Concrete residential floor sealers

[Ed Devinney]

We're at the tail end of building a house with polished concrete floors. The floor finishers used Sherwin-William H&C lithium finish. The floors look good.

This weekend I wet-vac'd the finished concrete with plain water, and noticed that the concrete absorbs water. This makes me wonder how the floor will resist staining - if water is absorbed, it seems reasonable that a glass of wine will be absorbed, too, and leave a permanent stain.

Concrete experts: am I right to be concerned? If so, what course of action do you think we should take?

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Grind it off and put down an epoxy or polyurea. The product you have is breathable and permeable.


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[Ed Devinney]

Ok, lemme revise my question: course of action that doesn't require heavy rework on 1500 SF of newly-finished floor.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

You can try adding a guard like our HD40 Concrete Stainguard.

http://www.legacyindustrial.net/products/densifiers/hd40-concrete-stainguard.html


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[Armorpoxy]

Hi
Our Prep Crete Division polishes floors. Normally as a final step at #400 or #800 a staining guard is burnished in. Your polisher should have done that. It's normal procedure and we suggest having them come back.


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[Ed Devinney]

Thanks to you both. The polishers applied H&Cs Lithium Protective Finish for stain resistance - which the product data sheet claims it does. I guess I just don't buy that it'll be effective by itself.

 

[Northislander]

my residential floor was ground down to #1500. A guy we've worked beside for the last twenty years did the work he did add some kind of sealer in the process i have no idea what he used but he is someone i trust and recommend all the time. From my experience living with the floor, "stains" for instance wine if wiped up right away no staining evident if not wiped up right away it will stain but seems to fade and go away over time. Floor was poured in 2008 and ground 2010 so 7 years of use and abuse this is a recreational home where we track sand in all the time no removal of shoes just sweep up periodically

 

[Radix2]

We're at the tail end of building a house with polished concrete floors. The floor finishers used Sherwin-William H&C lithium finish. The floors look good.

This weekend I wet-vac'd the finished concrete with plain water, and noticed that the concrete absorbs water. This makes me wonder how the floor will resist staining - if water is absorbed, it seems reasonable that a glass of wine will be absorbed, too, and leave a permanent stain.

Concrete experts: am I right to be concerned? If so, what course of action do you think we should take?

You are correct - if it absorbs water it will absorb stains

perhaps a few more coats of the sealer is all it will take.

 

[Ed Devinney]

I talked with an old friend who makes and installs a lot of his own tile as floors. He swears by Future Floor Finish (now Pledge Multi Surface Finish), which is a mop-on acrylic. It's not a forever product - you're expected to strip it every 8 applications or so. We had no problems with it on a floor he made for our last house. Figuring that tile is a harder case than concrete, I did an experiment today.

Last night I put two coats of Future on a small area of the floor in a closet. Today I put down spoonfuls of red wine, olive oil, and coffee side by side so that one set was on the H&C sealed floor, and one set on the waxed side. Let them set for an hour, then gently wiped the liquids off with a paper town and cleaned the remainder with a damp sponge.

Results are in the pix. After drying there's very little to be seen on the Future/Pledge side (RH). I don't know what the H&C Lithium Protective Finish thinks it's protecting, but it did a terrible job.

 

[Armorpoxy]

Hi,
We have used a mop on product called Iron Stone which is an industrial grade product that may work well for you. We may have an open container from a job in the shop (will need to check on Monday). Please send us an email requesting a sample and we will see if we have for your closet test lab! It's made by Sealed Air Industrial group, and has been specified on Jobs we have installed.

https://sealedair.com/diversey-care/diversey-care-products/iron-stonetmmc-acrylic-seal

 

[Ed Devinney]

Sounds like fun, email on the way!

 

[Garage Flooring]

I talked with an old friend who makes and installs a lot of his own tile as floors. He swears by Future Floor Finish (now Pledge Multi Surface Finish), which is a mop-on acrylic. It's not a forever product - you're expected to strip it every 8 applications or so. We had no problems with it on a floor he made for our last house. Figuring that tile is a harder case than concrete, I did an experiment today.

