Low cost LED or T5 fixtures?

[jtyson]

I'm in the process of trying to turn my vintage garage into a more functional shop space. I do metal fab and wood work and I tend to find myself using drop lights and spots often to supplement the far less than adequate 4 100w CFL bulbs currently lighting my 25x25x9 space.

I came across the often mentioned Feit 4' Costco fixtures doing some work for a tattoo shop. They seem relatively bright, and the idea of saving a few bucks a month with LED is appealing.

I've also read good things about t5 fixtures, but I know that good ones are expensive, and realistically, I'm trying to keep it cheap. I'd like to light the whole garage for sub $300. I could stretch that a bit for t5 if it were heads above the cheap Costco lights, but not much.

I was thinking maybe 8-10 of the Feit LED fixtures. That sound adequate?

I'm not sure how many t5 fixtures or if it would be better to go with four 6-bulb fixtures or something like that.

I tried figuring a basic wattage/cost from the LED to the T5 and it appears I'd pay about double for the fluorescent, but my concern is ballasts going bad, bulbs dying and such. So is the light output so much better that it would be worth the extra cost?

Or should I go with something all together different? Will be blacksmithing, turning both wood and metal, working on car parts and on bikes, but my trucks/cars won't fit inside so that isn't much of an issue.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I came across the often mentioned Feit 4' Costco fixtures doing some work for a tattoo shop. They seem relatively bright, and the idea of saving a few bucks a month with LED is appealing.

Those are decent fixtures but if you think you are going to "save a couple of bucks a month" you are sadly mistaken. Unless we are taking about replacing dozens and dozens of incandescent bulbs !

It is a complete mystery to me why someone would pay more than $25-$30 for an LED fixture, especially if they could get a similar T5 fixture for around $20.

 

[ForceFed70]

Agree with theoldwizard.

For most people LED does not yet represent a cheaper alternative. Even when you consider the cost of electricity over the lifetime of the fixture.

If "bang for buck" is you goal - you'll likely be better off with T8 (not T5).

 

[Showkey]

There are dozens of calculators to determine the pay back and costs to operate.

http://www.fishnick.com/saveenergy/tools/calculators/lflampcalc.php


One two tube fixture switched from T8 32 watt bulbs to two bulb 19 watt LED fixture saves about $8.00 a year if the fixture is on 8 hours per day. ( amount varies by power costs)

On the low end fixtures the T8 and LED close in costs and the $20-$29 Costco fixture might beat the Home Depot, Lowes or Menards shop lights? Especially if the LED Actully last as labeled because we have all experience T8 bulb and fixture failing early and often.

YES? BIG Question....will the LED last ????? I keep all the receipts and mark the fixtures at install.

Yes.......installing a high end LED In closet with low use will save almost nothing.........that's obvious to most but might slip by some.

 

[jtmcclain]

I have 14 of the Costco LED's in my 26x36 shop. I love them, they are pretty bright and should be brighter when I paint the walls white. Best upgrade I did in there. I think each one draws .4 amps so I am pulling around 6 amps. Instant on in the winter too. I am buying 7 more to line down the middle of my shop this summer. I hung each one with a self tapping screw right in the middle of the fixture just to get them up quickly, they are pretty light and you can daisy chain up to 4 together. I had 3 300 watt incandescent shop bulbs in there before and it wasn't very bright and used more power. Just my $.02

 

[jtyson]

I guess the power saving bit wasn't clear. I'm sure that I'll spend more lighting with 10 LED fixtures or a handful of t8 or t5 than I am paying now with 4 CFL bulbs, I was more comparing monthly cost of the LED vs the t8/t5.

I will run the lights probably an average of 6 hours a day. Currently the cost is $60 for 2 LED fixtures at Costco. They carry a 5 year warranty from what I understand. I could probably get away about $5 cheaper per fixture if I went t8 with decent bulbs. So assuming the ballasts and bulbs would last 5 years, even if the LED only saved me $1 a month, I'd still be ahead in the overall cost over 5 years.

Cost savings matters, but ultimately I would like to try to get the best of both worlds. The most light I can get cheap.

 

[cybrdyke]

I guess the power saving bit wasn't clear. I'm sure that I'll spend more lighting with 10 LED fixtures or a handful of t8 or t5 than I am paying now with 4 CFL bulbs, I was more comparing monthly cost of the LED vs the t8/t5.

