Idea for storing flammables safely.

[Loose Ctrl]

I am building a 12x16 workshop. It's going to be sealed pretty tight. I will be working on motorcycles, pieces of equipment with small engines, etc.. At times, I will be working with the door closed.

I have experienced a fuel fire before when working on engines. To reduce the fire risk, I have considered buying a flammables locker. If you haven't seen the prices of these things, they are expensive. Worth it in some circumstances. I think it's overkill for my little set up.

This is what I will keep in it.
1x 5-gallon gasoline
6x 2.5-gallon gasoline
4x 5-gallon kerosene
1x 1-gallon 2 stroke mix
1x 1-gallon paint thinner
2x 1-gallon denatured alcohol
1x 5-gallonn carb and parts cleaner
And other various small containers of solvent based fluids, spray cans of various paints, cleaners,etc..

I thought I would build a sealed wood cabinet 4 feet tall, 4 feet wide, 2 feet deep, with double doors. I would raise it one foot off the ground, and mount it to the outside of my shop out of the sun. I would put in ground supports so the building wall wouldn't take all of the weight of the loaded cabinet. The wall would keep it stable and from tipping over. I will install steel mesh in the floor and use it for shelves to allow the vapors to vent out the bottom.


What ideas do you guys have? Any reasons why this would be a bad idea? Any ideas to improve upon this idea? I know 4H x 4W x 2D will be tight for everything that I have, but most of the containers will be empty. I can store them in my carport.

 

[cvairwerks]

48+ gallons of highly flammables in a wood box? Not a very good idea, and should you have a conflagration, it will be nothing like how fast and far your homeowners insurance will crawfish on the claim.

 

[kd3pc]

you would be better to just get one of the rubbermaid plastic trash hide units.

As Cvairwerks mentions...that much material may draw the ire of the local folks and your insurance company, if something goes sideways.

almost 50 gallons is way more than our 6 bay shop at school keeps on hand?

 

[rlitman]

48+ gallons of highly flammables in a wood box? Not a very good idea, and should you have a conflagration, it will be nothing like how fast and far your homeowners insurance will crawfish on the claim.

I agree. I actually own two flammables cabinets. Used ones are not all that expensive.

New ones have features like self closing doors and fusible links, for OSHA compliance. You can often pick up non OSHA compliant ones for cheap, from shops that are forced to upgrade, etc.

A flammables cabinet is more than just about dealing with vapors. It keeps heat out, so they're double walled. You could buy a metal cabinet/closet and line or wrap it with type-X sheetrock, I suppose.

I make sure that all of my flammables are at least in metal containers if they're not in the cabinets.

 

[kaiser715]

I am putting up a separate shed for flammables at my new shop. Planning on 8x10, hardie siding, metal roof. Not much worth the $$ and time to build smaller by the time you get into it. I'm putting it about 100' from the shop, and about 50' from nearest wood line. No power to it, so any ignition would (likely) only come from a lightning strike or woods fire getting close. Too much $$ in the shop, tools, projects to risk storing gas, forklift tanks, bulk diesel, etc attached to the same building.

 

[gunguy]

Maybe check with the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) for standards or recommended practices. Are you running a small repair business or is this for personal use? The requirements may be completely different.

Storing it in your carport? Is it attached to your house? Can you reduce the amount you keep on hand and not interfere with your activity?

Other sources of information on the proper storage of flammable liquids may be your homeowner's insurance agent or the local fire chief.

Sounds like you're trying to do the right thing at least.

Jim

 

[matt_i]

As above, buy the older models without the fusible links and I think there's a feature that self-closes the doors if you forget. You can deal with those issues in your own shop.

 

[torqueman2002]

How about an old refrigerator?

Air tight, and insulated.

 

[ard]

48+ gallons of highly flammables in a wood box? Not a very good idea, and should you have a conflagration, it will be nothing like how fast and far your homeowners insurance will crawfish on the claim.

I often see posts about how doing this or that will result in a denial of a homeowners claim- almost as if it has become some kind of urban myth....

