VISE REPAIR 101 all vise repairs, lubricants, sources for parts and the tricks to fix

[schor]

Spring is here, weather is warm enough to spend time in the shop without having to add heat. Going to work on some of the projects. One being this wilton I started last fall.

A little spit and polish.

Now I just need to finish it.

 

[drivesitfar]

Twertsy: when i get the time and want to delve into a deep vise history search which will happen some day in the near future now that the last of our 5 kids is moving out i'll gladly read all your new research. thanks for taking on this challenge and i know others will like learning maybe even more than i do.

for me the #1 is the hunt and finding some of these great tools, but being able to find more about the ones i stumble on that i had no idea about is a bonus that yours and other members information is very valuable to me.

THANK YOU!!

Schor: isn't it amazing how these old almost discarded vises and tools still have some life in them and with a little elbow grease they can almost look new. nice work and thanks for sharing.

JIM: is your paint booth BUG FREE and do any flying or big critters enter it at anytime?

so spiffing up an old vise is one thing, but putting color on it for a color blind thread is another. nice job with the prep and painting and i guess the painting also keeps yours and any vise from rusting so if you don't need it NAKED paint away.

how hot does your paint booth get during the day and does it cool off at night so do you move items inside or let them sit out all night?

ALL: not much to do with my new to me Prentiss #5 6 inch 130 pound swivel jaw vise except pull the pin and get the swivel jaw to work like it was meant to. i'm wondering if Prentiss maybe was ahead of Reed in putting hardened steel jaws in their cast molds cause my #5 has cast in jaws and i'm guessing 1910's or maybe 1920's when it left the factory.

 

[jimreed2160]

Drives--This time of year I usually get tagged by the mosquitoes if I am out long enough. Elbows seem to be their favorite place and I got bitten there at least once yesterday. Mr Roundup and I have been working on the brush and that has put a hurt on their antics.

There is no evidence that baking makes the paint superior in any way. It does accelerate the curing process and that can be a plus. But I have time on my side and do not mind waiting a few weeks for this Rustoleum to get rock hard.

I bring it inside after an hour or so because I will forget it otherwise. After overnight in the shop, I will bring it inside to get it out of the dust.

 

[ALLFAST]

BIRTMAN ELECTRIC BADGE QUESTION :

For the many possessors of the small through very large Rocky vises, are those Birtman badges all the same dimensions or do they increase in scale as the vise enters the larger arena ?

The 571 I recently bought has a Birtman badge roughly 1 " × 3"....do any of you have bigger Rockys and know the badge measurement?

TIA.....Shawn

 

[drivesitfar]

AF: i'd say all the badges are the same size, but not any handy here to measure at the moment. i've got at least 3 130-150 pound Rock Islands and 1x3 inch sounds about right for the badge.

good luck and tell us how you are going to attach it maybe with a few pictures too.

cheers

JIM: might i suggest you raise a few BATS cause they eat their body weight in mosquitoes and bugs every night.

 

[jimreed2160]

JIM: might i suggest you raise a few BATS cause they eat their body weight in mosquitoes and bugs every night.

There might be a few bats rattling around in my belfry.

Maybe I should try to let them out.

 

[ALLFAST]

Thanks Drives,
I'm going to have one reproduced in the coming weeks and I shall give you a report. It makes sense that there would only be one size for all models. I do think I have seen different materials/colors (black-brass, all brass etc ?).

Shawn

 

[drivesitfar]

AF: not sure if they had different style badges or from use the black just wore off. my #597 is pretty nice and was not abused or used often so this might be a good example of how the badges left the factory. also i've seen a lot of vises spray bombed so if a new owner didn't like the paint's color and stripped the vise i'm guessing the black paint on the badge would disappear too.

good luck and post up pictures and details as you have time. thanks

 

[jreb10]

Here is my badge on a smaller Rock Island 571 vise from the mid 1940's:

 

[DRRummel]

I was up in Philadelphia at an iron shop that has been in operation since 1939 and at that location since 1967. I could see some of the old machinery in the shop and asked if they ever gave shop tours. The old man smiled and said this was his grandfather's business and he had worked in the shop for 50 years before working in the offices. My phone was not taking pictures every time I wanted, but you will get the idea.

