VISE REPAIR 101 all vise repairs, lubricants, sources for parts and the tricks to fix

[Carla]

DIF,

This is the bolt that someone put in. I'm most sure it's not OEM, and it has a ltitle tube shim. The threads appear perfectly centered and are beautifully tapped. Maybe it had an original pin and someone tapped the hole and added this later.
I plan to find a nice vintage bolt and keep this setup.
Shawn

Shawn,

If you care to, you can make that modern grade 8 bolt look 'vintage', ever so easily.....actually easier than the time spent looking for an old bolt. Its simple, just file/sand off the markings on the head, wire-wheel off the thin plating, and allow the 'bright steel' bolt to develop 'patina' naturally over time.....or use some 'instant gun blue' to black the head.

cheers

Carla

 

[jazzfiddle]

Jazz: you are not expected to fix the Reed 202.5 like new or even fix it at all, but i'm guessing you are liking the answers you are getting in case you want to. yes? again welcome to the Forum and at Garage Journal we like our vises, old tools and other members that participate.

Yes, your guess is correct. I have been using the vise since my grandfather died, just clamping it to a workbench top. The other day I decided it was time to mount it properly and to see if I could get it to swivel, so I partially disassembled it. I googled the make and model and that led me here. I love old tools, old stuff in general and I'm fascinated to see all the old vises and other tools on this forum. Looks like a good group of people. Many thanks!

Carla: That is great information, thanks. Good ideas. I'm not sure how far I'll go with this vise, but I don't have to be in a hurry to decide. I have some options I can use while I think about this. I do have a friend who has machine tools who could probably fab a block if I took a mold like you suggested. Regarding the date of manufacture: This person:
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-antique-reed-202-2-swivel-1803082128
seems to think that the 1908 date indicates that the vise would have been built prior to 1912. 1920s or 30s makes sense too, though. My grandfather was born in 1899, could have bought it new as an adult.

DFB: Good point about using a bolt. If I use one with a big enough head it might be enough surface area. Mine appears to have the original nut - it's 3/8 x 16.

Thanks to all!

 

[ALLFAST]

Carla,
That's a darn fine tip. Head over to my update on the drill press...I picked it up 40 minutes ago.

Thanks again
Shawn

 

[drivesitfar]

Jazz: best of luck with your search for parts and a fix for your grand dad's old vise.

AF: when you have time maybe set up a couple posts for your 577 with before in one and after in another post or two if you have lots of pictures. for a good example of before and after pictures look at McBrownie's posts on #117-124. if you have lots of pictures reserve a few extra posts and if you are not sure how to do it email me or just ask. if you type in RESERVED and wait 30 seconds in between each post you can get a few posts in a row to edit with words and pictures later. good luck

Carla: thanks for the tips on blasting and hopefully before too long i'll buy either the http://www.aboytesmfg.com/about_us.html which is the one you use and recommend or the Skat Blast http://www.skatblast.com/ that i have had on my wish list along with a nice compressor for a while now. also the owner of Skat blast (or the company's founder and maybe now chairman of the board since he passed on day to day activities to his son) is a GJ member.

if you get a chance can you tell me if both are equally good choices or maybe the pros and cons since a lot of members and non members reading this thread do either blasting or electrolysis to clean up their old vises and tools?

thanks again and hope you are as healthy as your posts are educational.

cheers

 

[vintage nut]

I just have a harbor freight sort of benchtop blast cabinet. I usually use glass beads, but I keep crushed glass around for tough work. I'd love a cabinet like one of those if I had the space. Anything above a 4-5" vise won't fit in mine

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[ALLFAST]

DIF,
I'm a ways away from after photos ! I'm going great guns on building a new work bench and freeing up my sliding jaw and pin in my Hollands.

I'll have some updates on freeing the old base soon though.

 

[thehorse13]

Howdy fellas.

I'm not a Wilton vise expert but I can tell by looking at this one that it's an early model.

Does anyone know what model/vintage of this Wilton bullet? The jaws are 4inches wide if that helps out any.

As you can see, the jaw ledge on the body has been busted clean off. I'm going to try to find myself a body on FleaBay or anywhere else I can turn one up. Of course I need to know what I have first though.

Thanks!

 

[thehorse13]

One more close up pic.

