Need4racin
Banned
Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. Modified tools shouldn't be warrantied. That's not the manufactures fault you had to modify the tool.
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Finally denied warranty at Sears for C-man!
- Thread starter Toolhorder
- Start date
Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. Modified tools shouldn't be warrantied. That's not the manufactures fault you had to modify the tool.
I'm sure this isn't popular but considering that a big part of the "I buy all these tools, I'm a professional mechanic" attitude, if I recall, the warranty applies to hand tools used in commercial applications for only 90 days.
So at least under those circumstances, its pretty much all fraud by even going in to swap something you've had for more than 3 months you use at work.
I don't know anyone who would do that!
So at least under those circumstances, its pretty much all fraud by even going in to swap something you've had for more than 3 months you use at work.
I don't know anyone who would do that!
That only applies to power tools. All the tools i have returned to Sears are new defects, their QC is poor.
wantedabiggergarage
Member Emeritus
I bet you actually do, and don't realize it. Carpenters, mechanics, etc. who use tools in their day to day operations. Heck, if you have ever been paid to help a neighbor install something on their car, then you have done it professionally.
And if Sears ever chose to follow through on this, then, they would have an issue with their employee's in their auto shop (Like JCPenny did years ago), and they would have to change somethings. (Craftsman Professional stuff, the fact they sell the same tools for more $$ at places like Fastenal, that have the same finish, not just the black finish).
This topic comes up and always causes disagreement. Sometimes it even gets ugly and the thread goes away.
Guess the sarcasm didn't carry well as it usually doesn't I suppose. I agree with you 100%
My personal policy is like many others, buy it and use it. If it fails? Replace it. If it wears out? Buy a new one since you got the use you should have out of it. Is it hard to say no to a new free tool. Sure, sometimes. But I would feel pretty shady bringing in a 40 year old ratchet that's rusted and busted that I found on the side of the road and walking away with a shiny new one. That's the battle some of us win, some lose, and some don't even care to have. That's the only difference.
To each his own. They can't tell you didn't buy it 40 years ago, and I doubt they will make it harder to swap. The "honest guys" will always suffer because of the others, with higher prices, poor quality etc. It's a fact of life we're not going to change.
Ironically, my only snap on tool is a blue point crescent wrench that is my only wrench that's busted. But I won't be getting a new one since I didn't buy it, and I really don't know where it came from.
My personal policy is like many others, buy it and use it. If it fails? Replace it. If it wears out? Buy a new one since you got the use you should have out of it. Is it hard to say no to a new free tool. Sure, sometimes. But I would feel pretty shady bringing in a 40 year old ratchet that's rusted and busted that I found on the side of the road and walking away with a shiny new one. That's the battle some of us win, some lose, and some don't even care to have. That's the only difference.
To each his own. They can't tell you didn't buy it 40 years ago, and I doubt they will make it harder to swap. The "honest guys" will always suffer because of the others, with higher prices, poor quality etc. It's a fact of life we're not going to change.
Ironically, my only snap on tool is a blue point crescent wrench that is my only wrench that's busted. But I won't be getting a new one since I didn't buy it, and I really don't know where it came from.
Rigmaster
Well-known member
I'm with you (barely) on the "worn out" socket, since it no longer provides the "satisfaction" that Sears "guarantees", but to expect them to replace a wrench because someone ground the open end out to a larger size is BS. Someone else modified that wrench, then you bought it at the flea market but didn't notice it was modified. Sorry dude, but you're stuck with it- NO WAY should Sears be obligated to replace it.
Sure, some people will argue that if you take it back to Sears enough times, one of them WILL replace it for you- but I think it's wrong of you to expect them to do so.
The way I recall it, the Craftsman hand tool warranty basically says that they will replace any tool that does not provide complete satisfaction to the customer. What that means to me is one thing, as it obviously means alot of different things to different people.
One day Sears will have no choice but to either:
a.- modifiy or eliminate the hand tool warranty
or
b.- make the tools so cheap that they aren't worth purchasing in the first place
Flame away, I'm a big boy- I can take it.....
Sure, some people will argue that if you take it back to Sears enough times, one of them WILL replace it for you- but I think it's wrong of you to expect them to do so.
The way I recall it, the Craftsman hand tool warranty basically says that they will replace any tool that does not provide complete satisfaction to the customer. What that means to me is one thing, as it obviously means alot of different things to different people.
One day Sears will have no choice but to either:
a.- modifiy or eliminate the hand tool warranty
or
b.- make the tools so cheap that they aren't worth purchasing in the first place
Flame away, I'm a big boy- I can take it.....
