The VISES of Garage Journal

[ALLFAST]

Eddie K,

Good find. How did you learn of this vise ? We have he exact vise at my place of work (along with a monster unnumbered 6" Yost). It's seen tons of bench work in almost 9 years (it was purchased new) and performs flawlessly. I saw the exact same model at OSH last week.....they request $500 !!!!!!!! And it looks to be of a much lesser overall quality IMHO.

Keep us appraised of your refurbishment if you go that route,

Shawn

 

[sandman54]

Well 007 i see you have encountered Matchless Antique he has wonderful stuff and prices to match, i have know him for a good while! happy hunting on the Morgan Sandman

 

[Southern Forester]

Here are photos of the giant Reed 408 I picked up recently. Right in front of it, for scale, is an Athol 114 4" vise. Other than the swivel jaw pin, which is frozen in place and is getting the penetrating oil twice a day, everything is smooth and easy to operate. As big as it is, I can open and close it with one finger. Of course, it takes two hands and some oomph to swivel it around and the dynamic jaw itself seems to weigh a ton. The post centered directly beneath it is a treated 4x6".

Any ideas as to the age of it?

 

[G-ManBart]

Eddie K,

Good find. How did you learn of this vise ? We have he exact vise at my place of work (along with a monster unnumbered 6" Yost). It's seen tons of bench work in almost 9 years (it was purchased new) and performs flawlessly. I saw the exact same model at OSH last week.....they request $500 !!!!!!!! And it looks to be of a much lesser overall quality IMHO.

Keep us appraised of your refurbishment if you go that route,

Shawn

The current model is actually a 1755, but very similar. They didn't make many 1750s with the "Made in USA" cast in before they switched to the 1755.

I had two 1750s a while back and they were very nicely made, although the Tradesman jaws are terrible....sintered metal, which is why they're often missing.

I thought it looked pretty fetching in Electric Orange:

 

[rusty65]

Here are photos of the giant Reed 408 I picked up recently. Right in front of it, for scale, is an Athol 114 4" vise. Other than the swivel jaw pin, which is frozen in place and is getting the penetrating oil twice a day, everything is smooth and easy to operate. As big as it is, I can open and close it with one finger. Of course, it takes two hands and some oomph to swivel it around and the dynamic jaw itself seems to weigh a ton. The post centered directly beneath it is a treated 4x6".

Any ideas as to the age of it?

Wow! That's awesome I think there was a 308 found but that's the first 8in swivel jaw and base Reed I've seen very nice.

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[G-ManBart]

Here are photos of the giant Reed 408 I picked up recently. Right in front of it, for scale, is an Athol 114 4" vise. Other than the swivel jaw pin, which is frozen in place and is getting the penetrating oil twice a day, everything is smooth and easy to operate. As big as it is, I can open and close it with one finger. Of course, it takes two hands and some oomph to swivel it around and the dynamic jaw itself seems to weigh a ton. The post centered directly beneath it is a treated 4x6".

Any ideas as to the age of it?

Wow...very nice!

I'm going off memory, but I believe Reed had two later patents with the last being around 1936 or 1938. That puts it at least mid 1930s or older. I think the two later patents were for the split collar, and adjustable nut stop, but I'd have to do some digging to find the references....somebody here probably will remember.

 

[Bellaireroad]

Here are photos of the giant Reed 408 I picked up recently. Right in front of it, for scale, is an Athol 114 4" vise. Other than the swivel jaw pin, which is frozen in place and is getting the penetrating oil twice a day, everything is smooth and easy to operate. As big as it is, I can open and close it with one finger. Of course, it takes two hands and some oomph to swivel it around and the dynamic jaw itself seems to weigh a ton. The post centered directly beneath it is a treated 4x6".



Any ideas as to the age of it?

