Three Coat Chip to Rejection w/ 100% solids Aliphatic Poly Pricing?

[Andrew_K]

GJ,

So I've got a garage build going (for the 20 months now as it's gone in stages) and getting to the end (sorta). I've evaluated quite a few products for flooring and after going back and forth on race deck, DIY systems, etc. I'm hovering towards a professionally done commercial grade epoxy floor and I'm curious to see if my bids were on par. It's between either a broadcast Quartz or a Chip to Rejection Epoxy floor at this point. I haven't noticed a ton of in depth discussion in the archives on commercial epoxy/quartz so I wanted to start this to add to the resources here.

Garage Build: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290736&showall=1

I plan on detailing the cost of finishing my garage in my thread once it's all done to help with documentation but since there are several vendors here I'd like to get some feedback:

Garage Size: 736 sq. ft. (23' x 32').
New pour slab in 2015

Quote: Three Coat Chip to Rejection w/ 100% Solids Aliphatic Polyurethane Clear Coat Floor

Prep:
1) Shot blast floor
2) magnetically sweep
3) hand grind wall areas
4) power sweep

Application:
1) Prime w/ Metro M300 100% solids epoxy enamel (12 Mils DFT)
2) Apply mid-coat of Metro M300 100% solids epoxy enamel clear coat (10 Mils DFT)
3) Broadcast to rejection flake colors over uncured mid-coat
4) Scrape & vacuum floor (clean up rejection broadcast flakes)
5) Apply clear coat of Metro #M1800 HSU 100% solids aliphatic polyester polyurethane enamel clear coat (15 mils DFT)

-Side Notes: Pre-fill expansion joints w. M300 filled w/ Cabosil
-Non-skid additive added at no cost to form medium to heavy level

So the other option was a 3 coat broadcast quartz system instead.

Questions For Group:
#1 - Vendors what would your quote for this project be?
#2 - What would your recommendation be on level of non-skid added?
#3 - Quartz or Epoxy?
#4 - Comments, Suggestions, Etc. are all welcome.

Thanks!

Andrew

 

[Garage Flooring]

GJ,

So I've got a garage build going (for the 20 months now as it's gone in stages) and getting to the end (sorta). I've evaluated quite a few products for flooring and after going back and forth on race deck, DIY systems, etc. I'm hovering towards a professionally done commercial grade epoxy floor and I'm curious to see if my bids were on par. It's between either a broadcast Quartz or a Chip to Rejection Epoxy floor at this point. I haven't noticed a ton of in depth discussion in the archives on commercial epoxy/quartz so I wanted to start this to add to the resources here.

Garage Build: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290736&showall=1

I plan on detailing the cost of finishing my garage in my thread once it's all done to help with documentation but since there are several vendors here I'd like to get some feedback:

Garage Size: 736 sq. ft. (23' x 32').
New pour slab in 2015

Quote: Three Coat Chip to Rejection w/ 100% Solids Aliphatic Polyurethane Clear Coat Floor

Prep:
1) Shot blast floor
2) magnetically sweep
3) hand grind wall areas
4) power sweep

Application:
1) Prime w/ Metro M300 100% solids epoxy enamel (12 Mils DFT)
2) Apply mid-coat of Metro M300 100% solids epoxy enamel clear coat (10 Mils DFT)
3) Broadcast to rejection flake colors over uncured mid-coat
4) Scrape & vacuum floor (clean up rejection broadcast flakes)
5) Apply clear coat of Metro #M1800 HSU 100% solids aliphatic polyester polyurethane enamel clear coat (15 mils DFT)

-Side Notes: Pre-fill expansion joints w. M300 filled w/ Cabosil
-Non-skid additive added at no cost to form medium to heavy level

So the other option was a 3 coat broadcast quartz system instead.

Questions For Group:
#1 - Vendors what would your quote for this project be?
#2 - What would your recommendation be on level of non-skid added?
#3 - Quartz or Epoxy?
#4 - Comments, Suggestions, Etc. are all welcome.

Thanks!

Andrew

If money is not an issue with the overall cost of the project a quartz floor over a flake floor all day.

Anti skid depends on what aggregate you select. I would typically go with a 1/2 to 1# per gallon of a tabular alumina BUT the urethane you propose is thicker than what we use.