 

[drivesitfar]

TH: i'm guessing you just have a 4.5 inch Wilton bullet maybe a 450 model (not sure on model #'s) and probably late 60's and maybe early 70's model and rode hard and put away wet.

pristine it might sell for a couple benji's so worth some effort or a good parts vise and just with the parts maybe worth a few bucks selling off the pieces (swivel base, lock nuts, dynamic if ok, main screw, vise nut, rear cap and i think that's it. or like you say find a good static and make a decent vise.

good luck

 

[vintage nut]

A mill and a welder combined with a good machinist with too much free time could probably fix that static. That said finding a replacement or parting it out and buying a good one is probably your best bet

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[dragoneggs]

And when you do, post pics or it didn't happen. [emoji4]



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Pardon me if you saw this post on my specific thread on jaws but thought I better close the loop here.

Well it finally happened... Here is my restored Rock Island #594 vise... I used Rustoleum Hammered Rosemary spray paint. Pretty happy on how it turned out. I had one of my guys at my work make a set of jaws. He went above and beyond the call with the knurling and he also sent it out for heat treat with our production work! I think I owe him big time!

 

[kwoswalt99]

Pardon me if you saw this post on my specific thread on jaws but thought I better close the loop here.

Well it finally happened... Here is my restored Rock Island #594 vise... I used Rustoleum Hammered Rosemary spray paint. Pretty happy on how it turned out. I had one of my guys at my work make a set of jaws. He went above and beyond the call with the knurling and he also sent it out for heat treat with our production work! I think I owe him big time!

Has the slide been brazed?

 

[smokeyburb]

Thanks. Turned out very nice.

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[dragoneggs]

Has the slide been brazed?

Yes I believe so... I discovered the gold brazing when I sandblasted it black paint. Was a little surprised but since it was a freebie from a garage sale that I got 30 years ago I'm not complaining. Works great!

 

[Shiftless]

DIF,

This is the bolt that someone put in. I'm most sure it's not OEM, and it has a ltitle tube shim. The threads appear perfectly centered and are beautifully tapped. Maybe it had an original pin and someone tapped the hole and added this later.

I plan to find a nice vintage bolt and keep this setup.


Shawn

Here is a pic of my Hollands 43 1/2 with the original pin in place. It is certainly not threaded. Just a nicely fitting tapered pin.
BTW, it has all the signs of being still in its original paint. All I did after bringing it home was a thorough scrubbing with diluted Simple Green, a heat gun blow dry and one thin coat of boiled linseed oil. ( Oh yeah...file off the burrs from the pin and clean it up with some fine sandpaper)

 

[ALLFAST]

DragonEggs,

I am duly impressed! How many coats of Rosemary did you do as I've seen varying degrees of color depth. My 577 is very nicely brass/bronze welded in the same places. It looks very well done. Your jaws are super.

Shiftless,

That is a good looking vise. How did you acquire it, and since you've been into vices, how many have you seen of the 44 1/2 model. Thanks for he taper pin report...I didn't want to strip it if threaded !


Thanks for posting!

 

[ALLFAST]

I meant to say the 43 1/2 model for Shiftless

 

[Shiftless]

Thanks Allfast
Believe it or not, I picked that one up via eBay. Auctions on that site often get way too high for cheap guys like me, but this one wasn't advertised as having the swivelling back jaw feature. Once you hang around this site, you recognize the locking pin sticking up in back as the sign of a swivel jaw. Fortunately, I live close enough to the seller so I could do a pick up and avoid shipping charges.

I have never seen another Hollands vise around here in the S.F. Bay Area. I attend estate sales, garage sales and machinery auctions as well as keeping my eye on Craigslist.

Good luck with your stuck pin. I recently freed up one on my monster Reed 406. It was an epic battle described in detail on previous pages. Thanks again to Carla and jziggy for ideas and physical help. Not to mention many others for written encouragement. When I get home from my travels I plan to assemble it and put it up for sale.

 

[ALLFAST]

Shiftless,
Well over a year ago I thought, I néed a cool old vise. Something a little larger than what I was accustomed to. Off to CL I went, and this was buried at the bottom of the Sacramento ads.

I hadn't learned what I know now, and I paid $120 (he was asking 110 as I recall). I think it's well bought as aside from the stuck jaw (it'll be free soon) and ugly paint, this thing is nearly perfect mechanically.

I have seen a few med sized Hollands lately, but no swivels, and they had flaws. I lucked out !

 

[ALLFAST]

The CL ad photo. The handle has an extrememly minor little bend...very subtle just near one end.

 

[Shiftless]

My winning bid was $90
No stuck jaw or pin. Straight handle. Original paint. I too consider mine "well bought"

 

[ALLFAST]

Yours was awesomly bought !

