

[American Locomotive]

I get 103v across neutral and hot. 8v across hot and ground and 0 across neutral and ground. In all 3 outlets. I checked them all and these 3 are the only ones with issues

103 Volts is way too low unless you live in Japan (possibly a problem with your neutral?) 8v between hot and ground indicates you have a broken/disconnected ground.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Oh boy. Well, I can verify all the wires are properly connected at the outlets. You guys have been a ton of help but if I can ask one more question, how do I go about finding where this issue is? The two outlets I replaced in the garage yesterday are about 4 feet apart with dry wall over the wiring. The third outlet goes across under a staircase. I can see were the nm is ran, it lays across a wall. I didn't see any damage nor has anything changed in the house. The house isn't mine but my ladies moms. She just moved in. From what she said the outlet worked but I'm wondering if it ever did. She's been here about a month. I'm also betting the electric heat which "never" worked according to the previous owner is attached to this issue, but maybe not causing it?

 

[Junkman]

You might want to get a competent electrician to check out the home. Age of the home will also factor into this equation, since if the home is quite old, there is no amount of guessing that will be of value in figuring out this issue. Old wiring can and will cause you lots of problems. You need experienced eyes on it to know that everything is safe. Also, is there a circuit breaker panel, or is it a glass fuse type of panel with "tootsie roll" fused disconnects?

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Breaker panel, 150 amp service.

 

[TractorJeff]

I guess I work start at the Panel to validate the correct Neutral/Ground, then go outside to validate the Ground connection. If all is well, trace the wire in question back to the breaker box? Then go forward testing it. You may find a wire staple penetrating the cable?? Remember, this sounds like a LOT of Trouble BUT you may prevent a house fire!

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

Yes, I'm going to give it one last go and if I can't figure it out in reasonable time I will call someone. I feel like it's something so simple. Outlet furthest down the line reads H to N 97v. N to G 11v. H to g 119v. Next one up reads 96v H to N. H to G 119 and N to G 10.5. The on before that reads H to N 95v. H to G 119v and N to G 11v.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

I got it... it was a gfi UPSTAIRS on another circuit that was the issue. How the he'll is that possible?

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

False hope. Tester read fine, plugged in Chevy volt charger, it worked for 10 seconds, back to open neutral...

 

[American Locomotive]

Forget the tester, and use your DMM.

Neutral to Hot: ~120v
Neutral to Ground: ~120v
Neutral to Ground: ~0v +/- a few volts depending on how heavy of a load you have on the circuit.

Notice that all your outlets with low Hot - Neutral voltage have a correct Hot to Ground, but a high Ground to Neutral? This indicates to me that you have a bad connection on your neutral line somewhere.

The last thing you played with was the medicine cabinet - well it must have a junction somewhere to tie into the circuit. I'd start there.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

The gfi was on circuit 18. The medicine cabinet was in laundry room circuit 15. The garage/ playroom problem outlets are on 12. I'll add an outlet to the exposed wires where the medicine cabinet was and see what happens

 

[FrankTheTank88]

Last time I have had one of these readings, the neutral wire on the AFCI breaker was off the buss bar and not connected. It was the weirdest thing because all the outlets in the circuit were hooked up correctly, all j-boxes were right. Had me chashing my tail for a few hours on a house I wired. I will always remember that now

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

No difference in outlets with the medicine cabinets wired to an outlet. On to the next one lol

 

[American Locomotive]

If you're getting weird readings on multiple circuits, you need to be checking the voltages at the panel/disconnect itself.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

The panel "looked" fine but there's too much crammed in there for me to feel comfortable poking around.

 

[American Locomotive]

The two big lugs up top are your hots, and your neutral bar is on the left there. Measure between each hot, and hot to the neutral bus.

But if you don't feel comfortable doing that, you should call an electrician.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

So main in to each neutral? And each hot at the breaker to neutral? I'll habe to bring my meter next time I come, the one here has short leads and doesn't inspire confidence beyond an outlet check or continuity.

 

[Muzzy]

Any illuminated light switches or dimmer switches on these circuits?