What to know when looking for a "Cold Cut Metal Saw"

[penright]

Did some googling on the forum, either my search was wrong or really old threads and should not resurrect them. So .....


Hopefully in the next few months I hope to buy what I call a Cold Cut Metal Saw. After dealing with my abrasive chop saw sparks and one small fire, I think it time. I have zero in person experience with them, just what I have seen on TV.

I started this thread http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=351721 and in one of the post @LXCam sugested a band saw. I have a small Craftsman one, but it does not cut very straight. Also to cut an angle you have to tilt the piece in the clamp.

So here I am to learn.

 

[scissorman]

Subscribed for info as well since I'm in the market for a new "chop saw".

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Are you referring to a true 'COLD SAW' like these?...http://www.haberleusa.com/

If so, I can tell you about them as we have one in our shop.

 

[bcradio]

I would love to be able to justify the cost of a cold cut saw, but I do not want to pay the thousands of dollars they cost for the amount I would use it.

I settled for a dry cut saw and porta-band instead. Unfortunately I do not have any helpful info for cold cut saws.

 

[Ign]

Yep I suspect OP is looking for a multi-cut saw aka a "hot saw" (no joke) in the industry around here. The chips are stupid hot.

A true cold saw will spin double digit RPM, full coolant, big lever handle, cost several grand and in most cases 3ph (Baileigh does make a small 1ph)

 

[dr_clyde]

Those stupid "dry cut" saws are a pain in the ***, and the chips are screaming hot. They make just as much mess as an abrasive saw, and cost a whole bunch more. I used one for a while at a shop I worked at. Garbage. And it was a "good one" M.K. Morse, I believe.

An actual, industrial, cold saw is a pleasure to use. But they are built like real machine shops need, and are priced accordingly.

Get a horizontal band saw. Best all around cutting tool in a shop. Versatile, inexpensive, and more effective.

 

[penright]

Yep I suspect OP is looking for a multi-cut saw aka a "hot saw" (no joke) in the industry around here.

Thanks for all the dialog so far, this kind of correction is what I needed. I will keep watching to see if I can figure what I want and then can afford.

So to get the terminology correct, here is what I am hearing ....
abrasive (spark flinger, fire starter)
hot saw (no sparks, but hot chip, no water)
cold saw (no sparks, no hot chip, water?) -The pictures of the Harberle does not look like water is involved.

The chips are stupid hot.

When you say stupid hot, somewhere between melting plastic but not starting a fire?

cost several grand and in most cases 3ph (Baileigh does make a small 1ph)

By this statement, I can say I am definitely NOT looking for a "cold saw".

 

[bcradio]

So to get the terminology correct, here is what I am hearing ....
abrasive (spark flinger, fire starter)
hot saw (no sparks, but hot chip, no water)
cold saw (no sparks, no hot chip, water?) -The pictures of the Harberle does not look like water is involved.

No, it is a dry cut saw. The chips that come off them are warm but have never been a problem for me.

I really like my dry cut saw (as do many others on here). Some people are just more used to a bandsaw. Both work great. If you have the room, I would get a bandsaw, but if not the dry cut saw is a great alternative.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

True 'COLD SAWS' do indeed use coolant. We have a Haberle H350 in our shop. We also have a Hyd-Mech DM-8 horizontal band saw, but it only gets used for cutting large stuff.

Cold Saws are **** for cutting just about anything that fits under the blade. SUPER accurate, very low RPM, quiet, and burr free cuts. Expensive, but worth every penny.

 

[Ign]

FWIW I do think most places don't call 'em hot saws...that's just a local regional thing here.

More common is multi-cut or dry cut saw.

The chips are basically the same as dry machining, and yeah they'll melt into plastic. Start a fire? Depends. They tend to cool fairly quickly as they're thin. Not unlike hot shavings from a drill bit, insert mill or fly cutter.

