Lights and Fan Layout

[BryceW]

In December my wife and I finally purchased the house we've been renting for the last two years. During these two years I've endured a complete lack of proper lighting in the garage and I'm looking forward to finally rectifying that.
I've got a blank slate to work with here. The ceiling and walls were all covered in nasty old 1/4" plywood which I have begun removing. It will be replaced with drywall (at least on the shared house walls) as this is an attached garage. The space is used strictly as a workshop, not for parking. I mainly do metal fabrication.

For lights I'd like to do something different from standard T8 bulbs, so I'm planning on going with these 4400 lumen LEDs: https://www.1000bulbs.com/product/193112/KEY-GGL50.html?gclid=Cj0KEQjwmIrJBRCRmJ_x7KDo-9oBEiQAuUPKMtRB_nRW4Aw0aMfl3lhE5OIHVHR4cP-JbZI19UTlOcYaAlf48P8HAQ

Since I'm in South Carolina and the heat/humidity can get pretty intense I'd also like to install a fan of some sort. I'm thinking one of these from Home Depot but I'm open to suggestions. My ceiling is 9'10" so I have to have something that doesn't hang too low
http://www.homedepot.com/p/Hampton-Bay-60-in-Black-Industrial-Ceiling-Fan-26829/205791277


As for the layout below is what I was thinking via a quick sketchup drawing. It posted a little small so if you can't make out the dimensions it's 19' deep by 19'9" wide at the back wall, 27' across the front wall with a 16' door.

In the drawing the two lights closest to the front wall appear to be blocked by the raised door. I plan on working around this by building arms that extend under the garage door to hold the lights. I've installed a high lift kit and jackshaft opener so the underside of the door is only 8" below the ceiling (thread on that later).

I have approximately zero expertise in the area of light distribution so if anybody's got a better idea I'm all ears. With a white ceiling and light grey walls will this be enough light? If not I've got room in the budget to add more and I'd rather do it right the first time before I drywall everything.

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[matt_i]

I would answer like this. Before you drywall, you have to do the electrical anyway. So test it out and see if you like what you have. If its not working out, then time for some more fixtures.

For planning purposes, if you have two or more lamp-base fixtures already I would just buy a couple bulbs, usually you will be surprised in a good way if its "enough light". If not then you know you need more.

Adding: the white painted drywall will generally give even more improvement after its up, but best not to depend on the "bump" and get it sorted out ahead of time.

 

[American Locomotive]

To start, I recommend finding a different light fixture.

Those fixtures are only managing 80 lumens/watt, which is worse than most modern T8 fluorescent lighting. Then to top the abysmal efficiency off, they're only 75 CRI which is going to leave you with poor color rendering and generally unpleasant light.

 

[BryceW]

I would answer like this. Before you drywall, you have to do the electrical anyway. So test it out and see if you like what you have. If its not working out, then time for some more fixtures.

For planning purposes, if you have two or more lamp-base fixtures already I would just buy a couple bulbs, usually you will be surprised in a good way if its "enough light". If not then you know you need more.

Adding: the white painted drywall will generally give even more improvement after its up, but best not to depend on the "bump" and get it sorted out ahead of time.

Right now I have no fixtures up, just a completely bare ceiling, but I will be able to adjust before putting up drywall, hadn't really thought of that.

To start, I recommend finding a different light fixture.

Those fixtures are only managing 80 lumens/watt, which is worse than most modern T8 fluorescent lighting. Then to top the abysmal efficiency off, they're only 75 CRI which is going to leave you with poor color rendering and generally unpleasant light.

Do you have any suggestions for a better light of a similar style? I'm not dead set against standard T8 fixtures but I'd like to take a look at what else is out there.

 

[American Locomotive]

While I don't have anything in that particular style off the top of my head, I do know you can do a lot better. If going LED, you should be looking for about 100 lumens/watt minimum, and 80 CRI minimum. 85-90 CRI would be best, but may be harder to find.

 

[cybrdyke]

Bryce, I kinda like those fixtures. They have that "metal shop" industrial vibe. They're really just a fancy screw-in lamp. Each one will deliver more light with fewer watts than a standard 2 lamp T8 strip fixture would, so they're pretty efficient. My only concern is that they deliver those lumens in a 120 degree beam (think: cone of light). From a ceiling height of only 9'10", I dont know if the beam will have enough vertical space to spread out adequately. You might end up with pools of light on the floor with darker areas in between. Maybe you can find someone to run a photometric layout for you just to be sure the light will be even.
Good luck,
CD

 

[D.J.]

We have installed some t5 6 bulb fixtures at work that put out more light thàn the metal halide fixtures they replàced, They were purchased at our locàl True Value store.