We don't do installs, so I am not even going to throw out a number.

I cant find spec sheets on the products you mentioned. Spec sheets would help A LOT.

 

[Andrew_K]

Justin,

Thanks for the commentary. Do you mind explaining to us why a quartz floor is preferred over a flake floor? Is the durability any greater? (I'm still trying to understand this myself at this industrial level).

Traffic would be every day garage usage, with some minor rebuild projects and a 4 Post lift in the future primarily for storage. But I want this floor to last 20 years - that's why I plan on going this route. Thanks again for everyone's feedback!

Andrew

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Quartz sands are head and shoulders stronger than vinyl paint chips.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Garage Flooring]

GJ,

So I've got a garage build going (for the 20 months now as it's gone in stages) and getting to the end (sorta). I've evaluated quite a few products for flooring and after going back and forth on race deck, DIY systems, etc. I'm hovering towards a professionally done commercial grade epoxy floor and I'm curious to see if my bids were on par. It's between either a broadcast Quartz or a Chip to Rejection Epoxy floor at this point. I haven't noticed a ton of in depth discussion in the archives on commercial epoxy/quartz so I wanted to start this to add to the resources here.

Garage Build: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290736&showall=1

I plan on detailing the cost of finishing my garage in my thread once it's all done to help with documentation but since there are several vendors here I'd like to get some feedback:

Garage Size: 736 sq. ft. (23' x 32').
New pour slab in 2015

Quote: Three Coat Chip to Rejection w/ 100% Solids Aliphatic Polyurethane Clear Coat Floor

Prep:
1) Shot blast floor
2) magnetically sweep
3) hand grind wall areas
4) power sweep

Application:
1) Prime w/ Metro M300 100% solids epoxy enamel (12 Mils DFT)
2) Apply mid-coat of Metro M300 100% solids epoxy enamel clear coat (10 Mils DFT)
3) Broadcast to rejection flake colors over uncured mid-coat
4) Scrape & vacuum floor (clean up rejection broadcast flakes)
5) Apply clear coat of Metro #M1800 HSU 100% solids aliphatic polyester polyurethane enamel clear coat (15 mils DFT)

-Side Notes: Pre-fill expansion joints w. M300 filled w/ Cabosil
-Non-skid additive added at no cost to form medium to heavy level

So the other option was a 3 coat broadcast quartz system instead.

Questions For Group:
#1 - Vendors what would your quote for this project be?
#2 - What would your recommendation be on level of non-skid added?
#3 - Quartz or Epoxy?
#4 - Comments, Suggestions, Etc. are all welcome.

Thanks!

Andrew

Justin,

Thanks for the commentary. Do you mind explaining to us why a quartz floor is preferred over a flake floor? Is the durability any greater? (I'm still trying to understand this myself at this industrial level).

Traffic would be every day garage usage, with some minor rebuild projects and a 4 Post lift in the future primarily for storage. But I want this floor to last 20 years - that's why I plan on going this route. Thanks again for everyone's feedback!

Andrew

Staying away from technical jargon here, just look at it this way. You have a floor covered with paint flakes.... Or you have a floor covered with rock solid quartz sand...... There is simply no comparison -- again if price is not an issue.

Now me personally, I am probably not going to pay for a quartz floor -- but I also would not pay to have someone install it for me, so I am really not the best example

 

[Andrew_K]

Best answer of the day. Many thanks for everyone's help. Flooring isn't going down til 12th-14th so will take pics to document. Going with a 3 coat quartz with 100% solids poly for the garage. Most likely 6 parts grey, 3 white, 1 black. Will have sample started tomorrow and post to garage thread. Much appreciated Justin for your commentary.

(FYI - the 3 coat flake to rejection and 3 coat quartz with the poly topcoat were only a $400 difference so it was a no brainer for the quartz).

 

[Garage Flooring]

Best answer of the day. Many thanks for everyone's help. Flooring isn't going down til 12th-14th so will take pics to document. Going with a 3 coat quartz with 100% solids poly for the garage. Most likely 6 parts grey, 3 white, 1 black. Will have sample started tomorrow and post to garage thread. Much appreciated Justin for your commentary.

(FYI - the 3 coat flake to rejection and 3 coat quartz with the poly topcoat were only a $400 difference so it was a no brainer for the quartz).

