Six Breaker Rule for Panel
- Thread starter BentBierz
- Start date
Radix2
Well-known member
I hope it didn't sound like that- it's just that you made no mention of your original issue with the wire as a problem, and Wylie seemed to not know why we were talking about splices, so I thought I should get your take on where that falls as a possible solution for you or why you rejected it or missed those suggestions.
Since you had the six operation issue correct from the start...wasn't sure you were getting anything out of that sidebar.
Sorry
Anton, the exact same wording in the 2014 NEC also
Orionrising
Well-known member
Hmm so does the six breaker thing apply if there is a disconnect in the adjacent panel? Ie a sub located next to the main panel....
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pattenp
Well-known member
No. As long as all the power in the building can be disconnected at the building by switching off 6 or less breakers at one location. So as long as the sub is killed by the main, and the sub is in the same building as the main, the sub is not limited to 6 breakers.
My Old Tools
Well-known member
Can you move the panel up or down to create more slack?
Personally, I would purchase a small junction box off ebay and install a power block in it ahead of the panel. Pull the conductors back to it and then run new conductors from the power block to the panel main breaker.
https://www.zoro.com/square-d-pwr-dist-block-175a-3p-1p-secndry-600vac-9080lba362101/i/G3506894/?gclid=CjwKEAjwoLfHBRD_jLW93remyAQSJABIygGpXeaQVw6xdPYYx3nAyNG7DoOqhP2xCv34-uGfWGPftRoCgpnw_wcB
That'll be the cheapest/easiest solution. Don't forget you will need to make a connection to the junction box with the Equipment Grounding Conductor.
If the sub panel were fed off of a cb in the main panel it would not be considered a disconnect in the sub.
If the second panel was supplied directly by the feeder, then the breaker in that panel could be considered one of the disconnects.
The six (max) disconnects need to be grouped closely together – think of a common trough where se conductors are tapped for each of the six loads.
This concept I believe originated to support multiple tenant situations in a single structure (apartments/offices/strip malls) where each has their own disconnect, metering and distribution panels, but fed from a single service drop/lateral from the POCO.
IMHO, it’s kind of a hack job to do this in other situations – residential, shops.
n20junkie
Well-known member
Most breaker panels are like ink jet printers. The panel is dirt cheap and they hope you fill it with their GFCI and AFCI breakers.
So with that, always get the BIG panel, because it's a pretty cheap and most come with a handful of breakers. . They are about $125 for a 20 slot and $160 for a 42 slot. Then you have a main disconnect and all the circuits you will ever need.
So with that, always get the BIG panel, because it's a pretty cheap and most come with a handful of breakers. . They are about $125 for a 20 slot and $160 for a 42 slot. Then you have a main disconnect and all the circuits you will ever need.
sberry
Banned
There is nothing wrong with feeding it from one panel to the other. Why fug around with a Jblock and some other ****, use the first panel as it is, nothing extra needed to add in between, use a breaker to feed the second. Its already in place. This thread has some ideas but a few brain farts too.
sberry
Banned
Its actually as good or better than fooling with some of these other schemes. lets the second panel be shut down for additional work locally.
It follows what Patten wrote, not a problem.
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If he has all the circuit space he needs in the first panel, installing a main breaker (and the modifications required to do so) would be a bit cheaper than adding a sub panel in a different location; especially, if the sub-panel is just for 20AT circuits.
sberry
Banned
If I am not mistaken this was suggested at a cost of 22$ just for for the block, not including an enclosure so he could extend some wire to change to a panel with a main. Another 6 or 8 space panel depending on brand runs about the same cost. Feel free to splain how this can be cheaper and easier than simply adding another cheap panel?
We do this work all the time, most of the ideas some of us give are the most practical, its from some experience. If I looked at some of these ideas after the fact would have to say,,, wtf, some of them may even be legal but its often just poor design, extra work for no gain. They make an 8 space panel in the same box as a 6 just for this purpose, he will lose 2 in the original to feed it but will have 8 in the new to make up for it and a couple additional more free, maybe more when its all done.
We do this work all the time, most of the ideas some of us give are the most practical, its from some experience. If I looked at some of these ideas after the fact would have to say,,, wtf, some of them may even be legal but its often just poor design, extra work for no gain. They make an 8 space panel in the same box as a 6 just for this purpose, he will lose 2 in the original to feed it but will have 8 in the new to make up for it and a couple additional more free, maybe more when its all done.
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I was thinking more the wire pull of #4/#6AWG 3W w/ ground across a building to a sub panel.
sberry
Banned
Sure, you can locate the 2nd panel anywhere you want. If some of the load is connected to the first the easiest way is a number 6 cable with a 60 feeding it. 6 is so common and ideal for this. I have wired service to a couple dozen garages over the years, most using a 60 to feed them and never,,, never had one tripped up. This included a couple that were busy and were auto shops with 5 hp comps on them.
I actually have 5 subs in mine, it really reduced the branch circuit wiring, let me have welder outlet at each, 4 of them are 20 space panels. Most are full. I ran 1 just for air comps.
I actually have 5 subs in mine, it really reduced the branch circuit wiring, let me have welder outlet at each, 4 of them are 20 space panels. Most are full. I ran 1 just for air comps.
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Thought I would give an update. I ended up just putting in a larger panel rather than putting in a sub panel. By the time I bought the sub and the #6 wire, ran conduit, etc. it was cheaper in effort/money to redo the panel. I did have to buy the following from my local City Electric (http://www.f4p-usa.com/wiring-connections/multi-tap-insulated-lugs/one-way-multi-tap-2-0) to extend the two hots coming into the box. I now have room to spare and can use all 1" breakers if I want instead of the 1/2". I have some 1/2" so will probably use them on some circuits though.
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sfanale
Well-known member
This thread was a pretty helpful discussion for me as I am going through a similar situation. I have a sub panel in a detached garage, but the panel is a "load center" with only main lugs, so I have to install a backfed 100Amp breaker as the main. I ran into the same issue, my feeder lines are too short to reach up to the top. Luckily I did a little reading of the included manual and it mentions, just flip the panel over... BINGO, now the main is at the bottom and my feeder lines are long enough to reach the "main".
I also would have the suggested the idea of sliding the panel up or down to provide more slack if you were set on keeping the existing panel. Upgrading to a bigger panel is of course the best option! Good luck!
I also would have the suggested the idea of sliding the panel up or down to provide more slack if you were set on keeping the existing panel. Upgrading to a bigger panel is of course the best option! Good luck!
Lightman
Well-known member
To cut PVC like that , I have used mason twine (especially dirty, used, mason twine) to saw
through the conduit, up to the wire then pull string out and back through other side of the
wire, then cut rest of the waythrough the conduit. No damage to the wire.
Try it on your bench some time with scrap pipe and wire.
through the conduit, up to the wire then pull string out and back through other side of the
wire, then cut rest of the waythrough the conduit. No damage to the wire.
Try it on your bench some time with scrap pipe and wire.
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