Ugh, Grainger and their disposable Dayton tools

[DougWil]

Picked up another air compressor, Dayton Speedaire from the late 70s.
Ran but very slow air buildup, had a 5hp Baldor single phase motor, so for $50 I couldn't go too far wrong.

Anyways, the pump is a V twin Japanese made, apparently only made for Grainger back in the day, 3Z960. No parts available from Grainger or any other air compressor parts supplier that I have tried.

Criminal, I tore it down to find out what is wrong with it. Absolutely beautiful machine work. Alum rods with inserts, perfect bores, tapered roller bearings...and not repairable.

Had a bad reed valve, probably could use a hone and new rings, instead into the scrap pile.
I went through this on a Dayton bandsaw a few years back, same story.

 

[Stooge]

Disposable still falls into the description for a 40year old compressor that you paid $50 for? Sounds like a pretty good service life to me

 

[DougWil]

Disposable still falls into the description for a 40year old compressor that you paid $50 for? Sounds like a pretty good service life to me

The pump apparently hasn't had any parts available for many years, coincidentally this compressor has been sitting for many years.

Regardless, other compressor manufacturers have parts going back way before that.
And it isn't like compressor technology has really advanced in 40 years, so why should it be scrap?

 

[sberry]

Find that guy that sold it to you for 50$,,, I want to,,, hire him.

 

[ishiboo]

Disposable still falls into the description for a 40year old compressor that you paid $50 for? Sounds like a pretty good service life to me

Lol, no kidding.

OP - did you contact Meiji and see if they still have parts for it?

 

[American Locomotive]

It literally only took me about 45 seconds of googling to find that the OEM of that particular pump is the Japanese Meiji company. Specifically, that pump is the Meiji BT-55C, and the company still appears to be in business.

As far as being "disposable", as mentioned, it's a ~40 year old compressor that Grainger stopped offering probably 20+ years ago. It likely didn't sell very well (hence them discontinuing it) and there was likely little demand for parts.

Plus, just because the reed valve is broken doesn't mean it's not repairable. You likely could have gotten it serviceable by drilling out the rivet, and replacing the reed valve with piece of feeler-gauge.

 

[Gmonkee]

Change the pump to a more commercial model and move on?

Why battle with stuff like that?

 

[sberry]

I agree about fixing the part, its got to be something one is willing to do and take a chance on with obsolete equipment. If it looks good fix it, do not bother with rings and honing. May have to make a gasket, can use the old one too if it isn't broke.
We fixed an old tractor engine a while back, was froze and stuck. Had to heat the top of the pistons with a torch to unseized them, ground one valve that was leaking, cleaned it, used old head gasket, started right up.

 

[SuperCat]

Good for you for giving this project a try, too much good, usable stuff ends up in the dump when it could be repaired. Unfortunately, a lot of stuff can't be repaired, but there is only one way to find out: tear it down and find out what is going on inside. You are the example that a lot of young people need to see. You rock!

 

[Stooge]

^ i think you may be over romanticizing this as far as an "example of what the young peole need to see"

-bought an old compressor for cheap
-figured out it was broken
-seemingly gave up quickly as someone stated they found the oem within a matter of seconds
- threw it away
- complained on the internet

Or maybe this is the example "young people" are using

 

[DougWil]

Change the pump to a more commercial model and move on?

Why battle with stuff like that?

I don't even need the pump, I have several American compressors.
The point is the wastefulness of producing stuff that becomes scrap or land fill because of a lack of parts.
I find the level of waste in this country offensive.
I can't imagine the raw materials, mining, energy, machine work, transportation etc, that went into producing something like this pump.
Even the connecting rods are serial numbered.
Needs a gasket,,,,, throw it in the dumps.

It literally only took me about 45 seconds of googling to find that the OEM of that particular pump is the Japanese Meiji company. Specifically, that pump is the Meiji BT-55C, and the company still appears to be in business.

Thanks, you must have better Google foo then I.
I have emailed them.