You got one sweet vise there... I would guesstimate the age at 1920-1935. ...The jaw inserts look different from that time period though... they were solid and cast in on the early ones

 

[ALLFAST]

OK. if I upset any fellow GJ mates with my recent purchase, I sincerely apologize. A few weeks ago I found this random photo of a Paramo No.6 sitting on a round of wood. I always loved this body style. Anyway, I saved the photo and started research on Paramo (as to further hone my vise education ).
Most of my reading ended up naturally being GJ generated, and I learned of the unique and hard to encounter Paramo No.6. I was scouring the SF Bay Area CL like a madman during this time looking for a good used vise for my employer (this dilemma was recently adjudicated ) and what popped up was this Paramo No.6 in San Jose ($150). I emailed the seller and with no response after a few days, I figured it was long sold. He emails me back late last Friday and says yes it's available. Knowing the mild rarity of this minor beast, I emailed him right back and offered him $200 if he would hold it for me to pick up in a week (which was today, after I got off work).

My seller Brian ends up being a professional lifelong picker in his late 50s. He flatly told me that I am first in line, he will keep the ad up (in case I changed my mind), and the price is $150 and not a penny more. I had until this evening to check it out and decide to buy or not.

I meet at his old warehouse at 10 am sharp and he escorts me through a maze of awesome old and vintage collectibles......art, musical instruments, antiques, glass,tools,toys.....like an episode of American Pickers....TONS of cool stuff...he was getting ready to un pack a motherload of recently purchased antique Pyrex labware....just beautiful things. After 20 minutes of ogling his stuff and hearing stories and history, we go through to his giant office and hidden under blankets on a massive corner shelf is Mr. Paramo, at waist height. I was abit starstuck by all of his stuff, and I believe the story is that his ex wife's dad owned a machine shop in San Jose for 60 years, and after his passing the vise was given to him with some other tools. I gave it a quick looking over...the support ring for the immaculate swivel base is cracked in half....in hindsight this little ring is WAY too light for such a heavy SOB. The cast iron is super light and the rest of this vise is Fort Knox. I might need to chase the threads of 1 jaw insert hole in the dynamic jaw....the other 3 are perfect. The jaws are very nice, and nothing is abused except for some minor handle bends. I shot a quick jaw view and will post some before photos in a few days. The jaws are square....the gaps are all even and tight with the slide in the body, and it has that awesome machine swirling patterns on the slide edges and top surface. That spring/washer/pin looks unmolested and there is no slop or endplay of the bulb and screw. I will have a new base ring cast out of bronze but this can wait....it's plenty perfect for a rigid mount as is. Thanks for all of your sharing of your love of the old vises !
Shawn

 

[vintage nut]

I've seen a few 6" paramos around, and they are definitely solid vises. I think they are substantially better than records

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[eddieK]

Eddie K,

Good find. How did you learn of this vise ? We have he exact vise at my place of work (along with a monster unnumbered 6" Yost). It's seen tons of bench work in almost 9 years (it was purchased new) and performs flawlessly. I saw the exact same model at OSH last week.....they request $500 !!!!!!!! And it looks to be of a much lesser overall quality IMHO.

Keep us appraised of your refurbishment if you go that route,

Shawn

Anderson hardware old tool swap meet in Culver City CA

I promised the "boss" and myself I was only going to bring one home...I have a 22 Prentiss on the way right now as well and I picked up 3 Athols in the last 10 days...One is a very old (great shape) 714 with dog catch ratchet.

I was looking at a Columbian 4 or 5 inch in really nice shape, but at $125 I thought let's wait...and then I saw a 6" Wilton bullet for $175 and just a few feet away this sweet looking 5" wilton, slide moved real smooth. If i had not bought so many recently I would have taken the 6"...80 was pretty enticing.

Numbering on the slide is 5 95...so I figure it's a 1995 model.

First thing I did when I got home...I decided to see how my finger would handle a brief meeting with my grinder while getting back to work on that Athol 714. It's the first meeting between me and any of my bones.

