New epoxy floor: can't get rid of fumes!!! Help!

[Dave-H]

Hi all -

The new epoxy floor looks fantastic, and was installed by a professional team. I was very concerned about the cold when they installed, but they said it would be ok. I did notice that the way the floor cured was a bit rougher (i.e. it feels much less smooth when you run your hand over it) on the side near the garage door then the other side - probably because it was colder on that side.

But, it looks OK. My garage is newly refinished, air sealed with foam insulation and new drywall/paint. So, it's tightly sealed. I left the windows open for 8 days after the install, then I went on a trip for 4 weeks. When I came back, the epoxy smell was immediately evident when I went in the garage.

If I open the doors/windows and air the place out, the smell is gone. But, if it's closed up overnight it comes right back. Not all that strong, but this is going to be an office and it's definitely too much of an odor.

Then, after 2 weeks of airing it out again, I had to leave town for another month. This time I put a small window exhaust fan in, left another window open as an intake, and left the fan running for a month. When I got back, same thing.

The installer was friendly enough, offered to do an ozone treatment. He called ServePro and they ran it for 36 hours. No effect. Now they are recommending a thermal fogger, but they don't seem that clear on what is exactly happening.

So, I am way behind schedule and starting to stress over there. Possible causes are:

1) it's been cold here in CO and perhaps it's still curing, or it never really got the right chemical reaction upon installation because of the cold, and isn't curing properly. it looks/feels perfect, and I've talked to a few people who say this is really unlikely. I do notice, however, that if I heat up the place the odor returns very quickly.

2) the odor came out of the floor, and because the place is sealed up so well it wound up seeping into the drywall/insulation. not sure if this is possible, but maybe.

3) some other cause?

I am really struggling trying to get anyone to engage this. The odor restoration people aren't sure, but I might give the thermal fogger a shot. The installer could be pushed to remove the floor, but that's a huge PITA and if the fumes are actually now stuck in the walls, that might not accomplish anything. Plus it looks great and I need to move in!

Does anyone have any ideas about how to go about this? My current plan is:

- Based on the assumption that the floor is probably OK, and it's either curing very slowly or I've got fumes stuck in the walls, I think that there is a finite amount of odor to deal with and eventually this will pass. So, I'm buying a big carbon based air purifier and I'm gonna run it, seal up the place, put the temp up to 80 degrees, and let it go for a few days.

- I might try the thermal fogger too, if the odor control people seem to know what they are doing.

But, this is getting a little crazy. The floor was installed at the end of November - see thread here.

Any ideas? Any input much appreciated!! thanks, Dave

 

[Faster346]

That's crazy I did my floor last week and all the smell was gone after 2 days.

 

[SunsetsAndFriends]

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[Antoddio]

Well, it depends on the type of floor, but generally with epoxy at 50 degrees it won't cure and any time it gets a little warmer it will start to cure and smell.

Totally depends if they used all epoxy, polyurethane, etc. Crank it up to 80 degrees and any smell should be gone in two or three days. Put a fan somewhere in your house blowing in and crack a window in the garage so that the small positive pressure will blow any smell out. If you get the air in the 80's your slab temp won't be far behind.

No amount of airing it out will fix it before it cures with heat. The installer should have given you temperature instructions.

 

[Dave-H]

Well, it depends on the type of floor, but generally with epoxy at 50 degrees it won't cure and any time it gets a little warmer it will start to cure and smell.

Totally depends if they used all epoxy, polyurethane, etc. Crank it up to 80 degrees and any smell should be gone in two or three days. Put a fan somewhere in your house blowing in and crack a window in the garage so that the small positive pressure will blow any smell out. If you get the air in the 80's your slab temp won't be far behind.

No amount of airing it out will fix it before it cures with heat. The installer should have given you temperature instructions.

I have asked the installer to let me know the specific materials used, so we'll see. He was very clear that it can be installed at low temperatures, and that they do it frequently. What's different about my garage is that it's very well sealed - I'm realizing how rare that is in garages.