 

[G-ManBart]

Howdy fellas.

I'm not a Wilton vise expert but I can tell by looking at this one that it's an early model.

Does anyone know what model/vintage of this Wilton bullet? The jaws are 4inches wide if that helps out any.

As you can see, the jaw ledge on the body has been busted clean off. I'm going to try to find myself a body on FleaBay or anywhere else I can turn one up. Of course I need to know what I have first though.

Thanks!

Run away!

First off, that vise isn't really very early at all. It's a Schiller Park model, so it was cast after the move to Schiller Park in 1957. I have had a couple of the same model, and going off memory, that model is probably even a few years newer than that...so 1960 or later.

Generally speaking, welding/brazing a new ledge on is a waste of time...and it would be a difficult job for most folks....welding steel to ductile iron is what they would be doing. It won't be very strong, and won't offer any significant amount of support to the jaws.

Further, that vise has bigger issues. Notice how the static jaw is leaning forward? Look at the vertical line where the back of the jaws meet the static...it's not vertical like the dynamic jaw is. The two jaw inserts appear to have about the same amount of wear, but the tops are nowhere near even with one another....bad sign.

Unfortunately, that's a parts vise...but it does have some good parts. That same model, in solid condition will be $200 to $250 on eBay at the top end, and about $100 more if totally restored.

 

[Shiftless]

thehorse13:

to what the g-man is saying.

Part it out and look for a better one to start with. $50 absolute tops for that busted one. (I'll take the base and lockdowns)

 

[thehorse13]

Run away!

First off, that vise isn't really very early at all. It's a Schiller Park model, so it was cast after the move to Schiller Park in 1957. I have had a couple of the same model, and going off memory, that model is probably even a few years newer than that...so 1960 or later.

Generally speaking, welding/brazing a new ledge on is a waste of time...and it would be a difficult job for most folks....welding steel to ductile iron is what they would be doing. It won't be very strong, and won't offer any significant amount of support to the jaws.

Further, that vise has bigger issues. Notice how the static jaw is leaning forward? Look at the vertical line where the back of the jaws meet the static...it's not vertical like the dynamic jaw is. The two jaw inserts appear to have about the same amount of wear, but the tops are nowhere near even with one another....bad sign.

Unfortunately, that's a parts vise...but it does have some good parts. That same model, in solid condition will be $200 to $250 on eBay at the top end, and about $100 more if totally restored.

Yea, I already looked at the date code underneath the dynamic jaw. It was made in January of 1960.

I got it for free so I'm not out anything. I figure that if I can find a body somewhere for cheap, it would be worth swapping over the rest of the parts. I've inspected the vise and other than the battered body, everything else is perfectly serviceable.

After drilling, tapping and helicoiling the vise body, the jaw alignment issue went away. The jaw was hanging because of the awful bush fix that was done. Now the jaws align perfectly.

Anyone have a 101028 body with a 4 inch jaw laying around?

In the mean time, since it's already roached, it will make a perfect welding table vise.

 

[kwoswalt99]

Generally speaking, welding/brazing a new ledge on is a waste of time...and it would be a difficult job for most folks....welding steel to ductile iron is what they would be doing. It won't be very strong, and won't offer any significant amount of support to the jaws.

Why do you keep saying ductile iron? They're not made of ductile iron!

 

[vintage nut]

Why do you keep saying ductile iron? They're not made of ductile iron!

They are made of ductile iron. Right off Wilton's website.
Most machinist vises are ductile or nodular iron. Cheap vises are generally grey iron. Morgan and Prentiss were grey iron but good vises. They are exceptions not the norm

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[meatsis]

Why do you keep saying ductile iron? They're not made of ductile iron!

So then what are they made of?

 

[va.grouseman]

Vintage is right.---That's the reason that Prentiss's slides are a lot of the time cracked.---It's easier to crack wood than it is taffy, and that is basically the comparison.

 

[vintage nut]

Same issue with Morgans. My 160 had a crack in the rear jaw tower. It definitely had a hard life though...

I'd say casting quality is more important than design in a lot of ways. The record on my welding table has taken a bfh more than a few times. That vise sees plenty of abuse and doesn't seem to care. I don't like records much, but they are a dime a dozen here and great for welding tables

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[G-ManBart]

Why do you keep saying ductile iron? They're not made of ductile iron!

I keep saying they're made of ductile iron because that's what they're made of.