Eh

 

[Bellaireroad]

OK. if I upset any fellow GJ mates with my recent purchase, I sincerely apologize. A few weeks ago I found this random photo of a Paramo No.6 sitting on a round of wood. I always loved this body style. Anyway, I saved the photo and started research on Paramo (as to further hone my vise education ).

Most of my reading ended up naturally being GJ generated, and I learned of the unique and hard to encounter Paramo No.6. I was scouring the SF Bay Area CL like a madman during this time looking for a good used vise for my employer (this dilemma was recently adjudicated ) and what popped up was this Paramo No.6 in San Jose ($150). I emailed the seller and with no response after a few days, I figured it was long sold. He emails me back late last Friday and says yes it's available. Knowing the mild rarity of this minor beast, I emailed him right back and offered him $200 if he would hold it for me to pick up in a week (which was today, after I got off work).



My seller Brian ends up being a professional lifelong picker in his late 50s. He flatly told me that I am first in line, he will keep the ad up (in case I changed my mind), and the price is $150 and not a penny more. I had until this evening to check it out and decide to buy or not.



I meet at his old warehouse at 10 am sharp and he escorts me through a maze of awesome old and vintage collectibles......art, musical instruments, antiques, glass,tools,toys.....like an episode of American Pickers....TONS of cool stuff...he was getting ready to un pack a motherload of recently purchased antique Pyrex labware....just beautiful things. After 20 minutes of ogling his stuff and hearing stories and history, we go through to his giant office and hidden under blankets on a massive corner shelf is Mr. Paramo, at waist height. I was abit starstuck by all of his stuff, and I believe the story is that his ex wife's dad owned a machine shop in San Jose for 60 years, and after his passing the vise was given to him with some other tools. I gave it a quick looking over...the support ring for the immaculate swivel base is cracked in half....in hindsight this little ring is WAY too light for such a heavy SOB. The cast iron is super light and the rest of this vise is Fort Knox. I might need to chase the threads of 1 jaw insert hole in the dynamic jaw....the other 3 are perfect. The jaws are very nice, and nothing is abused except for some minor handle bends. I shot a quick jaw view and will post some before photos in a few days. The jaws are square....the gaps are all even and tight with the slide in the body, and it has that awesome machine swirling patterns on the slide edges and top surface. That spring/washer/pin looks unmolested and there is no slop or endplay of the bulb and screw. I will have a new base ring cast out of bronze but this can wait....it's plenty perfect for a rigid mount as is. Thanks for all of your sharing of your love of the old vises !

Shawn

Very nice... what's your plans for it?


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[va.grouseman]

Sothern Forester, not only is that 408 rare but it is in good shape from what I can see.---And subsequently, gives you primo bragging rights to.---More pics please.

 

[ALLFAST]

BellaireRoad,

Thank you. I will first give it a good wipedown with Krud Kutter and get it off of the swivel base. I took a peek underneath and it looks dry and dirty there as well. It was at one point painted with a brush with a lightweight black paint as best I can tell. It has those little powder blue remnants of what I believe is original (?) spec paint, so I'm torn between leaving her as found or doing a makeover. I'm 90% sure that I will strip her down, do an inspection, and soft brass wire wheel the machined surfaces. I am researching WWII era color of England, and will likely put her in some period correct color to pay respect to our Allied Forces, as if she served in an Air Forces aviation service shop.....all semi gloss and high lighting the letters with contrasting color. She is definitely a keeper, and will be my go to vise. I found an old logo that has this light blue, so this could give me a tribute to her possible original blue tone, while keeping a military theme

 

[ALLFAST]

Something along these lines. If you have any ideas, let me know !

Thanks for the interest ,

Shawn

 

[ALLFAST]

I'm just starting, but this is what I'm leaning heavily on, as if it were used in a maintenance shop of the time.

 

[eddieK]

The current model is actually a 1755, but very similar. They didn't make many 1750s with the "Made in USA" cast in before they switched to the 1755.