$400 bucks... All day long. They must have a local source for the Quartz. Freight is always a killer on 50# bags of Quartz

 

[nyepoxyguy]

Vinyl can be plenty strong as long as you're not moving forklifts over it all day. Quartz is a great option nevertheless. How much per sq are you paying for the quartz install if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Andrew_K]

I'm up in Detroit and I have one of the largest industrial quartz floor installers in the U.S. doing my work (Everyone forgets but there are LOTS of automotive supplier factories up here as well that supply all the automotive parts which means lots of big floors).

Here's the full quote with both flake chip to rejection and quartz options. I plan on documenting this install as well on my garage build-out to stand as another resource here at GJ for others.

P.S. - I'm going option #4 since I don't have an obnoxiously large garage like most here (wish I did but I live in the city). $5.99/ft installed.

Garage Build Link:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290736&showall=1


=====
=====

We are pleased to quote the following cost for the preparation and coating of 736 sq. ft. of garage floor at your residence. The following is what we discussed:


SURFACE PREPARATION

A. K&M will shot blast to ensure adhesion of the new coating system.
B. K&M will magnetically sweep to remove spent shot.
C. K&M will hand grind all wall areas. (Due to the shrouds used on hand grinders K&M is only capable of grinding to within 1” of the wall)
D. K&M will power sweep prior to coating.
E. The preparation debris will be disposed of in a dumpster provided by the customer.


TOPCOAT SYSTEM OPTION #1 Three Coat Chip to rejection with 100% solids Cycloaliphatic epoxy clear coat.

A. K&M will prime the entire floor area with Metro M300 100% solids epoxy enamel tinted to appropriate color. (12 Mils DFT)
B. K&M will return and apply a mid-coat of Metro M300 100% solids epoxy enamel clear coat. (10 Mils DFT)
C. K&M will broadcast to rejection the customer’s desired flake colors over the uncured mid-coat.
D. K&M will scrape and vacuum floor after mid-coat and flake broadcast have cured.
E. K&M will apply clear coat of Metro M-PC-1803 100% solids Cycloaliphatic epoxy clear coat. (15 mils DFT)

Total cost for prep & coating with above system 736 sq. ft. x $4.87 = $3,584.32


TOPCOAT SYSTEM OPTION #2 Three Coat Chip to rejection with 100% solids Aliphatic Polyurethane clear coat.

A. K&M will prime the entire floor area with Metro M300 100% solids epoxy enamel tinted to appropriate color. (12 Mils DFT)
B. K&M will return and apply a mid-coat of Metro M300 100% solids epoxy enamel clear coat. (10 Mils DFT)
C. K&M will broadcast to rejection the customer’s desired flake colors over the uncured mid-coat.
D. K&M will scrape and vacuum floor after mid-coat and flake broadcast have cured.
E. K&M will apply clear coat of Metro #M1800 HSU 100% solids aliphatic polyester polyurethane enamel clear coat. (15 mils DFT)

Total cost for prep & coating with above system 736 sq. ft. x $5.43 = $3,996.48


TOPCOAT SYSTEM OPTION #3 – Three Coat Broadcast Quartz System with 100% solids Cycloaliphatic epoxy clear coat.

A. K&M will prime the entire floor area with Metro #M300 100% solids epoxy enamel tinted to desired color. (10 Mils DFT)
B. K&M will mid-coat with Metro #M300 100% solids epoxy enamel clear coat (15 Mils DFT) & broadcast to excess the customers desired quartz (Approx. 750 lbs.)
C. After the mid-coat & broadcast coat has cured, K&M will sweep up the excess quartz, sand, vacuum, and apply a topcoat of Metro #MPC-1803 100% solids cycloaliphatic epoxy enamel clear coat. (15 Mils DFT)

Total cost for prep & coating with above system 736 sq. ft. x $5.43 = $3,996.48



TOPCOAT SYSTEM OPTION #4 – Three Coat Broadcast Quartz System with 100% solids Aliphatic Polyurethane clear coat.

