Mr. Cool NON DIY /VS / Pioneer mini splits

[Black Oak]

I have noticed that the normal (not pre-charged) Mr. Cool mini's are higher seer units than the DIY models. Similar warranty as Pioneer and some of the others out there ( 7 yrs. comp. / 5 yrs. parts ).I like the 22 seer of these units as opposed to 16 seer for the DIY models. Does anybody have a standard Mr. Cool unit? In researching the Pioneer , they seem to be well liked . I also have great licensed installers, which is a huge plus. I am looking at a 12K , and a 24K, the shop is odd shaped. I'd love to hear what you think of units at this price (12K /$1000 and 24K/ $1500).A Gree is not much more money, and any suggestions are welcomed .Thanks everybody.

 

[soob]

I don't have any experience with Mr. Cool or some of the other mini split brands, but I put a pioneer in recently, DIY, and I am happy with it. The build quality seems good and it works well enough. Price is really good, especially if you order direct through their website. I'm sure it's just a generic unit, though. The instructions are identical to many other off brands out there, and the "pioneer" badging is just cheap stickers.

The "diy" kits with the sealed lines cost about the same as regular units + all the tools you need to install one. So why bother with them?

ETA: also, I think most of the really high seer units are a false economy. Figure out the yearly savings and the expected life of the unit (+risk of DIY install + time you'll be at that address) and you'll probably find that an ultimate payback is unlikely.

 

[PoorOwner]

I agree. The seer is splitting hair differences. As long as it's not something like 9

I like to just check the eer which is BTU per watts, then see how much my utility rates per Kilo watt is

You may notice the watts between two different unit may be 100w or less

 

[Fixin'Stuff]

I've noticed that some of the non-DIY Mr. Cool units have a higher SEER, plus they cost less than the DIY models. They also have a choice of lineset length, while the DIY only comes with a 25 foot lineset, which is way too long for many installations. Their Oasis series has a higher SEER, more features, the same warranty and lower cost than the DIY series. I'm seriously considering buying the Oasis and spending some of the difference to have a licensed person double-check my install, nitrogen test for leaks, then pump it down and let the refrigerant flow.

 

[Black Oak]

Sounds like I put too much importance on the SEER rating. The other selling point is the length of line-set options. I would only need 15ft., not 26 ft. I 'm just trying to find the "build quality" we all hope for , so thanks for the replies.

 

[yeldogt]

The appeal of the DIY -- is the DIY. It's not clear from the website -- but it looks like the units are retrofitted and not supplied that way from the manufacturer. They have to be more money.

They all come form China.

Many window units are in the 8-9 -- the 16's get you 1/2 the running costs. Bumping up to the 20 is much less of a savings for most people with limited season. In a hot climate where AC is used most of the year -- the newest 30seer units can really save money when you start talking 2-3 ton units.

 

[Black Oak]

In Arkansas, its very hot. My cooling season is mid-April thru early Oct. , with high humidity.That is why I focused on the SEER ratings.

 

[soob]

Mini splits are really simple to install. Paying a licensed person to double check the install seems silly to me. Usually there's just a total of four flare connections. Just be really careful bending the pipes as it's not as easy as bending smaller gauge copper.

All you need is a vacuum pump and a hose to install it. I mean, it'd help to have a gauge set, but it's not necessary. You just pull a vacuum, then release the refrigerant. As long as you're in the line set range for pre charge (it's IIRC 12-25' for the pioneer) you're set.

If it leaks at the flare connections, you should be able to tell pretty easily. If you're worried get a $25 leak detector. In the unlikely event that it does leak and tightening the connection doesn't fix it, then you can call the pro out and you're probably looking at about the same charge since most of them charge a huge premium for "installs" vs repair work.

 

[soob]

Play with a seer savings calculator:

https://kobiecomplete.com/cool-tips/seer-savings-calculator/

 

[Black Oak]

Thanks soob. I will try that. The more info, the better.

 

[soob]

Pioneer has their installation and troubleshooting manuals online. I'd recommend reading through them before you decide what to do.

