The VISES of Garage Journal

[Itsjustdirt]

I'm new to vises and just bought these. I know NOTHING about vises other than the fact they are good at holding stuff.

Can anyone tell me ANYTHING about these vises? What I should have paid? What they're worth? Also, I've heard people say "that vise was heavily abused".... Isn't that what they are for? Is there anything that shouldn't be done with the vise? Beat on something that's clamped in it? Can I use the shiny flat part as a surface to beat things on? Not trying to be funny, here to learn.

Record 6"

Inherited from Grandpa

different Record 6"

Record 8"

<a href="http://imgur.com/UwprUrw"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/UwprUrw.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

 

[Mr_P]

It would not surprise me if this is one of you guys from here selling this stuff.

Eye-candy in either case.......

https://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/tls/6081551128.html

 

[ALLFAST]

OCD,
I'll second Drives on being a super job Onan import(s) ! Thanks for the polishing tips. I'll try and experiment on my own pieces. ....Fine work there !

The blacksmith hoard is unbelievable.

Shawn

 

[jakemac]

Also, I've heard people say "that vise was heavily abused".... Isn't that what they are for? Is there anything that shouldn't be done with the vise? Beat on something that's clamped in it? Can I use the shiny flat part as a surface to beat things on? Not trying to be funny, here to learn.

First, welcome to the thread.
For some reason I can't see your pictures, so I can't comment on them.
I do like that you're saving your grandfather's vise. It means that he's always with you in the shop.

As to vise abuse.......
A vise is a tool like any other. Treat it right, and use it as intended, and it will last for generations. Your grandfather's care for his vise is a perfect example. It's still able to serve another generation+.

How much hard work a vise can tolerate is dependent on its construction. Some are specifically made for light duty, some are built to handle heavier use. Yes, you can hammer on any vise, but you need to keep in mind that it isn't an anvil. That is a different tool. Wailing away at it with a sledge hammer is a good way to spend time shopping for a new vise in the morning.

NEVER hammer the slide. If the slide deforms, it will wedge in the body and freeze up the vise.
You should try to develop a "feel" for any of your tools, so that you can recognize their limits.

The flat surface on the back of the vise, often called an anvil (and not on all vise's), is only for light work (no matter how heavily built). If you need an anvil, get an anvil or a piece of RR track. Once again, use the right tool for the job.

Some people use their vises to press bearings. Most vise's can't tolerate this for many uses. It can work in a pinch, but is not recommended. At best, the lateral stress can over-stress where the dynamic jaw joins the slide. Causing permanent offset jaws or separation. At worse, you snap one of the jaws off, or deform or break the main nut.

Given the high cost of a new quality vise, or even a used one, the risk of abusing a vise on a regular basis isn't worth the chance.

In short, a vise's intended function, no matter its quality or style, is to act as a clamp to hold your work in a fixed position. That's it.

Hope this helps.

 

[Itsjustdirt]

Awesome reply, THANK YOU!

Can anyone tell me how to fix the pictures? I tried for an hour and am lost. I used Ingur to host if that matters?

 

[Outlawmws]

Awesome reply, THANK YOU!

Can anyone tell me how to fix the pictures? I tried for an hour and am lost. I used Ingur to host if that matters?

Lose imgur GJ doesn't like it. (Or imGur doesn't like GJ...)

Loading to the site directly:

[/IMG]

 

[ALLFAST]

As a recap, one of the fine GJ folks some time ago stated this in a post along the lines of the intended use of a vise (and what not to do) :

"Anvils are for pounding, Presses are for squeezing, and Vises are for holding! ".......