OP
Toolhorder
Well-known member
I'm with you (barely) on the "worn out" socket, since it no longer provides the "satisfaction" that Sears "guarantees", but to expect them to replace a wrench because someone ground the open end out to a larger size is BS. Someone else modified that wrench, then you bought it at the flea market but didn't notice it was modified. Sorry dude, but you're stuck with it- NO WAY should Sears be obligated to replace it.
Sure, some people will argue that if you take it back to Sears enough times, one of them WILL replace it for you- but I think it's wrong of you to expect them to do so.
The way I recall it, the Craftsman hand tool warranty basically says that they will replace any tool that does not provide complete satisfaction to the customer. What that means to me is one thing, as it obviously means alot of different things to different people.
One day Sears will have no choice but to either:
a.- modifiy or eliminate the hand tool warranty
or
b.- make the tools so cheap that they aren't worth purchasing in the first place
Flame away, I'm a big boy- I can take it.....
Nah, No flame from me. I agree actually and kinda feel bad about taking it back and getting into lawyer mode with the clerks about the wrench but like I've been saying the issue I have is the making up of warranty policy by employees. They didn't know I picked up the wrench at the flea market. The warranty says nothing about being void if you grind it, it has rust, you bring more than 3 a day for replacement, the laser etching wore off, etc..
Exactly why the Craftsman warranty will be gone in the future or......
Next time you go to Sears and ask for a replacement your tool may be stamped "China".
Lowe's has done this with several Kobalt items.
I hear people always say that if the Craftsman warranty changes then they won't shop at Sears anymore.
Where will they go to get tools?
They will never pay the money for tool truck. Harbor freights are few and far between. Auto parts stores tools aren't high qualilty and some of them require a receipt and probably won't accept abused tools either.
There is always Walmarts Stanley tools. Seem to be OK tools but the price seems to be as high as Craftsman and they have NO selection.
Next time you go to Sears and ask for a replacement your tool may be stamped "China".
Lowe's has done this with several Kobalt items.
I hear people always say that if the Craftsman warranty changes then they won't shop at Sears anymore.
Where will they go to get tools?
They will never pay the money for tool truck. Harbor freights are few and far between. Auto parts stores tools aren't high qualilty and some of them require a receipt and probably won't accept abused tools either.
There is always Walmarts Stanley tools. Seem to be OK tools but the price seems to be as high as Craftsman and they have NO selection.
redsky49
Well-known member
Allright, I'll say it. You're a d-bag! And you are royally f***ing it up for the rest of us.
It doesn't work trying to hide behind the warranty wording, you are trying to get something for nothing by gaming the system! Pure and simple. I wouldn't be at all surprised if, in the future, you had to produce the original sales slip for any return. Or see this very liberal warranty just disappear. The major concern here is the lack of integrity you display, not the details of the warranty.
As much as Sears gets ragged on, they provide a very serviceable line of tools that have served generations of Americans, myself included, and, like a lot of retailers, are having some real financial challenges. If you don't like their policies, shop elsewhere. They are probably better off without you. Try to pull this kind of **** with any other tool vendor and see what happens.
Better yet, call your mother and tell her she failed to teach you about honor and integrity.
And yes, this did push my buttons. Apologies for letting this get to the personal level but I'm venting.
It doesn't work trying to hide behind the warranty wording, you are trying to get something for nothing by gaming the system! Pure and simple. I wouldn't be at all surprised if, in the future, you had to produce the original sales slip for any return. Or see this very liberal warranty just disappear. The major concern here is the lack of integrity you display, not the details of the warranty.
As much as Sears gets ragged on, they provide a very serviceable line of tools that have served generations of Americans, myself included, and, like a lot of retailers, are having some real financial challenges. If you don't like their policies, shop elsewhere. They are probably better off without you. Try to pull this kind of **** with any other tool vendor and see what happens.
Better yet, call your mother and tell her she failed to teach you about honor and integrity.
And yes, this did push my buttons. Apologies for letting this get to the personal level but I'm venting.
OP
Toolhorder
Well-known member
This is happening anyway because CEO's don't care about America anymore just the bottom line.
Hmm, Snap-On? Mac? Matco? Cornwell? They all come by the shop. If I need store to go to grainger they sell proto, blackhawk, etc..
I have more truck tools then C-man tools easily. Professional mechanics don't generally go to Sears as a first choice. That's why Sears started their "professional" line aimed at techs that buy off the truck. Usually only lube guys and beginning techs have C-man.