A. K&M will prime the entire floor area with Metro #M300 100% solids epoxy enamel tinted to desired color. (10 Mils DFT)
B. K&M will mid-coat with Metro #M300 100% solids epoxy enamel clear coat (15 Mils DFT) & broadcast to excess the customers desired quartz (Approx. 750 lbs.)
C. After the mid-coat & broadcast coat has cured, K&M will sweep up the excess quartz, sand, vacuum, and apply a topcoat of Metro #M1800 HSU 100% solids aliphatic polyester polyurethane enamel clear coat. (15 Mils DFT)

Total cost for prep & coating with above system 736 sq. ft. x $5.99 = $4,408.64


ADDITIONAL OPTION – High Wear Urethane Clear Coat (For Option #1 thru #4)

A. Using a Clark Floor Sander with as sanding screen, K&M will sand the floor and power sweep prior to coating.
B. K&M will apply and additional clear coat of Metro #358 Satin Finish High Wear Aliphatic Polyurethane enamel (1-2 Mils DFT)

Total cost for prep & coating with above system 736 sq. ft. x $0.85 = $625.60

 

[Armorpoxy]

If quartz is in the budget, definitely go for it. Great choice.

 

[ducksface]

That's a nicely written well thought out bid.


There's a current and active thread here surveying garage size.
Most here have a two car, not the mausoleum you think.

It's a dollar a square foot cheaper than I thought just the material would be.

 

[Andrew_K]

Ducksface - interesting comment on that. After I gave the job to K&M we spoke and he asked me how he came in compared to his competitors and 2 things stuck out that I appreciated being that I'm in sales myself.

#1 - The quote he gave me is the same price/ft as he bids all jobs regardless of size. This company just got the contract to do every Mercedes AMG dealer in the US that's opening this summer as a specialty dealer via MB and they got the same price. He does that because his labor and materials costs are all standard and they're a "small'ish" family owned business who take pride in their quality, etc. and it makes it easy for them.

#2 - They actually UNDERBID the price for the poly top coat which is guaranteed to not amber because they want clients to do it. Interesting but they said maybe 1 in 50 will go with the better quality polyurethane top coat due to $$$ but for the outcome and longevity of their product they want everyone to use it. I thought that was interesting as well.

As I mentioned previously on my garage build thread I'll document their install process, samples, etc. for those who are interested in this type of system. Thanks again.

 

[COLOviaPA]

Andrew,

Just a couple quick notes for you.
Figure your primer in WFT rather than DFT. WFT is really all that matters for your primer and since you blasted, your DFT will be low but that's ok.

On your "expansion joints", you never want to use a rigid epoxy (M300) in an expansion joint as those joints are designed to move. If they are truly expansion joints, either do not fill them at all or "honor" the joints by filling with a flexible sealant after the install.

If the joints are really just "control joints" then I wouldn't put a rigid epoxy in those either because the epoxy will be stronger than the concrete. Best bet is to use a something semi with low compressive strength that will allow the joint to move if it wants to without cracking the slab

 

[COLOviaPA]

Make sure you double-check with them on this 15 mil urethane topcoat.
You will need 15 mils to cover the sand enough so that it's not too rough for your garage, but most high quality urethanes do not go down this thick without clouding. 3-5mils is much more typical, but this may be a chemistry I'm not familiar with. I'd be curious to know exactly who the manufacturer and product# is (It's not really "metro 1800)

I'm up in Detroit and I have one of the largest industrial quartz floor installers in the U.S. doing my work (Everyone forgets but there are LOTS of automotive supplier factories up here as well that supply all the automotive parts which means lots of big floors).

Here's the full quote with both flake chip to rejection and quartz options. I plan on documenting this install as well on my garage build-out to stand as another resource here at GJ for others.

P.S. - I'm going option #4 since I don't have an obnoxiously large garage like most here (wish I did but I live in the city). $5.99/ft installed.

Garage Build Link:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=290736&showall=1


=====
=====

We are pleased to quote the following cost for the preparation and coating of 736 sq. ft. of garage floor at your residence. The following is what we discussed:


SURFACE PREPARATION

A. K&M will shot blast to ensure adhesion of the new coating system.
B. K&M will magnetically sweep to remove spent shot.
C. K&M will hand grind all wall areas. (Due to the shrouds used on hand grinders K&M is only capable of grinding to within 1” of the wall)
D. K&M will power sweep prior to coating.
E. The preparation debris will be disposed of in a dumpster provided by the customer.


