The VISES of Garage Journal

[G-ManBart]

What is/are the differences between a 954 and a 954 1/2? I ask because I have a 953. So does the answer translate to the 953? Is this perceived beefier handle a difference? The only one?

Pretty sure Outlaw is correct.

A 954 has 4" jaws, a 954 1/2 had 4-1/2" jaws, a 955 has 5" jaws, a 956 has 6" jaws and it's a safe bet the 953 has 3" jaws, but I don't think I've seen one in person to be 100% certain.

 

[Cope]

What is/are the differences between a 954 and a 954 1/2? I ask because I have a 953. So does the answer translate to the 953? Is this perceived beefier handle a difference? The only one?

The model number question was answered. I think the beefier handle is a question of the age of the vise and not the jaw width.

 

[Outlawmws]

Is it actually bigger? Or is it the same handle used on two different vises and the bigger vise makes it look smaller?

Time to measure...

 

[FMC1959]

Is it actually bigger? Or is it the same handle used on two different vises and the bigger vise makes it look smaller?

Time to measure...

^^^^ This is one possibility, another being if the 954 1/2 came out much later, like when Union was about to, or had purchased Parker....could have been smaller to save costs.

Yeah, that makes it total BS on the seller's part. Not holding stuff is one thing, but you've got to give someone a chance if they say they're on the way...wow. I guess nothing really surprises me with CL deals any more.

I think many of us have been on both sides of this. One being someone says they will hold something for you and don't.

Then when you are selling and hold something for a buyer that does not show up......and worse, when you have some integrity and pass on a better offer because you are holding it for a [Putz] who never shows up

But a line has to be drawn; when someone says I AM LEAVING NOW, and will be at the sellers place in 1 or 2 or even 5 hours, the commitment has been made and the seller needs to give that person a chance, otherwise that seller is mud.

 

[Cope]

^^^^ This is one possibility, another being if the 954 1/2 came out much later, like when Union was about to, or had purchased Parker....could have been smaller to save costs.

My 954 1/2 is 1946 vintage. Handle is 11 3/4" OAL and 5/8" diameter.

 

[G-ManBart]

The Wilton magnet strikes again...pretty clean 500S. I had the magnet tuned for Reeds for a few days but sold a couple of Wiltons so I had to start restocking the shelves.

 

[thursday]

I recall someone mentioning baking their vises in an over after painting. I have a few questions about the process before I try it. I've never had satisfying results from paint so I'd like to give this method a try.

Is this specific to a certain type of paint?
Number of coats?
Time between coats?
Bake Temperature?
Roll, Brush, Spray?
Paint preparation?

 

[trijeff]

I recall someone mentioning baking their vises in an over after painting. I have a few questions about the process before I try it. I've never had satisfying results from paint so I'd like to give this method a try.

Is this specific to a certain type of paint?
Number of coats?
Time between coats?
Bake Temperature?
Roll, Brush, Spray?
Paint preparation?

This is just what I do (after any repair, polishing, etc.)

1. Clean throughly. Can't be clean enough. I electrolysis, followed by wire wheel, simple green spray/scrub/wipe, mineral spirits wipe, then let sit for a day (had weird results when went to paint after spirits in anything under 24 hours - paint lifts). Oh yeah, after the wire wheel step I won't handle the vise AT ALL without clean nitrile gloves on, the oils from your skin will transfer otherwise.

2. Tape off any areas you don't want painted.

3. TACK CLOTH to-be painted surface. Stuff is soooo cheap and this step has a HUGE impact on finish.

4. Heat the vise for an hour in an electric oven @ 200F

5. Transfer to painting area, put on 2 coats of engine enamel primer, 15 mins between coats.

6. Back in the 200F oven (some guys use an electric smoker) for 60 minutes.

7. Let it sit for three days. When I have gone to color too quickly I always get lifting (wrinkling). So now I just take my time.

