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Lincoln Square Wave TIG 200. Experiences?

dr_clyde

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Fellas,

I'm looking to buy my dad a TIG setup for his home shop. I am no stranger to TIG machines, I weld for my living, but I haven't used one of these specific machines. Any thoughts on these particular welders?

Seems like you get a lot of bang for your buck, at only $1500. Hopefully its not a POS. I'm doing a demo with it in my shop tomorrow.

I'm only interested in this machine, although if Miller made something comparable in this price range, I'd bite. Seems like to get 200 amps of AC/DC, you jump to the Dynasty for twice the money.

I want to stick with these 2 brands, as I will be buying from my LWS. Not even a little bit interested in AHP,ESAB, thermal arc, Eastwood, everlast or any of the countless other cheap welders.
 
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rnscustom

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I can't comment but I have one , sat in the box for 6 months and finally my son used it on an aluminum golf cart repair 5/16" . Did the job , I've been too busy to try it out yet . I also wasn't interested in ahp or everlast . Figured I wanted a machine my local supplier could service . I'll be waiting to hear comments on it myself
 

dadz34

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I cant speak to the 200, but I've owned it's predecessor, (TIG 175) for the past 20 years and it still works well. I'm amazed at how well it performs...even by amateur standards. I will be interested in learning what you think after you use it. My guess is you will be impressed also.
 

jubilee

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I have both Lincoln and Miller in the 175 amp range, both are about 15 yrs. old. Really prefer the Miller. I am not associated with Indiana Oxygen in anyway except I have been a very satisfied customer for years. I buy all Miller through IOC and my local welding supply shop says I'm buying cheaper than they can from factory. Might check them out if you haven't already.
 

DerekV

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I've never used it, but the main thing that turns me off from the SW200 is automatic post flow. It's something wild like 20 seconds when set at 200 amps (even if you're peddling way less than 200 amps). Duty cycle is also pretty embarrassing at 200amps, but I'm sure it's a little conservative.

Miller sells the Syncrowave 210. Similar in specs but bigger and heavier (which is weird for an inverter). It can handle 6010 though unlike the Lincoln. It can also MIG with a spool gun. Kinda hokey but pretty neat.

If the post flow thing isn't an issue for you or your dad, and you don't plan on welding 1/4"+ all day everyday, the SW200 should be good. I'm pretty sure you can buy an extended warranty for not much more dough. Brings it to 5 years. I'd do that.
 
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dr_clyde

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I've never used it, but the main thing that turns me off from the SW200 is automatic post flow. It's something wild like 20 seconds when set at 200 amps (even if you're peddling way less than 200 amps). Duty cycle is also pretty embarrassing at 200amps, but I'm sure it's a little conservative.

Miller sells the Syncrowave 210. Similar in specs but bigger and heavier (which is weird for an inverter). It can handle 6010 though unlike the Lincoln. It can also MIG with a spool gun. Kinda hokey but pretty neat.

If the post flow thing isn't an issue for you or your dad, and you don't plan on welding 1/4"+ all day everyday, the SW200 should be good. I'm pretty sure you can buy an extended warranty for not much more dough. Brings it to 5 years. I'd do that.

Post flow really isn't an issue, I get gas for so cheap its almost criminal. Benefits of doing lots of business with my LWS. Besides, this thing will probably live down at around 125 amps for most of its welding.

The Syncrowave would be nice, but it is almost twice the price. If I could find a used Syncro 250 for a decent price, I'd be tempted to go that route, but the only local stuff is worn out old relics with no leads, pedal, or cylinders, for the same or more as the SW200. We have several other welders in the arsenal, so I'm not overly concerned with the stick or mig functions. He's got a maxstar 150s that stick welds nice, and he can use my MM250 if he needs to MIG something.

I realize there will be some shortcomings for the price. I expected a 20% duty cycle, and am not surprised that it lacks the voltage to run 6010. I know this is geared more toward the home shop, and that's ok. It is a home shop.