 

[ALLFAST]

DIF and JREB, thanks for posting this....my 1950s 571 has the exact badge colors, same as DIF...

DRUMMEL.....that sounds like a cool place....My grandfather would be 102 today....he owned his own machine shop and was a boilermaker.....he was a boiler maker from age 16, and started his own shop when he was in his mid 20s.....worked everyday and retired at 70.....he came in early and left late most days......and loved what he did....healthy as a horse and very fit from his business until his passing at 93....

 

[Youngguns]

Anyone have an idea where I could find a replacement nut for this 3.5" Craftsman? There aren't any signs of abuse, so I'm not exactly sure what happened.

 

[Outlawmws]

If no one here has a parts vise, Eprey might.

 

[ganymede]

Thanks Drives,
I'm going to have one reproduced in the coming weeks and I shall give you a report. It makes sense that there would only be one size for all models. I do think I have seen different materials/colors (black-brass, all brass etc ?).

Shawn

Interest piqued!

 

[drivesitfar]

Gany: first of all i have to say if that's you in your AVATAR you've aged a bit since i've seen you or is he just a relative?

so have you sent Allfast a PM mentioning that you'd like a Birtman Electric badge to so maybe he can defer some costs if he can do more than one at a time? or did you find one yet.

DR: thanks for posting all those cool vises on the REPAIR 101 thread, but you might get a better response over on the main vise thread and here's the link:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44782

don't delete your post or any of the pictures cause you know we all like vise pictures and i'm just trying to help you post them where they might get more eyes of the members just looking at vises.

 

[ALLFAST]

Drives you are a mind reader !

 

[ALLFAST]

So I'm probably a *****, but where does one buy the smaller head diameter machine screws that fit the countersunk holes of the older style jaw inserts? The local hardware store doesn't have these as I recently determined.

Thanks for any feedback,

Shawn

 

[Outlawmws]

Mostly we modify the screws that are close to the required angle/diameter.

You can do this in a lathe of you can chuck the screw in a hand drill and do it on a grinder. (the drill keeps it spinning so its more likely to be concentric...) The later means you start long and cut to length...

 

[ALLFAST]

Thanks Outlaw !

 

[vintage nut]

I'd be interested in a birtman electric badge for my rock island as well if someone gets them made.

As for the screws, I've generally made them from a piece of drill rod on the lathe when needed. Turn and thread it on the end, part off where the head ends, and use either a slitting saw in the mill, or a hacksaw with two blades side by side to cut the slot.

Usually though I'll make replacement jaws, and have them take regular socket head cap screws

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

 

[drivesitfar]

AF: there are a few sources for some of the jaw's screws that some of the members have mentioned in this thread. more than likely you'll have to do what Outlaw and VINTAGE NUT mentioned. another way to get the angle if you have the ability and don't own a lathe or want to put the screw in a drill press or drill is to use your bench grinder. GOOD LUCK

also for all you Rock Island owners ALL OF THEM didn't come with Birtmen Electric badges cause the older Rock Island vises were made before 1930 when Birtmen Electric bought Rock Island's vise business.

they are cool badges though and if you have the two little holes on the side of your static jaw more than likely your vise had a badge.

ALL: Just a reminder for those of you using BLO (boiled linseed oil). Ryan the owner of GJ posted this video that will show you what happens if you don't dispose of the rags or paper towels properly cause they might self combust in your indoor or outdoor garbage can or on your bench top. many a house or garage/shop has burnt down because of this or stained rags can do the same thing. there is a reason to use the metal cans with the lids or you can wash the rags or just hang them to dry if you want to use them again. PAY ATTENTION and STAY SAFE and watch this video.

 

[Shiftless]

So I'm probably a *****, but where does one buy the smaller head diameter machine screws that fit the countersunk holes of the older style jaw inserts? The local hardware store doesn't have these as I recently determined.

Thanks for any feedback,

Shawn

Have you tried looking for fillister head screws.? Socket heads work in some.
If you need ones with an unusual taper you might have to get common flat heads and turn them down to fit. There are ways to do that if you don't have a lathe as others have already mentioned.

Drives:
Hopefully all of us have seen that scary video, but since new readers pop in often, it is good to post reminders. Thanks!
I thought of the fire hazard when I saw a gallon can of BLO on the shelf of an old timey hardware store in Oregon where I am currently visiting relatives.

