Raising garage due to flooding.

[Sparkynutz]

I'm looking to jack up a 26x26 detatched garage and place 3, possibly 4 coarses of concrete block under the walls with rebar into old slab and horizontal reinforcement. Next ill set garage back down on the blocks and fill inside and out to proper height then pour a new slab inside the garage. Anyone else do this or have any input on fill material or thoughts?


Here's the back story why I'm doing this-
I bought a newer house this summer and the previous owner built a detatched garage in the lowest area of the yard behind the house 2 years ago. After moving in I've had the garage floor flood almost every hard rain we get. The grading all the way around it slopes toward the garage and water runs right in under the garage door. The neighbors warned the previous owner that he should build it up higher or he'd have issues. Well, he ignored them and built it as cheap as possible anyways then sold the house to me to deal with not disclosing the flooding issues when I asked prior to buying the house.
The bottom of the walls are constantly wet and if I don't do anything soon I might as well tear the garage down. That would be a shame because I could really use it as a shop if it didn't flood.
The whole yard next to it turns into a swimming pool and needs to be regraded as well. The driveway to attatched garage in front and to the side of the detatched is 30 inches higher than level of the current detatched garage slab and only 30ft or so away so the yard slopes down very sharply making it a sloppy muddy mess when I drive down to it with any vehicles or toys.
If I put the coarses of 10 inch block with a single coarse of 4 inch block on top then poured concrete on top of the 10 inch coarse I'd end up raising the garage about 28-30 inches or about level with slab coming along side of attatched garage and slope slightly to side.
I have about 10k to get this done but hoping to keep under that if possible. Maybe even look into holding previous owner liable for some of it. He only lived there 2 years and I wish I had seen the house for sale $30k less than I payed before garage was built half assed. I'd be so much further ahead but it's too late now and needs to be fixed.
Any input is helpful.

Thanks,
Ryan
In Wisconsin



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[Sparkynutz]

I'm looking to jack up a 26x26 detatched garage and place 3, possibly 4 coarses of concrete block under the walls with rebar into old slab and horizontal reinforcement. Next ill set garage back down on the blocks and fill inside and out to proper height then pour a new slab inside the garage. Anyone else do this or have any input on fill material or thoughts?


Here's the back story why I'm doing this-
I bought a newer house this summer and the previous owner built a detatched garage in the lowest area of the yard behind the house 2 years ago. After moving in I've had the garage floor flood almost every hard rain we get. The grading all the way around it slopes toward the garage and water runs right in under the garage door. The neighbors warned the previous owner that he should build it up higher or he'd have issues. Well, he ignored them and built it as cheap as possible anyways then sold the house to me to deal with not disclosing the flooding issues when I asked prior to buying the house.
The bottom of the walls are constantly wet and if I don't do anything soon I might as well tear the garage down. That would be a shame because I could really use it as a shop if it didn't flood.
The whole yard next to it turns into a swimming pool and needs to be regraded as well. The driveway to attatched garage in front and to the side of the detatched is 30 inches higher than level of the current detatched garage slab and only 30ft or so away so the yard slopes down very sharply making it a sloppy muddy mess when I drive down to it with any vehicles or toys.
If I put the coarses of 10 inch block with a single coarse of 4 inch block on top then poured concrete on top of the 10 inch coarse I'd end up raising the garage about 28-30 inches or about level with slab coming along side of attatched garage and slope slightly to side.
I have about 10k to get this done but hoping to keep under that if possible. Maybe even look into holding previous owner liable for some of it. He only lived there 2 years and I wish I had seen the house for sale $30k less than I payed before garage was built half assed. I'd be so much further ahead but it's too late now and needs to be fixed.
Any input is helpful.

Thanks,
Ryan
In Wisconsin



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Here's a pic from front

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[GYPSY400]

I'm guessing you don't have permits and building inspectors in your area? If you do, I'd hunt down the inspector that signed off on that permit.

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[Sparkynutz]

I'm guessing you don't have permits and building inspectors in your area? If you do, I'd hunt down the inspector that signed off on that permit.

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Yes. I'm waiting for her to get copies of everything she has from when it was built. She said everything was to code but I'm not so sure. I asked builder/previous owner why he didn't build it higher he gave me some bs story how it couldn't be higher than the sidewalk. When I asked building inspector she said he could have used as much fill as he wanted as long as it wasn't 15ft above finished grade. So 2ft I want to raise shouldn't be an issue.