"Your insurance will be denied if they find you plugged in a non-UL listed product"

"You do any electrical work without a liscense, your insurnce will deny a claim"

"You don't have a permit and..."

The list goes on.

In this case, is it 'store that in wood' and they will deny the claim, versus 'you should use concrete' and they will pay the claim??

Or is it 'store any more that X gallons ANYWHERE' and they will deny the claim?


It is easy to throw around "insurnace won't cover"... But much harder to accurately provide real guidance one 'what you should do to be in compliance with your policy and state laws'.

(cvair- sorry for quoting and unloading on your comment, not personal)

 

[ford33]

Why six 2.5 gallon gas cans and 20 gallons of kerosene? Seems like a lot for a small home shop.

 

[cvairwerks]

No sweat Ard... Some insurance companies would freak at that much flammable liquid being stored in a single place. No clue what the provisions are in the OP's policy. Mine has some stuff about quantities of fuel in portable cans, but I never keep anywhere near that level at the house. Had a friend that used to drag race and he kept a couple of 55 gallon barrels of racing fuel at the house. Insurance didn't have a problem as they were stored at the edge of the property and within a containment system (read as old jon boat with grounding cables and rods).

Absolute worst time to find out about insurance exclusions is after a problem....

As to permits, licensed trades ect...depends on location and company involved. Have to read the entire policy and all the fine print to protect yourself before you have need to make a claim. Nothing worse than having to make a claim then finding out you somehow voided the policy without knowing it.

Something else to note, the OP listed about 48 gallons of stuff he was planning on storing in the container, but also stated that there were going to be empty containers in the carport too...Doesn't matter if they are empty or full, should be stored with the same level of care and protection.

 

[Loose Ctrl]

Well, that's a lot to consider.

I can't get insurance on the property until I demo my father's old mobile home(MH), and either build a new home or move in a new(er) mobile home. I use the old MH for storage. The MH should be gone by next year. It's so old the county won't give me a permit to move it. I can only get a 30 or 90 day demo permit to take it off the tax record. That's another long topic.

Most of the fuel containers stay empty, but just in case I have more than 5 gallons, I want to be safe. More than 5 gallons on hand is usually during the winter and only when there's a possibility of snow or ice. It's rare in my part of SC but does happen. I also keep four 5 gallon containers of kerosene during the winter for our portable K1 heaters.

My car port is all metal enclosed 20x20 with open ends. It sits about five feet away and beside the workshop. It's about 60 feet behind the old MH.

The shop is for personal use. Due to my health, I can't make agreements to take in work and keep to a timely schedule. So I pick up stuff to repair and resell.I own a lot of motorcycles, autos, and quite a few pieces of L&G equipment that I work on and maintain.

I haven't ran power to the building yet. I have to finish it before I can get to that point. If I want to run my 220v equipment, I'll have to wire it up for a meter panel and install at least a 100 amp breaker panel. I digress tho. That's another topic for another day.

 

[EOC_Jason]

While you don't see fireproof cabinets on CL often, I do see them pop up quite a bit on local auctions, specifically liquidations and some city surplus ones...

Being outside shed with that much fuel is going to subject them to heat & humidity, even out of the sun...

We're only talking about 20 gallons of gas (most of those are 2.5 gallon containers if you guys missed that), and 5 gallons of kerosene...

Here's how I store my gas & diesel in the garage... I don't consider it a hazard or anything... I have a few gallon containers on the other side with my woodworking stuff that is mineral spirits, acetone, BLO, etc...

 

[Loose Ctrl]

Why six 2.5 gallon gas cans and 20 gallons of kerosene? Seems like a lot for a small home shop.

The 2.5-gallon cans I have collected over the years. I used to keep a couple in each of my off road vehicles, and fill them up before going into the woods for the weekend. The Kerosene is to run our portable heaters when it gets really cold or the power goes out.

 

[Loose Ctrl]

While you don't see fireproof cabinets on CL often, I do see them pop up quite a bit on local auctions, specifically liquidations and some city surplus ones...

Being outside shed with that much fuel is going to subject them to heat & humidity, even out of the sun...

