pex manifold question

[Kaizen]

So I bought this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N6IGA1F/?tag=atomicindus08-20
to replace my homemade one and add some control.
of course not any directions. only question is for the flow control and flow gauge on each loop (plastic cap things).....putting them upside down should not affect them right? my pex comes from the ceiling so I want it upside down not as they have it. everything else can be turned so air scoop will work. just wondering if gravity will have any impact on flow control gauge display.....guessing no?

 

[Garage Dog]

Kaizen - I do not have the same brand of manifolds you intend to use, but I have mine oriented both ways as I have some PEX coming out of the floor and some PEX dropping down from the ceiling - no difference in how flow control works. You should be fine.

If you have concerns or questions, I would see if the manufacturer has a technical support line.

Good Luck,

GD

 

[forAK]

I have the exact ones in a 8 loop scenario. Yes - you can but why would you? You can swap the ends. Takes a couple of minutes and keeps it upright.

Also, when you do get it hooked up, the supply gauges also adjust flow. You will have to pop the red caps up so you can turn the gauge. It's best to open the supply ones all the way and then just do your adjusting from the return knobs.

Another thing, I did not install the pressure gauges that comes with it. I was looking for temp gauges but couldn't find any to put in it's place cheaply so I opted for this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0087VJTDS/?tag=atomicindus08-20 This was so I could see what my return was coming back in at. It just clamps on the return 1" copper.

 

[Kaizen]

Kaizen - I do not have the same brand of manifolds you intend to use, but I have mine oriented both ways as I have some PEX coming out of the floor and some PEX dropping down from the ceiling - no difference in how flow control works. You should be fine.

If you have concerns or questions, I would see if the manufacturer has a technical support line.

Good Luck,

GD

thanks......couldn't find any number easily so I turned to gj. thanks

 

[Kaizen]

I have the exact ones in a 8 loop scenario. Yes - you can but why would you? You can swap the ends. Takes a couple of minutes and keeps it upright.

Also, when you do get it hooked up, the supply gauges also adjust flow. You will have to pop the red caps up so you can turn the gauge. It's best to open the supply ones all the way and then just do your adjusting from the return knobs.

Another thing, I did not install the pressure gauges that comes with it. I was looking for temp gauges but couldn't find any to put in it's place cheaply so I opted for this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0087VJTDS/?tag=atomicindus08-20 This was so I could see what my return was coming back in at. It just clamps on the return 1" copper.

i'm not flipping because of the ends. i'm flipping because my supply and return comes from the ceiling. so I have to. glad you said something though. I thought those were temp gauges. temp is far more important on these short runs imo then pressure. esp if I put a mixing valve in. guess i'll be buying some like you listed

 

[TurnipTruck]

what I have read about these manifolds says do not run the electric actuators down merely so any water leaks do not collect and short out. If the flow indicators are spring loaded and not purely gravity, then mount it upside down as needed.

 

[Kaizen]

what I have read about these manifolds says do not run the electric actuators down merely so any water leaks do not collect and short out. If the flow indicators are spring loaded and not purely gravity, then mount it upside down as needed.

funny I just read that and it didn't make sense. now I understand. but besides putting 90's on the tubing I think i'd have to chance it......or put the manifolds sideways.

follow up question to all.......I have concrete and wood floors. Reading I should have two different temps. So before this manifold I have a mixing valve taking the boiler of 170 down to say 140 into the manifold. am I able to reduce the heat by reducing the flow? so the concrete would have 140 for the first say 50 feet of the slab but through heat loss the rest of the slab would be lower like 110? less flow more heat loss before it comes back right? I don't really want to do two manifolds

 

[forAK]

Are you using the electric actuators?

 

[yeldogt]

Some of the gauges may fill with water .. also, the actuators don't like to get wet and the control valves tend to drip occasionally.

They look like Wirsbo knockoffs -- Wirsbo's were made in Italy. I'm assuming the flow is controlled with the red dial on the return?