 

[yeldogt]

I think you will find it more pleasant to work under a more uniform light layout --- two 8' strip lights on each side will give you better coverage vs the three single. (4 fixtures total) Also, many like to have a bench in the back --- placing a strip in the rear is good idea.

I'm not a fan of the high output fixtures (say the 6 bulb T5's) ... too much light coming from one spot.

I have general lighting and task lighting .. works for me.

 

[BryceW]

Bryce, I kinda like those fixtures. They have that "metal shop" industrial vibe. They're really just a fancy screw-in lamp. Each one will deliver more light with fewer watts than a standard 2 lamp T8 strip fixture would, so they're pretty efficient. My only concern is that they deliver those lumens in a 120 degree beam (think: cone of light). From a ceiling height of only 9'10", I dont know if the beam will have enough vertical space to spread out adequately. You might end up with pools of light on the floor with darker areas in between. Maybe you can find someone to run a photometric layout for you just to be sure the light will be even.
Good luck,
CD

The metal shop industrial vibe was admittedly one of the driving factors, however I'm not one to put form over function. The lights are well reviewed on amazon so I might just buy one and throw it up to see how well it does. I'm also looking at other options right now, including boring old T8s. I guess there's a reason they're so ubiquitous though.

Edit: After scouring Platonic Solid's stickies I'm leaning towards 8 flush mount LED T8 fixtures from beeslighting. It looks like quality LED T8s are just too hard to beat on a price/light output basis.

 

[American Locomotive]

The metal shop industrial vibe was admittedly one of the driving factors, however I'm not one to put form over function. The lights are well reviewed on amazon so I might just buy one and throw it up to see how well it does. I'm also looking at other options right now, including boring old T8s. I guess there's a reason they're so ubiquitous though.

There's no reason you have to go T8 tube lights. I was basically saying, if I were going to spend $250 on lights, I wouldn't put it towards lights that are only 75 CRI (which is awful). I did notice that else it claims these lights are 80 CRI. It might be worth calling them and seeing if it's a misprint on the website.

I ran a quick simulation in dialux with the closest lights I could find, and your configuration of 7 lights is going to give you an average light intensify of ~55 fc, however you're going to have a lot of hot spots under each light, where it could be as high as 65-70 fc, while off in the corners it will be in the low 40s. That little corner area with the single light will also have a high intensity right under the light, while the edges will be quite dark.

 

[PhysicsDude]

I recently installed a ceiling fan in my garage, and just picked up 2 cheap ones off craigslist. I installed them on a 5 minute occupancy sensor... that way they turn off when I'm not in the garage and I'm greeted with a gentle breeze everytime I walk in.

I would recommend going 4' LED fixtures over canlights. They're generally cheaper and easier and you'll get less shadows with them. I put recessed lights in my garage and they look fancy, but I think T-8 style fixtures give off better light.

The linkable 4' LED fixtures are really popular, its what I would go with. Something like this, although 8 fixtures would be overkill for your square footage. You can usually find similar sets cheaper at Sams, Costco, Amazon, etc.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Commerci...nkable-Shop-Light-8-Pack-54103161-2/300237598

 

[BryceW]

Overkill is what I'd like to aim for. The problem with those linkable lights is they're hanging. I don't like the look of the hanging lights with exposed cables/plugs. If I go with T8 fixtures they would be flush mount, like these from Platonic Solid's thread http://www.beeslighting.com/product-p/st48232-led.htm?CartID=1
possibly with these bulbs http://www.beeslighting.com/product-p/l48t8-840-18g-id.htm?CartID=2

American Locomotive- How important is CRI if I'm primarily doing metal work? I spend half my time under a welding hood or behind a face shield. Is this the type of thing that can cause eyestrain or are we just talking more muted colors? Thanks for all your knowledge so far, the pool of knowledge on this forum is great.

 

[cybrdyke]

How important is CRI if I'm primarily doing metal work? I spend half my time under a welding hood or behind a face shield. Is this the type of thing that can cause eyestrain or are we just talking more muted colors? Thanks for all your knowledge so far, the pool of knowledge on this forum is great.

CRI is one of those things that's over-rated. In fact, the IES (the lighting authority) is in the process of changing the measuring criteria for it. We've been living and working under fluorescent lights for decades and they have only been in the low 70 CRI. Lots of factories and machine shops use Metal Halide lamps and those are in the mid-60 CRI.
In a metal shop, the difference between 75 and 80 is unimportant. You wouldn't be able to tell anyway.
I think what's being said is that in LED-world, you can get higher CRI, so why not take advantage of it? I'd agree if there wasn't a great cost differential.
I also dont like cheap hanging, linkable, shoplights. The only thing they have going for them is that they're cheap. That's why they're popular.
Have a look at nicer LED strips like Philips Fluxstream, Lithonia ZL1N, Techbrite Narrow Lens Strip, etc. All are alot nicer looking, brand names with quality components and will likely be under $100 each.
Good luck,
CD

 

[American Locomotive]

American Locomotive- How important is CRI if I'm primarily doing metal work? I spend half my time under a welding hood or behind a face shield. Is this the type of thing that can cause eyestrain or are we just talking more muted colors? Thanks for all your knowledge so far, the pool of knowledge on this forum is great.