Otherwise dr Clyde and I are 100% on the same page - I hate dry cuts. I run my own machine shop & have 3 bandsaws (not incl portabands). I keep a 14"'abrasive for hardened materials.

edit: if I could only have one bandsaw on a "reasonable" budget it'd be a 7x12 swivel frame. You could fab 99% of anything for home, shop and vehicles with that. Take care of it - even a Taiwanese one - and it'll give you 20 years of accurate service. Blades ~$30 on sales and last forever if you're not stupid w them (ie forget to clamp your work, try to cut hardened, etc)

 

[bareass172]

I'll add a vote for a bandsaw. It's what I upgraded to when I was tired of my abrasive cut and I love it. The cheaper ones take a little tweaking to get them setup right, but some time spent will get you where you need to be making pretty darn straight cuts. I got lucky and found an old Wilton for $75, brought it home and cleaned it up and rewired it and I love it. I was cutting 3" solid round stock last week and that's where it really shines - I would have been FOREVER on my abrasive chop, the bandsaw I just setup, turn it on and walk away. It turns itself off when it's finished.

 

[Thumper68]

Here is a thread I started that lists all the common metal cutting tools and their strnegths and weaknesses as I see it.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=355300

 

[cvairwerks]

I'll toss out a different thought...If you are only making straight cuts, think about a power hacksaw. Low tech, can be used with or without coolant, for the most part, set up, start and forget til the cut is done. I've got two Marvel #2's and a Racine in line for restoration now.

There is something soothing about a power hack saw working on a big piece of stock

 

[sonoronos]

Re: What to know when looking for a "Cold Cut Metal Saw"

if you don't have hundred dollar bills falling out of your pockets when you walk around, drive a range rover, or own a machine shop, i would recommend a real-deal bandsaw way before any cold saw.

cold saws have stern limitations on what you can cut depending on the wheel.

when it comes to cutting tool steel, chromoly, or very, very thick cross-sections, the bandsaw is the best tool, imho. this is because, in essence, a bandsaw is essentially a cold saw with a very large radius blade, but the packaging is significantly more compact and the effective cutting torque is high for a given motor size.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Re: What to know when looking for a "Cold Cut Metal Saw"

if you don't have hundred dollar bills falling out of your pockets when you walk around, drive a range rover, or own a machine shop, i would recommend a real-deal bandsaw way before any cold saw.

cold saws have stern limitations on what you can cut depending on the wheel.

when it comes to cutting tool steel, chromoly, or very, very thick cross-sections, the bandsaw is the best tool, imho.

Being as we have both in our shop, I'll have to strongly disagree with you. I keep about 10 different cold saw blades in a rack next to the saw and can change a blade in about 30 seconds. Our Haberle H350 (14") has 2 speeds, low speed (53 RPM) is only used for stainless & tool steel and high speed (106 RPM) for everything else. It will cut a 4X4 or up to 7X2.5 @ 90° and 3.5X3.5 @ 45°. Super accurate cuts and practically burr free.
As I stated previously, we also have a HYD-MECH DM8 horizontal bandsaw, and , don't get me wrong...if I didn't have the cold saw, I'd use the hell out of it. I actually purchased it for a specific job the required miter cutting 4X6 tubing and it's cuts are highly accurate. It's just that the cold saw is so much faster and user friendly.
If I were the OP, I'd search used first...he might get lucky. He should be very happy with either a cold saw or horizontal bandsaw.

 

[tarbellb]

I cut primarily thin wall HREW (steel tube) and love my "dry cut" saw.

Pros:
- faster then bandsaw
- easier to set up
- smaller foot print

Cons:
- very loud
- shoots hot chips (will blister skin)
- expensive blades

For me, its the best option. I jump back and forth between miter and straight cuts all day. That and the super fast action keeps pace with my work flow.

I will say that a bandsaw is likely more versatile and has its own set of pros/cons.

If looking for dry cut saws, get a dedicated metal one and not the "multi use" style.

 

[Ign]

Re: What to know when looking for a "Cold Cut Metal Saw"

Being as we have both in our shop, I'll have to strongly disagree with you. I keep about 10 different cold saw blades in a rack next to the saw and can change a blade in about 30 seconds. Our Haberle H350 (14") has 2 speeds, low speed (53 RPM) is only used for stainless & tool steel and high speed (106 RPM) for everything else. It will cut a 4X4 or up to 7X2.5 @ 90° and 3.5X3.5 @ 45°. Super accurate cuts and practically burr free.
As I stated previously, we also have a HYD-MECH DM8 horizontal bandsaw, and , don't get me wrong...if I didn't have the cold saw, I'd use the hell out of it. I actually purchased it for a specific job the required miter cutting 4X6 tubing and it's cuts are highly accurate. It's just that the cold saw is so much faster and user friendly.
If I were the OP, I'd search used first...he might get lucky. He should be very happy with either a cold saw or horizontal bandsaw.