With correct flow the water temp would be about 20 degrees drop max across the manifold. The flow control is to balance the zones -- ideally you want all the loops as equal as possible -- not always possible. The flow control is for flow balance.

Do you have baseboard or some other high heat convector? The proper way to run radiant is to control the boiler to the hottest surface giving off heat. Baseboard or panel radiators would be maxing out in the 160 range. Concrete would be much less. It depends on the heat loss and how tight the loops .. Concrete or tile floors can take more heat vs wood -- but they have a limit -- as too hot is uncomfortable. Wood floors use lower temp still -- as the wood can't take the heat .. need good insulation with wood radiant.

The proper way is to have a manifold for each temp -- with proper flow to maintain temps throughout the loops.

The boiler can be setup with outdoor resent to handle (vary) the high temp depending on outside conditions.

Have used Tstats and floor temp stat to control the pumps or zones depending on what are the needs in individual rooms. A very small zone can use a preset mixing valve -- with a Tstat on a pump - they don't work as well.

Is this a house -- NE gets cold ....

 

[forAK]

The proper way is to have a manifold for each temp -- with proper flow to maintain temps throughout the loops.

Absolutely correct. But if he's using the electronic actuators, he could use just one manifold.

If using the one manifold and slowing down flow in certain loops/rooms, there would be no temperature control at all since the whole manifold would be running off of one t-stat in a separate area heating what sounds like separate substrates also.

 

[yeldogt]

Absolutely correct. But if he's using the electronic actuators, he could use just one manifold.

If using the one manifold and slowing down flow in certain loops/rooms, there would be no temperature control at all since the whole manifold would be running off of one t-stat in a separate area heating what sounds like separate substrates also.

Unless the water to the wood floors is too hot -- he would need something .. like a floor stat to monitor the temps .. the zone valves don't move all that quickly.

I added an addition about 10 years ago -- foamed 14 x 21 room on a slab -- using warmboard on top of rigid foam and wood floor above. It's two loops -- I have a simple thermo balance valve set to around 110 - the Tstat in the room controls the pump to feed the two zones. I need to raise it a bit when it gets really cold.

 

[UpstateNY]

So I bought this https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01N6IGA1F/?tag=atomicindus08-20
to replace my homemade one and add some control.
of course not any directions. only question is for the flow control and flow gauge on each loop (plastic cap things).....putting them upside down should not affect them right? my pex comes from the ceiling so I want it upside down not as they have it. everything else can be turned so air scoop will work. just wondering if gravity will have any impact on flow control gauge display.....guessing no?

I use the exact same one. The 2 integrated Spirovents (aka automatic air purge valves) don't work worth a damn, make sure you add a separate high-quality Spirovent to your system if you don't want air within the system.

 

[Kaizen]

Yes my boiler has four zones presently. 3 zone controls to two baseboard zones and one to the hot water tank. the fourth zone loops out to my homemade manifold which has two pex installations. both of these are under wood floors so I just keep it at 120 using a tempering valve. with this redo I want to add a room I have pex in a concrete floor. I was going to zone each of these pex installs using the actuators like this one
http://www.pexuniverse.com/ssm101-24v-manifold-actuator.
But then I remembered the temp difference problem and want a solution without buying another manifold. so having the zone valve and water at say 140 and closing the flow some to one zone i'm thinking will reduce the temp on most of the run to 120 or lower because the heat will dissipate faster at the beginning and slower as it approaches target temp of the slab.
yea two manifolds would be great and easy but I won't have more then one loop that needs the lower temp.

 

[Kaizen]

I use the exact same one. The 2 integrated Spirovents (aka automatic air purge valves) don't work worth a damn, make sure you add a separate high-quality Spirovent to your system if you don't want air within the system.

thanks will do.

 

[Kaizen]

Is this a house -- NE gets cold ....

i'm moderate at 30s...not many days at zero. just finished snow blowing two feet. yes for my house. lol garage is half built with no roof and two feet of snow in it and no warm weather in sight

 

[75gmck25]

I bought very similar manifolds from one of the online suppliers (PEX supply, maybe?) and installed them upside down in my basement because all the pex runs go up. I have not had any issues from the upside down installation.