I had two 1750s a while back and they were very nicely made, although the Tradesman jaws are terrible....sintered metal, which is why they're often missing.

I thought it looked pretty fetching in Electric Orange:

Nice work...I may have some questions for you later. The pins holding the cast that holds the main nut housing were not into the nut housing (long nut, don't know what else to call it). Everything looks good though.

I will have to heli coil one thread for one jaw...one out of four ain't bad.

I have it all apart and soaking. I use mineral oil..,now that solvent is no longer available must shops here use mineral oil. I was going to look into NAPA and see if I can get the static and dynamic soaked in something stronger.

 

[ALLFAST]

BellaireRoad,

Thank you. I will first give it a good wipedown with Krud Kutter and get it off of the swivel base. I took a peek underneath and it looks dry and dirty there as well. It was at one point painted with a brush with a lightweight black paint as best I can tell. It has those little powder blue remnants of what I believe is original (?) spec paint, so I'm torn between leaving her as found or doing a makeover. I'm 90% sure that I will strip her down, do an inspection, and soft brass wire wheel the machined surfaces. I am researching WWII era color of England, and will likely put her in some period correct color to pay respect to our Allied Forces, as if she served in an Air Forces aviation service shop.....all semi gloss and high lighting the letters with contrasting color. She is definitely a keeper, and will be my go to vise. I found an old logo that has this light blue, so this could give me a tribute to her possible original blue tone, while keeping a military theme

 

[Toshn]

I picked up an old American Scale vise and was hoping someone may be able to help identify and date it. It is a No. 17 with swivel base, has 5" jaws and weighs 63 lbs. It does not have an exposed lead screw.

It does not have the Red Seal logo anywhere on it and seems older to my untrained eye.

Any assistance would be appreciated.

 

[Outlawmws]

I picked up an old American Scale vise and was hoping someone may be able to help identify and date it. It is a No. 17 with swivel base, has 5" jaws and weighs 63 lbs. It does not have an exposed lead screw.

It does not have the Red Seal logo anywhere on it and seems older to my untrained eye.

Any assistance would be appreciated.

 

[Bellaireroad]

BellaireRoad,



Thank you. I will first give it a good wipedown with Krud Kutter and get it off of the swivel base. I took a peek underneath and it looks dry and dirty there as well. It was at one point painted with a brush with a lightweight black paint as best I can tell. It has those little powder blue remnants of what I believe is original (?) spec paint, so I'm torn between leaving her as found or doing a makeover. I'm 90% sure that I will strip her down, do an inspection, and soft brass wire wheel the machined surfaces. I am researching WWII era color of England, and will likely put her in some period correct color to pay respect to our Allied Forces, as if she served in an Air Forces aviation service shop.....all semi gloss and high lighting the letters with contrasting color. She is definitely a keeper, and will be my go to vise. I found an old logo that has this light blue, so this could give me a tribute to her possible original blue tone, while keeping a military theme

Sounds like a good plan...they were originally blue....there are some mentions of good matches to the original color in older threads on here... IIRC valspar was mentioned... are you going to cast that ring yourself?


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[drivesitfar]

SF: i agree if you have the time and ability to take and post up a lot more pictures of your Reed 408 i'll be happier. thanks in advance and nice find. WELL DONE SIR!!

AF: i sold my big Paramo to a local GJ member a couple years ago and tried to buy it back from him a couple times or trade him something else to make sure he liked it and it went from a polite NO to a DEFINITE NO cause he loves it maybe better than the Wilton C0 i sold him before that.

the swivel bases on Records and Paramo vices were really something the company i don't think put much thought in making or even marketed cause the vice it really built well as a non swiveler. while i don't want to discourage you in making a nice new swivel or fixing the current one i'd rather see you put the effort into either making a nice stand if you need 360 degree access or just mount it on the bench cause most of us maybe only use the swivel bases very little.

good luck and nice story

ALL: vise picking is slow, but there are a few good choices in my area if i NEEDED ONE.

hope you are all having a great weekend.