I highly disagree with cybrdyke that "CRI is overrated". The D.O.E. considers CRI to be important enough to suggest a minimum of 80 CRI for indoor lighting, and they have actually mandated CRI minimums for lamps. Low CRI fluorescent have a sickly green color, and low CRI LED lights tend to have a harsh blue component. How many people do you know say they hate fluorescent lighting? I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the amount of times I've heard that said. It's always because they experience crappy low CRI lighting every day at work and hate it.

I also disagree that one can't tell the difference between 75 CRI and 80 CRI. A buddy's shop has two fluorescent T8 fixtures side by side in the same area. One has GE 80 CRI bulbs - the other has Phillips 85 CRI bulbs. The 85 CRI bulbs have significantly less "green tinge" than the GE bulbs. We switched to 5000K 90 CRI lights in our garage, which is used almost exclusively for metal fabrication and automotive projects, and it greatly improved the enjoyability of the space. It's just way better than the crusty 70 CRI T12 fluorescent that were in there before.

Here's a shot of from my basement, where I did a cheapo quick lighting upgrade from 70 CRI bulbs to 90 CRI bulbs (I will admit this is an extreme example) The two beams you see are both the exact same color. You can see how one looks like actual wood, while the other is this sickly green color (especially visible on the white paint on the stair case).

You tell me which lighting you'd rather spend time under.

 

[BryceW]

Thanks for the info on CRI, that may keep the original lights in the running although I may add a couple more to make up for their narrow beam.

I like the look of some of the LED strips you mentioned but $100 a fixture compared to $40 a fixture (the ones I linked from beeslighting) is a pretty steep difference. With 8 fixtures and a fan I'd be bumping up against $1000 before I even accounted for wiring.

The beeslighting fixtures (I found these in Platonic Solid's thread so hopefully their decent quality) seem like a good compromise for a flush mount light that is in the ballpark of hanging shop lights pricewise. The downside is they're not much to look at.

 

[American Locomotive]

Thanks for the info on CRI, that may keep the original lights in the running although I may add a couple more to make up for their narrow beam.

Check my post again, I updated it with a picture showing the difference CRI makes.

I like the look of some of the LED strips you mentioned but $100 a fixture compared to $40 a fixture (the ones I linked from beeslighting) is a pretty steep difference. With 8 fixtures and a fan I'd be bumping up against $1000 before I even accounted for wiring.

Keep in mind those Phillips, Lithonia, etc... fixtures are very high quality fixtures that will likely last you a lifetime.

Also remember that I ran some basic lighting calcs with the original fixtures you wanted, and to get even lighting you'd really need 9 or more of them in the main area, and at least two in that side spot.

 

[cybrdyke]

I highly disagree with cybrdyke that "CRI is overrated". The D.O.E. considers CRI to be important enough to suggest a minimum of 80 CRI for indoor lighting, and they have actually mandated CRI minimums for lamps. Low CRI fluorescent have a sickly green color, and low CRI LED lights tend to have a harsh blue component. How many people do you know say they hate fluorescent lighting? I don't have enough fingers and toes to count the amount of times I've heard that said. It's always because they experience crappy low CRI lighting every day at work and hate it.

I also disagree that one can't tell the difference between 75 CRI and 80 CRI. A buddy's shop has two fluorescent T8 fixtures side by side in the same area. One has GE 80 CRI bulbs - the other has Phillips 85 CRI bulbs. The 85 CRI bulbs have significantly less "green tinge" than the GE bulbs. We switched to 5000K 90 CRI lights in our garage, which is used almost exclusively for metal fabrication and automotive projects, and it greatly improved the enjoyability of the space. It's just way better than the crusty 70 CRI T12 fluorescent that were in there before.

Here's a shot of from my basement, where I did a cheapo quick lighting upgrade from 70 CRI bulbs to 90 CRI bulbs (I will admit this is an extreme example) The two beams you see are both the exact same color. You can see how one looks like actual wood, while the other is this sickly green color (especially visible on the white paint on the stair case).

You tell me which lighting you'd rather spend time under.

I dont want to hijack the thread with techno-goo, so I'll just suggest that you're confusing CCT and CRI. Your comment that low CRI has a blue tinge or green tinge is inaccurate. CRI is not determined by color of light. I understand what you think you see in your photograph, but all that really is is that one lamp has a higher blue component and one has a higher red component. CRI is not what's making the huge difference that you can see.
CD

 

[BryceW]

Check my post again, I updated it with a picture showing the difference CRI makes.