One "feature" that surprised me is that the manual white valves will not completely turn off the flow to that zone/radiator. I had one radiator with a cracked valve and assumed I could turn off the water at the manifold, but it still trickled a little water to that radiator when I closed the white valve. I had to remove the PEX from the manifold and install a cap on the manifold to completely stop the flow.

Bruce

 

[Garage Dog]

Kaizen - I have my boiler feeding 1/2" PEX in/under three different sub-straights (different types of flooring) and an indirect fired boiler being fed by a modulating boiler.

Basically the three substrates are 3/4" hardwood over sandwich construction, 3/4" backer board/tile all thin set together and finally 4" slab.

I initially thought I would need tempering/mixing valves to give me 3 temps for the 3 different substrates. As it turned out I feed it all the floors with 120* output from the boiler. My approach was to find the boiler temp that kept my hardwood surface temp under 85* and see how everything else worked with that boiler output temp, working just fine for me.

My floors are quarter sawn and rift sawn white oak which is quite stable. With the 120* the surface of my hardwood maxes out around 80* (many say you shouldn't go over 85* surface temp if possible).

The slab in the LL and garage is certainly less responsive than it would be with a higher boiler output, but in my case, the stats in the slab just calls for heat a little longer with the 120* boiler output.

I was also concerned about over heating hardwood - I used a Tekmar 519 stats with a 079 slab sensor - thus if for any reason the flooring gets above the max temp I set it will shut down heat going to that loop (never has just a safety feature of sorts).

Obviously there are lots of variables in how systems are designed and installed - YMMV.

Good Luck,

GD

 

[Kaizen]

I bought very similar manifolds from one of the online suppliers (PEX supply, maybe?) and installed them upside down in my basement because all the pex runs go up. I have not had any issues from the upside down installation.

One "feature" that surprised me is that the manual white valves will not completely turn off the flow to that zone/radiator. I had one radiator with a cracked valve and assumed I could turn off the water at the manifold, but it still trickled a little water to that radiator when I closed the white valve. I had to remove the PEX from the manifold and install a cap on the manifold to completely stop the flow.

Bruce

bruce are you using zone valves that go over the manual valves? from this discussion that seems to be the only drawback if I use those valves. they are waaayyyy cheaper then doing normal zone valves

 

[Kaizen]

Kaizen - I have my boiler feeding 1/2" PEX in/under three different sub-straights (different types of flooring) and an indirect fired boiler being fed by a modulating boiler.

Basically the three substrates are 3/4" hardwood over sandwich construction, 3/4" backer board/tile all thin set together and finally 4" slab.

I initially thought I would need tempering/mixing valves to give me 3 temps for the 3 different substrates. As it turned out I feed it all the floors with 120* output from the boiler. My approach was to find the boiler temp that kept my hardwood surface temp under 85* and see how everything else worked with that boiler output temp, working just fine for me.

My floors are quarter sawn and rift sawn white oak which is quite stable. With the 120* the surface of my hardwood maxes out around 80* (many say you shouldn't go over 85* surface temp if possible).

The slab in the LL and garage is certainly less responsive than it would be with a higher boiler output, but in my case, the stats in the slab just calls for heat a little longer with the 120* boiler output.

I was also concerned about over heating hardwood - I used a Tekmar 519 stats with a 079 slab sensor - thus if for any reason the flooring gets above the max temp I set it will shut down heat going to that loop (never has just a safety feature of sorts).

Obviously there are lots of variables in how systems are designed and installed - YMMV.

Good Luck,

GD

Thanks for your references. so much stuff out there its overwhelming. ya'll would laugh at the home made monstrosity that I am currently using. looking at all the copper and shutoffs it has to be 200 bucks of stuff. its worked and if my old pine is still in one piece I think i'll be ok esp with added control and temperature monitor.