So a buddy of mine at work informed me that he signed a deal with a construction company that knocked on his door after a hail storm. There was a bad hail storm about a month ago in his area. This guy from this construction company is knocking on everyone's door in the area. This company claims that they will supposably find everything wrong with his house and get his insurance to pay for it and they guaranteed him that he won't even have to pay the deductible. The company is located almost two hours from this small town that had the hail storm. My buddy already signed a paper allowing this contractor to negotiate with his insurance company. His insurance is sending an adjuster on Wednesday and this guy from the construction company will be there to meet with the adjuster. I am concerned that my coworker is being scammed somehow. Is this a popular scam? What kind of questions should my coworker ask and what should he be concerned about? Thanks for any information.
A friend signed with a Storm chaser contractor. Scam?
- Thread starter blair683
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First off he should call whom ever is responsible for the contractors registry and research this guy/company and find out if they are a legit contractor. The next thing is research their contracting record and see if there has been any formal complaints or fines issued against them.
Out here it's as simple as going to the contractors state license board and everything you'd ever want to find out is at your finger tips. Also if this guy/company is brand spanking new with no history tell him to run, not walk to the nearest trash can and tear up this contract.
Out here it's as simple as going to the contractors state license board and everything you'd ever want to find out is at your finger tips. Also if this guy/company is brand spanking new with no history tell him to run, not walk to the nearest trash can and tear up this contract.
FullRaceMerc
Well-known member
It sounds like there would be some room for a scam. Mechanics liens don't care who is supposed to pay, they attach to the property & the owner has to pay.
Has he talked directly with his insurance company? Or is the "adjuster" an associate of the contractor?
Does he even have any damage? I don't get the "Let's get all we can since insurance is going to pay" attitude. Insurance is paid by all of those who buy, & makes it so no individual gets hit terribly. All involved share the cost of the damage, & the ins co makes a buck providing the service.
Typical aspects of scams are getting something for nothing, & doing something that might be illegal if found out. Scamees go for the "golden opportunity" & are hesitant to check it out properly because they don't want to be found out.
Has he talked directly with his insurance company? Or is the "adjuster" an associate of the contractor?
Does he even have any damage? I don't get the "Let's get all we can since insurance is going to pay" attitude. Insurance is paid by all of those who buy, & makes it so no individual gets hit terribly. All involved share the cost of the damage, & the ins co makes a buck providing the service.
Typical aspects of scams are getting something for nothing, & doing something that might be illegal if found out. Scamees go for the "golden opportunity" & are hesitant to check it out properly because they don't want to be found out.
Sure sounds like it....
I think if I was in your buddy's shoes - I would just see what the insurance adjuster had to offer and then get a couple of quotes from local, reputable contractors that you know will be there down the road
Another option if you feel the insurance company is not being fair is to hire a 'public adjuster' who can fight for you
Since your in Ohio - here is some more info on Public Adjusters
http://www.insurance.ohio.gov/Newsroom/Tips/Documents/PublicTipSheet.pdf
I think if I was in your buddy's shoes - I would just see what the insurance adjuster had to offer and then get a couple of quotes from local, reputable contractors that you know will be there down the road
Another option if you feel the insurance company is not being fair is to hire a 'public adjuster' who can fight for you
Since your in Ohio - here is some more info on Public Adjusters
http://www.insurance.ohio.gov/Newsroom/Tips/Documents/PublicTipSheet.pdf
This will help you narrow down the requirements some
Search; Building contractors license requirements for ohio
At a quick glance it appears for residential work it may not be required and for commercial work only if the work exceeds $2,000.00. That's as far as I dug which took all of 33.5 seconds. So your results may vary.
Search; Building contractors license requirements for ohio
At a quick glance it appears for residential work it may not be required and for commercial work only if the work exceeds $2,000.00. That's as far as I dug which took all of 33.5 seconds. So your results may vary.
toolmiser
Well-known member
I would worry about quality. Quality or work, and materials. You can buy some awful bad junk for siding, roofing, etc. We had a hail storm that did a bunch of damage about 5 years ago. If you look at some of the places the "storm chasers" did you can tell they were bad. We had an elderly neighbor use one of the companies, and they had a big argument because they wouldn't put the Lightning Rods back on the roof because it wasn't in the contract.
Doc
Well-known member
Not sure where I heard this story but something along the lines of . homeowner had an old roof and the company tried to say it had storm damage. Insurance company denied the claim of storm damage, Construction company left and then insurance company sent homeowner a letter he had 90 days to replace roof or lose insurance since it was now documented he had an old/bad roof.