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[Sparkynutz]

A couple days ago I measured difference in slab height to sidewalk height. Looks are deceiving but I don't think finish height was even figured out when it was built. It was 10 inches lower than the sidewalk with the garage being the very lowest point.

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[GYPSY400]

The other option is see is to knockdown the driveway where the black trailer is.. slope the driveway towards the street and build a retaining wall along the side of the house so you don't loose the backfill.

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[Sparkynutz]

I thought that too, but the garage is still downhill 10 inches from sidewalk so there's not any good way to slope anything away from the garage without a pond further in front towards the sidewalk

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[matt_i]

Imo even if you raise the concrete up its still built in a swamp...if you bring in fill where is the next lowest point...the street?

Is there any place you can send the stormwater like out into the street, or, another point in your yard where it can flow naturally away. If so can you dig an outdoor sump pit and place a pump inside to evac the water. The electric pump would surely be overloaded in a gulley washer storm but if you build capacity into the pit then the pump can take its time working it down.

 

[Sparkynutz]

Yes, the street will be next lowest point in front of house. Behind the house to the right of detatched garage I plan on doing a french drain swale combination towards a low spot way out in the yard where my house sump pump currently pumps to. That spot is approximately 2ft lower than the garage slab and has a drain running into the storm sewer on other side of the house. Currently the low spot is the back yard and the garage. The grade goes up a foot around where the house ends then down 3 feet further to the right at the low spot with the drain to sewer. I will need to add dirt around the house as well but that shouldn't be a problem with almost 4 ft of exposed cement basement in back of house. I'll just need some small window wells installed. I might be able to aleviate all the back yard water with the French drain but afraid that still won't help my water and sloping towards garage problem in the front or crappy downhill access to it.
The French drain will require over 250ft of drain and won't be sloped downhill much if I don't raise the garage and back yard low spot higher than the high spot on side of house that currently is keeping the water trapped back there. There just wouldn't be much pitch to get good flow if I removed the high spot only.

I thought of adding a sump to garage too but that adds to yearly cost and possible failure especially in winter when it will freeze and thaw and puddle near garage.

I'm wondering if I should connect a drain inside the garage between the upper and lower slab into the French drain just in case water seeps in yet somehow.
I'm trying to decide on fill too. Would it be better to put 2" pink foam board on top of current slab before covering with the remaining 2ft of gravel or sand fill? What would support a new slab the safest way?
There isn't a single crack in the current slab. Such a shame it will be wasted poured so low.
Also. Should I float the upper slab surround it with expansion joint or tie it in with rebar to the block mini walls? What do I do for front of garage where the current cement slopes down slightly in front of garage door? The block probably won't sit or support a new slab above it decent. Do I dig in front of garage and pour a new exterior footing for upper slab and just let cement stick out past front of garage? I'm not sure what to do there. It sure would be nice to have cement go all the way back to garage tho instead of dip way down.

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[Sparkynutz]

The L is the low spot. Hard to tell but it's very low compared to rest of yard and has a 6 inch pipe running from a grated pit into storm sewer on corner

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[matt_i]

It wouldn't take a lot of dip to get your flow. For example if you want 1/8" per foot and its 250', then (.125 x 250) ~ 32" of drop. You already have 24", can the low spot be dug out 1-2 feet deeper?

I wouldn't attempt to French drain it, just a dry streambed that's pitched with a laser level, I'd rent a mini excavator for the day plus buy or rent a laser level. Get it seeded and call it a good weekend of work. I think a drybed will work better for dealing with snow and shoulder-season freeze and thaw. Make it so its easy to mow and not scalp on any "sharp edges".

As far as the goofy access, I think your only logical choice is to retaining-wall the existing sloped concrete ramp and then build your own road next to it.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Go big or go home. I'd raise the detached garage floor to be the same level as the attached garage. Connect it to the side driveway. Bring in lots of fill and regrade. That's the only solution that will fix everything. Likely cost more than your current budget, but worth getting professional quotes.

