Old Deck Rehash

[PoorOwner]

We had a deck that's in despair and painted over. everyone does this to sell the house. but popped off some boards and none of the contractor bids is willing to replace the foundation since they are mostly fine. Just a couple rotted due to standing water.
I suspect if you pop off a couple boards you can tell better what is needed.
Replaced old redwood with new redwood now stained and installed with the deck screws with the torx head. redwood 2x6 is expensive now but I do not want PT as a deck and prefer stained redwood, never paint it !

 

[lakeroadster]

You want quick and easy?

Leave everything there and slap a layer of composite or Ipe right over top of what you have, but running perpendicular to the existing deck boards. And kill the railing.

Easy peasy, and good enough for a long while.

Bill

I wanted to do this very thing for two small decks at our mountain home.

Every composite deck board manufacturer I checked recommends against it, and it voids the warranty. Has something to do with the differential thermal expansion between wood and the plastic composite material. The folks that have done this experience sheared composite board screws and warping.

So in our case I ripped out everything and started new.

 

[D45]

Here is my concern with the size of the 2x6 boards and the bottom of the siding

Also pictured is the siding box cut out for the railing into the siding/wall

 

[D45]

I am basically just going to do a remove and place

Very straightforward and simple

All the top 2x6s, all the 4x4s.......everything

Keep It Simple.......and cheap

 

[lakeroadster]

Composite materials are far superior.. no maintenance, no splinters, and increased home re-sale value.

Your concerns can be addressed with additional trim pieces.

 

[fourjeepin]

I would go with pavers and no railing

 

[D45]

Well it appears as if the deck was all built with screws......which should make for easy removal, right?

Nope........most of the screw heads are caked with layers of paint, are filled with rust, or are easily stripped when trying to back them out

So my plan is to use a circular saw and cut 'access panels' between the joists, and then use a sawzall to cut off the screws

 

[Jess]

One option to deal with any gap at the bottom of the siding is to use flashing slipped up under the siding and shaped to fill the space. Any sheet metal shop can bang these pieces out to your specification. On one of my decks, we used peel and stick covered by flashing to go under the hardy siding and over the ledger on the building. Many other solutions including just filling up the hole, compacting well and using pavers of your choice.

 

[D45]

One option to deal with any gap at the bottom of the siding is to use flashing slipped up under the siding and shaped to fill the space. Any sheet metal shop can bang these pieces out to your specification. On one of my decks, we used peel and stick covered by flashing to go under the hardy siding and over the ledger on the building.

Well I have electric running under the deck, which could be re-routed but would still be more work

At this time, I am going to just keep it simple and cheap and use replacement pressure treated wood

As nice as composite wood would be, it would cost more and would entail more work, fixing misc things that come with using composite

I think a nice stain/sealer on the wood will make the wood last for many years and be mostly worry free

Most stain/sealers have a 3 year warranty on decks, so even if I have to do it even 2-3 years......a gallon is only $25 and the deck is only a 12x20

 

[lakeroadster]

Well it appears as if the deck was all built with screws......which should make for easy removal, right?

Nope........most of the screw heads are caked with layers of paint, are filled with rust, or are easily stripped when trying to back them out

We had that issue with the decks we just demolished and replaced. I took an old screwdriver and cut off the handle. Then took the screwdriver shaft and clamped it into a pair of Vice Grips. Set the screwdriver on the painted screw head and hit it with a hand sledge lightly. You'll then be able to see the orientation of the screw head. Reorient the screwdriver to match the screw head, and it hit the screwdriver hard with the hand sledge.

I had maybe 5 screws that wouldn't come out with my drill / driver after using the above procedure.

Ya gotta get the screws out.... or else its a ***** to get them apart with a prybar.

 

[Deucefanny]

What are the lights that you have on the deck stairs? The ones I have on my blind you as you walk up them which isn't handy.
Thanks DF

 

[Deucefanny]

Paver stones..or some other engineered stone over a compacted base would be the way to do this. It's low, so no reason for a railing.

