30 amp Receptacle

[Sarki]

Got a dedicated 30 amp receptacle mounted up near ceiling which was used for an electric heater. Thermostat mounted lower on wall controlled heater. Had a 3 prong dryer plug on heater and plugged into receptacle, no issues.
Fast forward.......installed propane furnace so no longer using 30 amp receptacle.
I want to now use this 30 amp receptacle for a lift. Will the thermostat present a problem? Do I need to remove it or disconnect it somehow.
Not much of an electrician so asking those who may point me in the right direction.

 

[sberry]

It may work but you don't need it and not sure how it's wired? But a dryer recept isn't really the right one if it's 3 wire. The wire for the circuit will be fine. Change the outlet or hard wire it.

 

[Sarki]

Here is a picture of the receptacle. My understanding is that the receptacle is a standard 30 amp receptacle and not specifically a dryer receptacle.
My concern is will the fact that a thermostat is wired to the circuit present a problem for the lift that will now plug into this receptacle?

 

[nsula_country]

I assume the thermostat is of the "line voltage" type. Power should go to tstat LINE terminals then the LOAD terminals to the heater receptacle.

With this said, the tstat should be removed from the circuit. Could be as simple as removing the tstat and wire nutting the leads together.

CT

 

[sberry]

That is a dryer recept, it is actually wired different than the correct one. If it is used would need a jumper wire from the center ploe to any metal enclosure it is installed in. It wasn't the correct one for the heater.

 

[Sarki]

I assume the thermostat is of the "line voltage" type. Power should go to tstat LINE terminals then the LOAD terminals to the heater receptacle.

With this said, the tstat should be removed from the circuit. Could be as simple as removing the tstat and wire nutting the leads together.

CT

Yeah, more I think about it best solution is remove thermostat and replace with switch. This way I have ability to shut power to lift as well.

 

[nsula_country]

Yeah, more I think about it best solution is remove thermostat and replace with switch. This way I have ability to shut power to lift as well.

If you go that route, you will need a 2 pole switch. It will also provide a means to disconnect power to the lift. Hardwire instead of receptacle would be my preferred choice.

CT

 

[sberry]

How is the t stat wired? You need a 30a switch and up rated. The outlet is designed for multi voltage appliances of old. It is a 3 wire 3 pole. The hoist is a 2 wire 3 pole grounding and may not even come with a plug.

 

[Norcal]

How is the t stat wired? You need a 30a switch and up rated. The outlet is designed for multi voltage appliances of old. It is a 3 wire 3 pole. The hoist is a 2 wire 3 pole grounding and may not even come with a plug.

The hoist is 3 wire 2 pole.

 

[sberry]

Whoops, yes, worded it wrong.

 

[pattenp]

Your existing outlet is a 10-30 125/250V non-grounded, used under old code. For the lift if using that outlet point you need to use a 6-30 250V outlet and plug. But as suggested I would hardwire it to that outlet box and if possible use a 30A double pole switch in the thermostat box.

 

[Sarki]

Thanks for pointing out about the old style receptacle, didn't realize that.
Much appreciate the heads-up on swapping out receptacle and plug with proper 6-30 250V pieces.....will do.
What is advantage of hardwiring lift as I wanted option to move it around a bit if needed. Maybe I need to reconsider that, please explain.
Is hardwiring that much safer than using proper plug and outlet?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Whats the HP rating on the motor?

 

[Sarki]

Whats the HP rating on the motor?

According to manufacturer.....
2 1/2 HP motor.
Lift shipped with 8-10" pigtail, 2 hot & 1 ground wires.

 

[teamextreme]

Not a problem, you just have to use your lift only when it's cold out.

 

[Sarki]

Not a problem, you just have to use your lift only when it's cold out.

Or install it in my walk-in freezer

 

[wyliesdiesels]

According to manufacturer.....
2 1/2 HP motor.
Lift shipped with 8-10" pigtail, 2 hot & 1 ground wires.

Ok this is what i would do.

Swap the outlet and plug with a 6-30r and p that is rated for at least 2.5hp.

Then use either a non fused disconnect such as an AC pull out disconnect

Or, if u have to have a snap switch for a disconnect, then use a leviton ms-302 or similar...