 

[kwoswalt99]

They are made of ductile iron. Right off Wilton's website.
Most machinist vises are ductile or nodular iron. Cheap vises are generally grey iron. Morgan and Prentiss were grey iron but good vises. They are exceptions not the norm

Almost all manufacturers' vises were grey cast iron back then.

So then what are they made of?

Schiller Park models and earlier were grey cast iron except for the hydraulic vises.

 

[Outlawmws]

Would you care you provide proof, instead of sweeping statements "on authority?"

 

[Ralph S.]

Hi!
I'm restoring an old 100mm (4 inch) vise. It's not some high quality FPU grade vise, but in good shape overall. It slides quite smooth, however the jaws are in terrible condition and need to be replaced. The problem is that they were attached by some sort of pins, and the holes appear to be drilled randomly - offset and not in line. I've initially planned to fit ready made replacement jaws (for example from Bison, since I live in Poland) but the holes would overlap. Welding in cast iron is usually a bad idea, so I'm basically left with 2 options:
A: Hammer the pins back in (they sit very tight), grind them flush and drill (& tap) new holes with a bit of overlap to fit standard Bison jaws. Terrible solution, but might work.
B: Find a machine shop that would make new custom jaws with holes placed somewhere between old ones. It would probably cost as much as a basic new 100mm Bison.
What would You suggest? Any other ideas?

 

[vintage nut]

If it was me I'd clean everything thoroughly, tap the holes, and loctite bolts in place. Grid the heads flush, then drill and tap for the new jaws.
I've done it numerous times on other projects, and it works well

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[kwoswalt99]

Would you care you provide proof, instead of sweeping statements "on authority?"

Sure thing! Which statement, the first or the second?

 

[sparklemotion]

I keep saying they're made of ductile iron because that's what they're made of.

Almost all manufacturers' vises were grey cast iron back then.

Schiller Park models and earlier were grey cast iron except for the hydraulic vises.

Would you care you provide proof, instead of sweeping statements "on authority?"

I'll admit to be taking a bit of a risk, what with weighting in on the strength of my google-fu, but I assume the present dispute has something to do with the fact that ductile iron was invented in 1943? (wikipedia link, but the date on the patent checks out)

So some of this depends on your definition of "back then." The "Prentiss" brand name for vise's was discontinued sometime in the 50s. Maybe they paid the patent license fees to Inco for a decade or so, so that later Prentisses (Prentii?) were ductile iron, but it's still a reasonable assumption that most Prentisses are grey iron.

This Wilton catalog from 1974 that advertises the New Wilton Machinists Vises as featuring a "ductile alloy." (hat tip Sonoros).

So... my guess would be pre-70s Wiltons are probably all grey iron, 70s or later machinist vises are probably ductile iron.

 

[kwoswalt99]

I'll admit to be taking a bit of a risk, what with weighting in on the strength of my google-fu, but I assume the present dispute has something to do with the fact that ductile iron was invented in 1943? (wikipedia link, but the date on the patent checks out)

So some of this depends on your definition of "back then." The "Prentiss" brand name for vise's was discontinued sometime in the 50s. Maybe they paid the patent license fees to Inco for a decade or so, so that later Prentisses (Prentii?) were ductile iron, but it's still a reasonable assumption that most Prentisses are grey iron.

This Wilton catalog from 1974 that advertises the New Wilton Machinists Vises as featuring a "ductile alloy." (hat tip Sonoros).

So... my guess would be pre-70s Wiltons are probably all grey iron, 70s or later machinist vises are probably ductile iron.

Cool, I've been trying to narrow down the date for when Wilton made the switch. They're aren't many Wilton catalogs on the web. Most sources say DI wasn't used in industry until the 60's. I question whether or not the "ductile alloy" in the catalog is really DI. It states that it is 50% stronger than grey iron vises, which puts it rather low for DI, but about right for an alloy grey cast iron. Plus I've seen Wiltons made after that catalog was printed that aren't DI...

 

[Provincial]

Don't forget that Malleable Iron was first produced in the USA in 1826, and is much stronger and more ductile than plain cast iron. It is cast white iron with a heat treatment to anneal the material. It is a predecessor of ductile iron.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malleable_iron

 

[kwoswalt99]

Don't forget that Malleable Iron was first produced in the USA in 1826, and is much stronger and more ductile than plain cast iron. It is cast white iron with a heat treatment to anneal the material. It is a predecessor of ductile iron.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malleable_iron

Oh I have not forgotten! That's why I think Columbians were better than most of the old companies.