Honestly the only feature I don't know about is if it will use a "lift arc" style of arc initiation, as well as HF with a remote. There are lots of times where I want to not use a pedal, and I really like that function on my Miller machines. Not the end of the world, but it would be a nice feature.
 

dnschmidt

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Calling ESAB a cheap welder is like calling a Bentley a cheap car. In my experience they are the best of the best and extremely innovative. I'd put HTP in that class as well as their MIG easily welds aluminum without the need for a spool gun. These guys make stuff I consider to be superior to Miller or Lincoln.
 

DerekV

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Post flow really isn't an issue, I get gas for so cheap its almost criminal. Benefits of doing lots of business with my LWS. Besides, this thing will probably live down at around 125 amps for most of its welding.

The Syncrowave would be nice, but it is almost twice the price. If I could find a used Syncro 250 for a decent price, I'd be tempted to go that route, but the only local stuff is worn out old relics with no leads, pedal, or cylinders, for the same or more as the SW200. We have several other welders in the arsenal, so I'm not overly concerned with the stick or mig functions. He's got a maxstar 150s that stick welds nice, and he can use my MM250 if he needs to MIG something.

I realize there will be some shortcomings for the price. I expected a 20% duty cycle, and am not surprised that it lacks the voltage to run 6010. I know this is geared more toward the home shop, and that's ok. It is a home shop.

Honestly the only feature I don't know about is if it will use a "lift arc" style of arc initiation, as well as HF with a remote. There are lots of times where I want to not use a pedal, and I really like that function on my Miller machines. Not the end of the world, but it would be a nice feature.


Sounds like you guys are definitely covered with stick and MIG - those are some nice machines :thumbup:

I don't see why it wouldn't have HF start when not using a pedal...the button on the torch would trigger the HF just like a pedal would (assuming that's what you're talking about). Call up your LWS and ask them.

Oh and speaking of arc starts, Jody at Welding Tips and Tricks has a video showing it off. It cannot start up lower than 20 amps. You can set it below that, but it will give you a blast of 20 amps and then ramp down to the lower set value. You can easily blow out the joint if you're not careful :shocking: Something to consider if you're gonna be doing some pretty thin stuff.

My $0.02 :beer:
 

Loscaldazar

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Check out the HTP Invertig 221. Much more adjustable than the lincoln, more power, and it's a fanastic unit. Don't think I've heard of a single failure in the several years they've been out. Made in Italy (by stel)

Calling ESAB a cheap welder is like calling a Bentley a cheap car. In my experience they are the best of the best and extremely innovative. I'd put HTP in that class as well as their MIG easily welds aluminum without the need for a spool gun. These guys make stuff I consider to be superior to Miller or Lincoln.

I'd ESAB used to be fantastic (and still are good machines for sure), but they've switched to China and had a few problems on their newer machines. The new Rebels have had numerous feeding issues (too much slop in the feeding mechanism) that have yet to be addressed and they've also had problems running on 110/120V power with the machine refusing to run on it because it thinks it is "dirty" power (and this is 120V power out of a home outlet, not a generator). The new Rebels are made in one of Everlast's old factories (the 3 in 1 fabricators were made right next to several everlast machines, then everlast moved to a newer factory and ESAB contracted out the entire factory for the new Rebel). I don't know how their TIG machines are, but the new Rebel makes me worried for the future of ESAB. The older 3 in 1 Fabricator, even being chinese, were much better quality wise than the Rebels. Again, my experience is only with the MIG/Multiprocess machines (which worked just fine on TIG), so their TIG machines could be much better.

100% agree with you on HTP. I'd easily place them above Miller or Lincoln. They're more expensive per the amperage you are getting, but they have more features, capabilities, and are just absolute dreams to run. I recently bought the Pro Pulse 200 MIG and it does things that you'd have to pay several thousand more from Lincoln or Miller (Pulse on Pulse, synergic pulse, aluminum hot start, crater fill, etc and a few features not even on those machines: ST arc, wire pinch, 4T MIG).
 