 

[visedog]

Here are photos of the giant Reed 408 I picked up recently. Right in front of it, for scale, is an Athol 114 4" vise. Other than the swivel jaw pin, which is frozen in place and is getting the penetrating oil twice a day, everything is smooth and easy to operate. As big as it is, I can open and close it with one finger. Of course, it takes two hands and some oomph to swivel it around and the dynamic jaw itself seems to weigh a ton. The post centered directly beneath it is a treated 4x6".

Any ideas as to the age of it?

Nice looking vice! Must have taken 2 men to lift it up.

 

[ALLFAST]

BellaireRoad : I've spoken with a great old fellow in SoCal that says it would be easy peasey and relatively inexpensive. Another option may be to have the basic shape and thickness cut from plate at a plasma shop ( in maybe aluminum or steel) and finish machined on a lathe.......it's definitely LOW as a priority ;-) because as Drives so eloquently stated.......

It's a great vise to have in a fixed non swivel base, and the internal ring is a joke in comparison to the rest of the vise ! Fortunately, this swivel base is in great shape. Drives, I think this is a definite keeper....it's like staring at a 1967 Corvette....it looks fast and strong just sitting there!

 

[Shiftless]

Southern Forester:
Another thank you for posting those few pics of your monster Reed 408. I know exactly what you are facing with a stuck swivel pin. The one on this vise was also frozen when I bought it. Here is a pic of my Reed 406 and the back jaw now swivels easily. 6 inch wide jaws and weighing in at a bit over 160 pounds. A baby compared to yours. (Yeah, I know the handle is wrong)

 

[Southern Forester]

I just have my 12 year old son, who is eager but still skinny, to help move it. I went all sorts of Egyptian-building-the-pyramids on moving it.

 

[vintage nut]

For what it's worth, out of the several hundred records and paramos I've seen both for sale and in use up here, maybe two had swivel bases.
They never seemed to catch on with English pattern vises. And the English swivel bases I've seen don't look half as well designed or build as what I've seen from Parker, rock island, Morgan, ect

I can swivel the 140# Morgan 160 with one fingertip on it, and when it's locked down with just reasonable hand pressure, it won't move no matter how hard you try, even having a long bar clamped in it. I used a record swivel base once, and wasn't impressed.

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[Outlawmws]

I just have my 12 year old son, who is eager but still skinny, to help move it. I went all sorts of Egyptian-building-the-pyramids on moving it.

Best bet for moving the big boys is to unwind and remove the D jaw completely, and move part at a time.

 

[Mark in Indiana]

All,

Here's my Baby Bison-Bial 1250-63 vise that just got finished. I guess it could be called a calf. I won it at an auction for 9$. With the precise jaw movement, small size & swivel base feature, I plan to make a set of aluminum jaw covers and use it for very small, delicate workpieces.

Here is a before picture and some after pictures for your review:

Cheers

 

[Southern Forester]

Outlaw, that's what I did. And that jaw was heavy. It was as heavy, or almost as heavy, as my entire Prentiss 6". I tried to get the swivel jaw off, but it wouldn't (and still doesn't) budge (at least the pin won't come out). That's a work in progress. But as I had the vise at tail-gate height, and needed it to be bench height, I decided it was better to mount it than to put it on the ground and work on freeing the frozen parts before getting back up to bench height.

 

[Shiftless]

SF:
I assume you have hit that bolt with some penetrating oil (Kroil is my personal favorite)
Do you have a drag link socket to fit into that big slot? Worked for me.
More hints over on the vise repair thread.

 

[Little_Cyborg]

Long time lurker looking for information on a vise. Tag says Montgomery Springfield NJ. I submitted a offer but I guess it sold before the seller could respond just looking for information in case another comes up for sale.