So, maybe the cold temperature slowed the curing to the point where it accumulated in the room over the time I was gone, and now the odor is just lingering in the floor/walls/everything.

Hopefully a few days @ 80 degrees with the carbon filter running will do the trick!!

 

[SunsetsAndFriends]

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[Armorpoxy]

Agree with above, time and warmer temps most likely will cure this as outgassing is still occurring.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Can't say enough how important ventilation is. Lingering fumes from outgassing can attach themselves to objects in the room, keeping the smells around longer.

 

[Dave-H]

Can't say enough how important ventilation is. Lingering fumes from outgassing can attach themselves to objects in the room, keeping the smells around longer.

Well, I certainly see your point

I did ventilate the room fairly well for 8 or 9 days after the installation, which was supposed to be more than enough. It was cold out, but not less than around 40 degrees except a few cold snaps. I didn't really have forced air ventilating the room, though, just a bunch of windows open.

If the fumes got into the walls/drywall/insulation, will they just work their way out on their own? Is some kind of fogging or chlorine dioxide kind of treatment that might help get the smell out? Any chemists onboard?

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

I was referring to objects in the room. Golf bags, soft garage items, furniture etc...
and this would be a smell not a gas. At any rate, this too will pass.

 

[Dave-H]

I was referring to objects in the room. Golf bags, soft garage items, furniture etc...
and this would be a smell not a gas. At any rate, this too will pass.

Well, the room was completely empty for the last 3 months, so nothing really in the room to absorb the odor. Just newly painted walls, new drywall, new insulation underneath.

I ran the carbon filter all night, and when I went in just now there was almost no smell at all. That's encouraging but that thing is loud so I'm not sure I can run it all the time. Maybe at night. Summer is coming so it'll get easier and easier to leave windows open constantly, except when we're shooting video - has to be closed and quiet then.

 

[Garage Flooring]

My application was on a different subject, but we had an odor issue in a home we purchased. We rented a commercial Ozone machine and ran it for several days and the odors never returned.

Important to note that this might not be a good solution for inhabited spaces.

 

[SunsetsAndFriends]

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[Dave-H]

Hard to make sense of all this. It certainly is logical that once the floor is warmed up it'll offgas and be fine. But, I was away from town for 5 weeks with a small window fan exhausting air from the room and a window cracked on the other side of the room for intake.

It was cold much of that time, but there were periods of 5 days or more where it was at least 50 degrees out and sometimes into the 70's. Not to mention the fact that the in the first few days that the floor was in, I had the heater on just to help it cure, and the garage cracked a few inches with a window open.

It's been since November and it seems like no matter how much I ventilate, it slowly returns. Right now I 'm blasting the heat in there, running the carbon filter, and at least once a day giving open all the windows for a few minutes and air the place out. So far no change.

 

[Blk88GT]

The epoxy floor I put in my enclosed race trailer was the same way and installed in similar conditions. The fumes were very overpowering every time the trailer warmed up, for quite some time.

I'd turn up the heat, open a window or two and see how it goes. If you have the fancy filter running and it's working, turn up the heat....

 

[Dave-H]

The epoxy floor I put in my enclosed race trailer was the same way and installed in similar conditions. The fumes were very overpowering every time the trailer warmed up, for quite some time.

I'd turn up the heat, open a window or two and see how it goes. If you have the fancy filter running and it's working, turn up the heat....

Info and opinion from manufacturer:

At this point, it's nearly impossible that it would still be curing because it's probably had 30 days of over 60 degrees in there. However, it might have gone slowly at the beginning, and it was very cold during that first 9 days of and it didn't cure all the way didn't that period. Then, when the windows were closed for a few weeks afterwards, it cured but all the fumes got absorbed into the walls.

So, we're going to try a chlorine dioxide blast, and/or a thermal fog application and see if we can get the odor out. But since it's already cured and we are just dealing with fumes, HEAT will not accelerate the speed with which the fumes will exit the walls very much. A little, but not much.