 

[bczygan]

Go big or go home. I'd raise the detached garage floor to be the same level as the attached garage. Connect it to the side driveway. Bring in lots of fill and regrade. That's the only solution that will fix everything. Likely cost more than your current budget, but worth getting professional quotes.

This.

Raise the existing garage 4' on cribbing.

Leave existing slab in place.

Install compacted fill to level of existing driveway. Slope away from garage location.

Install new slab with thickened edge.

Lower garage.

Bill

 

[Gittgo]

What you need is three 26" long forms made up at the highest amount allowed and about 4" wider than the existing walls.Screw them togeteher with few screws so you csn ****** a side to make wiring the rebar easire. Once done screw it good ;-)Then build the shorties for the sides of the door.Get them built and in place leaning against the walls. Get a house and building mover to come out and talk about a "temporary lifting" giving you several days to drill the original slab-footer for rebar and wire up the grid to these uprights every foot or so apart( #5 bar). Slip the forms over.Get a concrete pump guy to come and pump and vibrate these formed walls and, after a few days, get the house movers to set the garage back down on your walls. anchor it to the walls with Redhead sleeve anchors.Deal with the garage door and driveway at your leisure afterwards.The only good out of this is a nice tall ceiling and a stick house up on walls off the dirt where it should have been in the first damn place.
Heres something on about a 36" or so wall.

 

[My Old Tools]

Failure to disclose an issue like flooding on a sale is actionable down here. Have you talked to a real estate attorney? You might get your expenses covered by the seller.

 

[Sparkynutz]

I can't dig the low spot any deeper or water won't run out and to the storm sewer which is barely down hill of that.
If I install french drain to the low spot I'll have ability for larger flow and only just barely cover the thing with enough dirt to get grass to grow on top. I'm hoping to make it not as obvious it's there.
I could save money on fill by only raising garage 2 blocks to get proper slope and retaining with new lower driveway next to old but that will waste even more good cement and be a possible trip and fall hazard off end of main driveway. It would also make it a pain to move anything heavy on wheels between the two garages. There is a man door on side of house garage behind the black trailer that I'd have to make steps for then. It's nice now walking straight out onto the slab and to other garage.
I have a house mover coming next week to give me a quote on raising. I'm sure they'll have experience and good ideas.
I'm thinking cement block will be cheaper than poured walls. A friend of mine has a small mixer we'll use to fill the blocks with after they are set.
I'm tempted to raise even further and put in an 8ft tall door in at same time but have a feeling that I'll already be over budget and add more work that isn't necessary when I don't really need the height and just a dry useable garage.
The inspector said she'd get back to me yesterday and didnt. We'll see what I find out when she does.

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[Milton Shaw]

That's a lot of work and you are not used to doing that type work. I would call a house mover and get quotes to fix the problem turn key. It would probably be done in a week and ready to use before you could even get started. They could get it at the right height and make sure the water would never be a problem again. It might not cost more than you are planning on, call around and get some quotes from several movers and look at some of their work at other houses.

 

[ard]

Lawyer up

Lawsuit time.

1. Confirm there is a problem
2. Confirm seller failed to disclose
3. Get a CE /liscense do contractor to define a solution and cost
4. Make a claim agaisnt prior owner, selling realtor.

IMO it does not matter what the inspector says.

 

[ScottsGT]

Lawyer up

Lawsuit time.

1. Confirm there is a problem
2. Confirm seller failed to disclose
3. Get a CE /liscense do contractor to define a solution and cost
4. Make a claim agaisnt prior owner, selling realtor.

IMO it does not matter what the inspector says.

X2

 

[cdestuck]

I agree with ard. He failed to disclose a known problem. Big no no, go after him.

 

[Platonic Solid]

Sparkynutz - Did you get a pre-purchase inspection and a sellers disclosure document?

Though there's no directly applicable statement covered in the reqired Wisconsin disclosure document (linked to PDF) except item C. 27. "I am aware of other defects affecting the property."

 

[nh_yota]

In my experience, towns only care about setbacks or square footage and not elevation above flood level or internal storm water management, unless it's a town that experiences a lot of flooding and has special amendments. Now they may care about runoff if it involves neighboring properties but they don't care if you want to flood your own house. Requirements for a livable space vs. an outbuilding may also be different.