 

[ganymede]

Gany: first of all i have to say if that's you in your AVATAR you've aged a bit since i've seen you or is he just a relative?

so have you sent Allfast a PM mentioning that you'd like a Birtman Electric badge to so maybe he can defer some costs if he can do more than one at a time? or did you find one yet.

.

Hey Drives.
Thank you.
Allfast pm'd me and I'd be in for one if there's a group buy.
The menacing looking guy in my avatar is none other than J.R. Brown
(Brown & Sharpe).

 

[ALLFAST]

Ol, Shiftless and Drives, thanks for the scoop....I'll try fillister heads.....or find a local lathe !

 

[Bill C]

Hi all, I just picked up my first "big" vise and it will need a bit of TLC to bring it back to life. It is an Athol 624 1/2 that my neighbor had sitting in his scrap metal pile outside of his shop for the last couple of years . I was much obliged to take it off his hands for free and hopefully revive it.

It appears he abandoned the vise some time after the cotter pin on the main screw sheared off. He must have used it for a while after the pin sheared as it looks like the slide has been beaten with a hammer to open it since he could no longer use the handle to open the jaws. (no reverse )

Anyway, I've gotten the main screw removed and had to dig out the crushed spring and washers:

The dynamic jaw does not move easily. I have to whack on it with a dead blow hammer to move it. So I have been hitting it with PB Blaster and letting it sit.
I know I will need to file down the damaged slide end in order to remove it completely but I also noticed some detents on the end of the slide:

How can I remove the dynamic jaw completely? wont these detents prevent it from coming out? Is there a trick here? It would maybe be obvious to me if the slide moved in & out easily but since it looks I will need to knock it out with the deadblow hammer, I wont exactly be able to finesse it out of the main housing.

Also the swivel base is locked on solid. I cannot loosen the lock mechanism. it is seized tight. So I am also soaking that with PB-blaster too. The whole thing is not too rusty so I think just hitting with PB over a couple days and maybe some heat, and it will all come apart.
Anyway, I would love some tips on getting the slide/dynamic jaw all the way off with those detents in the way.
Also what would be a good replacement for the destroyed reverse spring? Maybe a stack of wave spring washer between the two thick steel spacers/washer?

 

[Outlawmws]

Those are not detents and it should slide right out.

The battle damage needs draw filed flat or stone them if they are slight as you mentioned.

 

[M_George]

I have a Craftsman 5242 vice that has a very loose lead screw where it goes through the jaw into the handle. After taking it apart, it looks like there might be some part missing. Does anyone have a diagram showing how this vise was assembled?

 

[Outlawmws]

Pics of the vise and we can probably tell you whats missing. Vise assembly diagrams are rare or non-existent.

 

[drivesitfar]

Bill: nice save on the ATHOL. i haven't taken an Athol apart yet, but a lot of members here have and yours would be the first one i've heard of that the dynamic jaw couldn't screw all the way out. have you tried to yet?

as far as i know RECORD vice's Quick release vice is one of the few vices made where the dynamic jaw can't unscrew out cause the end is closed. when you take that vise apart you'd need to push the pin out holding the vise nut in place and you might even need to remove the screw to get the dynamic out.

let us know and take a few pictures.

also when you get to the point of replacing the spring and pin to hold the screw on to your dynamic several members have used a piece of copper or plastic pipe to hold the spring back then cut a slit in the pipe to get the pin in and out.

ask questions if you need help and if you can provide pictures that always helps us help you.

MG: pictures would help that is for sure cause some of us don't have every model # memorized. my guess it Columbian vise company made that vise for Craftsman so you might get lucky finding a plan for it looking at their identical Columbian vise if there is one.

 

[vintage nut]

Drives, the non quick release records have the enclosed slide too. The main reason I don't like records all that much. For someone who disassembles and cleans/lubricates all the vises every couple months, it's a real pain

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

 

[M_George]

I found the problem with the Craftsman 5242 vice. The thrust washer was mounted behind the retaining collar instead of the handle. It was previously binding and now that the thrust washed it in front of the handle it now works smoothly. I still wonder if there should be a washed located between the retaining collar and the jaw. The pic shows the orientation as I have it now.