You missed the whole part where he started out with hundred dollar bills falling out of your pockets. I think most would agree a cold cut is freakin' awesome but a nice Haberle is like shopping for one of those $100k Range Rovers Four Wheeler seems to love so much, just for running daily errands. Plus to really benefit from a cold cut you need a nice, long dedicated infeed and outfeed station (IMO). I guess you could do portable roller stands....

I worked in a shop w a Haberle and yeah, it's all we used indoors. Outside we had a huge tilt-frame (drool!) Marvel for crazy setups (the big table allows for jigging you can't hardly do any other way) and/or loading big stock w the forklift.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

Re: What to know when looking for a "Cold Cut Metal Saw"

You missed the whole part where he started out with hundred dollar bills falling out of your pockets. I think most would agree a cold cut is freakin' awesome but a nice Haberle is like shopping for one of those $100k Range Rovers Four Wheeler seems to love so much, just for running daily errands. Plus to really benefit from a cold cut you need a nice, long dedicated infeed and outfeed station (IMO). I guess you could do portable roller stands....

I worked in a shop w a Haberle and yeah, it's all we used indoors. Outside we had a huge tilt-frame (drool!) Marvel for crazy setups (the big table allows for jigging you can't hardly do any other way) and/or loading big stock w the forklift.

Not that is matters, but that was Sonoronos and not the OP that made that comment. But again, that's why I suggested the OP look for used machines first, as both cold saws and good bandsaws are pricy brand new.
Face it, it's a trade-off. My father always preached to me "Buy the best tools you can afford" which says it all in a nut shell.

 

[sonoronos]

i'm in 100% agreement that if you can afford/find the cold saw of the size and power you need, cold saws are actually much nicer and faster to use than bandsaws.



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[penright]

Started to try and quote to give some context for comments, there is just too much, so I thought I would just think out loud.

Again thanks, when I created the title and used the words cold cut, I was thinking dry cut. I was thinking something like I have now, abrasive, but without sparks. I can say cold cut is defiantly out of my price range. So my questions need to be about dry cuts saws. Also, I find it interesting the opinions on band saw vs dry cut. As I said, I had a small craftsman band saw. We were building a open wheel race car in the early 80's. Maybe it was the band saw technology of the time and as everything has improved, but it just seemed temperamental. As I said, if I wanted to cut an angle we would have to tilt the work using eyeball, then half way down you could see it drifting off. I like the abrasive saw, just not the chance of fire.

I like the idea of used. Something that is wore out for a machine shop, probably would last me years. I wonder how to get into the know for that.

So any heads up if a guy was looking for a dry cut saw?

 

[sonoronos]

what are you making with this thing you want to buy?

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[sonoronos]

Re: What to know when looking for a "Cold Cut Metal Saw"

if you're just cutting 2 inch diameter and less tubing because all you're going to do is off road fabrication, then say so

if you are making decisions based on poor equipment you were forced to use a decade ago, i don't feel you have a clear understanding of what tool you actually need. you "want" something without understanding what your options are.

 

[Tucko]

I've used several cold cut saws in shops over the years. Great for stainless steel tubing, etc. and a pleasure to use. However, like everyone else has said, they're very expensive...

 

[Carquest]

I've got a Slugger made by Fein, but have not used it yet. I always heard it referred to as a cold cut saw, but is that not true?

 

[penright]

Re: What to know when looking for a "Cold Cut Metal Saw"

if you're just cutting 2 inch diameter and less tubing because all you're going to do is off road fabrication, then say so

what are you making with this thing you want to buy?

Good Question. Don't know.
Really, don't have anything in mind, that's why if you were on a deserted island and could only have either a dry cut or band saw, which one would it be, kind of question.
I can say no exotic type metals, nothing thick either.
I can also say room is an issue. I did plan on small welding table, with sides to keep sparks from the abrasive cut off saw from melting insulation and windows. I was picking brains on how to do it when someone said, get rid of the sparks. I been stalled for a few months because of funds, but that is changing. Now that I have my terminology right, I would have called this the dry cut thread.
Theres not a whole lot of floor space, but I can make it happen if need arises.

if you are making decisions based on poor equipment you were forced to use a decade ago,

Actually, 3 decades and it was old then. Maybe I will post a picture of it. I did google band saws, you can teach old dog new tricks. I do realize the fallacy in trying apply my experience to current technology.

i don't feel you have a clear understanding of what tool you actually need. you "want" something without understanding what your options are.