Like I said, it's straightforward enough if you're handy. If you've worked on car a/c before it's basically the same thing.

 

[Black Oak]

I thought owner installs would void the warranty. I've got a vacuum pump and have done a couple car AC, but didn't want to risk voiding the warranty.I realize these mini's are almost "disposable". Main thing for me , was some protection.

 

[soob]

I understand what you're saying, but worrying about the warranty is silly. It's 2 years for parts and 5 years for the compressor. And it doesn't pay for labor, which will usually exceed the cost of the parts. So what are you really getting? Very little.

The units really are cheap enough compared to professional labor that they really ought to be seen as disposable. That's tough to accept, but if you hire a pro and go with a name brand you'll pay 3-4x as much, at the bare minimum. Think that's 3-4x as reliable or will last 3-4 times as long? No way.

 

[PoorOwner]

Mini splits are really simple to install. Paying a licensed person to double check the install seems silly to me. Usually there's just a total of four flare connections. Just be really careful bending the pipes as it's not as easy as bending smaller gauge copper.

All you need is a vacuum pump and a hose to install it. I mean, it'd help to have a gauge set, but it's not necessary. You just pull a vacuum, then release the refrigerant. As long as you're in the line set range for pre charge (it's IIRC 12-25' for the pioneer) you're set.

If it leaks at the flare connections, you should be able to tell pretty easily. If you're worried get a $25 leak detector. In the unlikely event that it does leak and tightening the connection doesn't fix it, then you can call the pro out and you're probably looking at about the same charge since most of them charge a huge premium for "installs" vs repair work.

Did you use nitrogen to test the system too?
The problem comes if you for whatever reason have lost enough refrigerant, you need a license to purchase and use. But then you wouldn't know how much you have leaked because you have to reclaim and weight it..

 

[Black Oak]

Thanks again , soob. Makes sense.

 

[Fueler]

I've noticed that some of the non-DIY Mr. Cool units have a higher SEER, plus they cost less than the DIY models. They also have a choice of lineset length, while the DIY only comes with a 25 foot lineset, which is way too long for many installations. Their Oasis series has a higher SEER, more features, the same warranty and lower cost than the DIY series. I'm seriously considering buying the Oasis and spending some of the difference to have a licensed person double-check my install, nitrogen test for leaks, then pump it down and let the refrigerant flow.

Here is the thing I never got an answer to.
IF they use the non diy unit, add some hoses, charge accordingly add in some extra parts, what the heck are they doing to lower the Seer?

 

[soob]

Did you use nitrogen to test the system too?
The problem comes if you for whatever reason have lost enough refrigerant, you need a license to purchase and use. But then you wouldn't know how much you have leaked because you have to reclaim and weight it..

If you hook it up, turn it on, and walk over to the flare fitting and check it, and it's leaking a little, and you tighten it and it stops... you would evacuate all the refrigerant, weigh it, then put it back in? No real person would do that.

The units have enough refrigerant for a 25' line. The specs for the 12k unit say something like .2 oz per foot of lineset. So you have approximately 2oz of extra refrigerant (at least) if you're just using a 15' lineset. 2oz ain't leaking out of a reasonable attempt at a flare fitting in 20 minutes.

 

[soob]

Thanks again , soob. Makes sense.

It's my pleasure. One other thing -- if you order the units through the Highseer.com website, there's a coupon code for 10% off on the front page. Price is definitely better than through Amazon.

 

[smokey0810]

Got my Pioneer unit drop shipped to my house for $600 a few years back. Installed it myself, had HVAC guy pull a vacuum on for $50. Love the daylights out of it.

 

[jacob_coulter]

Did you use nitrogen to test the system too?
The problem comes if you for whatever reason have lost enough refrigerant, you need a license to purchase and use. But then you wouldn't know how much you have leaked because you have to reclaim and weight it..

You shouldn't need an EPA license to purchase r-410 which is what most of them run on.