 

[Outlawmws]

Looks right to me. the main pressure is on the head when clamping so that is where the washer (and some high pressure grease) belongs.

 

[Bill C]

Those are not detents and it should slide right out.

The battle damage needs draw filed flat or stone them if they are slight as you mentioned.

Thanks, I will for sure file/grind down the "battle damage" at the end of the slide before trying to remove it.

Bill: nice save on the ATHOL. i haven't taken an Athol apart yet, but a lot of members here have and yours would be the first one i've heard of that the dynamic jaw couldn't screw all the way out. have you tried to yet?

as far as i know RECORD vice's Quick release vice is one of the few vices made where the dynamic jaw can't unscrew out cause the end is closed. when you take that vise apart you'd need to push the pin out holding the vise nut in place and you might even need to remove the screw to get the dynamic out.

let us know and take a few pictures.

also when you get to the point of replacing the spring and pin to hold the screw on to your dynamic several members have used a piece of copper or plastic pipe to hold the spring back then cut a slit in the pipe to get the pin in and out.

ask questions if you need help and if you can provide pictures that always helps us help you.

I can't unscrew it as the retaining pin was sheared off already when it came into my possession. As such as I was able to unthread the main screw with ease, it just didn't bring the dynamic jaw with it

The dynamic jaw moves in & out only with the assistance of a dead blow hammer. So before I got carried away, I wanted to make sure those two protrusions highlighted in the photo I shared earlier would not limit its removal. I didn't want to sit there hammering away only to have those two protrusions limiting its forward travel. I will dress-up the end of the slide to eliminate the "mushrooming" and then hopefully drive it out the rest of the way with my dead blow hammer.

Now regarding the thrust bearings/washer & spring. What would be a good suitable spring to replace the old one? Mine is completely trashed. I have no idea what the original "free" length was or what sort of spring rate it had. McMasterCarr has plenty to choose from, I am just not sure how stiff or long the original one was....

 

[M_George]

Looks right to me. the main pressure is on the head when clamping so that is where the washer (and some high pressure grease) belongs.

Thanks Outlawmws, my Samson vise is similar but not nearly as nice.

 

[454ragtop]

Thanks, I will for sure file/grind down the "battle damage" at the end of the slide before trying to remove it.


I can't unscrew it as the retaining pin was sheared off already when it came into my possession. As such as I was able to unthread the main screw with ease, it just didn't bring the dynamic jaw with it

The dynamic jaw moves in & out only with the assistance of a dead blow hammer. So before I got carried away, I wanted to make sure those two protrusions highlighted in the photo I shared earlier would not limit its removal. I didn't want to sit there hammering away only to have those two protrusions limiting its forward travel. I will dress-up the end of the slide to eliminate the "mushrooming" and then hopefully drive it out the rest of the way with my dead blow hammer.

Now regarding the thrust bearings/washer & spring. What would be a good suitable spring to replace the old one? Mine is completely trashed. I have no idea what the original "free" length was or what sort of spring rate it had. McMasterCarr has plenty to choose from, I am just not sure how stiff or long the original one was....

You could just get a shaft collar and skip the spring, that's how a lot of vises come. The spring is just to make it feel like it has zero backlash in the screw, not really necessary in a vise, especially with a properly adjusted shaft collar on the screw. But if you have your heart set on a spring, you basically need one that just fits over the screw, a little longer than the distance from the inside of the jaw to the hole in the screw, not really rocket science.

 

[drivesitfar]

Bill: if another member that has worked on his Athol doesn't post in the next day or two might i suggest looking up Athol vises on this 101 thread and see if the answer has already been given. i know that pipe helper i mentioned is in this thread at least a couple times with plastic and copper versions.

if nobody posts an answer you might try sending a PM to the members that own an Athol and see if they recall or know what spring to buy.

is your main screw already out of your vise which by your last comment is what i'm assuming? your dynamic should move by your vise nut, but that said if you are beating on it or using a press i'd monitor it and maybe be ready to stop and either do some trimming on those protrusions or work on removing the vise nut before you take the dynamic out. i'm almost 100% an Athol vise's dynamic jaw just screws out or in your case hammers out cause the screw is already out of it.

good luck

 

[Bill C]

Swung by the local industrial supply this morning on my way to work. I picked up two steel 1"x 1.5" x 0.125" machine bushing and a compression spring. The spring is a little long (free length) so I will probably need cut a coil or two off to make it work.