Now to schedule the fogging. I'm hoping to move into the new office next week, so it's great to at least get some direction on how to remedy this.

 

[NitroShark]

I'm under the impression that 100% epoxy cures with with a chemical reaction from part A and part B . It's not dependent so much on solvent like standard paint would be to cure.

So heat is not as much of a factor as the correct mixture of the parts A and B and the floor coating temperature of 50° or greater. And if it is 100% epoxy there really isn't much of a smell because there's hardly any solvents in it.

Wonder if your mixture was incorrect ? I would also be measuring and monitoring the floor temperature 50° or greater that's really what matters not the surrounding air temperature .

 

[Dave-H]

This was Polyaspartic Urethane, and per the manufacturer if it's at a low temp it will go slowly, but shouldn't fail to cure properly. Also, the floor looks and feels perfect and if it hadn't cured properly it would probably have cracks, residue, softness, etc.

 

[Dave-H]

It takes a few weeks for the smell to fully go away. It cures in about 30 days.

It's been 4 months!

 

[Dave-H]

Update on this: We had someone come and run a thermal fogger loaded with OdorX. Hard to tell if the original smell is still there, because the place stinks of the deodorizing product (a sort of strange floral smell, sort of like bubble gum). But, it's expected that smell won't linger long and it's already reducing nicely.

It's warm out today and the whole place is open, so hopefully we'll know what's what as soon as tomorrow!

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

This was Polyaspartic Urethane, and per the manufacturer if it's at a low temp it will go slowly, but shouldn't fail to cure properly. Also, the floor looks and feels perfect and if it hadn't cured properly it would probably have cracks, residue, softness, etc.

You would have noticed issues for sure if not cured.

 

[SunsetsAndFriends]

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[Dave-H]

Generally it's going ok

The thermal fogging was pretty aggressive, and the smell left over from that process is still noticeable in the garage. That, however, isn't so toxic and it seems to be decreasing a tiny bit each day. I can barely detect the solvent smell and that's only if iI close up the place and then heat it to 80 degrees for an hour or two. Even then it's so faint it's nominal.

Consensus is that the installer was correct that the stuff would cure even if applied below 50 degrees, as the instructions say. However, he didn't realize that it will be off-gassing for a long time at that temp, and once it gets warm again it'll let out all the fumes to be absorbed into the walls.

 

[SunsetsAndFriends]

...

 

[Dave-H]

Well, so much for optimism. It's very hot here in Denver and the office space is just full of nasty fumes any time it's closed up for more than an hour or two. I declared it unusable today. I did a home air test kit (testing for VOCs and formaldehyde) and the results should be in this week.

But, regardless of the test results - it's a bad, frightening odor in there. "Smells like cancer", said one of my neighbors. I can't really be in there any more, and I've got a call in to my lawyer.

Unfortunately I think the drywall and insulation has to be pulled out, reinstalled, then refinished. Huge job, and not cheap + have no workspace now.

 

[Jakesporting]

Hi all -

The new epoxy floor looks fantastic, and was installed by a professional team. I was very concerned about the cold when they installed, but they said it would be ok. I did notice that the way the floor cured was a bit rougher (i.e. it feels much less smooth when you run your hand over it) on the side near the garage door then the other side - probably because it was colder on that side.

But, it looks OK. My garage is newly refinished, air sealed with foam insulation and new drywall/paint. So, it's tightly sealed.


So, I am way behind schedule and starting to stress over there. Possible causes are:

1) it's been cold here in CO and perhaps it's still curing, or it never really got the right chemical reaction upon installation because of the cold, and isn't curing properly. it looks/feels perfect, and I've talked to a few people who say this is really unlikely. I do notice, however, that if I heat up the place the odor returns very quickly.

2) the odor came out of the floor, and because the place is sealed up so well it wound up seeping into the drywall/insulation. not sure if this is possible, but maybe.

3) some other cause?

When you say foam insulation do you mean spray foam ?