Not only does that garage have flooding problems it also looks stupid. The land should be raised to match the level of the house, or at least high enough so that it's not the lowest point on the properly. If the driveway slopes down to the garage entrance you can install a drain trough across the front but you would need a lower point on the property for the water to go.

 

[imok]

Where I live a failure to disclose will result in a lawsuit. I am selling my house and I was very careful filling out the disclosure statement.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I won't get into the legal aspects, but I agree with looking for a house or garage mover to do the work - it should be straightforward for them to lift the garage up so that a raised foundation can be added.

When I built my garage, a garage moving company came in and took away the original one car garage that it replaced. I was impressed by how easy it was for them to jack the old one up - they bolted 2x12s to each side wall, ran some cross beams underneath them, unbolted the sills from the floor, and with a few jacks lifted it right up with no problems. With the right equipment, materials and experience it's not a difficult job.

 

[rayra]

Failure to disclose an issue like flooding on a sale is actionable down here. Have you talked to a real estate attorney? You might get your expenses covered by the seller.

This. Sue to cover costs of remediation. The guy built it, found out it flooded and sold the house to get away from it, rather than fix it. Failure to disclose is actionable in CA and probably your state too.

In the meantime, the raise and level will work - BUT, where YOUR water shedding goes can also become an issue for YOU. I would be sure that water isn't directed onto your neighbor's property or you'll be the one facing suit. Either shape to drain away from them and to the road, or make sure your grade around the garage matches your neighbor's grade.

 

[Sparkynutz]

The neighbor already has water issues on other side of their house with a huge driveway that settled and pitches right towards their house. Their basement sump pump pumps onto the lawn and drains back towards my garage making the issue even worse.
They are amazing neighbors. When I told them I had issues they put an extension on their sump hose and have it all the way across their front yard so it won't drain back to me. I still have issues but it probably helped some atleast.
If I raise the garage to just under the grade at their house and put a swale along lot line towards road it should help both of us and allow them to pump their sump into the swale and out to road instead of a soggy wet mess they have on their front lawn now.
I will look into holding previous owner liable but if I lose I will be paying his court costs as well as mine and still have to fix the problem. I had lots of issues closing with the terrible seller and would rather not deal with them again if I can avoid it.
I just want a useable garage and move on. All the neighbors comment how dumb it looks and are happy I moved in because I made my old house look amazing and they know I'll do the same eventually with this one too.

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[ard]

What makes you say you will pay his court costs too if you loose?!?

While it can be good to have a healthy fear over 'taking it to court', it is ignorant to stop before you start, so to speak.

Contact an attorney, see what THEY say. (Dont rely ONLY on your own prejudices... Those preconceived ideas may steer you wrong.) You may be able to file against the other realtor as well, depending on the state laws, disclosures, time of year and what the neighbors can say about the property when the realtors were there. It isnt always simple.

When you bring up a claim like this- if the prior owners were saints or dicks- DO NOT expect it to be happy sledding. How they were at closing doesnt matter.

You need a real contractor/ civil engineer to solve this one.

1. Create a sub surface draininage plan using large drains; ABS, concrete, whatever.

2. Jack up garage

3. Pour new foundation and new floor

4. Lower & Attach

5. Regrade to tie into #1

Oh, you can do all that and STILL press forward with a legal case. And maybe even do it on contingency. Talk to a lawyer.

 

[jives]

The neighbor already has water issues on other side of their house with a huge driveway that settled and pitches right towards their house. Their basement sump pump pumps onto the lawn and drains back towards my garage making the issue even worse.
They are amazing neighbors. When I told them I had issues they put an extension on their sump hose and have it all the way across their front yard so it won't drain back to me. I still have issues but it probably helped some atleast.
If I raise the garage to just under the grade at their house and put a swale along lot line towards road it should help both of us and allow them to pump their sump into the swale and out to road instead of a soggy wet mess they have on their front lawn now.
I will look into holding previous owner liable but if I lose I will be paying his court costs as well as mine and still have to fix the problem. I had lots of issues closing with the terrible seller and would rather not deal with them again if I can avoid it.
I just want a useable garage and move on. All the neighbors comment how dumb it looks and are happy I moved in because I made my old house look amazing and they know I'll do the same eventually with this one too.