Keep in mind those Phillips, Lithonia, etc... fixtures are very high quality fixtures that will likely last you a lifetime.

That is a pretty drastic difference, gives me something to think about on CRI. As for the high quality fixtures I assume that they would last a lifetime, but I won't be in this house for a lifetime. If this was the last shop I was building I'd go all out, but I'd be surprised if I'm still here in 5yrs. I've got quite a bit of tool purchases lined up and $400-$500 will go a long ways.

Also remember that I ran some basic lighting calcs with the original fixtures you wanted, and to get even lighting you'd really need 9 or more of them in the main area, and at least two in that side spot.

That was kind of what I was thinking when I was putting together the first layout. Below is a better layout with the Keystone (or other similar screw in fixtures) and a layout with 4' T8 fixtures based off the suggestions from the lighting layout sticky.

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[American Locomotive]

I dont want to hijack the thread with techno-goo, so I'll just suggest that you're confusing CCT and CRI. Your comment that low CRI has a blue tinge or green tinge is inaccurate. CRI is not determined by color of light. I understand what you think you see in your photograph, but all that really is is that one lamp has a higher blue component and one has a higher red component. CRI is not what's making the huge difference that you can see.
CD

I know the difference between CRI and CCT. Both lamps in that image are 4100K CCT. The 75 CRI lamp has a very strong green emission line from the mercury vapor discharge. The phosphor provides a weak red and an even weaker blue emission. The 90 CRI tube has significantly stronger red and blue emissions, and better suppresses the green mercury emissions, providing the higher CRI and therefore reducing the green tint. Same CCT, but vastly different lighting quality because of the CRI differences.

Same thing with LED bulbs, except reds will be muted and things will tend to get a harsh bluish tint which is unrelated to the CCT of the bulb.

That is a pretty drastic difference, gives me something to think about on CRI. As for the high quality fixtures I assume that they would last a lifetime, but I won't be in this house for a lifetime. If this was the last shop I was building I'd go all out, but I'd be surprised if I'm still here in 5yrs. I've got quite a bit of tool purchases lined up and $400-$500 will go a long ways.

I think your revised layout with the 10 fixtures will provide very adequate lighting. If your ceiling and all the walls are painted, it will greatly increase the amount of scattered light, which may help reduce hot-spots.

 

[BryceW]

I think your revised layout with the 10 fixtures will provide very adequate lighting. If your ceiling and all the walls are painted, it will greatly increase the amount of scattered light, which may help reduce hot-spots.

Thanks, I almost went that route from the beginning. Takes some creativity to work around the garage door and a 5' ceiling fan but in the dead of summer in South Carolina its nice to be able to have the door open and some airflow going. The ceiling will be painted white and the walls will be light grey so I should get plenty of reflection.

 

[BryceW]

As for the wiring- With 10 55w LEDs and a ceiling fan with a max of 107w I've got 657w total. This is well under the 1440w max for a 15A circuit but could I run into problems (i.e. code violation) due to the fact that the standard screw in fixtures are rated for much higher than 55w and somebody could theoretically overload the circuit by swapping in high wattage incandescents? I'd like to run all of this on one circuit if possible to save room in the panel.

As far as wiring I should be able to go panel>switch>fixture>fixture>fixture>etc. correct?

For the two fixtures mounted under the garage door I plan to fab up arms as shown below. Would this meet code with the romex running through the steel tube into the attic? Since the steel tube is not technically an approved fixture would I need to run MC up into a junction box in the attic and then 14/2 to join the run?

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[AntonLargiader]

What are the fixtures rated for? If it's 100W or less, you're OK aren't you?

 

[BryceW]

That's the problem, all the standard screw in lamp holders I'm looking at are rated for 660w+.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Leviton-600-Watt-250-Volt-Outlet-Box-Lampholder-White-R50-49875-000/207106566

 

[AntonLargiader]

I think you're OK. There's a limit with luminaries, but a plain lampholder is not a luminaire.

 

[BryceW]

Gotcha, that makes sense.

 

[matt_i]

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I would make your arms self-supporting from the framing. The garage door track being an open cross-section (a channel) is very prone to twist...theoretically you could go all the way across with a piece of something like unistrut or square tubing as long as there is clearance for the door to roll by. That might be easier than trying to cantilever.

 

[BryceW]

I would make your arms self-supporting from the framing. The garage door track being an open cross-section (a channel) is very prone to twist...theoretically you could go all the way across with a piece of something like unistrut or square tubing as long as there is clearance for the door to roll by. That might be easier than trying to cantilever.

That's an oversight on my quickie mspaint drawing. These arms are actually lagged to the ceiling joist and pulling double duty as the garage door track support and light fixture.