We're only talking about 20 gallons of gas (most of those are 2.5 gallon containers if you guys missed that), and 5 gallons of kerosene...

Here's how I store my gas & diesel in the garage... I don't consider it a hazard or anything... I have a few gallon containers on the other side with my woodworking stuff that is mineral spirits, acetone, BLO, etc...

The heat is my concern. Plastic fuel cans have been known to split and leak. I've also had them blow the caps off of the spouts. Plus fumes will eventually seep out and pool up.

Humidity is a concern because water in any form of fuel is bad. Most of my containers are sealed fairly well.

Currently I only have 2-gallons of K1, 2.5-gallons of gas, and .5-gallons of two stroke mix. At most this summer, I'll have 2-gallons of K1, 5-gallons of gas, and 1-gallon of two stroke mix.

BTW, I use K1 as a parts cleaner, sometimes.

 

[EOC_Jason]

That's why I also like them in the garage vs a separate shed... As summer rolls in they will start to swell, when I walk out in the garage see them right away and I can vent them + squeeze to get a little extra air out and they are usually good. Plus the concrete slab stays pretty cool so I store the gas down there and my diesel above.

 

[faiee]

Flame proof cabinet.
Wouldn't a metal filing cabinet be better than wood?

 

[Sluggo0018]

I deal with stuff like this as part of my job.

Your best bet is a listed flammable liquids storage cabinet for all flammable and combustible liquids storage. That being said, they are quite expensive to purchase new. Finding a used one would save some money.

NFPA 30 is the standard the deals with issues like this. In section 9-5, NFPA specifies that not more than 120 gallons of Class I, II and IIIA liquids shall be stored in a single cabinet. Your totals are less than that. They further state that wooden cabinets can be constructed and used if they are constructed using certain materials and methods. This is found in NFPA 30-9.5.3 (3). The specs are fairly involved and are well beyond that of a simple wood cabinet. Further, the cabinet needs to have containment capable of holding 2 inches of liquid for spills. I believe the NFPA standards are open to the public. If you can't get a look at them, PM me. I don't really want to publish the standard here for potential copyright reasons. Even a standard metal storage cabinet would be better than no cabinet at all.

The other thing I would consider (in addition to some type of a cabinet) would be the use of metal containers for storage and dispensing. The best ones (Justrite, Eagle, etc.) are heavy gauge metal, have spring loaded, auto closing dispensing nozzles, pressure relief and a spark arrestor. These can be purchased on Amazon or other locations for roughly $60 for a five gallon unit. They come in other sizes as well. They are a little pricey but pour really well, have flexible metal nozzles and are well worth it in my opinion.

I wouldn't pinch pennies on this part of your work shop.

 

[ichabod]

I just got this from work a couple of weeks ago, it was showing some rust so they need to replace it. (Was in a clean room environment)....... It is a better place to store gas cans and such.

 

[Loose Ctrl]

All good ideas. I think I am going to look for a good used flammables cabinet before I consolidate my flammables to one location. Currently, they are scattered across a few of my other buildings. I intentionally done this to keep the fire danger down.

Sluggo, I'll look into the info you mention in your post. I was thinking about dropping a $100 into building the wood cabinet. Any more than that, and I might as well swing a used flammables cabinet. Then set it up behind my carport. There's no sunlight back there, it's shaded year round, out of sight from most angles, and it stays cooler there.

 

[Loose Ctrl]

I just got this from work a couple of weeks ago, it was showing some rust so they need to replace it. (Was in a clean room environment)....... It is a better place to store gas cans and such.

That is a score and exactly what I would need.

Would there be any problems setting one up on 4 inch concrete block, under an enclosed all steel carport with open ends? I wouldn't place it against the wall, or close to the open ends for it to get wet during rainstorms. I'd leave about 4 inches behind it.

 

[6PTsocket]

I am building a 12x16 workshop. It's going to be sealed pretty tight. I will be working on motorcycles, pieces of equipment with small engines, etc.. At times, I will be working with the door closed.