I will run the lights probably an average of 6 hours a day. Currently the cost is $60 for 2 LED fixtures at Costco. They carry a 5 year warranty from what I understand. I could probably get away about $5 cheaper per fixture if I went t8 with decent bulbs. So assuming the ballasts and bulbs would last 5 years, even if the LED only saved me $1 a month, I'd still be ahead in the overall cost over 5 years.

Cost savings matters, but ultimately I would like to try to get the best of both worlds. The most light I can get cheap.

Assuming you pay 10c per KwHr...
An LED fixture will cost you $30 (as you stated above). Using 42 watts, it will cost you $9.19 each to operate per YEAR. 5 year total: $76.00. The Feit fixture claims 3700 lumens, so it's efficiency is not great compared to other LED fixtures at only 88 lumens per watt.
A T8 fixture will cost you $25 (as you stated above). It will use 59 watts and will cost you $12.92 each to operate per YEAR. 5 year total: $90. It will deliver approximately 3600 lumens, so it is less efficient than the Feit LED at only 61 lumens per watt.
A good LED strip fixture will cost you around $100. It will deliver in the ballpark of 4300 lumens (+20% more than the above two choices) and use about 42 watts, costing you $46. 5 year total: $146.00
Good luck,
CD

 

[theoldwizard1]

If "bang for buck" is you goal - you'll likely be better off with T8 (not T5).

If you are replacing a T8/T5 it will take a very long time to be get your money back.

If you are installing new, and you can get 4' double bulb, LED fixtures for a couple bucks more than florescent, then BUY THE LEDs !

 

[drneo]

After hours of GarageJournal review, I ended up going with Sam's Club's Honeywell LED linkable shop lights - they have the 5 year warranty and put out more lumens (4500) compared to the Costco ones. I bought a 10 pack, which brought the individual light price down to $28.50/fixture.

 

[jtyson]

Interesting I don't have a Sam's membership but I'm sure I could find someone to let me use theirs. Sam's website also lists Lights of America 4500 Lumen 40 watt fixtures $57.33 for a 2 pack. Great reviews on their website. Any thoughts here?

@cybrdyke thanks for breaking that down into simple numbers. Looks like it would be hard for me to argue against the cheap LED fixtures in my case. Especially if I were able to get higher output fixtures for about the same price from Sam's as far as bang for buck go.

 

[bigredmf]

Your ROI should include the cost of replacing the potentially junk ballasts supplied in the t8 or t5

Red


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[cybrdyke]

@cybrdyke thanks for breaking that down into simple numbers. Looks like it would be hard for me to argue against the cheap LED fixtures in my case. Especially if I were able to get higher output fixtures for about the same price from Sam's as far as bang for buck go.

Makes sense considering that your annual hours are pretty low. If it was a space that was using lights for 3000 hours or more each year, I'd go with the higher quality stuff....
Good luck,
CD

 

[cybrdyke]

Your ROI should include the cost of replacing the potentially junk ballasts supplied in the t8 or t5

Red


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I get your point, but the same can be said for potentially junk drivers and factory seconds diodes used in real cheap LED fixtures. That evens it out.
CD

 

[Showkey]

After hours of GarageJournal review, I ended up going with Sam's Club's Honeywell LED linkable shop lights - they have the 5 year warranty and put out more lumens (4500) compared to the Costco ones. I bought a 10 pack, which brought the individual light price down to $28.50/fixture.

The deal killer on the Sams lights are the clear lens.
They did fix the linking and cord out the top which makes flush mount problems. But not all models of the Sams lights being sold have these improvements.

 

[yeldogt]

For general lighting in a typical garage I don't think it matters ... Staying away from the cheapest fixture is more important.

The problem with the higher output fixtures is they tend to be too bright -- too much light from one place. It's a common occurrence with both LED and T5's.

Lighting architects still pick 3000 - 3200k for work situations. I don't like working under 5000k + for long periods w high lumens.

 

[jtyson]

I can agree that I prefer warmer lights, but it seems without staying with an incandescent bulb, those just aren't available nearly as much. I don't think I've ever seen a 3200k LED fixture. Though honestly, I think that might be a bit yellow for my taste. I like the 4300k in my vehicles for driving, so I imagine working under that would be about the same.