I did some research on this company. The google reviews seemed good except for two. The two bad reviews said that the company sent some shady crew out that did horrible work and could not be contacted after they left. The four or five good reviews they had were from accounts without pictures or anything. So I am guessing the company could make accounts and review themselves if they wanted. I found a thread on another forum about the company. This thread had about 10 people saying that this company sent shady people to do the work and the work was very bad. When they tried to contact the company they would always get an excuse and could never get answers. I will let my coworker know all this information and what you guys said. I hope he opts to meet with the adjuster himself and find a local contractor to do the work. That is if whatever he has already signed allows it. I am kind of under the assumption that if a contractor has to go door to door to beg for work then they must not be a very good contractor. His roof is only about 10 years old now but he said that a few shingles did get blown off during the hail storm.
welder4956
Well-known member
This is the first thing that came to mind when I read this post:
https://www.aol.com/article/2011/02/03/american-shingle-roofing-company-ceo-arrested/19827376/
and another more recent:
http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2015/02/04/roofing-company-owners-face-charges-in-kc-scheme.html
https://www.aol.com/article/2011/02/03/american-shingle-roofing-company-ceo-arrested/19827376/
and another more recent:
http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2015/02/04/roofing-company-owners-face-charges-in-kc-scheme.html
Looks like this is one of the bad ones from what you found.
Back in the early 90's I signed up with a good roofing company after a bad series of storms, they had their guys go door to door and sign up as many roof replacements as they could, my company was doing the tear offs, they had another company just ahead of us doing prep, the prep company set up needed scaffolding, put up plywood to protect plantings. Then we would come in a do the tear off and clean up and put the ice and water and paper on the roof. The shingling crew was right behind us and would do the actually roofing. Then the first crew would come back and take down all the prep stuff and do final clean up.
This worked because we were doing 10 to 15 houses in the same area, some right next to each other.
No scam just production line roofing. IIRC the roofing company was able to waive or build in most deductibles because of the number of jobs so close together.
Back in the early 90's I signed up with a good roofing company after a bad series of storms, they had their guys go door to door and sign up as many roof replacements as they could, my company was doing the tear offs, they had another company just ahead of us doing prep, the prep company set up needed scaffolding, put up plywood to protect plantings. Then we would come in a do the tear off and clean up and put the ice and water and paper on the roof. The shingling crew was right behind us and would do the actually roofing. Then the first crew would come back and take down all the prep stuff and do final clean up.
This worked because we were doing 10 to 15 houses in the same area, some right next to each other.
No scam just production line roofing. IIRC the roofing company was able to waive or build in most deductibles because of the number of jobs so close together.
I would be extremely hesitant to work with ANY company that are soliciting door-to-door. Soliciting is actually a crime in most municipalities without proper permits (at least in SW Ohio). Contact your local police department and see if they have reports about these guys. I know we stop and ID anyone who is illegally soliciting, and if they've been warned previously they get cited. You would be surprised by the number of solicitation calls....we're able to figure out real quick who the scammers are and who is actually legit. It's not uncommon to have tree trimming crews out soliciting after a storm rolls through. It's competitive and most people don't have a tree-company on stand-by, so it's easy business.
Anyway, absolutely DO NOT pay them for anything in advance: this is how most scams and "construction" thefts occur. The contractor will state that they need $1,000 to purchase materials to start, and they either will take-off with the money or will continue to do some work and obtain more money for "materials" and eventually walk-off. Another common scam is for them to bill out for expensive materials and actually purchase/use inferior materials.
Lastly, if the company is legit, have your insurance adjuster work directly with the contractor. A legit insurance company will usually vet the contractor and make sure the work is satisfactory prior to paying them. Absolutely under no circumstances should you give out ANY money.
Anyway, absolutely DO NOT pay them for anything in advance: this is how most scams and "construction" thefts occur. The contractor will state that they need $1,000 to purchase materials to start, and they either will take-off with the money or will continue to do some work and obtain more money for "materials" and eventually walk-off. Another common scam is for them to bill out for expensive materials and actually purchase/use inferior materials.
Lastly, if the company is legit, have your insurance adjuster work directly with the contractor. A legit insurance company will usually vet the contractor and make sure the work is satisfactory prior to paying them. Absolutely under no circumstances should you give out ANY money.
Any legitimate company in a storm area will usually be too busy repairing storm damaged homes to be out pounding on doors . Beware .Get more than one contractor to have a look . Also beware of insurance adjusters that quickly want you to accept a settlement - you will end up on the losing end.!!
matt_i
Well-known member
It seems legit to want to line up as much work in a local area as possible and keep your crews "engaged" rather than having to beat on even more doors in a larger geographical area to find work.
The potential downside I see is in their unknown craftsmanship. But any company, local or chasing storms could fall into this trap of cutting corners or doing shoddy work like "high-nailing".
Perhaps the counterpoint is to get a written warranty. Which might be good if the company is still around when you need it.