 

[Sarki]

Ok hoping this is the last question I got to bother you guys with but my electrical experience is limited and not wanting to screw this up.
Picked up the recommended plug (6-30P) and receptacle (6-30R), both rated for 250V.
Also picked up 30A double pole switch (Leviton 3032) but not so sure it is the correct one as I now see on rear of switch it says 2 HP max and according to Lift manufacturer the lift motor is 2 1/2HP.
Lift motor ships with 8-10" pigtail. I will need to extend or replace the pigtail as the receptacle will be mounted up high on the wall about 6-8' away so I want to have total cord of about 12' going from motor so I have option of moving lift a bit.
How do I extend or replace the pigtail so I get 12' +/- and with what cord do I use. I didn't see anything at local hardware store and nobody with enough knowledge there to point me in right direction.
Thanks again!

 

[cort]

Ok hoping this is the last question I got to bother you guys with but my electrical experience is limited and not wanting to screw this up.
Picked up the recommended plug (6-30P) and receptacle (6-30R), both rated for 250V.
Also picked up 30A double pole switch (Leviton 3032) but not so sure it is the correct one as I now see on rear of switch it says 2 HP max and according to Lift manufacturer the lift motor is 2 1/2HP.
Lift motor ships with 8-10" pigtail. I will need to extend or replace the pigtail as the receptacle will be mounted up high on the wall about 6-8' away so I want to have total cord of about 12' going from motor so I have option of moving lift a bit.
How do I extend or replace the pigtail so I get 12' +/- and with what cord do I use. I didn't see anything at local hardware store and nobody with enough knowledge there to point me in right direction.
Thanks again!

If you are not making/breaking contact with the switch while the motor is running, I suspect your 30A/250V 2HP switch will be fine, but for those of us who love over engineering, this Leviton switch might be a better solution.

Replace the short segment of pigtail cable with a new, longer piece of cable. You will need to open whatever box or cover where the pigtail terminates to see how to replace it. Alternatively, you could put a plug on the pigtail, and then make a heavy duty extension cord, but I suspect this is not a cost effective solution. Here is a popular vendor for cable by the foot.

 

[Sarki]

Thanks Cort as I would rather do exactly like you suggested and replace short pigtail with longer 12-15' cord, install 6-30P to end and plug directly into 6-30R receptacle.
That link for the 10 gauge 3 wire is perfect as what I think I need.

 

[Sarki]

As for the MS302 switch, a few others recommended same one. I picked the MS303 as they didn't have the 302 in stock and I didn't realize the difference in HP rating.
I'll shop around for the MS302 and see what I find.
Thanks to all for helping out!

 

[Sarki]

Ok, so another question.
Any reason I can't just remove the thermostat on this 30 amp line and use wire nuts, black to black white to white.....button it all up and end of discussion?
Not against throwing a switch in if that is the 'safer' way to go but need to track one down, not a big deal.

 

[sberry]

If the breaker is local can use it as disconnecting means, a plug is also legal as a service safety disconnect.

 

[Sarki]

Meant to include these pictures of the wiring to the thermostat. Breaker/service panel is nearby on wall, maybe 6' away.
Last picture is the 30 amp switch I picked up, MS-303 instead of MS-302. Difference appears to be the 302 is rated for 2 1/2HP and the 303 for only 2 HP.
Motor on lift is 2 1/2HP but not intending to be turning switch on or off when operating lift.

 

[Sarki]

If I install this MS-303 switch my understanding is both black wires on one side of switch and both white wires on the other opposite side.....correct?

 

[sberry]

You want to break both poles. In this case its the reds and the blacks. Is this a 3 wire cable, black, red and white, no ground wire?

 

[Alchymist]

You want to break both poles. In this case its the reds and the blacks. Is this a 3 wire cable, black, red and white, no ground wire?

I see a bare ground wire in the first picture.

 

[Sarki]

I see a bare ground wire in the first picture.

I believe the 30 amp circuit is wired with 10/2 as it has a black, white and copper ground. The red wires you see were part of the thermostat which I am removing and looking to replace with a 30 amp double pole switch (MS-303).
I think what I wrote above was incorrect in terms of proper wiring of the 30 amp switch. I believe I should have a white and black on one side and a black and white of the other line on the opposite side.
For those with more smarts than me please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[cort]

I believe the 30 amp circuit is wired with 10/2 as it has a black, white and copper ground. The red wires you see were part of the thermostat which I am removing and looking to replace with a 30 amp double pole switch (MS-303).
I think what I wrote above was incorrect in terms of proper wiring of the 30 amp switch. I believe I should have a white and black on one side and a black and white of the other line on the opposite side.
For those with more smarts than me please correct me if I'm wrong.

You are correct. On your switch, screw colors are paired, not left/right sides. Black screws are one leg, copper screws are another leg. If you look at the back of the switch carefully, the screws are also usually labeled. Like L1/T1 and L2/T2. Be consistent about which color you pair. It doesn't matter if you put white on copper or black, but usually black wire goes to black screws. Just be consistent about the colors. If you have any questions, Leviton posts wiring guides on their web page.