I'm not sure what warranty is on the cheap T fixtures, but with a 5 year warranty on the LED ones, I can't see why there would be reason to spend more unless their light quality is better. If one breaks, take it back and swap it out. I'm in a metro area so it isn't like I'd be having to make a trip to town 3 hours away for one $25 light. I'd be driving 4 miles to Sam's/Costco and spending the 10 minutes talking to customer service. But simply to have something more reliable if it is used more hours, I don't think I could justify the extra cost for that.

I'm going to see if I can check out Costco and Sam's today and see what they actually have in stock

 

[kTHREE]

I went from 4 100watt bulbs to 3, 8' T5HO ballasts, it's perfect for me.
Was working in the attic this weekend and asked my wife to close the garage door.
The door was closed, the lights made it look like daylight down there.

One thing to note. I don't use my main lights for quick in/out lights. I still have 2 100 watt bulbs that I'm converting to cans for the instant/on/off quick light in the garage.

 

[jtyson]

Well after some thought about the lights, I found some 4000k units on Amazon. Hundreds of reviews and very few negative. Most of the negative were about mounting, which I don't care much about as that can easily be modified. Worst case scenario, I don't like them, I just return them. Great thing about Amazon Prime. I'll update this thread with before and after pictures

 

[slimpickins]

I did some calculations on LED v. Fluorescent lighting for my big shop and found that it would take approximately 30 years to recover the cost of the LED lights in electricity savings. Do the math with the bulb life, and factor in a ballast replacement over the life of the LED lights, and check it out. LED lighting is still too expensive for me!

Another little known fact about LED lighting is that the light output decreases over time to about 80% of new.
Cheers

 

[sandmann]

For me it's not the cost but the time and effort always having to replace bulbs. When you factor in replacement bulbs and the occasional ballast replacement, (especially for those lights that are 15-20 feet up there)...it seems that the math above might need to be adjusted??
The last time I bought a ballast, it cost as much as a new fixture...or about the same as a comparable LED fixture once you add the cost of the old fixture.

Not to mention the occasional person that falls off of the ladder replacing bulbs and ballasts...how much is that worth to you?? Yes I am older so I really have to think about that sort of stuff

I have switched almost every light in the house and shop to LED and am a very happy camper!

 

[83VillageRepair]

I can agree that I prefer warmer lights, but it seems without staying with an incandescent bulb, those just aren't available nearly as much. I don't think I've ever seen a 3200k LED fixture. Though honestly, I think that might be a bit yellow for my taste. I like the 4300k in my vehicles for driving, so I imagine working under that would be about the same.

I'm not sure what warranty is on the cheap T fixtures, but with a 5 year warranty on the LED ones, I can't see why there would be reason to spend more unless their light quality is better. If one breaks, take it back and swap it out. I'm in a metro area so it isn't like I'd be having to make a trip to town 3 hours away for one $25 light. I'd be driving 4 miles to Sam's/Costco and spending the 10 minutes talking to customer service. But simply to have something more reliable if it is used more hours, I don't think I could justify the extra cost for that.

I'm going to see if I can check out Costco and Sam's today and see what they actually have in stock

Look at CRI as well as Color Temp. I like 4000k and above 70 CRI, it's my personal sweet spot.

Wade

 

[AntonLargiader]

Above 70 isn't much of a criterion. Kind of like saying you only drink beer that is wet...

 

[zendriver]

I'm not a lighting expert, but these 4 quad retrofits tubes cost me $160 total. Most of the entire world is moving to LED technology, so nothing else appealed to me. 5 year warranty. Works perfect so far. I purchased some extra tubes, in case those pesky "cheap diodes" decide to give out.




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[Bert_]

That's for good quality lights. They will usually list hours at L70, which is the number of hours before the lamp/fixture will reach 70% of initial light output. It's usually somewhere between 50-100,000 hours, Sometimes more or less.

I think the costco/samsclub/ect. lights will loose output much faster than that, if they even stay working that long.

 

[cybrdyke]

Another little known fact about LED lighting is that the light output decreases over time to about 80% of new.
Cheers

All light sources depreciate over time. Given enough burn time, most will fade significantly before they actually die. "Lumen depreciation"is the term and it's usually published information. LED will depreciate well below 50% over time. So will Metal Halide and High Pressure Sodium. The lighting industry considers a lamp "dead" when it gets to 70% of it's initial lumens.
This is one area where there is alot of deceptive advertising, especially by the internet sellers and ebay sellers. It seems like they will say anything about the life of their product, because the customer isn't educated enough to know any better. I see BS information all the time regarding life, lumens, and color.
CD

 

[zendriver]

Maybe the OP should burn candles for light. they put out 100%, until the candle is gone.