It's a gray area after that as far as "handling" it, but a homeowner can easily get a hold of it

 

[Fixin'Stuff]

Got my Pioneer unit drop shipped to my house for $600 a few years back. Installed it myself, had HVAC guy pull a vacuum on for $50. Love the daylights out of it.

What kind of warranty does Pioneer offer? I've looked at them on highseer.com and can't find the word "warranty" listed in any of their documentation. ???

 

[oilslick]

I understand what you're saying, but worrying about the warranty is silly. It's 2 years for parts and 5 years for the compressor. And it doesn't pay for labor, which will usually exceed the cost of the parts. So what are you really getting? Very little.

The units really are cheap enough compared to professional labor that they really ought to be seen as disposable. That's tough to accept, but if you hire a pro and go with a name brand you'll pay 3-4x as much, at the bare minimum. Think that's 3-4x as reliable or will last 3-4 times as long? No way.

Great points made here. I'll have to remember all of this. Thanks.

 

[soob]

Warranty

 

[Fixin'Stuff]

Thanks soob! Perhaps that explains a bit of the price difference from the Mr. Cool stuff. They offer 5 years on parts and 7 years on the compressor. Alas, the point may be moot if they don't honor the warranty.

 

[bzinsky]

Mini splits are really simple to install. Paying a licensed person to double check the install seems silly to me. Usually there's just a total of four flare connections. Just be really careful bending the pipes as it's not as easy as bending smaller gauge copper.

All you need is a vacuum pump and a hose to install it. I mean, it'd help to have a gauge set, but it's not necessary. You just pull a vacuum, then release the refrigerant. As long as you're in the line set range for pre charge (it's IIRC 12-25' for the pioneer) you're set.

If it leaks at the flare connections, you should be able to tell pretty easily. If you're worried get a $25 leak detector. In the unlikely event that it does leak and tightening the connection doesn't fix it, then you can call the pro out and you're probably looking at about the same charge since most of them charge a huge premium for "installs" vs repair work.

It's really not that simple if you have no hvac experience. It's simple if you already know what you're doing, like most things actually. It's a lot of work researching how to pull a vacuum, what vacuum to pull, how to flare the lines, the mounting everything, the drains, what type of wiring, disconnect, breaker, etc etc etc.

 

[ROBZ71LM7]

Bump to an old thread, but the most relevant topic. Debating a MrCool DIY but they run about $1600-1800 for a 24K unit and Pioneer is about $1200. The Pioneer even claims you can use their Kwik-E-Vac canister and you don't need a vacuum pump. (It comes factory flared)

Thoughts? I have a vacuum pump and set of gauge somewhere but haven't used them. I already have a 30A A/C disconnect mounted and wired. I'd consider an HVAC company for final checkout, but I've found the HVAC trade hates mini-splits, let alone servicing a homeowner's install.

 

[vavet]

I installed a Mr Cool Olympus (non-DIY) 18k unit in my 24x32x12 detached garage about 18 months ago. I paid about $800 from Home Depot for it.
A friend/coworker has a HVAC hobby/habit, so he agreed to help me with it. The SEER ratings are higher than the DIY unit, but the warranty is lower. The ability to shorten the lineset really sealed the deal for me. It means the installation just looks a lot better.
The shorter warranty is a balance with the lower price in my mind. If I pay less, then I'm self-warrantying, in a way. The price difference was enough that I figured I could replace a few parts if it fails on me. It's been bulletproof so far *knock on wood*, but I don't run it full time. I run it on weekends or if I'm going to be home and able to work there more. I also don't try to keep it what my wife would find to be acceptable temps. I keep the t-stat set to 62 (the lowest setting other than freeze protection) in the winter and 80 in the summer. I just recently learned about the freeze protection mode, so I've been using that to keep it from getting crazy cold out there during the week, but it's pretty well insulated, so I don't think it's been running much. With some low temps in 20s and daytime highs in the 40s, I ran it for about a week and it cost me about $1/day. Our kWh rate is about $0.125/ kWh.