8. Repeat steps 3-7 for three coats of engine enamel color, and then again for two coats of engine enamel clear. Yes, inluding the tack cloth again, just more lightly this time. If I want to highlight the letters or other accents in a different color, I'll do that in between the color and clear and yep, waiting three days after the color, then pinstripe plus three days, then clear.

Takes time for sure, I know a lot of guys probably have quicker methods and better finishes, this is just what works for me after a lot of trial and error. Final tip, make sure to follow the mfgs instructions re: agitation (shaking time/method) and esp. temp and humidity ranges.

Good luck with whatever you try!

 

[KMScott]

Jeff, that is a awesome restoration. I learned something on your painting steps.

 

[thursday]

This is just what I do (after any repair, polishing, etc.)

1. Clean throughly. Can't be clean enough. I electrolysis, followed by wire wheel, simple green spray/scrub/wipe, mineral spirits wipe, then let sit for a day (had weird results when went to paint after spirits in anything under 24 hours - paint lifts). Oh yeah, after the wire wheel step I won't handle the vise AT ALL without clean nitrile gloves on, the oils from your skin will transfer otherwise.

2. Tape off any areas you don't want painted.

3. TACK CLOTH to-be painted surface. Stuff is soooo cheap and this step has a HUGE impact on finish.

4. Heat the vise for an hour in an electric oven @ 200F

5. Transfer to painting area, put on 2 coats of engine enamel primer, 15 mins between coats.

6. Back in the 200F oven (some guys use an electric smoker) for 60 minutes.

7. Let it sit for three days. When I have gone to color too quickly I always get lifting (wrinkling). So now I just take my time.

8. Repeat steps 3-7 for three coats of engine enamel color, and then again for two coats of engine enamel clear. Yes, inluding the tack cloth again, just more lightly this time. If I want to highlight the letters or other accents in a different color, I'll do that in between the color and clear and yep, waiting three days after the color, then pinstripe plus three days, then clear.

Takes time for sure, I know a lot of guys probably have quicker methods and better finishes, this is just what works for me after a lot of trial and error. Final tip, make sure to follow the mfgs instructions re: agitation (shaking time/method) and esp. temp and humidity ranges.

Thank you for the thorough reply. Your work speaks for itself. What's the price for the Snap on paint? I'm thinking of doing extreme green myself.

 

[trijeff]

Jeff, that is a awesome restoration. I learned something on your painting steps.

Hey, thanks Kevin! A compliment like that from a fellow like you really makes my day [emoji106] I am always learning stuff from your posts for sure, so nice to know I can contribute a little something, as well!

 

[deerhunter496]

My Wilton 6" PowRscrew

 

[[email protected]]

The Wilton magnet strikes again...pretty clean 500S. I had the magnet tuned for Reeds for a few days but sold a couple of Wiltons so I had to start restocking the shelves.

Is that the one advertised on CL in Oak Park as being frozen and he had sprayed it down with Krol? I ask because it was deleted before I could find out what model it was

Also finally got a chance to break down the 9400 HD I came down and got from you, now have to get some more degreaser and start to clean it up for paint.

I may want to pick up a C1 or C2 if you come across any you want to get rid of.

Thanks Sean

 

[G-ManBart]

Thank you for the thorough reply. Your work speaks for itself. What's the price for the Snap on paint? I'm thinking of doing extreme green myself.

SO paint is $24 per 12oz rattle can.

 

[drivesitfar]

TJ: i'd love for you to stop by or on your way to dad's house to help me spiff up a few vises and instead of BLO i'd even consider Extreme or Grabber Green paint too. VERY WELL DONE and thanks for the 411 on how you do it.

ALL: i found another Rock Island 574 that weighs about 70 pounds and has 4.5 inch jaws. it's in pretty good shape and has the Birtman Electric badge too.

also picked up a little Reed pipe vise to add to the pile and can't recall having one this small yet. it is for 1/2 inch to maybe 1 inch pipe.

on CRAIGSLIST ETIQUETTE you just have to take the good with the bad and in my experience a LOT MORE GOOD than bad people out there selling vises and old tools.

i've sent PAYPAL to strangers to hold things and it's worked out ok so far, but i wouldn't send a PAYPAL to anybody that i thought was at all sketchy especially if it was for more money than i would miss and then expect PAYPAL to BAIL ME OUT OR SEND ME A REFUND.