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[trijeff]

Not sure of the specifics of that Montgomery Ward, but I am sure it would have gone/will go for $600 on eBay. Those funky dynamics always bring a premium and that vise looks to be in especially good shape. Sorry you missed out, hope it went/goes ti someone here.

 

[ALLFAST]

Vintage Nut, Thanks for that info. I wasn't aware of fhis.

Mark in Indiana, That is BAD **** ! I love the attention to detail, especially the painted spring. Is that copper against the hunter green ? That's a sweet little vise.

The MW vise is extremely unique. Is this designed as a poor man's rear swivel jaw, to hold odd shapes ? That's in good shape. Great find for you !

 

[Fretters]

For what it's worth, out of the several hundred records and paramos I've seen both for sale and in use up here, maybe two had swivel bases.
They never seemed to catch on with English pattern vises. And the English swivel bases I've seen don't look half as well designed or build as what I've seen from Parker, rock island, Morgan, ect

I can swivel the 140# Morgan 160 with one fingertip on it, and when it's locked down with just reasonable hand pressure, it won't move no matter how hard you try, even having a long bar clamped in it. I used a record swivel base once, and wasn't impressed.

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Swivel bases have never really been a thing across here. That's why most swivel bases look like an after-thought, to cover as many models as possible rather than being specific to each.

 

[vintage nut]

Swivel bases have never really been a thing across here. That's why most swivel bases look like an after-thought, to cover as many models as possible rather than being specific to each.

Apart from new chinese vises and the very occasional American one, you never really see them here either. Vast majority of the vises I've seen in industry were 4-6" fixed base records

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[Mark in Indiana]

Alfast:
Thanks for the kind words. I used a red paint pen for the lettering.

 

[dutchgray]

Apart from new chinese vises and the very occasional American one, you never really see them here either. Vast majority of the vises I've seen in industry were 4-6" fixed base records

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The only English swivel bases I have are on small vices, No 1 sized or smaller, whereas over half of the American ones I have have swivel bases, all much bigger.

 

[ALLFAST]

With respect to a larger Record/Paramo with an originally equipped swivel base, is the swivel considered something that was exclusively shipped to the states, or it just wasn't a popular feature in the UK?

TIA.

 

[FMC1959]

Here are photos of the giant Reed 408 I picked up recently. Right in front of it, for scale, is an Athol 114 4" vise. Other than the swivel jaw pin, which is frozen in place and is getting the penetrating oil twice a day, everything is smooth and easy to operate. As big as it is, I can open and close it with one finger. Of course, it takes two hands and some oomph to swivel it around and the dynamic jaw itself seems to weigh a ton. The post centered directly beneath it is a treated 4x6".

Any ideas as to the age of it?

Fantastic score!!! I agree with VA, looks in great shape. You should take different angle pics when you have a chance and post them

About a year or two ago, VA or Oldie, or possibly someone else had posted a unicorn list of IIRC 3 vises seen in brochures, but no one ever having one. Thoughts were that possibly they were never actually made. I remember for sure the Reed 408 and 209, which just recently popped up in the past couple of weeks.

I can't remember if the other vise was the Cman 5198, which showed up shortly thereafter, or if it was something else.

Anyone remember? (I think right now the only BIG vise we have seen an ad for but not a real example of might be the 700 pound Pittsburgh)

 

[FMC1959]

Swivel bases have never really been a thing across here. That's why most swivel bases look like an after-thought, to cover as many models as possible rather than being specific to each.

Apart from new chinese vises and the very occasional American one, you never really see them here either. Vast majority of the vises I've seen in industry were 4-6" fixed base records

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

The only English swivel bases I have are on small vices, No 1 sized or smaller, whereas over half of the American ones I have have swivel bases, all much bigger.

Oddly enough I have a Record #6 and Wooden #3; both have very big swivel bases...much larger than (for their size) equivalent US vises.