 

[Carla]

Hey guys I need some help identifying this old vise my grandfather gave me a few years ago it's a pretty good size I was told this might be a good place to get some answers

Try an internet search on 'Goodell Pratt vise'.......... : )

cheers

Carla

 

[drivesitfar]

RL: as i mentioned over on your Wilton thread in vintage tools i think that your gramp's vise was from the early 1900's and maybe even as old as the late 1800's. with Carla's tip i looked up and found this post last summer by Neophyte that might help you some. have fun learning about your gramp's vise and vises in general here on GJ. keep us posted if you find more catalog pages or information as you do some more searching.

good luck

I usually refer to this type of vise as a Brink and Cotton style vise, because Frederick Brink had a patent on a vise of this style, and the Brink and Cotton Manufacturing Company continually manufactured this vise style for decades.

The Frederick Brink Patent was filed in late 1928 and published mid 1929. Goodell Pratt seems to have been manufacturing an almost identicle style of vise at the same time, or previously to the Frederick Brink patent. There is a 1926 Goodell Pratt Catalogue that can be found here.

http://www.blackburntools.com/articles/rose-tools-catalog-archives/pdfs/goodell-pratt-no-16.pdf

On page 6 and page 109 of the catalogue, there is pictured the Goodell Pratt modell 168 vise along with some other Goodell Pratt vises. Your vise looks very similar to the Goodell Pratt vises due to the smooth semi circle shape of the jaws when closed which seems to have been characteristic of most of the smaller Goodell vises. Your vise differs from the Goodell 168 vise due to a lack of a horn on the anvil, and shape of the mounting hole/slot design on the base. I don't know if this might have varied over time or after Goodell Pratt was taken over by Miller Falls.

There were other companies that made or rebranded this style of vise over the years. One of the companies, whose name I forget, was mainly known for manufacturing cast iron housewares and I think maybe sewing machines. For some reason their version of this vise comes to mind when looking at your vise. I believe one may have been pictured here on garage journal in the past.

Outlaw: i like how you show all the members how to post, but wondering why you don't just click on the paperclip to bring up the download page like i do and that i talk about? it's located just above where we write our posts and i think it eliminates a click. i know GJ has several ways to post pictures and i've heard the same thing that Imgur doesn't like GJ's site and heard maybe cause we have a classified section, but it might be something else.

Carla: thanks for the tip that helped me find the post for RL so he can start his searching to solve his mystery vise's origins!!

 

[Rlapointe87]

Try an internet search on 'Goodell Pratt vise'.......... : )



cheers



Carla

Carla thank you so much! I typed that into google and the same vice was about 5 pics down. The reason there's no marker on it, it appears they used stickers. Alittle silly but o well. I'm going to look up some more info on it.


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[drivesitfar]

RL: in the days of old the manufacturers would not put their names on the bigger company's products so that company could use their stickers or even boxes to promote the products. you don't see REED or ROCK ISLAND or COLUMBIAN on the side of Craftsman's and SEAR's vises as a good more modern day example do you?

good luck in your search!!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

I picked up a Wilton bullet vise with 4" jaws yesterday. CHICAGO. "2-49" on the key. Since then I've been searching and reading spits and spots here and there on what the date means - with theories running between date of manufacture, 5-year warranty expiration date (therefore made in 1942) and 12-year expiration date (therefore made in 1937). I say theory because I have yet to see a single shred of any documentation to support any of these theories. If anyone knows of an actual reference that supports one of these theories, please point me to it. Thanks.

 

[drivesitfar]

LUG: exactly why i started this Wilton Date stamping thread. it was mentioned more than once prior to the thread and Bluebolt's research where he put all the vises and their date stamps on an Excel sheet that the dates were all a 5 year warranty. that meant the vises stamped in 1945 would have had to have been produced prior to Wilton going into business.

i don't have the results all to memory, but we've come to the conclusion with all the data that Wilton didn't date their vises from 1941-1945 and when they lost Uncle Sam's business after the war they started stamping their vises to provide a 5 year warranty to the public now that they were the ones buying their vises. then when Wilton moved to Schiller park they started stamping the dates 5 years ahead of the actual date the vises left the factory and then changed back to actual dates in 1960 cause vises could sit on shelves in stores too long is one theory about eliminating the advance dating stamping.