I have read stories of the spray foam having a terrible odor if it didn't cure correctly also.

 

[Dave-H]

Yes, closed cell foam. The foam cured and had zero odor after about 24 hours. It was a few weeks before the drywall got put in, so the foam was exposed and during that time and there was no odor at all. So, no reason to believe it was the foam.

 

[adadirect]

Dave-H: I am having pretty much the exact same problem as you, and after searching extensively online for solutions have come to this forum and your post....

We have purchased a new house and one of the options available to us is epoxy flooring in the garage. When we received the house, it was already done so we are uncertain of the exact installation date of the epoxy. However, from the very beginning, the garage has that toxic smell that you are so familiar with. We have inquired the builder about this, and all they tell us is to air out the garage. We had possession of the house in mid-March, and like in your case, our winter was unusually cold and for a long period of time. We have been leaving the garage door open on and off initially (we didn't feel comfortable leaving it open all the time at first), then to the point of just leaving it open continuously for the past 3 weeks. We tested it yesterday by leaving the door closed the whole day, and the toxic smell is back right away to the point that I can smell it half way out on the driveway.

We have asked a friend's builder friend about this, and he confirms that it really should not be off-gassing after this period of time. We are not sure what to do - is it like you said the smell has now gotten into the drywall and insulation? We are getting in touch with our builder again and am waiting for a reply, but I suspect it'll be the usual "you need to wait longer"...

 

[Dave-H]

I did a home air test kit and the VOCs in the office were through the roof - way above the normal range. the only 2 things that could be emitting this much VOC would be:

- bad drywall, but it wasn't problematic/Chinese drywall so that's very unlikely
- the floor - unlikely but certainly possible
- the spray foam insulation - would have smelled from the start, so unlikely, but certainly possible

Yes, it's evidently common for the smell to get into the drywall and insulation, even the studs. But, none of this is very clear.

I have a company coming out next week with professional testing equipment. They are going to review the MSDS documents for the floor and the insulation, then setup tests to try and detect the exact gases that could be leftover from both. That way, we might get lucky and figure out, via elimination, what is off gassing.

That said, it might be something generic or hard to trace. In that case, we need to grind off the floor. If that doesn't work, we start pulling drywall and insulation - so this could get expensive.

Most garages are highly leaky, so they probably offgas a ton but people don't notice because they aren't sealed well and people don't spend much time in them.

More info next week, I hope. Good luck with your issue - at least you can sue the builder if you figure out what is causing the problem.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Gents, I have yet to see a floor "off-gas" past cure. More than likely the space was not properly ventilated once it was top-coated. Epoxy does not have a terrible smell so it is likely a polyaspartic or urethane topcoat that you are smelling.

If not properly ventilated after application the smells can linger and attach themselves to walls or objects in the room. If the HVAC system is in the garage it may have pulled the smell into the filters so change them. Try cleaning the walls and if that fails, try a fresh coat of paint.


Good luck.

 

[Dave-H]

Gents, I have yet to see a floor "off-gas" past cure. More than likely the space was not properly ventilated once it was top-coated. Epoxy does not have a terrible smell so it is likely a polyaspartic or urethane topcoat that you are smelling.

If not properly ventilated after application the smells can linger and attach themselves to walls or objects in the room. If the HVAC system is in the garage it may have pulled the smell into the filters so change them. Try cleaning the walls and if that fails, try a fresh coat of paint.


Good luck.

The room was ventilated for the recommended 48 hours after they applied the coating, and then for an additional 7 days for a total of 9. It was very cold during that time, so the floor temperature was in the 20s and 30s must of that time. After that we closed up the garage and it was tightly sealed for 4+ weeks as we were out of the country.

It was polyspartic urethane, yes. It's possible that it cured enough to walk on but due to the cold temps it didn't actually finish curing, and when we closed up the place it got a touch warmer and infiltrated materials in the room, yes.

The walls have already been wiped down pretty well.