Should I be using sintered bronze thrust washers instead of the steel? It looks the original Athol ones were just plain steel. Local store didn't have sintered bronze in the correct size so I bought what they had since they were cheap anyway.

I mocked it w/ the cotter pin real quick for a photo. How does it look?

I will probably make a stubby pvc spring compression tool as highlighted elsewhere on these forums tonight and re-install the main screw and then use the main screw to remove the dynamic jaw. If its gets too difficult to turn, I will go back to tapping it out with my dead blow instead to avoid damaging the buttress threads which are not that strong in the reverse direction.

 

[Bill C]

is your main screw already out of your vise which by your last comment is what i'm assuming? your dynamic should move by your vise nut, but that said if you are beating on it or using a press i'd monitor it and maybe be ready to stop and either do some trimming on those protrusions or work on removing the vise nut before you take the dynamic out. i'm almost 100% an Athol vise's dynamic jaw just screws out or in your case hammers out cause the screw is already out of it.

good luck

Yep. Main screw came right out as the cotter pin was already sheared off. The spring and thrust washers were all jammed up in there though. As the cotter pin was missing, the main screw did not take out the dynamic jaw with it
The dynamic jaw will not move by hand at all, but it also doesn't need a real hard beating with the hammer either. It just needs mild tapping/persuasion with the dead blow to move it along. It appears to get tighter the closer it gets to the end of the slide however.
I spent some time last night with a file dressing the edges and eliminating the mushrooming at the end of the slide. Ive been hitting it PB Blaster daily for a couple days now and it is moving smoother and smoother each day. I still haven't gotten as far as the little detents in the slide though. I still question whether they will slide past the main vise nut assembly .

I have read no mention of these slide detents on any Athol discussion, nor have I seen pictures of an Athol slide with these features on then either.. So I really don't know if these are typical to all Athol's, or just 624 1/2's.... or just mine specifically. I can easily grind them off, but I'd rather not, if they exist for a purpose.

Also, I am not sure how to remove the main vise nut on this Athol. I suspect if its pinned, I will first need to separate the swivel base from the static jaw first, to gain access. To remove that big *** screw I am going to need something like a draglink socket and an impact I suspect. I have the air tools, but need to track down a suitable drag link socket.

 

[drivesitfar]

Bill: until some of the guys show up that restore Athol vises i'd say thrust bearings might work better than a washer, but your washer spring and pin work look ok to me.

here's a picture of the pipe i mentioned to push the spring back so you can get that pin in and out next time you need to clean the screw or take vise apart.

hope this helps and keep asking questions if you need more help. i think you'll have this FREE old Athol vise up and running soon.

how is the dynamic's slide looking as you get it closer to the vise nut? will it clear it so you can get it out all the way?

good luck

 

[Bill C]

Bill: until some of the guys show up that restore Athol vises i'd say thrust bearings might work better than a washer, but your washer spring and pin work look ok to me.

here's a picture of the pipe i mentioned to push the spring back so you can get that pin in and out next time you need to clean the screw or take vise apart.

hope this helps and keep asking questions if you need more help. i think you'll have this FREE old Athol vise up and running soon.

how is the dynamic's slide looking as you get it closer to the vise nut? will it clear it so you can get it out all the way?

good luck

They were called "steel machine bearings". They appear to be an almost perfect match to the damaged thrust bearings I removed from the vise. I am only assuming these were original to the vise, but who knows really? I may still order bronze thrust bearings of the appropriate size from McMaster anyway though, especially if I buy a shorter spring from then too.
As for clearance of the slide. It is hard to say. There is a lot of old grease/gunk packed in there around the main vise nut. Hard to clean that real well while its all assembled. I was hopping to do the heavy solvent soak after the thing is apart, but may need to do it before I pull the slide out to have a better look at the "guts". Pictures of disassembled Athol's seems to be in short supply. Ill make sure to include plenty for others future reference.

In my research, I did come across this Athol patent for swivel base vise.

[