TOPCOAT SYSTEM OPTION #1 Three Coat Chip to rejection with 100% solids Cycloaliphatic epoxy clear coat.

A. K&M will prime the entire floor area with Metro M300 100% solids epoxy enamel tinted to appropriate color. (12 Mils DFT)
B. K&M will return and apply a mid-coat of Metro M300 100% solids epoxy enamel clear coat. (10 Mils DFT)
C. K&M will broadcast to rejection the customer’s desired flake colors over the uncured mid-coat.
D. K&M will scrape and vacuum floor after mid-coat and flake broadcast have cured.
E. K&M will apply clear coat of Metro M-PC-1803 100% solids Cycloaliphatic epoxy clear coat. (15 mils DFT)

Total cost for prep & coating with above system 736 sq. ft. x $4.87 = $3,584.32


TOPCOAT SYSTEM OPTION #2 Three Coat Chip to rejection with 100% solids Aliphatic Polyurethane clear coat.

A. K&M will prime the entire floor area with Metro M300 100% solids epoxy enamel tinted to appropriate color. (12 Mils DFT)
B. K&M will return and apply a mid-coat of Metro M300 100% solids epoxy enamel clear coat. (10 Mils DFT)
C. K&M will broadcast to rejection the customer’s desired flake colors over the uncured mid-coat.
D. K&M will scrape and vacuum floor after mid-coat and flake broadcast have cured.
E. K&M will apply clear coat of Metro #M1800 HSU 100% solids aliphatic polyester polyurethane enamel clear coat. (15 mils DFT)

Total cost for prep & coating with above system 736 sq. ft. x $5.43 = $3,996.48


TOPCOAT SYSTEM OPTION #3 – Three Coat Broadcast Quartz System with 100% solids Cycloaliphatic epoxy clear coat.

A. K&M will prime the entire floor area with Metro #M300 100% solids epoxy enamel tinted to desired color. (10 Mils DFT)
B. K&M will mid-coat with Metro #M300 100% solids epoxy enamel clear coat (15 Mils DFT) & broadcast to excess the customers desired quartz (Approx. 750 lbs.)
C. After the mid-coat & broadcast coat has cured, K&M will sweep up the excess quartz, sand, vacuum, and apply a topcoat of Metro #MPC-1803 100% solids cycloaliphatic epoxy enamel clear coat. (15 Mils DFT)

Total cost for prep & coating with above system 736 sq. ft. x $5.43 = $3,996.48



TOPCOAT SYSTEM OPTION #4 – Three Coat Broadcast Quartz System with 100% solids Aliphatic Polyurethane clear coat.

A. K&M will prime the entire floor area with Metro #M300 100% solids epoxy enamel tinted to desired color. (10 Mils DFT)
B. K&M will mid-coat with Metro #M300 100% solids epoxy enamel clear coat (15 Mils DFT) & broadcast to excess the customers desired quartz (Approx. 750 lbs.)
C. After the mid-coat & broadcast coat has cured, K&M will sweep up the excess quartz, sand, vacuum, and apply a topcoat of Metro #M1800 HSU 100% solids aliphatic polyester polyurethane enamel clear coat. (15 Mils DFT)

Total cost for prep & coating with above system 736 sq. ft. x $5.99 = $4,408.64


ADDITIONAL OPTION – High Wear Urethane Clear Coat (For Option #1 thru #4)

A. Using a Clark Floor Sander with as sanding screen, K&M will sand the floor and power sweep prior to coating.
B. K&M will apply and additional clear coat of Metro #358 Satin Finish High Wear Aliphatic Polyurethane enamel (1-2 Mils DFT)

Total cost for prep & coating with above system 736 sq. ft. x $0.85 = $625.60

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Make sure you double-check with them on this 15 mil urethane topcoat.

You will need 15 mils to cover the sand enough so that it's not too rough for your garage, but most high quality urethanes do not go down this thick without clouding. 3-5mils is much more typical, but this may be a chemistry I'm not familiar with. I'd be curious to know exactly who the manufacturer and product# is (It's not really "metro 1800)

That's right on the money. They are likely using a high solids pap. Urethane don't like to be 15 mils and good luck putting it on that thick, if you could you would have a cloudy bubbly mess.


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