You are correct. That is why I started this thread. Thank you for really reading between the lines. These discussions are helping me.

 

[f575gtc]

I have one of these

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Evolutio...1-4-in-Multi-Purpose-Chop-Saw-RAGE4/203661791

and it has served me well, I don't know if this is what is considered a cold cut... I can cut metal with it and it leaves no burrs and doesn't heat up the metal

 

[penright]

I've got a Slugger made by Fein, but have not used it yet. I always heard it referred to as a cold cut saw, but is that not true?

I am still learning, but if my understanding is correct, looking at pictures, I don't think so.
From what I have seen cold saws are really low RPM. Abrasive seems to be in the 3600, while dry cut are in 1300, and cold seem to be in the 30. I can not tell yet if liquid coolant is needed to be consider cold.

 

[tarbellb]

PLEASE READ:

HE IS LOOKING FOR A DRY CUT SAW, NOT A COLD CUT.

Dang guys, all hung up on the title and not reading the actual convo.


My opinion from using most of the dry cut saws on the market is that you should consider the following features and construction.

1) base material- a cast aluminum/iron will be much sturdier then a stamped steel base

2) fence and vise - most are rinky dinky stamped steel and set screw adjustment

Thats about it, everything else is about the same. Some have a 12" blade, some have additional stabilizers (MKmorse), some will do multiple materials but its a compromise.

My favorite so far have been Evolution 380 14" (best bang for the buck) and my current Hitachi CD14F 14". The MK morse gets good marks and also the Makita (12" only).

Otherwise, just go with the cheapest dry cut as the are basically all the same stamped base version.

 

[The Tool Tyrant]

FWIW, All true 'COLD SAWS' use coolant. It acts as both lubricant and cooling.

Just to clarify, a 'COLD SAW' is called a 'COLD SAW' not a 'COLD CUT'... those are what you make a sandwich with.

 

[AndeiH]

this is what i'm getting.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200641810_200641810

i mainly work with 3" material and under and its for hobby work so it should work just fine for my needs. find a $50 off coupon and its only $250.

 

[penright]

Just to clarify, a 'COLD SAW' is called a 'COLD SAW' not a 'COLD CUT'... those are what you make a sandwich with.

Careful, you may start an argument if bacon is consider a cold cut.

My favorite so far have been Evolution 380 14" (best bang for the buck) and my current Hitachi CD14F 14". The MK morse gets good marks and also the Makita (12" only).

this is what i'm getting.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200641810_200641810 find a $50 off coupon and its only $250.

To the point of some post, throw one more into the mix http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200659143_200659143
Without confusing things with discounts, the Dry Cut Irontron $300, Evo 380 $400, and Klutch Band saw $280.

Watching some of the reviews for the Evo 380, kind of impressive for the money. More research .....

I still need to dig out my old craftsman metal band saw and post the picture. Good news, old house closed yesterday, funds should start freeing up shortly.

 

[penright]

Really was thinking about the Evo, but Norther Tool just put theirs on sale for $235. There is a coupon on the website, $20 off on item's $100 or more. That's gets me down to $215. Getting tempted to pull the trigger.

 

[rsanter]

I have a slugger by Fein.
It is better than the steelmaster that replaced it.
I love it and they are far netter than the abrasive saws in most ways.
Using a carbide toothed blade there are far fewer sparks or hot chips that come off of it. In reality if you are getting sparks then you are dulling the blade. Even though they will but faster you need to go slow or you will be dulling the blade. Blades are expensive.

The down side is that they don't do so well cutting very hard material or welds. I already killed a blade cutting cromolly material and cutting through a few welds. I try to avoid that now.

They tend to cut cleaner and straighter than an abrasive saw, the abrsive saws I have had all had an issue with blade wander on thicker material and when cutting at an angle. The dry cut saw does not have that problem

Now keep in mind that the reality is that one saw does not do all you will ever need to do.
I still have a horizontal band saw, an abrasive saw, plasma....as well as the dry cut saw.
Depending on what you do you may need more than one

Bob

 

[penright]

this is what i'm getting.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200641810_200641810

Have you bought yours yet?
Where did you see the $50 coupon?