post up your vise and date stamp over on this thread and have a read and see what you think if you have time to.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=269079&highlight=wilton+date+stamp

 

[Rlapointe87]

RL: as i mentioned over on your Wilton thread in vintage tools i think that your gramp's vise was from the early 1900's and maybe even as old as the late 1800's. with Carla's tip i looked up and found this post last summer by Neophyte that might help you some. have fun learning about your gramp's vise and vises in general here on GJ. keep us posted if you find more catalog pages or information as you do some more searching.

good luck



Outlaw: i like how you show all the members how to post, but wondering why you don't just click on the paperclip to bring up the download page like i do and that i talk about? it's located just above where we write our posts and i think it eliminates a click. i know GJ has several ways to post pictures and i've heard the same thing that Imgur doesn't like GJ's site and heard maybe cause we have a classified section, but it might be something else.

Carla: thanks for the tip that helped me find the post for RL so he can start his searching to solve his mystery vise's origins!!

Wow bud I just opened that link to Blackburn tools from 1-4-1926 I just measured my jaws it appears to be a model number 370 and at a cost of 16$. Very cool to find! But who knows mine could be even older than that I wonder how early they started making the 370. Thank you for all the help!! My grandfather was always looking for antiques but he had one hiding under his nose right on his workbench and didn't even know it. I'll see if I can link this in my thread! Also it appears there was no end date on the warranty so I guess if anything breaks I have to go knock on some headstones lol.


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[Bottlecapdigger]

As a recap, one of the fine GJ folks some time ago stated this in a post along the lines of the intended use of a vise (and what not to do) :

"Anvils are for pounding, Presses are for squeezing, and Vises are for holding! ".......

your quote should say" anvils are ringing"

 

[va.grouseman]

WOW, I guess the "price of doing business" just went up!
Thanks eBay!

Zoom, do I detect a little sarcasm, or are you really singing their praises.---Care to elaborate?

 

[drivesitfar]

Zoomie: some of us don't use Ebay daily or even often so do tell is it seller's fees, buyer's fees or shipping or ??

ALL: RL found this Goodall Pratt vise that looks like his gramp's vise and his gramp's vise was just missing the sticker. any idea of the age of this vise cause i was thinking early 1900's and maybe late 1800's. Carla's tip helped us a lot.

thanks

 

[Outlawmws]

Not sure what you mean by an extra click, Drives. You can click on the paper clip, or click on the "Manage Attachments" button. Its a "stock" Photo I link to on GJ, and I see no reason to redo all that work for a second way to get to the same place.

Outlaw: i like how you show all the members how to post, but wondering why you don't just click on the paperclip to bring up the download page like i do and that i talk about? it's located just above where we write our posts and i think it eliminates a click. i know GJ has several ways to post pictures and i've heard the same thing that Imgur doesn't like GJ's site and heard maybe cause we have a classified section, but it might be something else.

 

[drivesitfar]

Outlaw: sorry i never scroll down past submit reply or preview post buttons to see the manage attachment button you use. my paperclip is in my vision just above where i write my posts hence me using it. i actually never saw your manage attachment button before so i thought you had to click to get that screen.

they both get the same pop up, but i bet the cell phone users might like the paperclip better since it's on the same part of their screen.

 

[FMC1959]

Hi all, I love looking over some of the pics in the thread.

I had a sort out after building a new workshop and I forgot I had this many vices sat about.

Welcome Simon, and very nice family pic you have there!

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Thanks for your reply, drives. Exactly what I was hoping to see - a concise recap.

If I am understanding you correctly, my "CHICAGO" "2-49" vise was made in February 1949, during the period after the war, when the dates were dates of manufacturing (beginning of 5-year warranty period), and before 1960, when the dates became 5-year warranty expiration dates. Correct?

post up your vise and date stamp over on this thread and have a read and see what you think if you have time to.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=269079&highlight=wilton+date+stamp

Will do!