I have a very expensive lab test arranged and they will take a number of samples and see if we can determine the source of the gasses. Hopefully we'll learn more from that.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

Ahhh. 20s and 30s that does make a difference.

 

[adadirect]

The contractor came by to our house and agreed that it smells (I'm not sure who wouldn't agree...) so they are going to look into it and get back to us. We shall see...

 

[Dave-H]

The professional air quality folks came out to the house and had a look. Their handheld PID monitor showed a very high level of VOCs in the space after leaving it sealed up for 24 hours.

They got the MSDS documentation for the spray foam and the flooring and sorted out which fumes/gases may be emitted from both of them. There are some which only come from one or another, so if those were present it would 'prove' the source of the VOCs. There are a few that may come from both, i.e. a certain isocyanate, so if it's one of those we may never know what's causing the issue.

They also spend a while going through my office space and looking for other sources of VOCs. They asked about the age and origin of everything suspicious - the carpeting, ikea cabinets, new blinds, etc. There are plenty of things in the office which off-gas, but nothing that would be putting the VOC levels so high.

I am hopeful, though, that the testing will be useful to determine the source. They are testing for 6 different things. The isocyanates are tested from a pump/collector that ran in the middle of the room for 15 minutes. We busted a hole in the ceiling drywall and put a little 'badge' style collector in there for 8 hours, and hung another badge from the ceiling for 8 hours.

Should be around 10 days for the result. The cost was about $2,200 for the whole thing, and if it gives me a conclusive result it will be worth it. If not, I will have the floor ground off and see what result that brings.

FYI: The IAQ pro's told me that they are frequently called to residences to test for off-gassing of spray foam insulation, but usually people are just complaining of sickness rather than smelling an odor. They said they've done about 50 tests of insulation and have not found any issues yet. The also said that poorly cured spray foam will usually smell like fish, not solvents.

Flooring was a different story - they seemed to think it was possible that the floor was off-gassing and had seen that happen before multiple times. Also, they didn't really like the hypothesis that the VOC's were absorbed into the walls. They didn't think that would produce such high levels of gasses as a few very hot days would likely burn it all off.

Interesting stuff, but I'm bracing myself for an expensive nightmare of tearing it down to the studs and rebuilding. Not fun.

 

[mike93lx]

subscribing for future updates. best of luck and I hope it gets sorted.

 

[Jaguar Fan]

So sorry you're going through this. The whole situation stinks (sorry).

 

[Antoddio]

If you want to figure out if it's the floor, make sure the place is aired out and leave the door open, take a thin plastic tarp from home depot and tape all edges to the floor. After awhile, lift one corner up and stick you head in. Pretty easy. Do the same with anything else you think might be causing the smell.

If it's the floor, it's not the biggest deal to grind it off and re-do. Just make sure the next coating is not solvent borne, which there are plenty of options for. Almost all of them don't stink very bad or for very long, even if they are not ventilated.

 

[LegacyIndustrial]

If you want to figure out if it's the floor, make sure the place is aired out and leave the door open, take a thin plastic tarp from home depot and tape all edges to the floor. After awhile, lift one corner up and stick you head in. Pretty easy. Do the same with anything else you think might be causing the smell.

If it's the floor, it's not the biggest deal to grind it off and re-do. Just make sure the next coating is not solvent borne, which there are plenty of options for. Almost all of them don't stink very bad or for very long, even if they are not ventilated.

Like this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[adadirect]

So the developer brought the contractor in to assess - and they agreed that the smell is lingering for too long and it's too strong. They said it's the first time this has happened to them and they have no idea what happened. Since then they've decided that the solution is to coat the floor again, without removing the original layer. This was just done last week and we are now waiting to see if this will solve it. We were questioning why they wouldn't grind the layer off, but of course they don't want to do it. I do hope this will fix the problem but somehow i feel like it won't because they didn't remove the original layer. Stay tuned...

 

[ard]

Since then they've decided that the solution is to coat the floor again, without removing the original layer...

Wait, what?

Did you get any expert opinions from anyone OTHER than the people paying for this?