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DerekV

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Check out the HTP Invertig 221. Much more adjustable than the lincoln, more power, and it's a fanatic unit. Don't think I've heard of a single failure in the several years they've been out. Made in Italy (by stel)

Excellent machines, but way out of his price range.
 

Loscaldazar

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Excellent machines, but way out of his price range.

The Pro Pulse 200 was out of my price range too when I bought it :lol_hitti

Ended up getting it because it was worth the extra cost. Just thought I'd throw it out as a suggestion. The Lincoln is still a great machine and will work well too, but always nice to know what else is out there

:beer:
 
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dr_clyde

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I am a professional welder, I do this for a living. I am aware of the limitations of other welders, as well as their advantages. I have used many, many nice welders from lots of different brands. I simply was interested in opinions on the SW200. It is really the only thing in the budget I want to spend.

ESAB used to be a good machine. Not anymore. Not interested, especially since hearing bad things from the LWS service department.

HTP is not an option. They don't carry them at my LWS, and even if they did, I'd buy another Dynasty before I bought one. I already have a Dynasty 200DX and an Invertec V300 Pro in my shop. I know what I like in welders. If I'm gonna spend the money and hassle of getting a European welder, its gonna be a Fronius.

This is for my dad, and I am not interested in getting him something that he not only won't be able to take full advantage of, but may not even be able to use at all. He's not gonna use pulse or any other features that come on the more expensive machine. Hell, he doesn't even need AC balance or frequency adjustment! Those are there purely because its hard to get a machine without them that's still worth a damn.

I especially don't want to buy a machine that I don't get local service for. I will only consider machines I can get through my LWS, and they primarily deal in Lincoln and Miller. My family has been doing business with them for almost 30 years, and they will get my money long before some online outfit.
 

toddoky

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I use an SW200 everyday at work (header and exhaust system design work) and think you'll find it more than suitable for most home fabrication projects. As mentioned, the arc does start a little hot and that takes some getting used to when welding thin gauge sheet or tubing. I also don't care for the down-slope control as programmed, but it's not much to ***** about relative to the price of the unit.
 

lashlee

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I've got one, like others have noted, it's a fine machine. Post flow is less of an issue than others make of it, and it works great in my garage! I built my welder cart for my SW200 and 210MP. I'm not anywhere in the same field as Jody or Paul but it works for me!
 
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dr_clyde

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Well, the salesman dropped one off for me to try out for a few days. I have a mess of stainless parts to weld this week, so I'll give it a workout and make up my mind.
 

ttpete

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Sounds like you guys are definitely covered with stick and MIG - those are some nice machines :thumbup:

I don't see why it wouldn't have HF start when not using a pedal...the button on the torch would trigger the HF just like a pedal would (assuming that's what you're talking about). Call up your LWS and ask them.

Oh and speaking of arc starts, Jody at Welding Tips and Tricks has a video showing it off. It cannot start up lower than 20 amps. You can set it below that, but it will give you a blast of 20 amps and then ramp down to the lower set value. You can easily blow out the joint if you're not careful :shocking: Something to consider if you're gonna be doing some pretty thin stuff.

My $0.02 :beer:

Easiest way to fix this is to lay a piece of copper next to the start point and start the arc on it, then quickly move to the start point. Copper pennies worked well until they started making them out of plated zinc.
 

DerekV

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Easiest way to fix this is to lay a piece of copper next to the start point and start the arc on it, then quickly move to the start point. Copper pennies worked well until they started making them out of plated zinc.



Precisely. That's where I was getting at when saying one needs to be careful :thumbup:
 
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DerekV

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Well, the salesman dropped one off for me to try out for a few days. I have a mess of stainless parts to weld this week, so I'll give it a workout and make up my mind.



Nice :thumbup:

Looks like this thread is useless now that you can come to your own conclusions haha.
 

Thumper68

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Well, the salesman dropped one off for me to try out for a few days. I have a mess of stainless parts to weld this week, so I'll give it a workout and make up my mind.

Looking forward to your thoughts on it once you have had a chance to run it.