 

[va.grouseman]

My Wilton 6" PowRscrew

Real nice Deerhunter.---I'm going to find me one of those one of these days.---At my price of course.

 

[va.grouseman]

Super nice Rock Island, Drive.---That's in better than pretty good shape from what I can see from the pics.

 

[454ragtop]

Getting back to the Parker handles, I noticed the 973-1/2 I have has a lot nicer handle than the 974 I picked up this weekend. Appears to be bigger dia., longer, and nicer ends. Both are later models with cylindrical screw ends versus the earlier meatball type.

 

[Outlawmws]

First things first., don't do this in your kitchen oven. when the paint cures it out-gases, that gets deposited inside the oven. then when you cook food it can out-gas again and into your food...

We are talking about dedicated shop ovens...

Paint preparation? - Clean and oil free before painting just like always.
Is this specific to a certain type of paint? - No
Number of coats? - With the exception of Hammered, you want several thin coats, not think ones...
Time between coats? - Read the can
Bake Temperature? 200-225 deg F should do
Roll, Brush, Spray? - Yes., but Roll may not be the best way to go...

 

[fullthrottle24]

First things first., don't do this in your kitchen oven. when the paint cures it out-gases, that gets deposited inside the oven. then when you cook food it can out-gas again and into your food...

We are talking about dedicated shop ovens...

Paint preparation? - Clean and oil free before painting just like always.
Is this specific to a certain type of paint? - No
Number of coats? - With the exception of Hammered, you want several thin coats, not think ones...
Time between coats? - Read the can
Bake Temperature? 200-225 deg F should do
Roll, Brush, Spray? - Yes., but Roll may not be the best way to go...

So is anyone sanding between coats? I have good results but occasionally the paint will chip from accidental bump. I usually use etching primer on clean bare metal. The chip usually is down to but not thru the primer. Wondering if primer is necessary? Maybe adding the clear will help too. Seems like paint needs a little tooth to increase chip resistance.

 

[compunaut]

I'm a newbie at posting, so forgive me if this info belongs somewhere else...
This is mostly directed to our members & friends Down Under:
I stumbled across an upcoming 'general engineering' tools & workshop equipment (online) auction to be held at GM/Holden Engine Operations in Port Melbourne, Victoria from 15-19June, 2017. There are over 800 (!) lots with literally TONS of heavy-duty shop equipment, including literally dozens of grinders, workbenches (many have attached vise/vice or other eqmt), tool cabinets, parts cabinets, storage cabinets - the list made my head spin!

Not sure if its appropriate to post the link to this specific 'event' on the auction site's website; seems a bit too close to advertising? Everyone can try their Google-fu to find it, or I can provide the info if requested via PM (if I'm allowed), or convince me to post it publicly 'for the good of the thread'.

 

[G-ManBart]

Is that the one advertised on CL in Oak Park as being frozen and he had sprayed it down with Krol? I ask because it was deleted before I could find out what model it was

Also finally got a chance to break down the 9400 HD I came down and got from you, now have to get some more degreaser and start to clean it up for paint.

I may want to pick up a C1 or C2 if you come across any you want to get rid of.

Thanks Sean

Yep, that's the one. I was lucky enough to see it not long after he listed it, and it only took 20-30 minutes to get it freed up and broken down. It just had a couple of spots of rust on the slide that seemed to be holding it in place, and they'll clean up with a wire wheel like they were never there. The jaws and slide tell me it wasn't used much at all, and then just sat for years. The slide was dated 1982, and I think it's been sitting almost since then! It's got one blob of welding spatter on the anvil and a couple of light dings, but that's about if for wear and tear on the whole vise.