OP
Toolhorder
Well-known member
Sokoloff
Well-known member
IMO, doesn't matter if you bought them used or not. (The warranty doesn't say anything about original purchaser; adverts used to have Mario Andretti talking about his grandpa's tools, etc. The warranty says "your Craftsman hand tool". The minute you paid for it at the swap meet, it became "your Craftsman hand tool".
Socket: I'd have no problems asking for it to be replaced from wear. (I can see where others do, but for me that's on the "right" side of the line.)
Ground on wrench: That's so far on the wrong side of the line that the line isn't even visible from where you are.
Socket: I'd have no problems asking for it to be replaced from wear. (I can see where others do, but for me that's on the "right" side of the line.)
Ground on wrench: That's so far on the wrong side of the line that the line isn't even visible from where you are.
rjohnson
Well-known member
This is a question of personal moral, do YOU feel they should have replaced it? Legally, they are obligated to replace it. Many people would do the same. I won't judge you by it, I very well may have done the same. Technically, though, you could sue them if they had refused warranty-just giving my opinion based on a legal standpoint.
I think that just about sums it up.
OP
Toolhorder
Well-known member
BackTracker
Well-known member
Wait, what?
Since when did CEO's ever care about anything else? It's their JOB to protect the stockholders.
Public Corporations are out to MAKE MONEY for their STOCKHOLDERS. PERIOD. To even suggest anything else is absurd.
Consumers
<------CEOFurthermore,
Management------->
__________________Retail employees
.
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mrshaun
Well-known member
If you bring me a wrench that you changed it from its original version, youwill not get a warranty.if you cut one in half would you expect them to give you two new ones if one end wore out or broke?
socket warranty was good, but the wrench was just wrong. this is how companies get a bad wrap. one guy gets pissed off because he had a screwed up item and it was not a warranty case. ask the guys here if you have warranty questions in the future before you go to the store and bug the hired help.
socket warranty was good, but the wrench was just wrong. this is how companies get a bad wrap. one guy gets pissed off because he had a screwed up item and it was not a warranty case. ask the guys here if you have warranty questions in the future before you go to the store and bug the hired help.
BackTracker
Well-known member
On A side note, I'm quite proud of myself for working both of those monkeys into that post with great relevance.
OP
Toolhorder
Well-known member
ya but SO doesn't have the same warranty so you can't really compare apples to apples here.
When I said I would cut it in half if they didn't return it I meant I would keep the box end half and use it not try and return it. Hope that makes sense. The open end was junk not the box end.
mjozefow
Well-known member
So no one here ever grabs a c-man tool for a job that might screw up a good tool? Right or wrong I'll torque the s*** out of a C-man ratchet but I'll grab a breaker if I'm using my higher end ratchets. If I KNOW a c-man will break I won't do it, but I'll take risks I wouldn't take with my SO or Wrights. And they would likely take it.
The warranty is what makes the tools worth having. On their own the newer stuff really is OK at best. Use a standard craftsman screwdriver lately?
The warranty is what makes the tools worth having. On their own the newer stuff really is OK at best. Use a standard craftsman screwdriver lately?
Here2Learn
Well-known member
Toolhorder, your thread title is "Finally denied warranty at Sears for C-man!", but you left the store with a new socket a new wrench, so the warranty was honored, correct?
Did the tools fail to provide satisfaction after you used them, or did you buy them with the intent to attempt a warranty exchange?
What did the flea market seller say when you took them back?
In my opinion, you ARE putting them out, as well as all the future customers of Sears Craftsman tools.
On the flaming side of things, I think no one can point out your character better than what you have already done. Congratulations, sir. You traded it all for 1 socket and one wrench.
Did the tools fail to provide satisfaction after you used them, or did you buy them with the intent to attempt a warranty exchange?
What did the flea market seller say when you took them back?
In my opinion, you ARE putting them out, as well as all the future customers of Sears Craftsman tools.
On the flaming side of things, I think no one can point out your character better than what you have already done. Congratulations, sir. You traded it all for 1 socket and one wrench.
dustin19
Banned
it should my lifetime thats what it means to me if it doesnt then im returning it. and if sears changes there warranty i know i wont be buying from them anymore ill go back to mac and snap on
it should my lifetime thats what it means to me if it doesnt then im returning it. and if sears changes there warranty i know i wont be buying from them anymore ill go back to mac and snap on
You will get more warranty problems with MAC or Snap-on, than you will ever get with Sears, and be paying alot more money. I don't see the logic in that. I have seen warranty turn downs from the Cornwell dealer............A guy ground down a new chrome socket, and then tried to warranty it, NOPE, too bad, grind down a cheap Harbor Freight socket, that is what they are for, don't alter tools, and expect warranty claim with any company IMHO. For any tool that does fail for legitimate reasons, the only company that gave me a hard time, was a truck tool brand. All legitimate claims are usually done with a smile, some people expect too much.
