4 way switch wiring

[Junkman]

I am replacing the old toggle switches with modern paddle type of switches. On the 4 way circuit, the first one that I opened, has the 2 red wires going to the terminals on the left, looking at the switch, and2 black wires on the right. The original switch is Hubble, and the replacement is a Lutron Decora, and it is marked out on the left side, and in on the right. If I just put the wires back the way that I would take them off, will it matter which side is "in" and which side is "out".
Next question, when a switch as a black screw, and a brass screw, is the black screw always the power in, and the brass, power out? Does it matter if they are reversed?

 

[AntonLargiader]

...when a switch as a black screw, and a brass screw, is the black screw always the power in, and the brass, power out? Does it matter if they are reversed?

I have only seen that on three-way switches, and the black is the common terminal that connects to one brass terminal when up and the other brass one when down.

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

The top is one set and the bottom is anothe set of travelers on a 4 way switch.

 

[matt_i]

I found this helpful

as well as this.

The 4 way switch has either two sets of straight-thrus or an "X" pattern internally, depending on the switch state.

 

[Junkman]

I got the 4 way installed, and it works with the old switches. Then I tried to install a 3 way switch to replace the original 3 way, and I can't figure out the wiring. I tried to put the wires on the new switch the same way that the old wires came off, but the light wouldn't work. On the old switch, the red is on the right top, and the black is on the bottom right, and that is marked as common. I put this into the terminal that was marked common on the new switch, and tried the black and the white wires on the other two terminals, but neither worked. The new switch has 2 terminals on the bottom that are marked common... the 4 was has 2 red on one side, and 2 black on the other. the two 3 way switches have 1 each red, black, and white. In the box that has the 4 way switch, there are 2 whites tied together, and a black and a white tied together. Do I have to replace both the old 3 ways first before everything will work correctly, or can I replace them one at a time? I tried to follow the diagrams above, but it didn't work so well for me. Thanks for the help.

 

[AntonLargiader]

Hmmm. If you put the old common to the new common it should be hard to go wrong. But your colors are not clear: You say you had a red, then put a black on the common and black and white on the others. Where did the red end up? Whatever wire was on the common needs to be on the new common and after that it should work no matter how the other two are.

 

[jchetty]

3 and 4-way switches are a pain. I would start on the 3-ways. If you look carefully (may be hard if the box is full)- you should 2 sheathings with wires going to the switch. One may have white and black, the other probably has black, red, and white.

The black by itself should be the common and goes to the black screw. The red and black coming from the same sheathing are your traveler wires.

Granted- you really should test because colors could be backwards or the original installer or someone else could have screwed it up.

Once you fix the 3-ways, the 4 ways aren't that bad. Each pair of wiring from the same sheathing go the same color screw. I personally like to identify power coming in and put those on the 'in' and the power going to the next switch as 'out' but both ways work.

If you continue having problems- post pics. But start with the 3-ways. The 4-ways are just 3-ways with 4-ways put in between them. So make sure the 3-ways are correct first.

All whites should be tied off per code and grounds should be tied off and pigtailed to each switch and box if the box is metallic.

 

[rburke65]

Both the old and new 3 way switches should have one dark screw (the common), and two screws of the same color (travelers). Travelers will be silver or brass I believe. The dark common screw I'll be either the hot feed or the switched leg to the light(s). We used to twist our travelers together on the roughing so the finish guy could tell at a glance witch wires were the travelers. Maybe your wires are twisted to indicate travelers? These will go to the two like colored screws. Only change one switch at a time if you are not confident in the circuitry. We are here if ya need us!

 

[Junkman]

I pulled out the 4 way switch. and there are 2 sets of 3 wires, red, black, and white. The red goes to side of the four way switch, and the black goes to the other side. The two white wires are tied together in the box with the four way switch. When I checked the 3 way switch, the common wire is the white wire, and it is alone on one side of the switch, and the red and black are on the other side of the 3 way switch.
The new switch has two terminals that are marked "common", with one of the common markings being the black screw. I put the black wire onto the black screw, and put the red and the black wires on the other two brass screws, and the light stopped working. I was wondering if it might be that the remaining old switch works differently than the new switch, and that I will need to change both the 3 way switches to being the new ones before it will work properly. The new switches are all Lutron, but I have no idea who manufactured the old 3 way switches. Right now, the light is working properly with the new 4 way switch, and the 2 old 3 way switches.
Thanks

 

[American Locomotive]

Generally the box the switch came in will have a wiring schematic, no?

 

[Junkman]

Generally the box the switch came in will have a wiring schematic, no?

yes, but it is so small, that it is hard to read, and not very clear, since all the lines are black.

 

[American Locomotive]

yes, but it is so small, that it is hard to read, and not very clear, since all the lines are black.

Take a picture, or, try this http://www.lutron.com/en-US/Educati.../InstallDimmer.aspx#!/start/que?id=q5&p=q1,q5

 

[prostreetamx]

It's all about who wired your original house. I personally I have wired hundreds of houses and the companies that I worked for all used a standard way of stabbing wires in boxes and marking wires as travelers or common. Unfortunately as you have discovered, many electricians do not follow this standard. I can simply look at the holes in the box and follow the wires in each location to determine what is what but I have seen a lot of stuff that I have had to tone out or meter to determine what was what. Different brands of 4 ways can be top and bottom, side to side or even cross wired. It is more important to determine what you have before removing the wires from the original switch. This also applies to 3 ways. Color means nothing to wires if the original guy used white wires for something it was not marked for. On a 3 way, determine which of the 3 wires is connected to the original common terminal and mark it with some tape. The other 2 wires do not matter what color they are and they will be travelers. I normally twist my travelers together loosely and wrap the common wire more tightly around that pair. Normally you will be using a black and red wire for travelers at 3 way and 4 way switch locations. Find a pair of red and black wires in the same jacket and that will be one set of travelers. That set will be connected to a matching set of screws on your new switch, no mater where those screws are located on your switch. You will find 1 set is black and another set brass colored. It does not matter which set of travelers goes on a set of matched screws. On a 3 way the common screw is black and the travelers are brass. Screw location means nothing since different companies use different layouts. I have seen guys use white as a traveler but the only time I use a white wire is on a dead end 3 way where there is only 1 set of wires in the box. I mark the white with a Sharpie and wrap it tightly around the black and red wires. At the other end I always tie that same white wire into the hots and mark it also. At that location the common is the switch leg and the common for the dead end switch is the hot that I sent away on the marked white wire. If there is a 4 way in between than both white wires just get tied together and pass through. You can also mark them so later the next guy will have an idea what is there.

 

[Junkman]

I finally gave up, and decided that it was time to find where the power comes into the circuit, and follow the wires to each box. What I finally figured out, was that the old switch (Hubbel) was connected differently than the replacement switch (Lutron). Unfortunately, the old switch didn't have any black screw, and they were all brass screws. Once I got the 4 way switch figured out, and wired properly, all the rest fell into place. Thanks to all that helped, and I have learned from this experience. Junkman

 

[Viper98912]

First time you can figure out how a 3 way switch works, and then later how a 4 way switch works, is pretty enlightening . Makes you first think "YEA! I GOT THIS!" and then next makes you think "Man, the guys who thought of this stuff sure were pretty smart".