Good for you for giving this project a try, too much good, usable stuff ends up in the dump when it could be repaired. Unfortunately, a lot of stuff can't be repaired, but there is only one way to find out: tear it down and find out what is going on inside. You are the example that a lot of young people need to see. You rock!

Thanks! You understand where I am coming from, it is absurd that everything gets thrown in the dumps simply because of something minor problem.

 

[DougWil]

^ i think you may be over romanticizing this as far as an "example of what the young peole need to see"

-bought an old compressor for cheap
-figured out it was broken
-seemingly gave up quickly as someone stated they found the oem within a matter of seconds
- threw it away
- complained on the internet

Or maybe this is the example "young people" are using

2 out of 5, that isn't very good shooting.

 

[American Locomotive]

I don't even need the pump, I have several American compressors.
The point is the wastefulness of producing stuff that becomes scrap or land fill because of a lack of parts.
I find the level of waste in this country offensive.
I can't imagine the raw materials, mining, energy, machine work, transportation etc, that went into producing something like this pump.
Even the connecting rods are serial numbered.
Needs a gasket,,,,, throw it in the dumps.

I get what you're saying, but out of all the things to complain about being wasteful, this is really not one of them. It's an obscure 40 year old compressor that hasn't been sold in the U.S. market for decades.

It's really quite reasonable to expect parts to be unavailable. It's not like IR or Quincy who have huge install bases and have been selling variations of the same pumps for the past 70 years.

 

[mikegt4]

I would think that Grainger would find it "wasteful" to keep repair parts on a shelf for decades so that you could repair an old obsolete pump at your convenience. What you wasted was $50 unless of course you are willing to put some effort into finding parts or better yet make your own. A reed valve is not hard to make and rings are available in just about every size and configuration.

 

[sberry]

I get what you're saying, but out of all the things to complain about being wasteful, this is really not one of them. It's an obscure 40 year old compressor that hasn't been sold in the U.S. market for decades.

It's really quite reasonable to expect parts to be unavailable. It's not like IR or Quincy who have huge install bases and have been selling variations of the same pumps for the past 70 years.

I got agree with this. There is no shortage of junk and no reason for a company to make and keep stock to sooth a compusive hoarders feelings. This is low on the world's waste chains, we shoot off million dollar rockets in to a shithole dessert every day, millions of gallons of fuel flushed in 1 ton diesel grocery getters, millions of wasted gallons every day and the world should hinge on a ************* broken compressor a guy doesn't even need cause he can't bear to see it go to the recycle can where it belongs. I am not shedding tears over it.

 

[American Locomotive]

...but also don't get me wrong. I'm not saying it's a bad compressor/pump and not worth fixing it (I think it probably is if you can get the parts for a reasonable cost, or have the ability to make your own). But I definitely wouldn't expect repairs to be easy on an obscure piece of equipment like this.

 

[Gmonkee]

It's not waste.

Its spare parts for another should anybody want to keep one alive longer.

Car makers keep spares for ten years or so. After that they want you to buy a newer model because new sales keep them alive. Not sales of parts for a beat up old car.

It is not unreasonable for every other consumer good to be the same.

 

[finn]

If it's really important for you to save a broken 40 year old compressor, I'm sure you could reverse engineer the broken parts and have a job shop make a short run of a hundred or so parts which you can then market as replacement parts to keep more of these obsolete compressors in service.

I'm also sure that in ten years you'll have at least 96 of your inventory still sitting on the shelf waiting for a customer to request spares.

Does' make economic sense for you to invest in the inventory and storage costs? Doesn't make sense for Grainger, either.

 

[DougWil]

You guys are missing the point.

Grainger installs Champion pumps on some of their compressors, the pumps that Champion has made forever and has parts for, and even aftermarket parts.
Ditto all the other well known US brands.

Grainger's house Dayton brand are sold and discontinued constantly and parts are unobtainable. I have gone through this before with other Dayton tools.
Hence the topic, Grainger and their disposable tools.

It's not waste.

Its spare parts for another should anybody want to keep one alive longer.

Car makers keep spares for ten years or so. After that they want you to buy a newer model because new sales keep them alive. Not sales of parts for a beat up old car.