I love my LEDs, whether they last two years, or the rest of my life. They have a 5 year warranty, but if the "honeywell" company goes belly up, so what? Newer lighting will probably be better at half the cost.

The notion that an LED is 3x better, just because it cost 3x as much, is a silly one, IMO. It probably costs more to manufacture toilet paper than LEDs, any more.

 

[Falcon67]

Not sure why the alternative hasn't been mentioned - find some use T8 fixtures at - say the Restore - and puplate them with LED bulbs from 1000bulbs.com. Last I looked, bypass bulbs could be had for around 8~$9 each.

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/192828/PLT-10852.html

I get your point, but the same can be said for potentially junk drivers and factory seconds diodes used in real cheap LED fixtures. That evens it out.
CD

This. Utilitech 60w from Lowes - lost quite a few, like 6, in the last year. GE and other brands - none so far.

In the Cheap T8 area - I used 13 cheap $40 T8 four bulb fixtures in the shop. I have replaced one ballast in 7 years.

 

[83VillageRepair]

Above 70 isn't much of a criterion. Kind of like saying you only drink beer that is wet...

That is true but if you just look at color temp any HID options look good and you can wind up with HPS for instance which typically has a CRI in the 20's. Most of the cheap CFL's and Fluorescent tubes in big box stores have CRI's in the low 60's which they do not show on the box. The closer to 80 or above you can get is better especially if you do any painting or detailing but it gets expensive really fast.

Wade

 

[yeldogt]

If you search out commercial and extremly high end commercial LED they are 3000k. I'm building a new house and while I did go for some LED lightning -- the cost was just too great for overall use. A dimming high end MR16 equilevent recessed fixture w/ LED module is $500.00 ... and you end up with various dimming issues.

The 3000k is also true for almost all home exterior use and office -- parking lots and some areas pop up to 4000k.

Lots of people are fine with the consumer LED strips light -- but if you are a bit older and find they street your eyes -- there is a reason .. same when using the 5000k and above T5's and other high outputs.

 

[forAK]

Not sure why the alternative hasn't been mentioned - find some use T8 fixtures at - say the Restore - and puplate them with LED bulbs from 1000bulbs.com. Last I looked, bypass bulbs could be had for around 8~$9 each.

https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/192828/PLT-10852.html


This. Utilitech 60w from Lowes - lost quite a few, like 6, in the last year. GE and other brands - none so far.

In the Cheap T8 area - I used 13 cheap $40 T8 four bulb fixtures in the shop. I have replaced one ballast in 7 years.

^^This^^

Except I bought my fixtures used from a church that was swapping them out to LED fixtures. I got 36 2 tube fixtures for $150. Then went to Amazon and got the 10 bulb pack of Philips drop in bulbs for $66 shipped to the door.
So for $600 a bright *** shop.

These are the bulbs I purchased: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01439I37K/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Stss95]

If you already have t8 fixtures you may want to check out these.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NXBMDEY/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I replaced all the bulbs in my garage with these. I had 24 flouresent t8 bulbs replaced them with 12 of these led t8's and it's just as bright. These leds use half the watts and I'm using half the amount of bulbs so they will pay for themselves. They come with new tombstones and they are direct wire no need for a ballast. No more buying ballasts or bulbs.

 

[rbunch4468]

I currently favor LED fixtures for a different reason... In my former home shop in the basement of my New England home (I know, I know... this is a GARAGE forum), the temperatures are very cool and it takes quite a while to warm with a space heater. My old fluorescents were very dim in the colder temps and produced very little light. Once the room warmed fully, they brightened to normal levels. I did not have the luxury of only using the shop when temps have stabilized, nor did I even have a garage... p.s. now moved to SC where we enjoy both warmer temps, and a two car garage!

 

[jkeyser14]

I just put new lights in my garage. I bought the $20 Home Depot 4' T8 fixtures and put cheap LED T8 bulbs in them. Check out the Phillips Instafit line of bulbs at Home Depot, they weren't much more than the flourescent bulbs.