I'm almost done with a very cool double-pin Schiller Park C0. It seems to be a fairly rare combination since most of the Schiller Park C0s seem to be single-pin. I really just have to reassemble it at this point. The jaw support sides and slide have tape on them...they cleaned up very nicely.



Here's the naked pic....

 

[G-ManBart]

Maybe adding the clear will help too. Seems like paint needs a little tooth to increase chip resistance.

Clear on a vise is a bad idea if you're going to use it at all because it makes touchup much harder, or impossible.

I've used several kinds of clear, including the expensive, two-part (toxic) clear on vises and it looks awesome...until it gets a chip and you can't easily fix it.

In fact, if you use the two-part clear and wet sand with something like 600 and then 1000, or 1200 grit before a second coat you'll get a finish that looks wet, but what good is that on a vise if you're afraid to use it?

 

[joe.striper]

Clear on a vise is a bad idea if you're going to use it at all because it makes touchup much harder, or impossible.

I've used several kinds of clear, including the expensive, two-part (toxic) clear on vises and it looks awesome...until it gets a chip and you can't easily fix it.

In fact, if you use the two-part clear and wet sand with something like 600 and then 1000, or 1200 grit before a second coat you'll get a finish that looks wet, but what good is that on a vise if you're afraid to use it?

Wait...what...you use your vises??? What the hell is wrongvwirh you????

 

[drivesitfar]

JOE: speaking of using your vises what is the name of the vise you usually use in your shop that almost looks homemade? i'm still looking for one and thought i'd found one locally, but sadly it isn't.

ALL: speaking of the HOMEMADE VISE the owner things this wasn't homemade and i haven't seen it in person. thoughts?

 

[[email protected]]

Yep, that's the one. I was lucky enough to see it not long after he listed it, and it only took 20-30 minutes to get it freed up and broken down. It just had a couple of spots of rust on the slide that seemed to be holding it in place, and they'll clean up with a wire wheel like they were never there. The jaws and slide tell me it wasn't used much at all, and then just sat for years. The slide was dated 1982, and I think it's been sitting almost since then! It's got one blob of welding spatter on the anvil and a couple of light dings, but that's about if for wear and tear on the whole vise.



I'm almost done with a very cool double-pin Schiller Park C0. It seems to be a fairly rare combination since most of the Schiller Park C0s seem to be single-pin. I really just have to reassemble it at this point. The jaw support sides and slide have tape on them...they cleaned up very nicely.



Here's the naked pic....

Im glad you were the one who got that vise since you will do right by it. The listing didnt have much info just huge vise.

Shoot me a PM with what you will want for the CO when your done. Im going to get a old Atlas drill press this weekend so will have to see how the cash flow is.

 

[joe.striper]

JOE: speaking of using your vises what is the name of the vise you usually use in your shop that almost looks homemade? i'm still looking for one and thought i'd found one locally, but sadly it isn't.

ALL: speaking of the HOMEMADE VISE the owner things this wasn't homemade and i haven't seen it in person. thoughts?

You are looking for a Millhoff vise. As I say, it is the only vise
NOT for sale in my shop.

 

[twertsy]

Well gents, I'm very close to 100 catalog references so far. If you folks have any I don't have listed please send them on!

http://toolarchives.com/Vise_Catalogs

 

[bagged89s10]

This is just what I do (after any repair, polishing, etc.)

1. Clean throughly. Can't be clean enough. I electrolysis, followed by wire wheel, simple green spray/scrub/wipe, mineral spirits wipe, then let sit for a day (had weird results when went to paint after spirits in anything under 24 hours - paint lifts). Oh yeah, after the wire wheel step I won't handle the vise AT ALL without clean nitrile gloves on, the oils from your skin will transfer otherwise.

2. Tape off any areas you don't want painted.

3. TACK CLOTH to-be painted surface. Stuff is soooo cheap and this step has a HUGE impact on finish.

4. Heat the vise for an hour in an electric oven @ 200F

5. Transfer to painting area, put on 2 coats of engine enamel primer, 15 mins between coats.

6. Back in the 200F oven (some guys use an electric smoker) for 60 minutes.

7. Let it sit for three days. When I have gone to color too quickly I always get lifting (wrinkling). So now I just take my time.