It would also be worthwhile to ask about things like underlayment, ice+water shield, how many nails per shingle they are shooting. Personally I like architectural shingles, Grace products, 5 nails per shingle, and the extra-thick cap shingles.
The potential downside I see is in their unknown craftsmanship. But any company, local or chasing storms could fall into this trap of cutting corners or doing shoddy work like "high-nailing".
Perhaps the counterpoint is to get a written warranty. Which might be good if the company is still around when you need it.
It would also be worthwhile to ask about things like underlayment, ice+water shield, how many nails per shingle they are shooting. Personally I like architectural shingles, Grace products, 5 nails per shingle, and the extra-thick cap shingles.
MattVette89
Well-known member
It could be legit or it could be a scam...hard to say.
I will warn you (or your friend) to read the fine print. My wife's aunt fell for that storm chaser **** last year. Promised to get insurance to pay for it. Did the roof and then insurance denied the claim. Aunt was on the hook fo almost 10k because the fine print said if insurance denied the claim, homeowner is responsible.
I will warn you (or your friend) to read the fine print. My wife's aunt fell for that storm chaser **** last year. Promised to get insurance to pay for it. Did the roof and then insurance denied the claim. Aunt was on the hook fo almost 10k because the fine print said if insurance denied the claim, homeowner is responsible.
While it may be tempting....this alone is a no-go IMO.
ScottsGT
Well-known member
3 years ago we were going through the same thing in my area. Lots out out of town contractors. The only one I heard of bad service from is a company that was already here, but new to the area.
I used a company that is an old name here in town and had great success. They were so busy, we met in early June and they couldn't get to me until the middle of August.
I used a company that is an old name here in town and had great success. They were so busy, we met in early June and they couldn't get to me until the middle of August.
RVDan
Well-known member
Theyll charge the insurance company for the maximum amount of work possible and then do the least amount of work possible and waive the deductible to keep you from reporting it.
Strouty
Well-known member
I thought you friend was going to join a company that chases tornados, like in twister. 
This is exactly what I was thinking their intentions were. Thanks for all the great information everyone. I think the moral of this thread is, contact your insurance yourself and find your own contractor through the help of friends and neighbors.
redneckcharlie
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Waiving a deductible isn't a sign of anything shadey necessarily. It's usually nothing more then a marketing tactic. A reroof here is 400$/square/shingles for a single layer tear off. I don't usually do roofing, but in the last 8 weeks have done 4 insurance jobs for friends and aquaintances. My material cost is less then 20% of the job, so waving a thousand dollar deductible is not a big deal. The margin on the job is still 60%.
redneckcharlie
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This is completely incorrect. All the insurance companies write and break there estimates down to line items and are very specific. The contractor has nothing to do with the estimate from the insurance company. They can however point out something they may have missed. Most insurance companies hold back the depreciated value until the work is complete. The mortgage holder in every job I've done will not endorse the final payment from the homeowners insurance company without verification the work is complete. Some insurance companies, like USAA will require the contractor to break down there invoice by line item as well before they'll pay the final payment. This goes with an inspection and photos as well.
md21722
Well-known member
I thought you friend was going to join a company that chases tornados, like in twister.
Me too.
md21722
Well-known member
It really depends on your insurance. In past cases I give the insurance company a quote from a local licensed guy and they mail me a check. I can do what I want with it.
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I was just talking with him about it again. I told him everything I've learned on here and from research I've been doing. He is now having regrets signing the contract the first day he met this contractor. He said the contract stats that they will put a lien on his house if he tries to back out of the contract. I hope it works out for him.
ard
Well-known member
He needs a legal opinion on the contract he signed.
But, if he is like 99% of people he will not get it- and just hope for the best.
But, if he is like 99% of people he will not get it- and just hope for the best.
While it probably goes on quite a bit..."burying" or "waiving" a deductible can be illegal, or at the least be considered unethical in most circumstances depending how an insurance policy is written.
http://blog.gaf.com/are-vanishing-deductibles-legal-in-the-construction-business/
http://www.askdickwagner.com/articl...egal-for-a-contractor-to-waive-the-deductible
I'm sure there is enough confusion about the issue to be able for a business to do it without losing any sleep over it. Still doesn't make it right...and any company that would use it as a selling tactic would kill any chance of getting my business. Again JMO.
matt_i
Well-known member
I would call that bluff. A roofer doesn't want to invoke the expense of a lawyer any more than you do.
Also it might be tough to have a lien applied for services not rendered....
redneckcharlie
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How is a company that wants to waive a deductible the least bit unethical? Waving a deductible is not illegal either. It's no different then a consumer using a 10% discount coupon. If that truely bothers you, you would be the only person Ive ever encountered that would unobjectively pay the very max for a good or service. That's completely ok if its the case. Contractors on here get beat up constantly for all kinds of things, now saving the homeowner money is on the list as well. Thats hilarious to me.
redneckcharlie
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The roofing companies here tried that tactic as well. Its unenforceable, and illegal, not to mention unethical. Your state may be different, but Im bettn theres consumer protection in place to stop that. A lein should only be allowed if monetary compensation is owed. If your state has a Constructions Industry Division(licensing for contractors) a quick phone call will answer that. The county clerks office will also tell you if they would actually file a lein in that situation as well.