Major Ramifications
Well-known member
Here's a great idea: learn how to conjugate irregular verbs! I think you will find it to be a useful skill and may even cause Sears employees to take you more seriously. In other words, your whole story really "grinded" my gears.
Rolling_Thunder
Well-known member
I pulled this from the Consumerist Website: http://consumerist.com/2009/03/sears-clarifies-craftsman-tools-warranty.html
Straight from a Sears VP!
This part says it all "EVER FAILS TO PROVIDE COMPLETE SATISFACTION", That says to me whether it breaks or wears out we'll replace it!! Now it doesnt say anything about modifying it BUT I wouldnt return a purposely modified tool for replacement!! Lets be honest if it didnt have a lifetime warranty for the price of their tools and their not so great quality anymore I wouldnt be buying them!
If for any reason your Craftsman hand tool ever fails to provide complete satisfaction,return it to any Sears store or other Craftsman outlet in the United States for free repair or replacement.
Earlier this month, we noted how a reader was having trouble getting Sears to properly honor the lifetime warranty on his Craftsman tools. Now David Figler, a vice president of the company, has responded and said, "We stand behind the warranty—complete satisfaction—period." Below is his email, and a portion of the memo he sent to Sears stores on the matter.
“
I work at Sears Holdings to develop and promote Craftsman tools. I am sorry to hear that we did not get it right the first time Brian visited his Sears store for a Warranty exchange on Craftsman tools. Unfortunately, we do not always get 100% execution from all our associates on our warranty exchanges, although we are always striving towards it.
In response to your column, I have worked internally to be explicit on the issues pointed out to make sure we do not disappoint again. Craftsman tools have a heritage of performance and trust. I want to assure you and your readers we stand behind the warranty ? complete satisfaction ? period. Though disappointed with Brian's experience, I'm grateful that I could learn of it and take steps to prevent a similar mistake in our stores for the next customer. An excerpt from the internal communication to our store associates is below.
Subject: Craftsman Hand Tool Lifetime Warranty
There have been several news articles and emails regarding customers being denied Craftsman Hand Tool exchanges for reasons that are not part of the warranty. We've had specific complaints of denied exchanges based on:
- Tools having rust on them
- A 3 Piece per day limit on exchanges
These are NOT valid reasons for denying our customers their right to exchange their Craftsman Tools under the Lifetime Warranty.
The warranty states: "If for any reason your Craftsman hand tool ever fails to provide complete satisfaction, return it to any Sears store or other Craftsman outlet in the United States for free repair or replacement. This warranty gives you specific legal rights and you may also have other rights which vary from state to state."
Our Craftsman Hand Tool Lifetime Warranty is one of the most important competitive advantages we have in the market. It is crucial that we ensure all of our sales associates are trained to understand all the hand tools that are covered under this warranty.
Straight from a Sears VP!
This part says it all "EVER FAILS TO PROVIDE COMPLETE SATISFACTION", That says to me whether it breaks or wears out we'll replace it!! Now it doesnt say anything about modifying it BUT I wouldnt return a purposely modified tool for replacement!! Lets be honest if it didnt have a lifetime warranty for the price of their tools and their not so great quality anymore I wouldnt be buying them!
If for any reason your Craftsman hand tool ever fails to provide complete satisfaction,return it to any Sears store or other Craftsman outlet in the United States for free repair or replacement.
Earlier this month, we noted how a reader was having trouble getting Sears to properly honor the lifetime warranty on his Craftsman tools. Now David Figler, a vice president of the company, has responded and said, "We stand behind the warranty—complete satisfaction—period." Below is his email, and a portion of the memo he sent to Sears stores on the matter.
“
I work at Sears Holdings to develop and promote Craftsman tools. I am sorry to hear that we did not get it right the first time Brian visited his Sears store for a Warranty exchange on Craftsman tools. Unfortunately, we do not always get 100% execution from all our associates on our warranty exchanges, although we are always striving towards it.
In response to your column, I have worked internally to be explicit on the issues pointed out to make sure we do not disappoint again. Craftsman tools have a heritage of performance and trust. I want to assure you and your readers we stand behind the warranty ? complete satisfaction ? period. Though disappointed with Brian's experience, I'm grateful that I could learn of it and take steps to prevent a similar mistake in our stores for the next customer. An excerpt from the internal communication to our store associates is below.