It is on my short list to replace the Eastwood tig I have.
 

man-a-fre

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I have a Lincoln precision tig 225 bought new in January 2007 and has worked flawlessly and trouble free since the date of purchase.Very user freindly tig ,i purchased a ck wordwide part amtcv-10-1-L6 lnear thumb control right away and use it almost exclusively,very seldom use the foot pedal. Sometimes i wish i would have stepped up to a water cooled torch wen welding long on aluminum. Don't be scared of Lincolns they have always served me well.
 

jeepinerdeep

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I got one, only have about 3 hrs hood time. I don't know if its great or not, because I am novice level tig-er. I don't forsee any issue with it. I am curious to hear your thoughts as you know what you are looking at.

Mine so far has positive and predictable starts, and all the functions worked as advertised. The taper off seems pretty abrubt, but I am positive that is my foot.

All the components seem great except the flowmeter just screams bottom shelf. Lots of machine for that money. I even had the lid off.

I do not like the torch hose cover, its unneeded weight IMO, and I'm probably going to remove it.
 

ttpete

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I have a Lincoln precision tig 225 bought new in January 2007 and has worked flawlessly and trouble free since the date of purchase.Very user freindly tig ,i purchased a ck wordwide part amtcv-10-1-L6 lnear thumb control right away and use it almost exclusively,very seldom use the foot pedal. Sometimes i wish i would have stepped up to a water cooled torch wen welding long on aluminum. Don't be scared of Lincolns they have always served me well.

The foot pedal's always the best way in the end. Your hands are busy with other things.

I have no idea how you can endure an air cooled torch with aluminum. Look into getting a nice small HW-20 water cooled torch. They're good to 250 amps and you can just use tap water to cool it and run the water down the drain.
 

zkling

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I think you have the right expectations going in to not be disappointed. The market was needing a ~$1500 ac/dc tig machine from a big name and Lincoln delivered. It is similar in some aspects to miller's diversion line, which it was primarily designed to compete with. Just keep in mind that your dynasty is more than ~2x the price so the build quality and features aren't quite the same.
 
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dr_clyde

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OK, I spent an hour or so monkeying around with the new machine last night. I know it is not an industrial quality machine, and with that knowledge, I need to me mindful that the things I am accustomed to and are used to won't be with this machine. I also need to remember the price, and what the intended usage of this welder is. That being said, here are my first impressions.

34635097663_866987d0c2_c.jpg

Overall, this is a very nice little welder. It does what it says it will. I will end up purchasing this machine at the end of my demo.

In the Pro column:

200 amp AC/DC TIG power source for $1500. Nothing else on the market has this for this price, brand new. Yes there are better 200 amp welders, but for twice the cash. This is huge, and the primary reason for me choosing this welder.

Easy to use. There is only one knob, and only a couple buttons. I had no trouble fiddling with the polarity, frequency, pulser, amp control and so on. I have experience with much more complicated machines, so this is no big deal for me, but for someone like my dad, who is used to a lincoln buzz box, this is very easy to understand. Good for novices.

Power switch on the front of the machine. This made me happy for no reason other than it just makes sense. Why oh why do so many welders put the power switch on the back? I find that annoying that you need to do a reach around and ***** for the power on some more full featured machines.

Very clearly labeled lead lugs. I like the machine labeled + and - on the outputs. This is one of my early gripes with the Dynasty. Unless you know the polarity of the settings, there is no way to tell what is + or -. I know this is designed so you can leave you ground lead hooked up always, and just switch the electrode, but it took some head scratching to understand that the machine switches polarity between tig and stick.

Standanrd DINSE lead lugs. The smaller, less industrial 200A machines from Miller use a smaller lead, which is a pain if you already have extensions, longer torches, or adapters for a water cooler. I was pleased to see industrial standard lug sizes.

Arc quality. It welds very nice, once the arc is initiated and stabilized. Good control with the pedal, and has all the beans it needs on the 240V input.