I built a low deck using composite (Moistureshield, solid product) last year. Keeping a low deck frame dry and well ventilated to reduce rot (even with pressure treated wood) is a challenge. Looking back, stone would have likely been less effort, less expensive, and much more permanent!

area:

The build goes on for a few pages here and should help with your decision: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=263351&page=29

Sorry these were the lights i was referring to.

 

[D45]

Well in about an hour, I removed the railing and the two support boards that were nailed into the walls (see the pics where the siding was trimmed to go around it)

Half of the screws were rusted out and were as thin as a pin, other screws came right out.........

Most of the wood was pretty dried out and brittle

I am going to take the patio furniture inside the enclosed patio for the winter, and start removing the 2x6 deck boards

I know the house had red wood siding at one point, so it looks like they just sided right over it

 

[D45]

I assume that the seven 4x4 posts are anchored in concrete and are the support structure for the deck.......only assuming at this point

I would like to replace them.......hmmmmm, maybe remove every other one and replace them and them alternator to the remaining once?

Or, think I should just remove the top deck boards and cut the posts off flush and eliminate the rails?

The rails do house bees and wasps........and its less than a foot off the ground. Would be much cheaper and much faster to not replace the rail system, BUT then I would need to get some siding work done also

 

[Squashfest81]

I like your plan of replacing posts one at a time.
I've never been a fan of railings on low decks, so I'd eliminate them. Plus, they just block the view. For the siding, replacing with new will be the best look. If budget is a concern you could cut the vinyl out on the corner piece and just fill it in with a rectangle of pvc. Another option is to replace with just like a foot of railings were they meet the house.
Keep at it.

 

[D45]

Thanks

Over the next week I hope to get all the 2x6 deck boards removed, which will let me inspect the sub-structure

I hope to find a tag on one of the wood ends, to figure out the age of the deck

 

[D45]

Anyone know of a general code that would require me to keep the hand rail system?

 

[PoorOwner]

Anyone know of a general code that would require me to keep the hand rail system?

I believe it is 5 or 6 feet around here, but what it looks to me you have 6 INCHES I doubt you need the rail....

 

[manwithtools]

I believe national code is 30" if the local codes are not more stringent.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[D45]

Decision is made, inspect the 4x4 posts and if they are solid I will just cut them off flush and lay the deck boards right over..........no more rail!

Any idea on a cost to patch, replace, or repair the two areas of the siding?

 

[Trey T]

Looks like half-day of work to replace (not patch) the siding. $200 in labor and $100 in material is what I'm estimating.

 

[D45]

Thanks, I would gladly pay that to have it done.......time to call around for estimates I guess

 

[D45]

I was able to get up 75% of the boards today......some sections were not even secured to the understructure, just sitting ontop (screws must have rusted away

I was glad to find a few board tags under the deck, and one Old Style beer can

The tags appear to be dated 93 and 94, so I assume 1993 and 1994

I cut all the boards down to 6' lengths as I was removing them. Some were still pretty solid but most were very dry and the saw-zall ripped right through them

I think I have about 9 board-widths to go, but I had to stop because of the much needed rain

Oddly enough, the 4x4 rail posts are NOT anchored into ground and in concrete

I appears as if the deck is sitting on 4x4 posts and then its lag bolted in to the one wall for the garage

So this brings me back to decisions, since I can easily remove and replace the 4x4 rail posts with new PT posts. By doing this I will save time and money by not having to re-do the siding

Or, save money by not replacing the posts and put this money towards the siding?

Anyways, on to the pics...........

 

[D45]

The understructure appears to be very solid, nothing falling apart or obviously dry rotted

They did not use ANY hangars for any boards, just nailed them all in from the opposite sides......I wonder if I should add some, for how cheap they are?

 

[D45]

 

[D45]

Looks like there are 16 PT 2x6 boards..............they are $10 each

I might consider "sistering" new boards to the old boards, to make sure the new top boards have a solid surface to screw down into

While most of the old boards appear to be solid and usable, my concern is that a lot of the screws just broke off in the old boards, which might be a huge PITA when attempting to fasten down new boards

 

[D45]

Curious about this observation.............why is there a threaded rod with hardware on the 4x4s?