Subject: Craftsman Hand Tool Lifetime Warranty
There have been several news articles and emails regarding customers being denied Craftsman Hand Tool exchanges for reasons that are not part of the warranty. We've had specific complaints of denied exchanges based on:
- Tools having rust on them
- A 3 Piece per day limit on exchanges
These are NOT valid reasons for denying our customers their right to exchange their Craftsman Tools under the Lifetime Warranty.
The warranty states: "If for any reason your Craftsman hand tool ever fails to provide complete satisfaction, return it to any Sears store or other Craftsman outlet in the United States for free repair or replacement. This warranty gives you specific legal rights and you may also have other rights which vary from state to state."
Our Craftsman Hand Tool Lifetime Warranty is one of the most important competitive advantages we have in the market. It is crucial that we ensure all of our sales associates are trained to understand all the hand tools that are covered under this warranty.
EricF
Member
I haven't had Sears give me a hard time about a tool exchange before, but my tools aren't used daily anymore either. I had a very old ratchet that lasted about 20yrs and the pawl finally wore out and spun on its own. I wanted a new pawl because the ratchet was a classic "Sear's Best" series, and I just liked it. well it isn't made anymore and the guy wanted to give me a new ratchet instead of a new pawl. In the end I have a broke Sear's Best ratchet that I can't find a pawl for, as I've taken apart my other craftsman ratchets andthe pawl's don't match up. fortunately I forgot about it!
I've never had an issue with Husky's at home depot, and I admit I was given a box or two of scrap whatever tools and home depot didn't care, they saw the husky etched and swapped it, no questions asked.
at autozone they have great neck and duralast (their house brand).
well the duralast warranty is unconditional including your money back. no receipt needed.
in actuality, the greatneck is the same as well. duralast tools aren't great, but they hold up well for the average person.
I broke a 1/2" to 3/8" adapter trying to loosen a head bolt on a toyota truck, had to use the 3/8" socket due to the size. After the 3rd one (and yeah, I used the duralast one I had b/c AZ was closer than Sear's). the guy at AZ decided to deny me my unconditional guarantee because I was "abusing" the tool.
So as luck would have it, the store manager came back from lunch and heard my voice getting louder quoting the guarantee and the guy behind the counter saying I don't know how to use tools, the manager saved his job and re-iterated that that the duralast warranty is uncondtional, doesn't matter what happens to it or how it's used. As long as I had the receipt OR they can read duralast on the tool, there was no issue at anytime. the store manager also told his guy, same goes for great neck.
so I left with a smug look on my face! And fortunately, that adapter did the trick, as they didn't have anymore!
I've never had an issue with Husky's at home depot, and I admit I was given a box or two of scrap whatever tools and home depot didn't care, they saw the husky etched and swapped it, no questions asked.
at autozone they have great neck and duralast (their house brand).
well the duralast warranty is unconditional including your money back. no receipt needed.
in actuality, the greatneck is the same as well. duralast tools aren't great, but they hold up well for the average person.
I broke a 1/2" to 3/8" adapter trying to loosen a head bolt on a toyota truck, had to use the 3/8" socket due to the size. After the 3rd one (and yeah, I used the duralast one I had b/c AZ was closer than Sear's). the guy at AZ decided to deny me my unconditional guarantee because I was "abusing" the tool.
So as luck would have it, the store manager came back from lunch and heard my voice getting louder quoting the guarantee and the guy behind the counter saying I don't know how to use tools, the manager saved his job and re-iterated that that the duralast warranty is uncondtional, doesn't matter what happens to it or how it's used. As long as I had the receipt OR they can read duralast on the tool, there was no issue at anytime. the store manager also told his guy, same goes for great neck.
so I left with a smug look on my face! And fortunately, that adapter did the trick, as they didn't have anymore!
OP
Toolhorder
Well-known member
Sorry I didn't know you were grading me...It's the internet lighten up
AMEN to that!.
mrshaun
Well-known member
abuse of tools ( then go warranty them out ) will cause the prices to go up.
Keep that in mind the next time you try and pull a fast one on a company. I can tell when someone really abused a tool. a screwdriver that the blade is bent ( and it was a phillips) well it was used an an alignment tool ( not intended function ) the blade was C shaped. guy knew it wasnt warranty material, but he tried it anyways. use the tools properly
Keep that in mind the next time you try and pull a fast one on a company. I can tell when someone really abused a tool. a screwdriver that the blade is bent ( and it was a phillips) well it was used an an alignment tool ( not intended function ) the blade was C shaped. guy knew it wasnt warranty material, but he tried it anyways. use the tools properly