It is not unreasonable for every other consumer good to be the same.

The constant conveyor belt of purchasing consumer level products which plummet in value and are disposed of is why most people in the US have no net worth.
Autos are a perfect example, just when they are paid off, they are almost worthless and it is back on the payment treadmill for the next car. LOL

It certainly makes sense as a seller of such, 'what monthly payment can you manage', but as a buyer, constantly buying plummeting assets that retain zero value is nuts.

 

[DougWil]

I got agree with this. There is no shortage of junk and no reason for a company to make and keep stock to sooth a compusive hoarders feelings. This is low on the world's waste chains, we shoot off million dollar rockets in to a shithole dessert every day, millions of gallons of fuel flushed in 1 ton diesel grocery getters, millions of wasted gallons every day and the world should hinge on a ************* broken compressor a guy doesn't even need cause he can't bear to see it go to the recycle can where it belongs. I am not shedding tears over it.

LOL, my aren't you overly dramatic.:

My interweb analyzed compulsions aside , I assure you that I won't be shedding any tears should this end up in the recycle can, nor did I think world peace was going to blossom should it be revived.

 

[WittHay]

My opinion is that, second tier shop equipment is sold to a business for a cheaper price. Parts availability 20 years down the road is not even a consideration.

Examples of this are Napa 10 ton Floor Jacks, Arcan 50 ton Hydraulic Presses, Dayton 5hp Air Compressors. All sorts of Drill Presses, Band Saws, Pressure Washers. The buyer realizes parts might not be available 5 years after purchase, never mind 35 years.

 

[Gmonkee]

The plummeting value treadmill is a form of crazy. But consider the alternative.

We would have vehicles and appliances that lasted two lifetimes but were slower, heavier and with less features that make them 'perfect' for the time they were made.

Times change and needs change, few use coal stoves that needed an hour to get to temp, nor is coal as easily found now. Modern units are ready in minutes and use currently common fuel sources. Transport is another area the changes benefit. Less fuel used to move the same load plus it meets government regulation on emissions. Or should we have stuck with steam trains? Those were durable if high maintenance.

As mentioned the economy needs movement. Factory workers need to make stuff that sells or the jobs go away.
There is a balance point. It is hard to stay on that balance too.

Not good to be living like it is 1890 nor good to be replacing everything every couple of months.

OP, you make a valid point but balance it with a bigger reality of the big picture. Low end disposable stuff has a place as well as durable and repairable goods.
If price point could not be met its possible that many people and places would not be as well equipped nor capable of doing what they can.

We need top end industrial as well as HF grade stuff to satisfy wider ranges of consumers.

 

[sberry]

Saving broke stuff is a slow way to build "net worth". Most wealthy people i know do not have a bunch of old junk.
They don't buy this for 50, they sell it.

 

[DougWil]

The plummeting value treadmill is a form of crazy. But consider the alternative.

Only that is where we are at.
The nation has 20 trillion of debt and what capital assets do we have to show for it?
Not much, worn out roads, bridges and infrastructure.

As individuals most have zero net worth or close to it.
And what to they have to show for a lifetime of work?
Not much, a car on credit and a bunch of consumer junk that is valueless or soon will be.

 

[DougWil]

Saving broke stuff is a slow way to build "net worth". Most wealthy people i know do not have a bunch of old junk.
They don't buy this for 50, they sell it.

Most wealthy make their money in banking/finance/or like,,, keeping the dangling carrot in front of the poor debt slave on the treadmill.

Doubtful many get their hands dirty, have ever owned a compressor or hang out in Garage Journal.


But the wealth I am referring to is the classic economic version.
You don't acquire wealth or store wealth in quickly depreciating assets.
But this has been encouraged by the tax code.

 

[sberry]

There is a show called name that tune and they bet on how many notes it takes to identify a song. I have been at forums a while, I can spot a compulsive hoarer in 3 posts or so.