In the CON column:

Cheesy components. I know this a function of the cost. They had to save a few bucks somewhere, and in a way, I'm happy it was with the easily replaced components. That said, you pretty much immediately need to replace the flow-meter. It is a hunk of junk. The supplied torch is nice, but the leads are very heavy and awkward. They are also very short, only 10'. I'm so used to 25' of torch, I almost forgot they make leads this short.

The arc start is not great on thinner metal. It starts out with a burst of current and then drops to a minimum of 10A. For 99% of things, this will be fine. But for the occasional thin sheet job or repair, this is a major pain. I welded a couple razor blades together, and you can see where the arc blew away the edge until it stabilized.

35444768085_ecfecd23b2_c.jpg

Lastly, you must use a remote of some kind on TIG. I routinely use Miller's "lift arc" where you set the amperage and then scratch start. I weld a lot of pipe, and it would be a huge pain the *** to have to deal with a remote in the field.

I know this isn't a big deal to a lot of home shop guys, but honestly, this is the biggest detractor for this machine for me. If you are welding a roll cage, under a car, on a ladder, on top of the table, inside a tank, on a scissor lift, or any other place besides the welding bench, you really want to remove the remote from the equation. Yeah, you can get a finger control, but its really just another thing to break in the field or add cost, or even to think about when you're running a bead in a 6G pipe upside down in some dirty hole.

Simple is better here. It would be worth at least another $200 to me to have this feature. I would happily trade the pulser AND AC frequency features for this. It basically removes this machine from the mechanical contractor field. I know, I know, not the intended audience. But Lincoln could sell a hell of a lot of welders to small independent contractors that are using a maxstar or multimatic right now at twice the money.

Like I said, overall a good welder. I like it. It met my expectations. I would give it a preliminary 8/10. A 10/10 for the money if they added a lift arc.
 

sberry

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I agree about the remote. I don't currently tig, I have one and have tigged in the past and am fair at it, I just don't need it. But been where we didn't even have remotes and in weird spots where there is a lot going on would be another thing to concentrate on with the hands.As the man said, on the bench not so bad.
I do like adjustable freq though, that would be one of the main reasons I would step up from my synch. The low cost here is a big incentive though. 200 Dyn is well above 2x the money
 
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Loscaldazar

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Totally agree on the power switch on the front. Especially since so many of these either sit on a cart with cylinders behind it or on a table with a wall behind it. It's one of those simple things that almost every company gets wrong.
 

Thumper68

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IIRC the switch on the back is a European standard and is code there, so many of the Asian built machines have the switch on the back so they can be sold world wide.

But in this case I agree the switch on the back is a PITA, my Tig has that and it is always a hassle turning it on and off.
 

moto-uno

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I'm kinda late to this discussion , but I recently picked up a Tig 200 and am pretty much over the moon happy with it . I'm not sure if this is a common occurrence , but when welding aluminum I've found the restart can take 4 or 5 pedal pushes to get the arc to stay on and continue welding .(Things are still hot.) Any ideas ? Peter
 

Downwindtracker 2

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The first ones had a problem and the board is glued down with a lot of heat paste, so the machines were replaced on warranty instead of being repaired. I would buy the extended warranty . I bought the house brand import that sat beside it for half the price.
 

48548

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Be interesting what you think of it as a professional. I bought one a while back because I got it in trade, inexpensively. I've only used it as a stick welder, but I really like it. It has a nice, "soft" controllable arc and is a very nice, convenient package.



I have all the components set up for TIG, but haven't got my shop organized to use this one yet. I liked it enough with stick that I got rid of my big miller dialarc 250 HF, this won't be as capable but will be a lot better home shop alternative.



I trained as a welder, but haven't welded anything substantial for 35 years, just an occasional home project, and a few odd non-critical structural things at work. I wanted the TIG for light weight stuff, and the dialarc wasn't that. The square wave might not be either, I'll find out this fall or winter, I'd guess if my schedule works out near what I anticipate.
Thanks for the info. I took welding 101 and 201 through gcc in Phoenix at pv high. I bought a 210mp when they were a great deal.... and a couple victor vts 2 stage regulator ocy acetylene setups. That said we learned arc on huge millers..... but tig was on the 200.... I am learning still and am happy with my 210mp.... I have thought about the hodge podge tig setup for my setup but no ac....