Well now that it's been confirmed they're thieves it's time to go on the defensive. The first thing I would do is exactly what I suggested before, find out if they are legit contractor. If so file a compliant against them that they coerced him to sign the contract,another words he felt threatened if he did not sign the contract. If they want to play dirty, then play the game their way.
RVDan
Well-known member
Not really. Most of the time I submit an estimate, we argue about it for a while
, then they send me a cheque for the full amount excluding the amount of the deductible. Then I do the work and the customer pays me the deductible when they're satisfied.
If I get caught waiving a deductible the insurance company kicks my ***, they demand that if you're going to give a discount, you give the discount to them, not the customer.
jonesg
Well-known member
I have a rule, if they come to my door looking to sell me anything I close it in their face.
People get taken when they get greedy. Something for nothing is the mark of greed.
LS6 Tommy
Well-known member
I thought you friend was going to join a company that chases tornados, like in twister.
Me, too. Your friend should walk away if he can. Anyone offering any type of services that's any good doesn't need to go knocking on doors to drum up work...
On a secondary note, I'm not a total jerk, but anybody that isn't a Girl Scout that knocks on my door to sell something is asked to see their Solicitor's Permit.
Tommy
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It's quite a bit different than a consumer using a 10% off coupon. The 10% off coupon is part of an agreement that a store enters into with a consumer. An insurance deducible is part of a contract between a HO and their insurance company. A contractor is not a party in such a contract..and an attempt to collude with a HO to effect such a contract can be considered fraud...no matter how well meaning.
The state of Texas and a believe a few others seem to disagree with you as to it's legality.
Section 27.02 of the Texas Business and Commerce Code
BUSINESS AND COMMERCE CODE
TITLE 3. INSOLVENCY, FRAUDULENT TRANSFERS, AND FRAUD
CHAPTER 27. FRAUD
Sec. 27.02. CERTAIN INSURANCE CLAIMS FOR EXCESSIVE CHARGES. (a) A person who sells goods or services commits an offense if:
(1) the person advertises or promises to provide the good or service and to pay:
(A) all or part of any applicable insurance deductible; or
(B) a rebate in an amount equal to all or part of any applicable insurance deductible;
(2) the good or service is paid for by the consumer from proceeds of a property or casualty insurance policy; and
(3) the person knowingly charges an amount for the good or service that exceeds the usual and customary charge by the person for the good or service by an amount equal to or greater than all or part of the applicable insurance deductible paid by the person to an insurer on behalf of an insured or remitted to an insured by the person as a rebate.
(b) A person who is insured under a property or casualty insurance policy commits an offense if the person:
(1) submits a claim under the policy based on charges that are in violation of Subsection (a) of this section; or
(2) knowingly allows a claim in violation of Subsection (a) of this section to be submitted, unless the person promptly notifies the insurer of the excessive charges.
(c) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor.
Added by Acts 1989, 71st Leg., ch. 898, Sec. 1, eff. Sept. 1, 1989.
Guess we'll just have to disagree about the matter. BTW I work in the construction field for a small contractor. Your "us" against "them" rings a little hollow on me.
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pcmeiners
Well-known member
"Perhaps the counterpoint is to get a written warranty. Which might be good if the company is still around when you need it."
Written warranty, fair to both sides, with a bond to back it up, contractee verifying bond exists. As long as the bond existed, when contract is signed, does not matter if the company still exists. Here in NYC, I would never trust a contractor's word as to a bond being in place
Written warranty, fair to both sides, with a bond to back it up, contractee verifying bond exists. As long as the bond existed, when contract is signed, does not matter if the company still exists. Here in NYC, I would never trust a contractor's word as to a bond being in place
red61cj5
Well-known member
How can you put a lien on a home if you've never worked on it. I thought the purpose of a lien was to make a contractor whole if he gets stiffed by the customer. If he doesn't let them do any work, they are out nothing. Or do I misunderstand what a lien is for?
Strouty
Well-known member
Most scammers know exactly what they are doing, so the lien may not be a scare tactic. They could say that after the contract was signed, they purchased materials and commenced negotiations with the insurance company and are now out $$$$.
You're right. But here are two examples of charges he could go after.
Labor incurred for due diligence preparing the work order and filing the paper work.
Or worse if possible in that state.
Out here terminating a contract prior to completion without due merit allows the contractor to collect the profit from a project.
Now for either defining those values are always a point of argument between parties.