I have experienced a fuel fire before when working on engines. To reduce the fire risk, I have considered buying a flammables locker. If you haven't seen the prices of these things, they are expensive. Worth it in some circumstances. I think it's overkill for my little set up.

This is what I will keep in it.
1x 5-gallon gasoline
6x 2.5-gallon gasoline
4x 5-gallon kerosene
1x 1-gallon 2 stroke mix
1x 1-gallon paint thinner
2x 1-gallon denatured alcohol
1x 5-gallonn carb and parts cleaner
And other various small containers of solvent based fluids, spray cans of various paints, cleaners,etc..

I thought I would build a sealed wood cabinet 4 feet tall, 4 feet wide, 2 feet deep, with double doors. I would raise it one foot off the ground, and mount it to the outside of my shop out of the sun. I would put in ground supports so the building wall wouldn't take all of the weight of the loaded cabinet. The wall would keep it stable and from tipping over. I will install steel mesh in the floor and use it for shelves to allow the vapors to vent out the bottom.


What ideas do you guys have? Any reasons why this would be a bad idea? Any ideas to improve upon this idea? I know 4H x 4W x 2D will be tight for everything that I have, but most of the containers will be empty. I can store them in my carport.

Sorry, I just saw a pretty good sized one on a local lawn in a yard sale. No idea what he was asking. The guy seems to do it as a business I have seen refrigerated air dryers along with the houshold stuff. I would think he is in violation of some local codes but his property is neat and I hope they don't bust him.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[Loose Ctrl]

Sorry, I just saw a pretty good sized one on a local lawn in a yard sale. No idea what he was asking. The guy seems to do it as a business I have seen refrigerated air dryers along with the houshold stuff. I would think he is in violation of some local codes but his property is neat and I hope they don't bust him.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

In my area, as long as someone isn't running a full-fledged storefront, they can pretty much run a business from their residence. Most people I know, including myself, that have done it, keep a low profile. We keep a tidy property. No junk scattered about for the neighbors to enjoy. We keep the noise to a minimum or at least get things done during the day (9a-5p) so we're not disturbing everyone in the evenings. My neighbor keeps the area liquor sickles (DUI/DWI scooters) running and nothing is ever said to him. His property looks bad and you can tell he runs a business from home. I'll never complain to him, because he works through the day and knocks off before dark. All the dead and wrecked scooters lay around doesn't bother me. It might if I lived in an upscale housing development, but we're outside a rural town in a mixed housing area.

 

[IdahoMan]

Snake-oil, or can a wooden flammable cabinet work well?
(Vid:

)

I've looked at the prices of the metal ones and it's insane. Might make one like this.

 

[bob15]

Snake-oil, or can a wooden flammable cabinet work well?
(Vid:

)

I've looked at the prices of the metal ones and it's insane. Might make one like this.

Look for a used metal safety cabinet from Eagle or Justrite. They would be better than anything made out of wood. They aren't that bad, price-wise, if you have a bit of patience. Took me a month or so before I found two 45 gallon cabinets for about 200 bucks a piece.

 

[rlitman]

Look for a used metal safety cabinet from Eagle or Justrite. They would be better than anything made out of wood. They aren't that bad, price-wise, if you have a bit of patience. Took me a month or so before I found two 45 gallon cabinets for about 200 bucks a piece.

Around here, there's always one on CL for somewhere between $250 and $300.

I've got a larger and a smaller cabinet, each for around $100 IIRC, but I've never seen any others locally at that price (or else I'd have a third) in many years of watching.

 

[Norcal]

Never finished it but got a old (mfg 2014) 1600 ampere NEMA type 3R switchboard that had all the circuit breakers, bus bars, & connecting hardware removed, only have made as far as setting on concrete, & stripping out the dead front, needs shelves, then can move all the flammable liquids out of the shop, & garage.

 

[Loose Ctrl]

I started this thread and I guess I should post an up date.



My need for a flammables cabinet has become not a necessary item. I've properly disposed of all my caned shop products that have been collecting dust. My jerry cans have been divided between my multiple properties and buildings on those properties. I'm also keeping down my stock of automotive and motorcycle chemicals. No more "I'll eventually use this" practices.