Last night I put two coats of Future on a small area of the floor in a closet. Today I put down spoonfuls of red wine, olive oil, and coffee side by side so that one set was on the H&C sealed floor, and one set on the waxed side. Let them set for an hour, then gently wiped the liquids off with a paper town and cleaned the remainder with a damp sponge.

Results are in the pix. After drying there's very little to be seen on the Future/Pledge side (RH). I don't know what the H&C Lithium Protective Finish thinks it's protecting, but it did a terrible job.

Just to be fair here.... Do they have a wait time before full effectiveness is achieved. Many products do

 

[Radix2]

Just to be fair here.... Do they have a wait time before full effectiveness is achieved. Many products do

What do you think about additional coats of the lithium product? Does that improve their effectiveness ?


I assume the lithium content makes it a densifier?

Is a seperate stain block of some kind needed with these sorts of products?

Just trying to better understand the roles of the various treatments.

 

[Ed Devinney]

Just to be fair here.... Do they have a wait time before full effectiveness is achieved. Many products do

The docs dont mention a waiting period, and it's been about 6-8 weeks between application and test.

 

[Garage Flooring]

What do you think about additional coats of the lithium product? Does that improve their effectiveness ?


I assume the lithium content makes it a densifier?

Is a seperate stain block of some kind needed with these sorts of products?

Just trying to better understand the roles of the various treatments.

I am going to stay away from commenting on other peoples product lines so to speak and talk in more general terms.

There are times where multiple applications of a densifier makes sense. Often you are simply diluting and applying two coats in a grind and polish type application.

Generally speaking, the best method is to use a densifier and allow it to do its work. Then go back with at least two, wet on wet, applications of the appropriate sealant.

If I am doing a garage I am going to use TL37 (once often half strength) and 8505 (twice) or 8510 (twice) because I know I am going to have oil stains in the garage.

If I am doing a sidewalk I am going to either do minimal TL39 once or TL021 diluted and applied twice.

For a driveway.... None of my cars leaks, assuming they are parked in the garage I am going to go with a densifier and TL021. If I park in the driveway or I have a car that leaks I am going to do a densifier and 8505 or 8510

The docs dont mention a waiting period, and it's been about 6-8 weeks between application and test.

6-8 Weeks is certainly sufficient.

 

[Ed Devinney]

All I know about commercial floors is that I see people regularly applying some sort of a topcoat. The H&C product is probably fine for what it's used for in the polishing process, with the expectation that it's not going to be the only thing on the surface of the concrete. I'm OK with that.

If I am doing a garage I am going to use TL37 (once often half strength) and 8505 (twice) or 8510 (twice) because I know I am going to have oil stains in the garage.

Thanks to much advice here I'm in the middle of this very recipe for the garage - densifier last week, and I'll apply the 8505 tomorrow

 

[Garage Flooring]

All I know about commercial floors is that I see people regularly applying some sort of a topcoat. The H&C product is probably fine for what it's used for in the polishing process, with the expectation that it's not going to be the only thing on the surface of the concrete. I'm OK with that.



Thanks to much advice here I'm in the middle of this very recipe for the garage - densifier last week, and I'll apply the 8505 tomorrow

The key to the 8505 application is no to over-apply. Keep a lambs wool roller handy just in case, but only spray on what will soak in

 

[Ed Devinney]

Thanks for the recommendation, Justin. The roller was key.

Armorpoxy was kind enough to send quite a large sample of Sealed Air/Diversey/Butcher's Iron Stone, so I applied it per instructions in 2 coats and let dry overnight. Once again, a spoonful of wine, olive oil, and coffee were allowed to sit for an hour, then gently wiped with a damp paper towel and cleaned up with warm water and a sponge.

Nice results from Iron Stone. Less moisture seems to have migrated through to the concrete than with the Pledge/Future, and it seemed more resistant to abrasion when tested with the scotchbrite side of the sponge. It's easier to find than the Pledge product and substantially less expensive - I think we have a winner!

 

[SunsetsAndFriends]

...

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

A saturating coat of densifier before you apply any guard product is key. Most guards are permeable, allowing moisture to move in both directions, the densifier is your last defense.

This permeability is why many people go with high performing coatings that are immune to these issues.


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