I wonder if the threaded rod is sunk into concrete and holding the 4x4s in place? There are a few of these down the lengths of each 4x4

 

[D45]

Ok, well all the boards are finally removed......there was not any flashing under the siding, covering the joist (on the garage side)

The joist under the enclosed patio is set back under (like a foot)) so I am assuming flashing doesn't need to go under the siding on the patio side?

Looking at the grade of the river rock, it is obviously grade down towards the garage wall, that takes on water.

 

[lakeroadster]

So..... what's your plan?

 

[D45]

I am going to remove the 4x4 posts, since they are not anchored in concrete and remove the rail completely..........I think this will open up the back yard view a lot and get rid of having to deal with wasp/bee nests on the handrail for 4 months a year

I am actually going to sister 15 new 2x6s to the current 2x6s........I am just worried about screwing into the old joists were the majority of the old screws broke off into. Small added cost, but I bought some 2x6s "used" on Craigslist. I am just going to use a framing nail and secure them up good

I am also going to remove the dual duplex outlet box and install a ground level waterproof junction box. This electrical runs underground and supplies power to the pool.

I need to figure something with the ground, because it is sloping downwards towards the garage and I am getting water in the garage during heavy heavy rain storms

 

[D45]

Posts removed........next step is to remove the two vertical plastic conduit runs and the two outlets (keeping the wiring)

 

[D45]

I installed 15 new 2x6 joists today, just sistered them to the old ones

I burned through approximately 700 3" nails........love my Bostitch framing nailer

 

[D45]

Ok, so lets talk COMPOSITE DECKING

Menards, Lowes, and Home Depot........solid boards or the hollow?

Some composite boards warranty is 10 years, while some are 30 years

I would love to get a 20' long board and not have any seams

Yes, I know I will pay.........but ZERO maintenance and no splinters is tempting

Plus, hidden fasteners are trick

Most composite boards are 1" thick...........the siding was built around a 2x6, which is 1.5" tall. So I will just have a 1/2" gap, barely noticeable I think

I put a 1" thick board on the joists today next to a 2x6 ontop......both work and both look good, but I am leaning towards composite now. UGH!!

 

[PoorOwner]

My understanding is that they have alot of mildew and mold issues that the composite products still seem plagued with this problem and for the price they ask for is not acceptable.

I went with redwood. The composite gets super hot in the sun too. This is good for next 20 years I hope.

 

[D45]

Home Depot..........can't get a 20' long board

Lowes........can't get a 20' long board

Menards:
-Ultra Deck Fusion (Solid): 25 year warranty; $55.80
-Ultra Deck Rustic (Solid): 10 year warranty; $51.80
-Ultra Deck Natural (Hollow Core): 10 year warranty; $25.80

I do not believe any of these can use the hidden fasteners

 

[D45]

I found some round concrete columns under the ground level 4x4s, so this would explain the 1/2" thick threaded rod and hardware

There are also concrete columns under the enclosed patio........cool design

Anyways, I pulled back all the river rock to examine the plastic sheathing and the grading

It definitely needs to get filled in hear the garage wall footing.......I plan on cutting the plastic and buying topsoil and filling in the entire area, so it is as high as possible near the enclosed patio and sloping away

 

[D45]

After calling around all local places, I am going to go with the Ultra Deck Fusion from Menards

They offer the best warranty (25 years) and 20' lengths (no seams)

Fusion is also the only one with a UV resistant coating

The Fusion line is solid board with side grooves, for hidden fasteners

 

[6768rogues]

I did away with my wood and went to vinyl deck boards, Azek. The composite lumber is made with wood fibers and resins. Because of this the composite lumber will still fade. The vinyl does cost more but a great product.

I changed mine from red cedar to Azek. It was pricey but no maintenance other than an occasional pressure wash.
For the gap at the siding, you can do one of two things. You could get some treated wood and run it through a table saw, then use it to build up the joists so that you have no gap after the decking is installed.
Or you can rip a piece of decking and fill the gap with it.

 

[D45]

Good ideas, thanks

Once I get it installed, I will see if I even need (or noticed) the small 1/2" gap

 

[D45]

Azek does look nice, but is $20 more a board for a 20' length

Does your Azek composite board get hot in the summer?