 

[sberry]

When I fug off I really do, do absolutely nothing. But I have built a lot of assets with my hands. At a point when I didn't have cash I fixed a lot of equipment. I fixed things I needed and most of the time I put a real value on it, yes I didn't take in 3 or 400 for a couple days work but fabricated a plow frame I needed that cost 400 and in some cases it was more custom. A sandblaster that cost 800 for a couple days work etc. I have lost some on this, it took a while to learn when its worth it or not. I still make this mistake and why I am so acutely aware of it when it comes to things on this forum.
Giving 50 for something broke cause its too good to go to the scrap is almost a sure bet it isn't, I see a lot of poor follow this logic and several on this forum do it too. They toss good after bad. Most of this stuff still doesn't work despite it being a deal too good to pass up. I got a couple good friends in this position and cant work with them, very smart people too,,, just a warped sense of value with lots invested in stuff no one wants.
The statement,,, I have several good pumps but the sense of loss over this one is overwhelming says it all.

 

[Gmonkee]

You enter the world with nothing. Then soneone teaches you a set of values and ideals. If lucky you go 70 odd years and get to pass those values and ideals to another generation or two.

What you had, held, did for a living is all minor details in this game. What you did or owned was used and mostly used up along the way of hopefully preparing a better world for the kids coming to replace you.

And you will die taking nothing with you.

My predecessors left little material goods but what I did get from them I now teach my son. So he can teach his how to live right, hopefully.

The possesions are just tools we use along the way, the land just the place we did it.

Your legacy is how your kids raise the grandkids. If any of you gets passed to them.

Stuff will come and go, use it now or get it out of the way of progress. Work for what really matters.

 

[Infinia]

One reason I used to buy durable goods at Sears, I knew I had had better odds of finding parts / service later on than brand X. There used to be Sears Service Center 5 mi. from my place I could get parts same day, but everything is online / shipped now.

 

[DougWil]

There is a show called name that tune and they bet on how many notes it takes to identify a song. I have been at forums a while, I can spot a compulsive hoarer in 3 posts or so.

So you claim Dr. Phil, but you can't even spell hoarder.

I buy things and use them, if I don't, I sell them or dispose of them.
Everything I have works, or is put into working order in a timely manner.
I have a fully equipped shop, lathe, 2 mills, drill/mill, band saws, surface grinder, tool and cutter grinder, hydraulic presses, yada,yada,, and most all of it came at very low cost and I refurbished. I like doing so.
Through that ability I have made a bit of money buying and selling, and upgrading my shop.

But it is a hobby, not my day job.

No piles of stuff, no piles of projects that I am going to get to one day, etc...

Oh and Name that Tune was a TV show in the 50s, revived a couple of times since, but hasn't been around since the mid 80s.
So it is past tense, as is 'was' not 'is',, like my Dayton pump.

So all interwebs analysis, projections and poor grammar aside, you are wrong.

I have emailed the manufacturer in Japan, if parts are not available and reasonable in cost. It goes away, simple as that.

 

[sberry]

Maybe we are all wrong. We love pictures. I am all for repair and refurb. I am with you doing it debt free too, I think that is a good plan but 20 trillion didn't come because people tossed a few things in the scrap.

 

[Infinia]

if parts are not available and reasonable in cost. It goes away, simple as that.

American Pickers
That's essentially what the previous owner had you do for him.: Getting rid of a large iron machine at the dump would cost someone considering hauling and dump fees, oh bout 50 bucks .. only instead he profited by the same amount.

 

[sk farmer]

this thread is funny. op buys a ****** used compressor for 50 dolllars , knows it is a ****** compressor, takes it apart to prove that it is a shittty compressor and then ******* about the fact that it is a ****** compressor. he then proceeds to complain about the company who sold it 40 years ago for selling a ****** compressor. if that is not enough this ****** compressor made forty years ago is the shining example of all that is wrong with our country.

that is one amazing ****** compressor.............

throw the effer in the recycle bin and be done with it.

 

[SteveH-CO]

There was never a better place than here for a link to the Oliver Wendell Holmes poem 'The Deacon's One Hoss Shay'. It's a story about a piece of equipment engineered to fail in a certain way. Be patient and read it all the way through!

http://holyjoe.org/poetry/holmes1.htm

 

[notlob]

You guys are missing the point.

