General Electric code Question on # of Wires

[Jawgarage]

I have a general question regarding the running of 14/2 and/or 12/2 NM cable in an unfinished basement. While running wires out to the garage I noticed a large number of existing wires "bundled" together with those plastic wire ties and running along the sill plate at the top of the foundation. In some places there are as many as 10 wires bundled together as they make their home run back to the main panel. (there are also typical wire staples keeping things in place) The house itself was built back in the early '70's with all aluminum wiring which was then abandoned back in the 90's when the whole house was rewired with NM copper 14/2 or 12/2, etc.

Is there a code that stipulates how many wires can be bundled together like this? I see what was done during the re-wire.....all the long runs were placed along the sills in the basement and then run vertically where they had to go to the first or second floor. In one place there are also about 15 wires running up from the basement through the sill into one of the first floor, and second floor walls between the 16"oc studs and up into the attic where they then follow the attic wooden protective "floor chases" and then drop down into the walls where the old wires were.

Again, is there, would there be, a code issue upon inspection at the time of sale with these wires bundled together this way????

 

[klassenl]

In my understanding of the CEC there is no limit to bundling. However the more wires you have in contact with each other the less amps each wire can carry. I haven't read that on in a while so I'm a little rusty on that.

In reality I have never seen a problem where wires were bundled. Others may have.

 

[sberry]

Basically only 3 cables together more than a couple feet. This is a real generalization though.

 

[pattenp]

NEC 334.80 only restricts NM for bundling through bored holes where sealed with caulk or bundled in insulation. Just do a google search for NEC 334.80

Edit: I'll add because I forgot NEC 310.15(B)(3) is where sberry is talking and if bundled for more than 24" derating comes into play.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

In my understanding of the CEC there is no limit to bundling. However the more wires you have in contact with each other the less amps each wire can carry. I haven't read that on in a while so I'm a little rusty on that.

In reality I have never seen a problem where wires were bundled. Others may have.

OP is in USA NOT Canada so CEC doesnt apply...

 

[lakeroadster]

I created this a while back after asking a similar questions as the OP..

 

[SARG]

Just an observation .... We had a serious flood in 2011 & all the valley homes had to be rewired. An Electrical Engineer bundled all his romex the length of his home. Sometimes 3 to 4" diameter bundles. The neatest job of any I saw.

 

[sberry]

An inspection would make them unbundle.

 

[sberry]

As Patten eluded to, the 3 cable is a generalization, it's one of those things that if a homebody follows the general rule its hard to go wrong and in a home there is usually room to make this easy enough. I just did one or 2 in pipe and used multiwire to keep it legal and avoid any rating issues although the basic circuit design was a inherent limiting factor due to the amount of available outlets.

 

[AntonLargiader]

. An Electrical Engineer bundled all his romex the length of his home. Sometimes 3 to 4" diameter bundles. The neatest job of any I saw.

Mechanical Engineers are not necessarily good mechanics, and Electrical Engineers are not necessarily good electricians. Different skill sets.

 

[lakeroadster]

Any way to see when the bundling rules of NEC table 310.15(B)(2)(a) and NEC 310.15(B)(3) became a requirement?