 

[sberry]

My mistake for sure, wasn't paying attn.

 

[Sarki]

Figured I'd snap a couple more pictures to confirm I'm not going to burn my shack down or light myself up before flipping breaker back on.
Below is how I wired the switch.......both black wires (one from incoming breaker and other from outgoing to receptacle) wired to the black screws and both white wires to the copper screws on the switch.
Just trying to get past my ignorance and fear of wiring......one small step at a time!

 

[wyliesdiesels]

As for the MS302 switch, a few others recommended same one. I picked the MS303 as they didn't have the 302 in stock and I didn't realize the difference in HP rating.
I'll shop around for the MS302 and see what I find.
Thanks to all for helping out!

I think youre reading the wrong ratings.

The 302 is rated for 2HP @ 120v and 5HP @ 240v.
The 303 is rated for 3.5HP @ 120v and 7.5HP @ 240v.

Ok, so another question.
Any reason I can't just remove the thermostat on this 30 amp line and use wire nuts, black to black white to white.....button it all up and end of discussion?
Not against throwing a switch in if that is the 'safer' way to go but need to track one down, not a big deal.

If the breaker panel is within sight of and not more than 50' away from the lift then u dont need any local disconnect at all.

Meant to include these pictures of the wiring to the thermostat. Breaker/service panel is nearby on wall, maybe 6' away.
Last picture is the 30 amp switch I picked up, MS-303 instead of MS-302. Difference appears to be the 302 is rated for 2 1/2HP and the 303 for only 2 HP.
Motor on lift is 2 1/2HP but not intending to be turning switch on or off when operating lift.

IF that is the case(6' away) then no disconnect required.

Check the HP ratings on the switches again and see above comment in bold.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Figured I'd snap a couple more pictures to confirm I'm not going to burn my shack down or light myself up before flipping breaker back on.
Below is how I wired the switch.......both black wires (one from incoming breaker and other from outgoing to receptacle) wired to the black screws and both white wires to the copper screws on the switch.
Just trying to get past my ignorance and fear of wiring......one small step at a time!

The wiring is correct.

however that leviton 3032 is rated max 2HP...

Since the breaker is nearby (6' and within sight) u dont need a local disconnect as the breaker can be used as the disconnect.

And the plug can also serve as the required disconnect as long as it rated for the proper HP.

 

[PoorOwner]

Figured I'd snap a couple more pictures to confirm I'm not going to burn my shack down or light myself up before flipping breaker back on.
Below is how I wired the switch.......both black wires (one from incoming breaker and other from outgoing to receptacle) wired to the black screws and both white wires to the copper screws on the switch.
Just trying to get past my ignorance and fear of wiring......one small step at a time!

The second pic shows you put the hook backwards. Generally you should wind it in the direction of tightening the screw. Like your other side

Also put a ground wire to the green screw since you have it.

Good idea for a shut off since bendpak was known to get their switches stuck and can't stop.

 

[Sarki]

Wylie-
In terms of distance from the panel the switch I was attempting to install is only 6' from service panel. Lift location which will be the only thing in this 30 amp line is maybe 20' - 25' from service panel.
Given above are you saying just eliminate the switch and wire nut black to black and white to white and be done?

 

[Sarki]

The second pic shows you put the hook backwards. Generally you should wind it in the direction of tightening the screw. Like your other side

Also put a ground wire to the green screw since you have it.

Good idea for a shut off since bendpak was known to get their switches stuck and can't stop.

None of the wires hooked on screws as 10 gauge and switch don't allow. This type of screw just insert wire and tighten down clamp.
Just really want to confirm I have the wiring in the correct positions for the switch.

 

[Alchymist]

None of the wires hooked on screws as 10 gauge and switch don't allow. This type of screw just insert wire and tighten down clamp.
Just really want to confirm I have the wiring in the correct positions for the switch.

If all else fails just take a test light or ohmmeter and confirm the switch terminals.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Wylie-
In terms of distance from the panel the switch I was attempting to install is only 6' from service panel. Lift location which will be the only thing in this 30 amp line is maybe 20' - 25' from service panel.
Given above are you saying just eliminate the switch and wire nut black to black and white to white and be done?

yes.

Since you are less than 50' and within sight of panel, breaker can act as disconnect. No need for switch.

Also, the plug on the cord is a disconnect as well as long as it is rated for at least the same HP as the motor.