Nope. I think we get your point. All manufacturers and distributors of all durable goods, even those of modest cost and/or made in small numbers, must continue to make/stock complete inventories of all replacement parts for at least 50 years or, perhaps, for all time.

The constant conveyor belt of purchasing consumer level products which plummet in value and are disposed of is why most people in the US have no net worth.

What 'level' of products do think a consumer should purchase? Your answer to this purported dearth of net worth is that, e.g, all tool buyers should purchase snap on tools?
By the way, the net worth of the average American is nowhere close to zero. Perhaps you are referencing anecdotal evidence based on people you know?

SOURCE: U.S. CENSUS BUREAU
Certainly the average figures set forth in the above are skewed positively by those few that have enormous net worth (the upper .5 percenters), however, to suggest that most Americans have no net worth is a great exaggeration.

It certainly makes sense as a seller of such, 'what monthly payment can you manage', but as a buyer, constantly buying plummeting assets that retain zero value is nuts.

So why did you buy this used "consumer level" compressor only to come here and whine about your "nutty" purchase?

 

[sberry]

I have holders made on carts and tractors, they are for starting fluid and spray cans. Its a losing battle, I often find a 3 or 5 dollar can rolling around in the tool box and a 10 cent returnable pop or beer can someone picked up in its place,,,, but,,,,, but,,, its got a 10 cent deposit on it.

 

[notlob]

There was never a better place than here for a link to the Oliver Wendell Holmes poem 'The Deacon's One Hoss Shay'. It's a story about a piece of equipment engineered to fail in a certain way. Be patient and read it all the way through!

http://holyjoe.org/poetry/holmes1.htm

Thanks for the link!

Excerpt:

"Little of all we value here
Wakes on the morn of its hundreth year
Without both feeling and looking queer.
In fact, there’s nothing that keeps its youth,
So far as I know, but a tree and truth."

 

[DougWil]

By the way, the net worth of the average American is nowhere close to zero. Perhaps you are referencing anecdotal evidence based on people you know?

Do you realize that the prime time to be productive and save is those 2 brackets 45-64 and the ave net worth is about $100K for a lifetime of working.

$100K isn't much. A year or two out of work, or an illness and it is gone.

The median American adult's net worth is $38K, far lower than most 1st world countries.

The majority of Americans may be financially and economically illiterate. Many have nothing, and likely will never have anything. Over 65% of American adults have a net worth under $100,000. In Australia, over 65% of all adults have a net worth exceeding $100,000.

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/americans-have-relatively-poor-net-wealth-cm257517

 

[Lassen Forge]

Most companies couldn't afford to keep spare parts for a unit for 40 years, as it would be cost prohibitive, unless that same part was used somewhere else in the cycle.

Back when I was into vintage Honda motorcycles in a big way, I would go to the dealer, ask them to please order me a whatever I needed, and with rare exception, start the 4 month wait for Honda to make the part and ship it to the USA. They used to do it, and it was very cool. But you had to pay for it. Had the same experience with a vintage Mercedes - If they didn't have it there, in LA, or in New Jersey, they'd put in a request in Germany. If no one had it, they'd make it.

Kept that car on the road much longer than anticipated... and that (along with how surprisingly easy they were to work on) *did* make me a fangirl of their cars for years.

 

[honcho]

In a former life, I was involved in the design and acquisition of equipment for the military. In order to speed up the process of getting newer technologies to the field, we often bypassed establishing deep logistics chains to save time and money. One example that sticks in my head is a repair module for a radio that cost about $10k each. It was a throwaway. Yes, it could have been repaired but that means that we would have had to have stocked parts, had trained technicians, a repair facility and a process for getting the faulty modules to the repair facility. It was cheaper to buy new modules and throw them away when they broke. It irks me that we live in a throwaway world but the economics for a throw away economy are very compelling in so many areas.

Also, I agree with many of the other posters that with a little research, creativity and elbow grease to repair the fault, there was no reason for the compressor to hit the scrap pile.