But I would probably get a 200 if I had to weld aluminum or wanted a tig machine.... hell seeing my father with a victor 315 series and what he did with thin metal impressed me.... but obviously he has never used a tig machine. Tig machine or plasma cutter.... hmmmmm...

I think a new truck... question is electric hummer or 2022 duramax srw 3500 denali HD.

The point was high schoolers trash this stuff and we use them in a community College class... 300 a semester.... pretty cheap for access to everything. So i would get one for your father. 4870adc127d753ad7021254188c28367.jpg2ae518c42a6b520fc631f72724b606c9.jpg33b3de7ea38a149f8ec7b2c92f78aaf2.jpg9c46d9bbe8ae98d3348effa17066c3c7.jpg585343b9429f200337677686fbe19b3b.jpg3f6e89266e93fc57c69f668565983370.jpg67270f596c7d9115f951f104ee66dbc3.jpg2b63cc2800c1f49aa431a8730a1cec01.jpg

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dr_clyde

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Well, a couple years later I do have a better understanding of this machine and I can give an updated opinion.

I stand by my statement that this is a very good value. If you want a nice small tig machine from a brand that is actually carried and serviced by most LWS, this is the welder to get.

The only things I noticed that bugged me pretty much remain the same.

The included leads and accessories are terrible. Replace everything pretty much immediately with CK.

The low end is not great. I didn’t realize how low I went on some jobs until I couldn’t go there on this machine.

The fan is LOUD and always on. Probably helps the duty cycle.

You can notice the difference in arc quality between this machine and pro machines. It welds fine, but there is a difference.

Bottom line. If you’re wanting an inexpensive tig machine from a reputable name for a home shop, look no further. If you plan to make money with it and use it professionally, get an Aspect or a Dynasty.
 
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dr_clyde

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It’s only really noticeable on arc starts on real thin stuff.

It does this weird amperage burst to establish the arc and that can blow away small wires or delicate fitup.

I would recommend having a copper arc start pad near the thing you want to weld to give the machine a place to get its arc going, then drop down as low as you need.
 

GeoBruin

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Thanks for the info. I took welding 101 and 201 through gcc in Phoenix at pv high. I bought a 210mp when they were a great deal.... and a couple victor vts 2 stage regulator ocy acetylene setups. That said we learned arc on huge millers..... but tig was on the 200.... I am learning still and am happy with my 210mp.... I have thought about the hodge podge tig setup for my setup but no ac....

But I would probably get a 200 if I had to weld aluminum or wanted a tig machine.... hell seeing my father with a victor 315 series and what he did with thin metal impressed me.... but obviously he has never used a tig machine. Tig machine or plasma cutter.... hmmmmm...

I think a new truck... question is electric hummer or 2022 duramax srw 3500 denali HD.

The point was high schoolers trash this stuff and we use them in a community College class... 300 a semester.... pretty cheap for access to everything. So i would get one for your father. 4870adc127d753ad7021254188c28367.jpg2ae518c42a6b520fc631f72724b606c9.jpg33b3de7ea38a149f8ec7b2c92f78aaf2.jpg9c46d9bbe8ae98d3348effa17066c3c7.jpg585343b9429f200337677686fbe19b3b.jpg3f6e89266e93fc57c69f668565983370.jpg67270f596c7d9115f951f104ee66dbc3.jpg2b63cc2800c1f49aa431a8730a1cec01.jpg

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That's not Palo Verde High in Blythe is it?

Also, thanks to everyone for the impressions of this machine. I've got one in my sights and it's good to hear the pros and cons.
 

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48548

Well-known member
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
4,015
Location
Phoenix
That's not Palo Verde High in Blythe is it?

Also, thanks to everyone for the impressions of this machine. I've got one in my sights and it's good to hear the pros and cons.
Phoenix, so paradise valley high. Anyone wants info on their welding class can pm me.... great, but like I said through glendale community College.

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