 

[drivesitfar]

LUG: yes your Wilton Bullet was out the factory door in February 1949. the undated bullets were either made from 1941-1945 or the date wore off from excessive use. the 5 year guarantee i think started and Bluebolt can correct me if i'm wrong when Wilton moved to Schiller Park (not sure of the date unless i look it up) where they put Guar EXP and date stamp 5 years ahead. then sometime in 1960 Wilton went back to stamping the dates the date they left the factory.

another thing that makes Wiltons a little tougher to date is because their baby bullets, swivel jaws and a few other not so quick sellers had a Chicago cast on their sides when they might be date stamped into the 70's and 80's when that factory had long since been out of the picture.

have fun with the date stamping thread and maybe one day some of the guys and gals stamping these old vises for Wilton might give us some facts they have to add to the discussion.

if you have more questions on this would you mind asking on the date stamping thread?

make sense??

 

[Private Lugnutz]

Sure. I'll see you over there.

 

[visedog]

ALL: any members in India and China want to show us what a well made vise looks like that is made in your country since we all only see the CHEAP VERSIONS? i bet if either one of your countries wanted to make some great vises or tools you surely could so just wondering if anybody currently is.

hope you are all having a great weekend.

You're right in saying that India & China can make great products if they want. I don't know about China, but in India we have a corrupt system from top to bottom which does not let quality triumph. The result is clearly seen in ripping off the buyers by selling them cheap, inferior products. There are some exceptions, but very hard to find nowadays.

 

[G-ManBart]

your quote should say" anvils are ringing"

Not all good anvils ring.

 

[G-ManBart]

LUG: yes your Wilton Bullet was out the factory door in February 1949. the undated bullets were either made from 1941-1945 or the date wore off from excessive use. the 5 year guarantee i think started and Bluebolt can correct me if i'm wrong when Wilton moved to Schiller Park (not sure of the date unless i look it up) where they put Guar EXP and date stamp 5 years ahead. then sometime in 1960 Wilton went back to stamping the dates the date they left the factory.

The move to Schiller Park was completed in 1957 and the Guar Exp dates were already going on before that happened.

I had a 9400 HD that was stamped Guar Exp 12-30-60 that was cast in Chicago, so it was a 1955 model.

As with all things Wilton...it's hard to tell. I've heard the move from Chicago to Schiller started in 1955 so it's anybody's guess where a vise was when it was actually stamped since lots of Chicago cast vises were stamped and sold well after the move.

 

[drivesitfar]

VD: yes the people that have the ability to control QUALITY and PRICING don't have our best interests in mind most of the time. it would be nice if that thinking would change. thanks for your post!!

Gman: that sounds about right. i'm not sure your blue color for the first wilton vises is what a lot of members agreed on in the past cause i thought it was lime (lightish) green. if it was up to me they'd be painted Extreme Green or that Snap On orange or left naked and with BLO.

thanks for your continuing education on Wiltons that might be a lot from the results of that Wilton magnet i think you might have borrowed from me cause i can't find mine now.

cheers

 

[MissileBear]

You're right in saying that India & China can make great products if they want. I don't know about China, but in India we have a corrupt system from top to bottom which does not let quality triumph. The result is clearly seen in ripping off the buyers by selling them cheap, inferior products. There are some exceptions, but very hard to find nowadays.

Thank you very much for this post.

I recently bought a Yost machinist/drill press vise that was "made in India per Yosts' specifications". I returned it before I even fully unwrapped it I wanted it to be awesome, but it really was not.

My company is now 40% Indian, mostly based out of Bangalore/Bengaluru, and even my boss (born in Mumbai) said the same - quality is based solely on what terms were agreed upon with a heavy influence on politics. Like some of the people that my company employs, quality can be top notch, or absolutely terrible.

It is really no different than the US/China - India/China/US can put satellites into space with amazing precision, and in the same breathe produce absolute garbage not worth scrap weight.

I wish that "Made in USA" meant the same thing it did 50 years ago :/

[/rant]

 

[drivesitfar]

MB: without getting into Politics and just talking about QUALITY i think you hit the damn nail on the head.