8. Repeat steps 3-7 for three coats of engine enamel color, and then again for two coats of engine enamel clear. Yes, inluding the tack cloth again, just more lightly this time. If I want to highlight the letters or other accents in a different color, I'll do that in between the color and clear and yep, waiting three days after the color, then pinstripe plus three days, then clear.

Takes time for sure, I know a lot of guys probably have quicker methods and better finishes, this is just what works for me after a lot of trial and error. Final tip, make sure to follow the mfgs instructions re: agitation (shaking time/method) and esp. temp and humidity ranges.

Good luck with whatever you try!

Nice. The main difference in my process is that after electrolysis, simple green, and wire brush. I wipe with acetone. Then I use a thin coat of BLO to seal and prime the metal. Then bake at 200F and let it cool. Then I tape off and wipe with acetone before painting. I should get some tack cloths. Great tip.

 

[G-ManBart]

Wait...what...you use your vises??? What the hell is wrongvwirh you????

LOL....yeah, I don't know what I'm thinking, but you've gotta have a vise to work on vises!

 

[Exmachanica]

Anyone know the difference between a Charles Parker 249x and a 975? Which one is bigger and heavier? Trying to decide which one to buy. Does anyone here own a CP 249x?

 

[G-ManBart]

Anyone know the difference between a Charles Parker 249x and a 975? Which one is bigger and heavier? Trying to decide which one to buy. Does anyone here own a CP 249x?

The 249X was from an earlier series and had 4-1/4" jaws. I've seen a weight listed as 82lbs in one reference.

A 975 has 5" jaws, weighs 104lbs and opens 8", so it's quite a bit larger.

 

[Locker537]

Picked up my first vise today! An Athol 614 for $60. I didn't haggle at all. The seller was nice enough to hold it for me.

I'll get better pictures soon. I'm not sure what my plan is yet other than to use it!

 

[bagged89s10]

LOL....yeah, I don't know what I'm thinking, but you've gotta have a vise to work on vises!

I had to weld something other day iandthe only vise attached my bench was a nice Parker 974. I covered it with a welding blanket and then clamped the piece. I was scared but no splatter got anywhere.

 

[Outlawmws]

Picked up my first vise today! An Athol 614 for $60. I didn't haggle at all. The seller was nice enough to hold it for me.

I'll get better pictures soon. I'm not sure what my plan is yet other than to use it!

Find and buy a backup of course!

 

[kcrccc05]

LOCKER 537 -


Love those Athols Nice Find !

 

[G-ManBart]

Hey all,

I did a little writeup about preventing vise damage and just posted it on my site. If you've got a few minutes, take a look and let me know if I missed anything. It's always hard to spot your own mistakes after looking at something for a long time, so don't feel bad if you find something...I'd rather have it right than protect my ego

http://mivise.com/not-break-vise/

 

[Outlawmws]

G-Man: A picture of a bent Handle might be good support for the "no cheaters" topic. Other than that It looks pretty complete and well thought out to me!

If it were a more detailed thing instead of the 5 top things, you could mention broken swivel jaws as another thing that breaks when using a vise past capacity. The thing is the vise is supposed to be a third hand (or second pair of hands), not a metal forming tool.

 

[bagged89s10]

Got this for free. Howe & FDY no 197 woodworkers vise. Missing the handle but that's an easy fix.

 

[KMScott]

G-Man
Nice write up, maybe you can use this picture for the broken anvil area.

Another area is not cleaning the spindle threads and nut and applying grease, I have seen a few nuts just plain wore out, especially the bronze nuts. Grease on the collar Washer for Wiltons and underneath the dynamic on that collar too to help with backlash. Wiltons do not have a flange casted in to keep filings and grit out of the groove, I have fixed many. Keep up the good work, I really enjoy reading your posts.