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They may be amazing neighbors, but if you build up it could cause extensive flooding in their yard. Unless you know EXACTLY where the water is going to go, I would not dare raise and fill.

 

[Sparkynutz]

They may be amazing neighbors, but if you build up it could cause extensive flooding in their yard. Unless you know EXACTLY where the water is going to go, I would not dare raise and fill.

Water runs down hill. Their house will still be uphill. The neighbor also liked my idea of fixing this and regrading slope towards the road the way it should have been in the first place.

I will look into all options best I can before proceding. Always have, always will. This forum being just one of the few tools.
Thankyou everyone for the feedback. Way more than I expected.

I seen a thread about installing a recessed scissor lift for cars. I might have to work that into the install too. Sure would be handy and shouldn't be too hard to do at time of install.

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[ScottsGT]

If you raise the garage, raise it enough to install a two post lift!

 

[theoldwizard1]

Once you are below grade, there is only one solution; French drain to some place that is lower. Been there, done that.

You are so low, I don't know if you can get it to drain to the street which means you need a dry well and possibly a sump pump.

 

[rayra]

Water runs down hill. Their house will still be uphill. The neighbor also liked my idea of fixing this and regrading slope towards the road the way it should have been in the first place.

I will look into all options best I can before proceding. Always have, always will. This forum being just one of the few tools.
Thankyou everyone for the feedback. Way more than I expected.

I seen a thread about installing a recessed scissor lift for cars. I might have to work that into the install too. Sure would be handy and shouldn't be too hard to do at time of install.

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That's a fine idea. Especially with retaining the original slab, so the recess doesn't become a sump for your drainage trouble.

 

[Sparkynutz]

I have been thinking of installing foam underneath the new pad to keep it warmer in winter when I eventually insulate and heat it.
Everything I'm reading says make sure the base under foam is completely compacted and level to avoid issues.
We'll nothing would be more level or flat than putting the foam right on top of the old cement.
I'd have to run the numbers but would I be better off just filling the whole garage with no fill and only insulation then pour a 5 or 6 inch pad on top to get my height.
Maybe settle for a slightly lower raise of 3 blocks.10 inch blocks 8" x2 tall, topped with a 4 inch wide wall supprt block with 2 inches of foam on top of the 10 inch blocks for a total of 18 inches of foam then pour 6 inches of concrete on top for a total rise of 24 inches. That would give me a 14 inch slope towards road and just be slightly down hill from current driveway to garage. As long as new concrete to garage is pitched to side it should still go towards the road.

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[Sparkynutz]

To make math easier if the foam was 24ftx24ft and used 4x8 sheets each layer would take 3 sheets long x 6 sheets wide or 18 sheets. If I use 2 inch sheets I'll need 162 sheets. If I used white expanded foam at $10 a sheet that would come to $1620 or about double what dirt fill would cost to truck in and compact. If I used pink board at $26 a sheet it would be expensive as ****.
Any thoughts?

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[bczygan]

Some places do NOT allow you to allow water to drain onto any other property, including the road!

Check it out first.

Bill

 

[ard]

I have been thinking of installing foam underneath the new pad to keep it warmer in winter when I eventually insulate and heat it.

Well, plus it will float!

 

[Sparkynutz]

Some places do NOT allow you to allow water to drain onto any other property, including the road!

Check it out first.

Bill

Guy from dept of public works told me hooking up to storm sewer would be best but a swale towards road would be fine and probably work too. I'm still waiting to hear back from building inspector what permits I will need if any for the project.

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[ez-duzit]

...I will look into holding previous owner liable but if I lose...

Sounds like you've already lost and would rather poor-boy a Mickey Mouse repair. Rethink this and get it fixed properly.

 

[Sparkynutz]

Sounds like you've already lost and would rather poor-boy a Mickey Mouse repair. Rethink this and get it fixed properly.

Very good assumption on your part. I bet you would do things better but didn't share what that would be. Hmmmm.
Thankfully most of the other responses were very helpful!
Thanks everyone!

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[06 DIESEL]

When I get hard rains I get water into my garage also coming under the door. Is their anyway to put a trench drain in front of the garage and pipe it out to the storm out back you talked about? I am going to raise my slab 6" and still put a large trench drain in front of the garage to catch the water before it gets into the garage.

This is an example.