ALL: for those of you that work at the companies that used to make great tools and don't anymore i hope you are able to change their thinking. even if it means putting your jobs at risk to drive home a QUALITY way of thinking.

it would also be a good thing for companies still trying to honor past lifetime warranties if people would quit buying broken tools (most likely owner caused) for pennies and turning them in for a new tool. hence the crappy tools to replace them with.

speaking of all this anybody care to make a vote on who makes the best new vises (vices) today cause i really don't have a clue since i have a supply of the good old ones? i heard Morgan is up there and probably the bullet lines of Wilton and anybody else have their favorites since this really never was just a VINTAGE VISE THREAD?

 

[Itsjustdirt]

Here is the vice my grandpa left me. He had an odd mix of old quality tools like SK and Proto (I think those were decent brands??) and new harbor freight garbage from his later days. Not sure if this vice is garbage or a keeper. Suggestions?

 

[drivesitfar]

IJD: it's hard to tell what is welded and what is just flaking paint, but a REED 403.5 isn't JUNK. it's a keeper especially if you can restore it and get the swivel jaw working. it looks like the swivel's base is welded so that might have to be left alone and i know a few members that actually prefer non swivel vises.

clean it up and take a few more pictures if you have time and if you don't want to mess with it i bet there are several members that have a decent vise to trade you for yours if you go in your GJ profile and put in your location so shipping can be in person.

cheers and welcome to the forum

 

[Shop Dad]

The move to Schiller Park was completed in 1957 and the Guar Exp dates were already going on before that happened.



I had a 9400 HD that was stamped Guar Exp 12-30-60 that was cast in Chicago, so it was a 1955 model.



As with all things Wilton...it's hard to tell. I've heard the move from Chicago to Schiller started in 1955 so it's anybody's guess where a vise was when it was actually stamped since lots of Chicago cast vises were stamped and sold well after the move.

My Chicago Wilton says "Guar exp 6-62"

 

[Itsjustdirt]

Next are a few Record's I purchased at an auction. One 8" and two 6". ONe of the 6" looks to be painted by hand? Maybe it was refurbished? Also, just curious, what are these worth in fair market? I'll likely keep them but wondering if I got a good deal or ripped off. I paid about $100 each. Too much? I wish they had swivel bases....can they be added? Are these keepers or new **** like most other new tools?

Thanks again!

 

[Outlawmws]

My Chicago Wilton says "Guar exp 6-62"

There are lots of Babys, of all ages, with Chicago cast in.. In fact, are there any Babys with Shiller Park casings?

 

[exmaxima1]

Hey guys I need some help identifying this old vise my grandfather gave me a few years ago it's a pretty good size I was told this might be a good place to get some answers

I doubt anyone will respond to that one. I asked about the same model vise a few months ago, and nobody knew anything.

 

[G-ManBart]

My Chicago Wilton says "Guar exp 6-62"

That's not surprising. I had a Chicago Wilton 9350 that had 6-30-60 on it, but no Guar Exp so it was cast in Chicago, moved to Schiller Park, and stamped/sold in 1960.

Your would have been made in June of 57 so it could have been stamped in Chicago or Schiller Park.

 

[G-ManBart]

There are lots of Babys, of all ages, with Chicago cast in.. In fact, are there any Babys with Shiller Park casings?

There are definitely 820s with Schiller Park castings...almost bought one a few months ago, but passed on it to get a Chicago baby with original paint and stickers.

I've seen a Chicago baby with a date stamp well into the 1970s...20 years after the move to Schiller Park!

 

[Bcom]

Hey zoomie. Carla was able to identify the vise as a Goodell Pratt

 

[trijeff]

Finally!

 

[Rlapointe87]

I doubt anyone will respond to that one. I asked about the same model vise a few months ago, and nobody knew anything.

I did get a response look at the previous page they sent me a link to a 1926 catalog for goodell pratt she's a pretty old one!


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